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MIDEAST

The PR War in Gaza

Bush's visit--and Israeli crackdowns--have only strengthened the Islamists' image.

By Kevin Peraino | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jan 23, 2008 | Updated: 4:02  p.m. ET Jan 23, 2008

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  • Posted By: kitai @ 02/17/2008 9:37:22 PM

    Comment: Here goes some more "ooooo: crazy Bible babble" - Taken from "Mideast Strife - Will It Lead to Armageddon?" :"Just as in the case of the Crimean War, when Tsar Nicholas used a squabble over the holy places as a pretext to drive the Muslims from the Balkans, so will a modern power move into Palestine to IMPOSE PEACE upon the bitter, warring Arabs and Jews who cannot resolve their differences and live in peace. A great human religious leader will ensconce himself there, claiming to possess the very powers of God! He will be the "anti-Christ" of the Bible; the "false prophet" of prophecy, and he will be backed and protected by the armies of the BEAST!"
    http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/pubs/armagedd.htm

  • Posted By: ReeRee84 @ 02/14/2008 12:10:15 AM

    Comment: Well, if my proof is not valid, neither is yours. Everything you've posted is Big Fat Israeli propoganda, all of whom are caught up in self worth. You think God promises you land? Ha!! You're so deluded. I think God would rather promise land to the sheep and cattle, at least they're honest.

    At least there's two more people on there supporting Jafra. NOBODY is supporting you because you're off your rocker! Good luck with your views, you really, really need it. Mentalist.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/14/2008 09:18:40

      Comment: Well lets see I posted links, names, sources....and you did none of that. So once again according to you weirdos, everyone hates the Jews but everyone is helping them in their world wide conspiracy. All those Muslims I quoted, Iranian historians, youtube.com, the AP, Palestianian t.v. and news agencies, Hamas' website, the U.N., Egypts website, Jordans website.......Not to mention all the Iraqis turning against the loonies there, or the Pakastanies and Afgans turning against the loonies in their respective countries. The Turks point blank refusal to have an Islamic based government....should I go on???

      So that seems to be alot of people conspiring with the Jews.

      Understand this you brainwashed or wishful thinking loonies, you are the violent minority. People put up with your crap to try to make you happy. More and more people are starting to realize that that will never happen. So no matter how much they want to and try to avoid it eventually they will get so fed up with your crap that they will ok there governments to deal with you the only way people like you understand.

      And for the record loonie, Fox is owned and run by a Christian, and CNN was started by a Catholic, and is run buy a nonJewish black man and owned by a multinational company. Please at least look up your idiotic rantings before you spew them out.

      So much for your propaganda.

      And its easy to say Jafra is a liar because in the society "she" supposedly lives in you have to be a Muslim. I guess "she" forgot about that part. Lets hear it for religous oppresion! Yaaaaa. Fools.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/13/2008 12:58:43 AM

    Comment: Hey Gjhdad and Ree,
    if you want to get in touch outside this forum get in touch with me through my blog @ http://jafrajenin.blogspot.com/
    leave a comment with your email addresses in it. all comments require my approval and your email addresses won't be posted on my blog. when you send the comment, please repost some of it here minus your email addresses. i just want to make sure that it's you and not the dimwit. as soon as i get your email addresses, i'll get in touch with you.
    cheers,
    Jafra

    • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/14/2008 07:33:08

      Comment: Dear Jafra and Ree,
      I will be back to you soon.

      Lord, grant me just 10 minutes with one of those dirty, rotten, stinkin, sadistic, cowardly Israeli soldiers and I'll re-arrange his nose on the other side of his head and he'll be wearing his butt for a hat.

      • Posted By: Naver @ 02/14/2008 08:55:38

        Comment: Dont you mean you will send a child to blow up other inoccents.

        • Posted By: Naver @ 02/14/2008 09:28:10

          Comment: or possibly you meant you would trick mentally retarded women into being bombs....or hiding behind and in apartment complexes and houses to generate "civilian" casualties...or captureing U.N. peace keepers, who are there to make sure you and the Israelis are not doing what you acuse each other of, and using them as human shields?

          Talking tough on the internet is just plain stupid, and it shows just what a little weenie you are.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/13/2008 11:57:00

      Comment: Ah...I guess I did not realize before that I was up against a propaganda front for the misinformation of the feudals. Well I guess I would advertise for your blog to since no one else goes there. And your name is a combination of a female butcher, which you seem to have misspelled, and a town.

      Why would I want to post on your blog? No one else does and all you do is make unfounded acusations.

      And funny out off all the people that posted on here you are only inviting gjdad and Ree....what happened to all the other people agreeing with you??? Oh thats right there were none. Good luck with your self induced genocide.

  • Posted By: ReeRee84 @ 02/13/2008 12:34:57 AM

    Comment: Hahahaha Naver!!! You saw the Youtube vids, you're just too ashamed and full of self-worth to admit it. But it's ok because I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The Arabs and Muslims wouldn't want to be associated with such a narrow-minded, derogatory heathen..

    You haven't actually proven ANY of my points wrong with any facts, you just tried to wash over them with your drivel. Same for Gihad and Jafra's comments. I think you're the only one that sounds like a lunatic. And if we provide proof, you call us ;liars. Well you know what, you're the biggest liar of all of us. But you actually believe your sick and twisted lies because you're too dumb to realised you're brainwashed.

    Face it, Israel is a monster created by Zionists and they're slowly trying to kill Palestinians and wipe out the entire race, the only problem is they can't control it because the arabs breed like rabbits. Sorry to ruin your pathetic dream but Palestine does not "belong" to the Jews, Islam will NEVER be eradicated and the Arabs will continue to prosper, With travel becoming more accessible, more and more people can see what you're saying is absolute crud, they don't need you to try to convince them otherwise. I'd quit now before you resemble an absolute goon any more.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/13/2008 11:31:02

      Comment: Um what proof?? A report from 20 years ago from a doctor that does not exsist, youtube videos that you said were already takin down, a picture that was staged, or the rambalings of some weirdos personal opinions???

      Ok ya thats um proof I guess....well at least in someone private little world...

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/13/2008 11:23:26

      Comment: Religion of the Jahiliya - Jihadism is Kufr, not Islam
      A completely new religion seems to be catching the imagination of many people in Pakistan. Its followers don't, of course, consider it a new religion. Indeed this religion insists that it is Islam, in fact it calls itself true Islam or real Islam. But it can at best be described as Jihadism as its central belief system is based on a wilful misinterpretation of the Islamic concept of Jihad.
      By Sultan Shaheen

      The Pakistan Army is determined to change the very character of Islam, turning it into the pre-Islamic religion of the Jahiliya [Arabia in the Dark Ages]. The army had indeed given ample evidence of its anti-Islamic character by reminding us recently of the Battle of Uhud where a woman of Jahiliya, Hinda, had mutilated the dead body of Prophet Mohammad's uncle, Hazrat Hamza The Prophet had not only forgiven her but had made it a point to forbid the practice in every Muslim gathering thereafter for fear that the Muslims, too, might do something similar in retaliation.

      Slowly but surely what appears to be a completely new religion seems to be catching the imagination of many people in Pakistan. Its followers don't, of course, consider it a new religion. Indeed this religion insists that it is Islam, in fact it calls itself true Islam or real Islam. But it can at best be described as Jihadism as its central belief system is based on a wilful misinterpretation of the Islamic concept of Jihad. It can also be called Talibanism, as the Taliban of Afghanistan, who studied in Pakistani madrassas run by the Jamiat-ul-Ulema, are its most avid practitioners.

      By and large, the western- educated liberal Pakistani intelligentsia, as I found out during a recent visit, hates this religion and is frightened of it. But as one by one all institutions of governance are succumbing to its growing power and its capacity for evil, they are getting scared to death. Some of them are simply planning to migrate to some non-Muslim majority country. No one is really fighting this malignant force, though some journalists and human rights activists still have the courage at least to express their horror and outrage at grave personal risk.

      It is Islamicists, however, who should have been fighting this malignant growth. Some of them indeed are. (One prominent name is that of Maulana Haider Farooq Maudoodi, the son of Jamaat-e-Islami founder Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi). But they don't have the resources to counter the powerful Jihadist rhetoric backed by vast resources. Muslim masses are by and large ignorant and poor. It is not difficult to either sway them emotionally using Jihadist rhetoric based on Islamic terminology or even to buy them with promises of goodies on earth and in Heaven.

  • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 11:10:15 PM

    Comment: Hey look a PEW report....here is the link... http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=812
    7.14.05
    Concerns Over Islamic Extremism: Local and Global

    The rise of Islamic extremism in their own countries is seen as worrisome by large majorities throughout Western Europe as well as the U.S., Canada, India and Russia. Most concerned are the publics in Russia and India, where 52% and 48%, respectively, say they are very concerned. In Canada, concern is somewhat less intense with 56% being at least somewhat concerned about extremism there, while in Poland just 37% are somewhat or very concerned about this.

    Worry about the rise of Islamic extremism around the world is even more intense with substantial majorities in each of these non-Muslim countries expressing some measure of concern. Nine-in-ten in the Netherlands, and nearly as many elsewhere in Western Europe, are somewhat or very concerned about the global rise of Islamic extremism. A narrow majority in Russia (51%) and pluralities elsewhere in Europe are very concerned about this.

    So it would seem more people are starting to dislike you loonies more and more because they know the truth.
    Did you like the quotes from Muslims I found for you three idiot liars?? Thats quite a alot of Muslims....and you have a psychologist that doesnt exsist and a couple of loonies like Finkle says that the Holocaust didnt happen when even the Germans admit it did. Yah ok. So the entire rest of the world is lying and you nuts and him are right.

    And you never backed up a single accysation still.

    Truth wins. :)

  • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 10:48:08 PM

    Comment:
    "Violent, extremist Islamists invoke on their own head the true jihad. Challenging all the peoples of the Earth, and first of all traditional Islam, professed by the overwhelming majority of the Islamic world, these forces put themselves in opposition to Islam. And reacting against them is a religious, moral, social and political duty of each Muslim."
    A speech by Sheikh-ul-Islam, Talghat Tajuddin, Supreme Mufti, Representative of the Central Spiritual Board of Muslims for Russia and the East-European countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States
    Moscow, June 28, 2001

    A completely new religion seems to be catching the imagination of many people in Pakistan. Its followers don't, of course, consider it a new religion. Indeed this religion insists that it is Islam, in fact it calls itself true Islam or real Islam. But it can at best be described as Jihadism as its central belief system is based on a wilful misinterpretation of the Islamic concept of Jihad.
    By Sultan Shaheen.

    "What was once an occasional event -- silencing scholars -- increasingly has become a way of life in most Muslim countries. From South Asia to North Africa, an entire generation of Muslim intellectuals is at this moment under threat: Many have already been killed, silenced, or forced into exile."
    By Akbar Ahmed

    "Recently, I read an article, ???Women in Islam??? describing the liberation of women by Islam and Prophet (s). In reality women cannot travel alone to Hajj or visit Mecca (the safest place for any one), and women cannot drive a car in Saudi Arabia. It is not a secret that Muslims in general and Muslim women in particular in the world are the least free and least educated. So, I wonder: Oh Islam! You are a great theory but no practical value, unless you live in the West."
    By T. O. Shanavas, M. D. Vice President, Islamic Research Foundation International, Inc.

    Former President of the Spanish Federation of Islamic Religious Organisations
    "There are many Muslims who have allowed themselves to be caught by the dialectic of ???united against the Other???, and who have fallen into the logic of confrontation, exclusion, and war. But for us, Islam and the West are not incompatible. God is the One Creator. In reality, we ourselves are as much Muslims as we are Western. We are living proof of the falsity of this supposed incompatibility."

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/12/2008 8:52:50 PM

    Comment: Hello Jafra and many thanks for the message. You did a great, factual job in trying to make your case. There are certainly better audiences and certainly more intellectual people than this monkey urine.
    Anyway creeps like these can be irritating but they are petty blather in the end game.
    Please read the material from a more consciencious group such as Israel Shahak, Stanley Heller of the Middle East Crisis Commitee and Norman Finkelstein, the latter of which proved that people like Alan Dersowitz, Elie Weisel, and Joan Peters are frauds and hucksters. Today, a friend of mine who is a well liked and well respected Rabbi, invited me to lunch and he spoke as a problem solver not a problem maker. Most importanly, lets talk with eachother. Creeps like the one on this blog use propganda against us so much and try to discredit our people so much that we look for Jewish sources to buttress our cases. That is okay, as long and their not nimble brains like the vomitus that wrote in , but we need to use our people as sources. We know best what the crimes that were commited against us. are. And many Jews want to help, many don't. But we cannot allow the unhelpful people discredit our suffering and /or submerge it with their propaganda. Where in the world, when a crime is committed do they not ask and listen to the victim? The Palestinian and Lebanese victims know more than anyone how, when, where and what they suffer.
    This pile of whale terd ,that wrote in knows how slimey he and others have been. He knows about the pschological report etc. Seek the many conscientious Jews and most importantly, listen to the victims themselves as they know how much they suffered and they know what they need and want.
    Jafra and Dee, Lets find a way to communicate with one another, outside this blog. TrooH wa Terja be salame ya Akhi wa Okhti. Allah ysalamkom. The Stone Mason

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 22:40:50

      Comment: " to discredit our people so much that we look for Jewish sources to buttress our cases. That is okay, as long and their not nimble brains like the vomitus that wrote in , but we need to use our people as sources" Your hate is so apparent and pathetic. And seeing as most Arabs are illiterate good luck. But I will help.

      "Turki Al-Hamad, a Saudi-Arabian political analyst, journalist, and novelist who earned his PhD in political science at USC, takes a rather dim view of his own people???s culture:

      What is going on in Iraq and even in Lebanon, the Sudan, Algeria, Somalia and other parts of the Arab world is the result of an antiquated, unchanging and unchangeable culture that is self-producing in an odd way and is protected by strong guards to the extent that even a religion such as Islam could only subdue it for a brief period until it contained Islam. We have become sects, schools of thought, ethnic groups, tribes, clans, customs and traditions; everybody has killed everybody in defense of Islam, while it was power, wealth, fanaticism and ignorance that stood behind all of that.

      I have no doubt that Arab culture is ???antiquated??? but to say it is ???unchangeable??? goes beyond even my natural pessimism. I???ll certainly defer, though, to Al-Hamad and John Burgess on that part of the world."

      "Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo - which is seen as the highest authority in Sunni Islam - said groups which carried out suicide bombings were the enemies of Islam. Speaking at the conference in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, Sheikh Tantawi said extremist Islamic groups had appropriated Islam and its notion of jihad, or holy struggle, for their own ends.
      BBC News, 11 July, 2003"

      "Memo to Osama bin Laden:
      "I would rather live in America under Ashcroft and Bush at their worst, than in any ???Islamic state??? established by ignorant, intolerant and murderous punks like you and Mullah Omar at their best."
      A thought-provoking, controversial, pre-war article by Muqtedar Khan, Ph.D., February 12, 2003"

      "It is time that we Muslims acknowledge that the freedoms we enjoy in the US are more desirable to us than superficial solidarity with the Muslim World. If you disagree, then prove it by packing your bags and going to whichever Muslim country you identify with."
      Dr. M. A. Muqtedar Khan

      Ed Bradley: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the responsibility... Does not Islam, does not Allah require that Muslims police their own religion and rid themselves of extremists?

      Hamza Yusuf: Yes, absolutely. It's an obligation for Muslims to root them out. And I think it is a jihad now for the Muslims in the Muslim country to rid themselves of this element.
      CBS's 60 Minutes, September 30, 2001

      "Who has the greatest duty to stop violence committed by Muslims against innocent non-Muslims in the name of Islam? The answer, obviously, is Muslims."
      Ingrid Mattson,

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/12/2008 5:59:24 PM

    Comment: Gjhdad and Ree,
    i say that we ignore this dimwit and let him spew whatever that he wants. the poor thing doesn't have a life and constantly sits to write the same tired rhetoric about the Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims. he knows well that the time when people in the west believed everything that the israelis said is over. in the past, they used the judeo-christian alliance against the Muslims and Arabs to demonize us, but the europeans have managed to see beyond this hateful orientalist propaganda. unfortunately, the people in the US are so ignorant of the world and yet they believe that they know it all and those are the ones that believe the zionist propaganda machinery until we show them what the zionists do in Palestine. they lack a decent source of information and that is why the US cable companies refused to carry Al-Jazeera on television because they don't want the people in the US to know what really happens. the europeans will not let the israelis get away with everything as they do here in the US, but this US empire is weakening its grip on the world because it stretched too far. its dollar is weak and the destruction of its economy will bring about its destruction and new rules will come into existence. the zionists will be the reason behind it. they brought bush into power and dragged him into his racist crusade against Iraq, which is causing all the financial trouble we have here. now, they are heavily backing Obama against Hillary because they know that the republicans can't beat Hillary, but they can beat Obama. they know well that when it comes to choosing between a black and a white man in this racist country, a white man will win. the republicans will continue with the same stupid policies that only serve the zionists and that will complete the destruction of the empire. they want the US to attack Iran and that is what the republicans would do and that will be the straw that will break the back of the "cowboy's horse." let them do it with their own hands and let us sit and watch.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 18:32:28

      Comment: And your tactics of briging up new things to advert attention from the fact that you will not even address your lack of proof for anything you say is not fooling anyone.

      And once again only you three idiots agree with each other no one else does. The idiot college girl that gets her info from the media, The christian extremist, and the fuedalist that says he is a woman, and non religious (but hates "The Jews", and anyone who doesnt agree with shim automatically becomes a Jew).

      But lets see some more crap that I can disprove that you idiots wont back up. See morons diproving lies is alot easier then disproving the truth.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 18:12:50

      Comment: Yes I would ignore me to since you cannot refute anything I say or prove anything you say.

      Your lunatics. Everyone hates Israel but you accuse everyone of helping them in their world wide conspiracy.

      And I love your wishful thinking. Good luck time will tell who is right.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/12/2008 5:33:22 PM

    Comment: dimwit, i know that your knowledge of history is minute. had it not been for Arab oil, your little fart state would not have existed. the british created it to have a foot in the region to keep controlling oil. the jews are used as a canon fodder for the west and the jewish leaders use their own people to make money out of them and use their past misery to do that. as far a i know, the only anti-jews are the west and the jewish leaders. you think that our rockets don't do much! the hubris of the idiot! rome thought that it was going to be strong forever and where is it now? you can ridicule our rockets all you want, but you can't stop the wheel of history that will crush this racist state that was built on sins. you can laugh all you want and accuse us of being loonies and savages, but that also happened in former S. Africa and look what happened to those who laughed at the indigenous South Africans. do you think that the world is on your side? you must be delusional. most people in the world hate the jews because of their actions and not because they are jews. most of the population of the world supports the Palestinians and only a handful of states support the israelis for one reason, which is what i mentioned above. once other sources of energy are created, this state will become a bigger liability and will be dumped by the west. they are tired of the monster they created and want to end its blackmail. you wish to believe otherwise and that is fine, but that is your hubris and is your Achilles' heel that will bring about your destruction.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 18:24:46

      Comment: Oh ya more lies.

      Palestine did not exsist until the British made it. Deal with it.

      And my knowledge of history is not in question, it was Iranian historians you had a problem with. But keep lying and not backing it up. Its funny how frustrated you idiot liars are getting.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/12/2008 3:24:51 PM

    Comment: Yishai-Karin, in an interview with Haaretz, described how her research came out of her own experience as a soldier at an army base in Rafah in the Gaza Strip. She interviewed 18 ordinary soldiers and three officers whom she had served with in Gaza. The soldiers described how the violence was encouraged by some commanders. One soldier recalled: 'After two months in Rafah, a [new] commanding officer arrived... So we do a first patrol with him. It's 6am, Rafah is under curfew, there isn't so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. He [the officer] suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He was from the combat engineers.

    'He grabbed the boy. I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock...

    'The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing."

    Yishai-Karin concluded that the main reason for the soldiers' violence was a lack of training. She found that the soldiers did not know what was expected of them and therefore were free to develop their own way of behaviour. The longer a unit was left in the field, the more violent it became. The Israeli soldiers, she concluded, had a level of violence which is universal across all nations and cultures. If they are allowed to operate in difficult circumstances, such as in Gaza and the West Bank, without training and proper supervision, the violence is bound to come out.
    Contact usClose Report errors or inaccuracies: reader@observer.co.uk
    Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@guardian.co.uk
    If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk
    Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard:
    +44 (0)20 7278 2332

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 16:14:38

      Comment: First of all idiot those are like trash rags of the U.K.
      Second did you miss the fact that there is no supporting evidence. The article history link, like most in their stories, is broken.
      Third this supposed report was suppose to be from 1990. Where was it published?

      This is your proof? An undocumented, unsupported story that was in a grocery store rag??

      Haha how dumb are you.

      Here is another one of their articles.
      Gaza's factions take their fight into the school playgroundsChildren as young as five are learning a deep hatred as the power struggle between militias takes a disturbing new course
      Peter Beaumont The Observer, Sunday February 10 2008 Article history · Conta

      Your a lie spouting, trash reading, bs spouting fool that cannot back up a single claim.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/12/2008 3:19:01 PM

    Comment: In the words of one soldier: 'The truth? When there is chaos, I like it. That's when I enjoy it. It's like a drug. If I don't go into Rafah, and if there isn't some kind of riot once in some weeks, I go nuts.'

    Another explained: 'The most important thing is that it removes the burden of the law from you. You feel that you are the law. You are the law. You are the one who decides... As though from the moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [the Land of Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God.'

    The soldiers described dozens of incidents of extreme violence. One recalled an incident when a Palestinian was shot for no reason and left on the street. 'We were in a weapons carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street and, just like that, for no reason - he didn't throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach, he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the pavement and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look,' he said.

    The soldiers developed a mentality in which they would use physical violence to deter Palestinians from abusing them. One described beating women. 'With women I have no problem. With women, one threw a clog at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can't have children. Next time she won't throw clogs at me. When one of them [a woman] spat at me, I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn't have what to spit with any more.'

    Yishai-Karin found that the soldiers were exposed to violence against Palestinians from as early as their first weeks of basic training. On one occasion, the soldiers were escorting some arrested Palestinians. The arrested men were made to sit on the floor of the bus. They had been taken from their beds and were barely clothed, even though the temperature was below zero. The new recruits trampled on the Palestinians and then proceeded to beat them for the whole of the journey. They opened the bus windows and poured water on the arrested men.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/12/2008 3:18:09 PM

    Comment: Israel shaken by troops' tales of brutality against PalestiniansA psychologist blames assaults on civilians in the 1990s on soldiers' bad training, boredom and poor supervision
    Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem The Observer, Sunday October 21 2007 Article history · Contact us Contact usClose Report errors or inaccuracies: reader@observer.co.uk Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@guardian.co.uk If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard:
    +44 (0)20 7278 2332
    Advertising guide License/buy our content About this articleClose This article appeared in the Observer on Sunday October 21 2007 on p43 of the World news section. It was last updated at 00:19 on October 21 2007. A study by an Israeli psychologist into the violent behaviour of the country's soldiers is provoking bitter controversy and has awakened urgent questions about the way the army conducts itself in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.
    Nufar Yishai-Karin, a clinical psychologist at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, interviewed 21 Israeli soldiers and heard confessions of frequent brutal assaults against Palestinians, aggravated by poor training and discipline. In her recently published report, co-authored by Professor Yoel Elizur, Yishai-Karin details a series of violent incidents, including the beating of a four-year-old boy by an officer.

    The report, although dealing with the experience of soldiers in the 1990s, has triggered an impassioned debate in Israel, where it was published in an abbreviated form in the newspaper Haaretz last month. According to Yishai Karin: 'At one point or another of their service, the majority of the interviewees enjoyed violence. They enjoyed the violence because it broke the routine and they liked the destruction and the chaos. They also enjoyed the feeling of power in the violence and the sense of danger.'

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 15:47:12

      Comment: Prove he exsists then if I am full of it. How hard is that? Well pretty hard for a liar I know.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/12/2008 3:03:01 PM

    Comment: Hello Ree and Jafra,
    You can continue as you wish but remember what your dealing with. An obnoxious nerd. The Israeli psychologist, a woman who was also a soldier and her supervisor wrote how sadisdic, even evil some Israeli soldiers are. I was hideous. It appeared in many us newspapers after appearing in Israel's Haaretz newspaper. Noogie claims he can't find it. Your dealing with a liar who is part of the problem and not the solution. He is an envious dwarf who is neither a scholar, a history a theologian etc. His is just a liar with perverse sexuality.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 15:45:40

      Comment: Then prove it liar. Oh and you saying its true doesnt make it so no matter how bad you want it to be.

  • Posted By: ReeRee84 @ 02/12/2008 8:40:06 AM

    Comment: So what if Palestinians receive 2 billion dollars a year. Or even 3 or 4 billion. What does it matter when it???s all controlled by Israel anyway? Not that the dollars Palestine receive are a patch on how much the US and EU feed into Israel, thing is, it???s not documented for your eyes on the UN website, don???t be so naïve to think that everything is so black and white and all money exchanged and processes taken place are posted on the web for your pleasure! Israel holds $60 million a month alone in tax revenues that are meant to go to Palestinians. Google it. I???m sure you???ll find several articles about it for your ???proof???. Another large chunk of the money goes to Israel???s water and electricity company. So there goes over half of the money already and that???s merely in 2 examples. Furthermore, the international community, under the Quartet of the US, the UN, the EU and Russia, has also halted direct funding to the Palestinian government, saying it must recognise Israel first. That has resulted in 160,000 government workers have largely gone unpaid. So, your $2.5 billion or whatever really is peanuts. You???re really not as smart or as clued up as you think???
    Ever heard of Amira Hass? You should read some of her work and then read how her own people sued because she wrote about what she really saw. Yeah, people repeat themselves because you don't LISTEN. I think you have trouble with originality. You seem to spew the same BS that all major ???news channels??? come up with.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 15:50:20

      Comment: So they refused to give money to people that want to kill them. And your point is? The payments were restore when someone who was not bent on genocide took power.

      The US was the only one that cut off "direct " funding. So like before they did this all of the money went through USAID.

      So the Palestinian government was never short on money. And they get the warter and power for free. Perhaps you should google how their was money given to the PLO to add a desalizination plant onto the exsisting power plant and for the construction of a new power plant, but the money disapeared.

      Israel is not responsible for the failure of the Palestinian governments and its people to form a productive economy.

  • Posted By: ReeRee84 @ 02/12/2008 8:39:03 AM

    Comment: 1: Who needs proof of that when there???s proof of Israeli???s bursting into innocent Palestinians home and shooting like maniacs. Or the video on YouTube where Israeli soldiers break a small Palestinian boy???s arm. How convenient that it has been removed from the site??? Go onto YouTube and search how the Israeli???s torture innocent Palestinians, there???s hours worth of videos on there to entertain you. Be quick though, most of them will be deleted to make Israel look completely innocent!

    2: One picture? One picture that made it into international press. Probably many more than that have been destroyed and/or removed along the way??? How about thousands of dead Palestinians in the REAL WORLD? Forget all the crap YOU see. Don???t you question the things you don???t see? What about the Palestinian teenagers (ages 13-17 i.e. children) that were shot in the head by armed Israeli forces when they invaded the West Bank two weeks ago? Did you hear about that? Probably not???

    3: Explain Ben-Gurion saying that it was ok to expel a million Palestinians because Hitler expelled 5 million Jews. If someone punches you in the face, does it make it ok for you to punch an old lady walking on by in the face? Actually, don???t answer that because you???re so irrational that you probably would. Explain to everyone how joyous the Zionists were after The Six Day War when they occupied all of Palestine, some of Jordan, Egypt and Syria too. Was all of that their Holy land? No, just greed. Why did they even attack Damascus? Oh, was it a pre-emptive war? I think you???ll find it was! Syria, at that point, had not yet attacked ???Israel???. So, it???s not a case of Israeli???s attacking when they???ve been attacked, it???s a case of them attacking in case anyone is even thinking of standing in their way. This has been their strategy throughout their occupation of Palestine.

    4: One guy with questionable motives? I think all Israeli Prime Ministers have questionable motives. From Ben-Gurion through to Ehud Olmert. Teaching Israeli kids to hate Palestinians. As you???re such a fan of YouTube, you can find that video on there too. And one of Israeli???s terrorising Muslim women. The list goes on??? and that???s just ONE website. I???m sure there are so many others you could research.

    Also, the UN only considered to see Israel as a state on the condition that it would abide by two General Assembly resolutions; one being the November 1947 partition of Palestine and the other, the December 1948 resolution to protect the right of the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or be. Moshe Shertok agreed on behalf of Israel. But surprise, surprise, four days after Israel had been accepted as a recognized UN state, Ben-Gurion declared that UN's Palestine partition resolution no longer held any moral force. Funny that, considering Israel needed UN membership to be recognized on the map. I don???t think Israel is innocent of lying there??? And to this day, they do not le

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 15:27:29

      Comment: 1:Liar, there is nothing but accusations no proof. and how conveinent that your "proof" was removed from youtube. And look now youtube is controlled by the Jews. do you people realize what fools and lunatics you sound like?

      2:No that picture never mad it into the international press. It was only carried by fanatics and conspiracy web page loonies. And so because I dont see Dead palestinian children or any proof whats so ever of the acusations against Israel, that means they are true?? Are you on drugs? Is that what passes for logic in your little hate filled world?

      3: You mean the guy who believed there could be no peaceful resolution with the Arabs that wanted them destroyed....Hmm seems time has proven him right. There is nothing wrong with dealing harshly with a people that have been bent on your destruction since before they had an official country.

      4:Funny I cant seem to find those videos, hmm I wonder why you did not post links. Yeap because they didnt exsist. How ever you can see Hamas not only teacher ther children to hate Israelis but to also have no respect for their Palestinian teacher and their Government.

      Are you serious?? You expect him to keep his word after the Arabs did not keep theirs and attacked? Um you are crazy. So you would keep a promised to someone after they attacked you.....somehow I do not think you would.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/12/2008 12:59:30 AM

    Comment: mb, i guess that you haven't really met any israeli. otherwise, you would have known that they kill Palestinians and Arabs in the name of yahweh. their war against the Palestinians is a religious war. it's carried out in the name of judaism and not because they want to have a refuge from the christian oppression that they went through in europe. perhaps you should have a chat with some members of shas, united torah judaism or national religious party and you will change your mind. our war against the israelis is a war to liberate our land. maybe you never heard bush say that god told him to invade Iraq! those sweet christians who have a blood thirsty god that wants them to slaughter and occupy people! our problems were caused by the fact that we have rich natural resources that the west wants to steal from us. we would be happy to take responsibility of our problems, i.e. our natural resources. get US troops out of the Arab gulf and end zionist colonization of Palestine and leave us alone and you would never hear from us and we would never come near you. as long as you are occupying our lands to steal our natural resources, you will continue to get hell from us. it is that simple.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 08:34:05

      Comment: Funny that you forgot to mention that the only oil that comes from Palestine is olive oil and that all other oil producing arab countries own their own oil, those governments sell it and through their populations scraps from the sale.
      And as to the BS you spout about occupation, keep throwing missles and rockets at them. That seems to be working so far.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 08:27:50

      Comment: Are you really that stupid??
      Look you have how many people on here support your bs views and how many against? 2 for you and everyone else against.

      Give it up. only a handful of other loonies with mental problems are going to buy your BS. Everyone knows that your type (and I am not just talking about Muslim loonies either) hides behind children (why not you can always have more). That you kill not for religion, but because your masters who have continuously brain washed you from birth tell you to, all so they can try to be more powerful. That you are cowards, rapists, theives, and murderers. A large majority of you live like your in the dark ages, not because the oportunities are dinied you but because you wont take them. Instead you sit around whinning that you deserve better and its always someone elses fault that you have not bettered yourself.

      If you scum did manage to take over the world it would just be one big shanty town with the individual leaders sending their followers after anothers.

      But you know what, thats not going to happen, the world grows more and more tired of your lies, your refusal to live in peace, and your hate. Look at the massive movement of the world to get away from dependance on oil (including russia and the loonie that wants world war 3). No country no matter what lip service they give wants to deal with you loonies any more.

      Your a bunch of outdated throw backs that needs to grow up and take responsibility for the results of your actions. Or you can continue on your course and be wiped out and forgotten.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/12/2008 12:46:24 AM

    Comment: dimwit, the hapirus that are the hebrews that you claim are the ancestors of the jews were bandits. that means that they did not have kingdoms, they did not own the land and were merely thieves and that means that they have no right to claim that they owned Palestine in the past. is that clear enough for you? i know about the cosmetics company that is based in europe, but Jafra is a Palestinian woman from Acre who was the object of the love of her cousin whom she divorced and he wrote beautiful poetry about her that we still sing till this day in many versions. Jafra was expelled from Palestine in 1948 when the jews bombed the hell out of Acre. she ended up in Ein Il-Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon. In the 1970s, a Palestinian poet visited her cousin who ended up in Lebanon too and based on his poems, he wrote a new version that was sung by Marcel Khalifeh, the famous revolutionary Lebanese singer. in the song, Jafra is no longer the beautiful woman whose cousin is madly in love with her, she became the homeland that we desire to regain. my history is much deeper and more beautiful than what you want it to be. you would want us to be savages who want to kill jews. i told you before that even if the occupiers of Palestine were french or Chinese we would fight them till death. i don't care if they were jewish or not though i have no respect for any religion because they were all invented by men to mostly serve men. in doubting my womanhood, you sound like that sexist man who doubted the womanhood of Sojourner Truth. i couldn't be a woman otherwise, how i could i speak my mind. isn't it your view that all Arab women (Muslim & Christian) are sitting in their kitchens and making babies? you are not just racist, but you are also sexist.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/12/2008 08:11:16

      Comment: Besides reposting the same crap thast I debunk time and time again what else do you have beside the retarded way you guys try twisting my words. How does what is said in the Quran somehow means I say all muslim women and christian women(where did you construe this from?) are stuck at home in the kitchen. And if your so knowledge able tell the truth. Their are alot of Muslims women treated little better then breeding animals.

      As far as the rest of your ranting, I am tired of answering your crap over and over again. All the historians even arab ones say that Israel is where the Jews came from. Funny that almost every Palestinian can trace their ancestors back to a different area alltogether.

      Europeans (romans) called it Palestine (a derogatory word to the romans) to agravate the Jews and then the British made your country up to try to stop the fighting between the arab tribes.

      Your full of it. You have no history, no proof, and everything else screams liar in your face. But I am sure the entire world has it wrong and you few loonies that destroy peace for everyone else have it right.

  • Posted By: mbronner @ 02/11/2008 9:03:44 PM

    Comment: Muslims all over the world blame others for the problems. When Muslims take responsibility for their problems, the rest of the world might start to give a damn. No amount of Jihad will change my mind or that of anyone who believes that freedom is the most important asset a man might possess. Muslims are sitting back watching which way the wind blows and if it looks like they might defeat democracy and capitalism, watch how fast they jump on board. Such is the condition of the Muslim World, as opposed to the Christian World, The Jewish World, The Buddhist World, and even the Scientology World. Killing in the name of Allah occurs each and every day while the same Muslims are praying after they commit murder. If that isn't a world of insanity, I don't what is.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 23:29:25

      Comment: As much as I would like to agree with you, and you are right about a good deal of people who call themselves Mulsims, you are not correct in saying all. And all religions have gone trough their own violent times (christian history has alot of killing in its name). It just seems that some do not want to leave the violence behind.

      And just like the christian religion there are many many versions of Islam. Regardless of what Jarfa or the other loonies are going to say.

      The primaries are Sunni, Sufi, and Shia. Then next two largest groups are Kharijite (one of the oldest versions of Islam) and Kalam. Then there are around thirty smaller sects.

      Most of the problems comes from the Imams (the religous leaders). These leaders work in a fedual system that works in and under every Arab society, and each is trying to gain more power in their societies and over the people by any means necessary. Think David Koresh for you westerners, not an exact comparison by the cult aspects are about the same.
      And like him the make people fear this powerful evil and only they can protect them. If the leaders really believed being a mayrter was so great they would be on the front lines. But since it is about power and not religion they hide well away from any threat surrounded by people they have raised to be fanatics.

      It really is kinda sad.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/11/2008 7:58:01 PM

    Comment: Noogie was sent a ton of documentation from Israeli sources yet he still spouts out that Israel is innocent. Nerdie obviously does not feel obligated to tell the truth. He knows what Israel is doing and likes it but he is at the same time a horses arce.

    Don't lower yourself to correspondend with him anymore. Find more intellectual responents and let tinker bell stew in his own pathology.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 22:59:21

      Comment: How many times would you like me to answer? And so the U.N. is now controlled by the Jews as well as Youtube, Iranian history researchers, just about every ancient history researcher, Egypt's government web pages, Palestinian news agencies (thats where I found that the canadian guy was used as a human shield, lol Hamas doesnt use human shields!! Guess that one slipped by the editors and producers), wikipedia, all the news agencies around the world, etc.

      But wait according to you and Jafra eveyone but a few people hates theJews...That does not make sense. If everyone hates them why is everyone else participating in their world wide conspiracy??

      I will answer again.......
      1: There is no proof only accusations by hamas and hezbolla that Israel used human shields. There is proof that Hamas and Hezbolla use human shields though. They are probably projecting like you and Jafra.

      2: One picture of supposed Israeli children writing love notes on bombs....In English and misspelling really badly??? Photos by a AP photographer, that also glorifies nazis, but is not listed by the AP anymore for staging photographs....hmm wonder which photographs. Now since these children knew these bombs were "going to be used to kill palestinians" why did they right in English and not their native tounge??

      Oh because during the war with Hezbolla they came out of a bomb shelter and were egged on by the photographers. There were twelve of photographers. Only Nazi loving Sebastian (he is a big fan of Hitler) tried passing them off as legitimate. Now he has trouble finding work...

      3: Your psychologist does not seem to exsist. He is not listed at the university he supposedly works at. Or as a doctor on any local or international doctors lists. A supposed Oxford graduate that does not show up at any time in the history of Oxford as graduating there. Add that to the fact it has only been copied and posted on fanatics, christian and feduals, web pages and that no Arab news media would touch this bs with a ten foot pole.
      Research the crap you read before trying to use it as proof.

      4: One guy who is kinda a nut (did you read what any od what he wrote? he hates his religion and had done everything he can to attack it and has been proven to be a liar on several occasions. Claiming he witnest atrocities at one place and was later proven then admitted to not being there) and hangs around with other nuts. One guy with questionable motives and has been proven to be a liar....Thats your proof about the evils of Israel....wow. Dude I could do a better job of making Israel look bad with out even really trying.

      I know you have troubles with originality, I mean you keep copying and pasteing the same bs over and over again, but cant you come up with some new insults?? I mean the first ones did not bother me and were kinda childish. Perhaps you could come up with some new form/type of Jew to call me?

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/11/2008 7:41:17 PM

    Comment: Noogie ddn't anwer a single query[he likes that word] of mine. All he said was that he heard Hezbollah was accused of human shilelds etc. Of course he heard it, it was an Israeli fallacy. ISRAEL uses human shields.

    You are a waste product navel, I mean nerdie, I mean, oh well. Your imagination is surpassed only by your cowardice. e

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 23:05:15

      Comment: And dont misquote me you litle liar. I said hezbolla and hamas, who you can watch on youtube.com using children and civilians as human shields and engineer civilian casualties, has acused Israel of using children as shields.

      Strange that the loonies, hamas, hezbolla, and all the other cowardly murders always run around with camcorders to video tape their terror and brave attack on unarmed Israelis and Palestianinas but cannot provide proof of their accusations against Israel soldiers. Yeah that would probalby be because its BS.

      • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 23:52:10

        Comment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiaRHQu6j4U Lets grab some children so the Israelis don shoot us.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vyc0OZkMrk Hezbolla bravely firing rockets from a forth floor apartment.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elyXQ6g-TJs Lets shoot mortars from a school.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avm-9IglHTg Lets use ambulances to transport bombs and weapons, instead of using them to help people.

        There is alot more there as well. .

  • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 4:01:34 PM

    Comment: So lets review,

    -Israel, Hamas, and Hezbolla have been accused of using children, and civilians as human shields for propaganda purposes.
    You can easily find many pictures and video of Hamas and Hezbolla doing this. You can find many accusations (usually by Hamas and Hezbolla)of Israel doing this but no actrual proof.

    -Israel stole land that belonged to the Palestinians.
    Well Israel did occupy land that was designated by the U.N. as Palestine, they have said on numerous occasions that this was a response to the attacks and would give it up when they stopped being attacked. They have also givin some of the land back even though the continue to be attacked.

    -The land Israel is on is Palestinian land. Palestine(spelled diferently and pronounced differently) first came into being when the romans renamed the land to insult the Jewish people because they refused to change their ancient religion (ancient according to the romans), who did not care to except roman rule and pay homage to their many gods. Then it disappeared with all the fighting and being taken over by this that and the other empire.
    But that doesnt change the fact that almost all historians, including most Arab historians have said that that is where Jews originated.

    -Canaanites...well nothing really specific about this other than it meant an unspecified area along the coast, It also meant trader in another language, a type of dye in another, and the dye type makers in another.
    Their was a ancient letter found in Syria complaining about "thieves and Canaanites". At best historians think that Canaan might have been a loose confederation of city states. So someone claiming that they deserve the land because they are decendants, would be like me saying I should own Japan because my great great ancesters probably came from there.

    -Israel is the cause for all the Palestinian plight.
    According to U.N. documents available on the U.N. website the Palestinians recieved over 2 billion u.s. $ in finacle aid, last year alone, from foreign countries. This does not include what Israel gives to Palestine or what the other arab states give to Palestine (according to others on here but they have no proof).
    So if you cannot fix that country with all this extra help whos problem is it really.
    This year they are on track to recive 7.4 billion finacle aid. While not much, this free money is more than alot of countries GDP. So lets see what comes of it. Hopefully something good.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/11/2008 3:15:21 PM

    Comment: dimwit, i know these so-called gay rights organizations and we fight their orientalism all the time. they think that they are god's gift to the Arab and Muslim gays just like women's organizations that claim to want to free Arab women. you are so naive. i did not say that you said that the origin of jews is Iran. i saw the gist of what you wrote trying to claim that their origin is Palestine when in fact the oldest jewish community is in Yemen. why on earth would anyone leave lush Palestine, cross the desert and move to Yemen? of course, the movement is the other way around. what you said about the hapirus just proves my point. they are the origin of the hebrews that you claim to be your ancestors and they were bandits. i'm a woman and i worked all of my life and no one stopped me before and after i got married to an Irish man. what does "fedual" mean? my name is not the name of a cosmetics company, it's a Palestinian name the represents all the history of Palestine. you clearly don't know much about us other than the stereotypes spewed by the zionists and racist whites. nobody in the Arab world says that it's ok to rape children and pedophiles exist in every country and not just in the Arab world. the people you champion have a long history of raping little girls. in the kibbutzim, hundreds of little girls were raped by their caregivers while their mothers were working. you say that you are not jewish then you must be one of the few, a racist white who also hates the jews and wants to get rid of them and dump them on us or an indian who hates Muslims and Arabs because of the Muslim/hindu problems in india or a Lebanese maronite who thinks that he is Phoenician and not Arab and therefore, you ally yourself with the west.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 16:15:35

      Comment: http://www.jafra.com/intl_home.html <-cosmetics company trying to empower women. I really doubt you are a woman.

      And because the term haripus was used for all bandits, it refers specifically to the Jews...your stupid blind hatred is yet again aparent. So all Jews are bandits. O.K.

      More lies you refuse to back up.

  • Posted By: kitai @ 02/11/2008 12:50:24 AM

    Comment: http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:10:26

      Comment: Oooo crazy christian bable.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/10/2008 7:23:46 PM

    Comment: To: Knuckle Head, I mean Navel or Naver or whatever. There's a saying in the south US that goes "there's no fool like a dern fool." Why haven't you answered a single query or fact of mine. Antway, knock on knuckle head or wood, he has slithered away.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:53:30

      Comment: Oh and as for the Canadian military officer. I saw his supposed emails. He was very critical of both sides, and I did see him assign blame to Hamas for the fighting on almost every battle he brought up. So whats your point? He never said anything about Israelis purposely targeting schools, or any of the other bs you claimed. That was his wife, and she wasnt there.

      • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 10:55:17

        Comment: And the fact that you tried to use something that a U.N. peace keeper whos U.N. base was taken over by Hamas and then used as a human shield by Hamas is kinda disgusting.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:24:12

      Comment: Sorry, was unavailable this weekend. I will get on debunking your guyses current bs when I have some time.

      Until then, Like I have said a dozen times.
      Where is the proof for what you say about the Israelis?
      I can show you proof of Palestinians, Hezbolla, Hamas, etc. using children as human shields. Setting up and firing rockets from apartment complexes, house, etc.

      And if I was a kid in a county that was constantly attacked, I would be happy to see what was being done about it. Kids righting love leters to rockets. You need to come up with more plausable bs.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OefgMtXOc1M

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/10/2008 6:01:11 PM

    Comment: dimwit, you are confusing so many issues here. the hapirus were a bunch of bandits that attacked Canaanite villages and those are the origin of the hebrews whom you claim to be your ancestors. the oldest jewish community (your ancestors) lives in Yemen and not Iran. Yemen is the origin of the jews and not Palestine. you are confusing all these groups together and you really don't know what you are talking about. i did not read the cut and paste that you posted here. btw, i told you that i was not a Muslim and yet you bring me arguments that are not related to my religious belief. from what i understand, women in Islam get half of what men get, but men have to support them and that is why they get the double. women get to keep their share and spend none of it while men have to support them.i don't think that it is unfair. i would want someone to support me while i keep my money. the gays that were attacked were attacked by your loonies in mea shearim and not Palestinians. those were the hassidic jews who constantly close off roads and attack the gay parade. last year, the international gay parade was cancelled because there wasn't enough police to protect them from jewish fanatics.you truly live in denial!

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 10:34:39

      Comment: *sigh* Hapirus is a term for homeless person, like bandit, highwaymen, etc. It did not specify a particular culture, religion, or people. So try again.

      Do you read? The report by the Iranian historians did not say they came from Iran fool. It said they came from what is now Israel. It might be benificial if you read what you were trying to refute.

      And you just proved my point. Married women have rights they just can execute them. Having rights but not being able to use them is just like not having rights. They cannot own property or work, so those right they can use if they are not married become pointless.
      I told you I wasnt Jewish, but since I disagree with you, you assume I am. So I cannot do the same to you? Besides the fact you use the same tired rethoric of the fedual loonies, and the same lies. And is not your screen name the same as an Arab makeup company?

      As for the gay and gay rights thing...Yes there have been individuals in Israel that have problems with homosexuals, just like everywhere else. But homosexuals in Arab countries have it bad, except for the parts where it is exceptable as long as you are not married, but those parts also thing rapeing male children is ok as well. As to your facts.....well the U.N. disagress with your "facts" as well as every Human Rights organization, and every Gay Rights org. But obviously you have the right of it, everyone else is just part of the Jewish conspiracy.

  • Posted By: Jafra @ 02/10/2008 5:48:04 PM

    Comment: dimwit, you seem to be overwhelmed to the point that you can't tell who is saying this or that to you. i never said that homosexualls were not killed in Iran, which is what someone else said and not me. there were two that were killed and it's a not a state policy as you would like to portray it. Iran's government has a very civilized policy regarding gays. it is much better than that of your "civilized" world. gays live their lives without anyone bothering them because homosexuality is accepted within the Iranian society and teh two were killed because they were having sex n public. in Iran, they don't call it a lifestyle as they do in the west, but it's part of the natural sexual relationships. that's what Ahmadienjad said at columbia university. he did not deny the existence of gays; he denied the existence of the lifestyle that gays have in the west. when your government allows gays to get married, adopt children, parade without getting attacked and stabbed on the streets come and argue with me.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:49:21

      Comment: Hmm well lets see...the U.N., every human rights organization, and every gay rights organization that I checked seems to disagree with you about Iran's track record with homosexuals. But I am sure they are all part of the Jewish conspiracy as well.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/10/2008 1:19:57 AM

    Comment: Where's navel, I mean noogie, I9 mean knuckle head. Seems he has been unable to remove his head from his back side and answer these issues. Good riddance to a major creepizoid. His nose probably grew or he got hit by lightening for his feloniousness.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:36:35

      Comment: Psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen

      Hmm funny I can find the supposed report that came from this guy on fanatic, and conspiracy therory web pages word for word, but nothing about this supposed Psychologist or report from any legitimate source.

      Perhaps like all of your other stuff it is made up and distorted.............

      • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 10:42:03

        Comment: Hmm and neither he nor the other supposed psychologist are listed in anything with the University, but we all know thats just another part of the Jewish conspiracy. Pardon me while I laugh.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:11:52 PM

    Comment: Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 9:53:52 PM
    Comment: Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 9:29:31 PM
    Comment: To:Naver, attention everyone
    Will you, right here and right now answer, not avoid, what has been said 10x to you but you never addressed:
    1]Israeli children were seen writing love notes and kissing Israeli missles launched at Lebanese civilians
    2]Israel uses human shields, often trying little kids to the front of their jeeps and tanks
    3]The Israeli psychologist that stated Israeli soldiers enjoy sadism and torture of unarmed Palestinian men women and children
    4] Israel Shahak, a Holocaust survivor and former head of Israel's human rights commission calling Israeli soldier, settler and politician behavior "Hitlerian.""

    If Noodle, I mean noogie, I mean, oh well I'm going to call him knuckle head, does not answer these queries[not that he is a scholar or anything]right here, right now, I say we cease corresponding with him. This will undoubtable ruin his social life but if he is going to continue with cry baby avoiding of the issues posed then we should let this white trash, tootie fruitie go back to his evil ways on his own. His cowardice[Lord, please, I beg you, grant me a fair one on one fight with an Israeli soldier, I beg you Lord] slime can slither back to the prince of darkness.
    I'm happy Knuckle head came out of the closet on this blog. Add that to his lack of qualities and yuck. Somebody please translate my e-mail for him. Knuckle head is like many Israelis; they neither speak Hebrew or English well, just both like crap.
    Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 9:53:52 PM

    • Posted By: Naver @ 02/11/2008 08:27:44

      Comment: It is quite funny how people fall back on insults when they are loosing an argument. And once again since I dont agree with you I automatically am a, well now Im a stupid Jew instead or a dirty Jew. Your blind hate is more than apparent,

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:07:33 PM

    Comment: NOTES:

    General Matan Vilna???i must have known what happened. High-ranking officers who served on the Occupied West Bank had voiced similar warnings against Israeli Army behavior. ???The orders left a wide gap, a margin... of intentionally un-specified ???grey zone???, which encouraged violent behavior of soldiers???, said Reserve Colonel Elisha Shapira, who served in the Nablus Area at the same time. Soldiers were told ???don???t hit Palestinians - but bring them to interrogation ???swell-headed??? - blown-up???.

    The events, which Nofer Ishai-Karen researched, happened some 17 years ago.

    The situation has further deteriorated since that time. Now Israeli Army and Air Force General openly take pride in acts of revenge against Palestinian civilians. Maj-Gen Eliezer Shkeidi took pride in announcing that his pilots break the sound barrier over Gaza, producing sonic booms.

    These cause severe PTSD symptoms among young children; they have also caused miscarriages among pregnant women. The indiscriminate shelling of Palestinian homes had caused many deaths lately, including many children. Perhaps last but not least: The Israeli cabinet, backed by Washington, said it would disrupt power and fuel supply to Gaza.

    [1] This is an abbreviated translation of an article by Dalia Karpel titled HAMEDOVEVET [=the one who makes people talk]. The article appeared on the Hebrew Weekend Supplement, on 21 September 2007. It is based on academic research, which Nofer Ishai-Karen and Psychology Prof. Joel Elizur, of the Hebrew University published in ALPAYIM Magazine Vol. 31.

    [2] The article was not translated to English and thus did NOT appear in Haaretz English Language edition.

    [3] Psychology Prof. Joel Elizur, of the Hebrew University, who guided Nofer Ishai-Karen in her Master???s thesis, served in the reserves in the Mental Health Department of the Israeli Army. But the IDF wouldn???t allow him to research into Israeli Soldiers??? violence. The researchers hold the interview raw audio material.

    [4] To my best knowledge the Israeli Army hasn???t either charged a single case of abuse or murder by soldiers of Palestinians in proper court.

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:06:00 PM

    Comment: ILAN??? VILENDA???S testimony:

    ???Our job was to beat them... I personally hit a boy and another. I used my hands or the truncheon. We beat more severely [Palestinian] adults. We acted like policemen but we acted outside the law. There was this Palestinian who had a TV at home. The World Cup in Soccer was on, and we used to invade his privacy to watch the games. After a while he had enough, and asked us take the TV set and move.

    ???I was born on a Kibbutz, to a family whose values were humane ???Zionist left wing???. The Palestinians threw tons of stones at us. Whereas at the beginning my ideological commitment restrained my actions, my anger accumulated, and I released it violently. It was meant to be. We were there ???to make them [Palestinians] pay.??? My political views changed too. I now support the extreme-right-religious National-Religious Party.???

    After his release from the army, Vilenda and 5 other Israelis were arrested in Goa, India for possession of LSD. ???I wanted to serve my country. This was my task... but the entire IDF is executing illegal-orders.???

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:04:57 PM

    Comment: Soldier ???H??? testimony:

    ???After two months in Rafah a new NCO commander arrived. The first patrol, which he commanded, was at 06 hours. Rafah was under curfew. Not a soul was on the street. Then he saw a young boy, of about 4, playing in the sand in the courtyard of his home. The kid was building a castle in the sand.

    Suddenly the NCO, a guy from the Engineers Corps, ran to chase the kid. We followed. He captured the kid and broke his elbow. Broke the kid???s elbow! Damn me if I???m not telling the truth! Then the NCO treaded on the kid???s stomach three times, before he moved on. We couldn???t believe our eyes... But the next day we went on patrol with that guy and the soldiers started to imitate him...

    What happened then?

    Some guys couldn???t stomach it. The case of severe abuse of three young adolescents, who were bounded hand and foot by a staff sergeant, got them to alert a senior officer. ???When the medic arrived the boys were bleeding all over, their clothes were soaked with blood, and they were shivering from fear.

    They were made to kneel like dogs and were afraid to move???. The NCO was punished by 3 months detention. But the platoon commander backed the NCO and reprimanded the conscientious soldiers for ???defaming the platoon???.???

    Nofer Ishai-Karen: The sacred value in the [Israeli] Army is ???fighters??? solidarity???, i. e., loyalty towards your fellow combatants. The platoons protected its secrets, as a family defends its ???black sheep???. The fellows regard as ???traitors??? the conscientious soldiers, says Nofer Ishai-Karen. The cover-up was complete when our ???good guy??? was excommunicated and ostracized by the entire platoon. And the NCO? He left the country, and now lives in the U. S. of A. The majority of the soldiers of these platoons had left Israel. Only five or six remain in Israel.

    Nofer studied two platoons ESHBAL and ESHKHAR, the last was more extremely violent, she says.

    Finally back to Ilan Vilenda, the only soldier who allowed Nofer to use his full name and even be photographed. Vilenda was a staff sergeant in charge of ???operations???.

    ILAN??? VILENDA???S testimony

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:03:59 PM

    Comment: Soldier ???C??? testimony:

    ???The truth is that I love this mess - I enjoy it. It is like being on drugs. If I didn???t enter Rafah, to put down some rebellion -at least once a week- I???d go berserk.???

    Soldier ???D??? testimony:

    ???What is great is that you don???t have to follow any law or rule. You feel that YOU ARE THE LAW; you decide. Once you go into the Occupied Territories YOU ARE GOD???.

    Emotional dumbness
    Soldier ???E??? testimony:

    ???We drove an APC through Rafah. A man of 25 walked nearby. He didn???t hurl a stone at us or anything. Then without any reason ???X??? shot him in the stomach. We left him lying on the sidewalk???.

    Soldier ???F??? testimony:

    Some ???tough guys??? developed it into ???an ideology???, according to which we have to react brutally even for minor events. A woman threw a sandal at me. I kicked her with my foot at her crotch. I broke her. She can???t have children any longer. Next time she won???t throw sandals at me... and when another woman spat at me she got the butt of my gun in her face. She can???t spit now.

    Soldier ???G??? described his first forced entry to a home to detain a Palestinian:

    ???He was real big, some 30 years old. He refused detention. We hit him but couldn???t force him down. Some people came hurling stones at us. We beat him and told him to lie down. Till he finally did. We drove to the base with him. By that time he had lost consciousness. He died some days later???.

    Nofer Ishai-Karen: Some NCOs encouraged the soldiers to behave brutally, and provided their own example.

    Soldier ???H??? testimony:

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 10:02:52 PM

    Comment: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A NEW ISRAELI STUDY CONFIRMS OUR WORST FEARS
    On the academic research which Psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen and Psychology Prof. Joel Elizur, of the Hebrew University published last Friday, only in the Hebrew edition of Haaretz. We thought you should know!

    ???We - Israeli Soldiers - were put there to punish the Palestinians???, says Ilan Vilenda, an Israeli soldier who served in Rafah during the first Intifada.

    Ilan is the only soldier of 21 who agreed to have his name published, after he was interviewed by psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen.

    The soldiers spoke freely to Nofer, who served with them in the same ASHBAL platoon 20 years ago; They disclosing their innermost emotions about the horrendous crimes, in which they took part: Murder, breaking bones of Palestinian children, actions of humiliation, destruction of property, robbery and theft.

    Soldier ???A??? testimony:

    ???We decided to turn an old shower in our base to a make-shift detention cell. A Palestinian was brought there, handcuffed and mouth banded so he couldn???t talk, or move. We???forgot him there for three days???...

    Soldier ???B??? testimony:

    ???I was on my first patrol. Others simply shot like mad. I started to shoot as they did. They ???set my on???. I took my weapon and shot. Nobody was there to tell me otherwise???

    Psychologist Ishai-Karen was shocked to find that the soldiers enjoyed the ???intoxication of power???, and had pleasure from using violence. She said: ???Most of my interviewees enjoyed their own instigated violence during their Occupation service???.

    Soldier ???C??? testimony

  • Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 9:53:52 PM

    Comment: Posted By: gjhdad @ 02/08/2008 9:29:31 PM
    Comment: To:Naver, attention everyone
    Will you, right here and right now answer, not avoid, what has been said 10x to you but you never addressed:
    1]Israeli children were seen writing love notes and kissing Israeli missles launched at Lebanese civilians
    2]Israel uses human shields, often trying little kids to the front of their jeeps and tanks
    3]The Israeli psychologist that stated Israeli soldiers enjoy sadism and torture of unarmed Palestinian men women and children
    4] Israel Shahak, a Holocaust survivor and former head of Israel's human rights commission calling Israeli soldier, settler and politician behavior "Hitlerian.""

    If Noodle, I mean noogie, I mean, oh well I'm going to call him knuckle head, does not answer these queries[not that he is a scholar or anything]right here, right now, I say we cease corresponding with him. This will undoubtable ruin his social life but if he is going to continue with cry baby avoiding of the issues posed then we should let this white trash, tootie fruitie go back to his evil ways on his own. His cowardice[Lord, please, I beg you, grant me a fair one on one fight with an Israeli soldier, I beg you Lord] slime can slither back to the prince of darkness.
    I'm happy Knuckle head came out of the closet on this blog. Add that to his lack of qualities and yuck. Somebody please translate my e-mail for him. Knuckle head is like many Israelis; they neither speak Hebrew or English well, just both like crap.