He's Not as Smart as He Thinks

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  • Posted By: Thedude123 @ 01/25/2008 4:28:34 PM

    This is a worthless study, and is one person's opinion about how people perceive themselves. Why not conduct a study that actually reveals something and stop wasting government dollars on who thinks they are the smartest. You even admit the fact that this research is pointless in your article and holds no significant meaning to real life. Oh and to comment on "Kitkatt's" post, I would love to see any proof that women are paid less than men for the same work. Perhaps women that are paid less are not as qualified as their male counterparts and vise versa.
    post

    • Posted By: shockers69 @ 01/25/2008 4:47:33 PM

      To; Thedude 123----If you were smart you would realize that all the studies do show that women get paid less for the same position. This is a fact. Its not right, but its a fact. Having said that, the rate of pay between genders are starting to even out. So I say this to thedude. If your going to pop off and make a comment like that, you should actually know what your talking about and obviously you dont. Find something better to do, your not good at this.

      • Posted By: ndmidl @ 01/25/2008 7:58:08 PM

        hey shockers69 white male income has been stagnant for thirty years along with the black males an womens income has increased by 300% now lets keep thinking were better an keep catering to women and pretty soon they will run the world like want too!!! guys stick to your own agendas an not worry about the woman they will take care of themselves like always remember they dont need us!?! sorry about compositon time not talent is my objective the heck with spell check!! :)

        • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 3:28:03 PM

          And yet despite that meteoric increase, women are still paid substantially less than men for doing the same job. Strange, that, isn't it?

  • Posted By: natrgrl @ 01/25/2008 3:39:56 PM

    i think this article just emphasizes what most people aren't really ready to admit, but know is true. if you really examine your own notions about your own intelligence, whether your a man or a woman, you may see that you yourself fit right into this weird global pattern. it's not bashing anyone, it's actually more a comment, in my opinion, on the gender inequalities that still exist the whole world over. i actually know for a fact, through personal experience and studies i've read, that when women are given a task as a group, and there aren't any men in the group, there will be some clear leaders in every aspect of the task and they wind up getting things done.. but, if there is one or more men added to the mix, they will usually all differ to the men to make decisions for the group as a whole. this goes towards at least agreeing with, if not proving, that it's true that women and men both perceive men to be more intelligent. i know most women i have in my circle would probably agree that while this is a sad phenomenon, it's probably a lot better than it used to be. women still urn $0.75 for every dollar urned by men, for the same positions, so there must be people at the top that aren't just thinking and judging their employees by the "clarity of their ideas" and their work ethic. this ha been the case in my own life, as well as the lives of many of my colleagues. strong women, and those who may try to get more for what they do, are sometimes labeled as being "difficult" or a five letter word meaning literally "female dog".. by men and other women. and then, if women don't demand more or equal pay/benefits/opportunities, they're labeled as "subservient" or as a dish-rag. it's not about bashing, again, it's just reality. i'd advise anyone interested in reading some more about this issue to read a book called "the f-word".. it deals with the feminist movement through the generations, and how a lot of people actually think it's over, but there's still a lot of inequalities that exist, there just a little more "undercover" maybe. it gives all sorts of statistics and sites many many studies by all sorts of reputable organizations.. it may a little one sided, i guess, but will give those of you out there who were insulted by this article a different perspective, which is never a bad thing.
    (and yeah, dr. phil is a media spectacle for sure.. i agree. at least he's getting people talking about their cr*p!)

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 3:14:06 PM

      "women still urn $0.75 for every dollar urned by men"

      In the present instance I suspect severe overpayment.

  • Posted By: HighTide @ 01/25/2008 2:55:01 PM

    I agree that women do not live up to their potential. And, yes men, women are smart.
    I am one of the women that strive for intellectual success in many areas, especially the math and sciences. One time I was at a Christmas dinner and the man next to me started preaching about how women cannot do math. Boy did that get my veins pumping. I do notice, though, that in all my previous classes, the majority of the females either truthfully could not compute math or they fooled themselves into what society has taught them -- women and math don't go. Tell that to Maria Agnesi or Amalie Emmy Noether.

    • Posted By: TheInquisitor @ 01/25/2008 3:47:15 PM

      Yeah but I had an english lit teacher tell a class that boys can't write or read as well as girls, and girls are far superior. There were male english majors in that class. You know if a male professor said that he would have been immediately dismissed from the university. In fact I also heard it repeated in highschool, so how should that be taken? I have heard a lot of this kind of stuff through school from female teachers, but no at all from male teachers about girls... though I do live in quite a liberal area... but really how can that be ok for a female teacher to say about male students but not the other way around? Is it because men just deserve it because of how women were treated for 2000 years? To me that seems to be a very arrogant and self centered response.

      I think this is why men find it hard to respect feminism these days even in very feminist friendly communities. The double standard is just too noticeable. At risk in sounding sexist, feminist women seem to have trouble establishing a consistant and fair philosophy that is benificial to both sexes. Instead I see much of this double standard where women should be treated well, while at the same time they can act even more arrogant, self centered, sexist, and egotistical then any man I know.

      • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 3:08:33 PM

        You're clearly not meeting any intelligent feminists. And you are correct - it is no more legitimate for a teacher to say "Boys are bad at English" than it is for a teacher to say "Girls are bad at math." A teacher's job is to teach, not to undermine.

  • Posted By: thylacine @ 01/25/2008 2:09:00 PM

    Wimmins were maid to git my beers. -Bob

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 3:01:13 PM

      Well, to be fair, "maid" is a pretty inspired "error" in this context.

    • Posted By: Lors_opinion @ 01/25/2008 3:13:53 PM

      I hope you misspelled on purpose! The comment was ignorant enough and then to misspell about every word! Good for you though, you spelled "BEERS" right! You helped prove some truth to the article! Way to go!

  • Posted By: manolito @ 01/29/2008 2:44:26 PM

    Comment: IT SEEMS THAT MOST OF THE WOMEN IN HERE, HAVE SUCH A STRONG DESIRE (IN THEIR SUBCONSCIOUS GUTTER) TO BE A MAN, THEY KEEP TALKING ABOUT MEN INTELLIGENCE, I AM NOT AWARE SO FAR OF ANY FEMALE EINSTEIN,DAVINCI, FREUD, OR MICHELANGELO.... SO KEEP TRYING WHILE YOU SCRATCH THE FLOORS AND MY BATHROOMS.... GOD IS A MAN ......PERIOD!

  • Posted By: LoveMyMan @ 01/25/2008 12:20:01 PM

    I noticed that a lot of those commenting did not actually read the article. The article states that, overall, on average, men and women have roughly the same IQ. However, there are more really smart men and really dumb men than women. This has been known for a long time. The article also pointed out that men do excel more and score higher in certain areas, like spatial awareness, than women and women score higher in areas like language. This is natural, since we are meant to complement each other. As a woman, I have a great deal of respect for men. Without men, women would be hurting, and visa-versa.

    One thing, I have noticed, is that many men in my life, like my husband and father-law, feel the need to constantly put down women, their intelligence and abilities. That, to me, says that their confidence in their own superiority is lacking. Otherwise, they would not feel the need to constantly prove it. I do not feel the need to do the same. I would much rather elevate and complement men in general and the men in my life, than put them down.

    Personally, I am an outlier, since my IQ score is in the top 1% of the population and I score very high in things like spatial awareness, as well as language. In fact, I do all the repairs, mechanic and contruction work at my house, because my husband struggles with those things. However, my husband is much better at socializing and persuading others than I am. This, in my opinion, is even more useful, financially, and in many other areas of life then my "superior intelligence." The problem is, that intelligence test do not take into account things like social skills.

    Also, the most important indicator of success and accomplishment, in my opinion, is having a happy home life, good familial relationships, and a close relationship with God. These things have little to do with intelligence and much more to do with wisdom and morality. Many women realize this, so they choose not to spend 60-80 hours a week pursuing high-praise careers at the expense of their family. Just because there are not a lot of women pursuing a certain area of expertise of field of study, does not mean they can't. It may just mean they have other and more important priorities, such as the welfare of their family and their faith.

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:42:49 PM

      I hate to bring this up given the overall sensible tone of your post, but - how is it you're comfortable being married to a man who constantly puts women down?

    • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 01/25/2008 12:27:46 PM

      Excellent comments. It's refreshing to read a post stating the importance of wisdom and morality.

      • Posted By: joanbazar @ 01/25/2008 1:20:28 PM

        Couln't have said it any better. Kudos!

  • Posted By: mensawareness @ 01/25/2008 11:01:25 AM

    This is silly. I think this article is a case of politically correct double standards. As a male who has worked in IT for the last 10 years I am not only insulted and offended by this article, but I realize that if a male wrote the same article claiming 'scientific proof' that we are smarter than women feminists, NOW and other women's groups would claim sexism and have a victim party. For some reason the only thing men have not done that is smart is organize to point out misandric articles like this one. It is however, not politically incorrect to bash men. For some reason no matter what articles women write putting men down it seems rare that a man is informed enough to consider it hateful. If women are smarter, then take over the IT business, the science business and math as a career. The "male ego" is such a stereotype at this point. Why is one of the leading theoretical physicists a woman but some guy with no shirt gets arrested on the show COPS for beating his wife? The answer is not because mental capacity is a gender issue. It is because intelligence is an individual thing. All I'm saying is that by the time Joan Raymond writes this pseudo-scientific and hateful article people fail to see the misandry. beniceyall says this article is not about how women are smarter but yes it is, read the title. Also beniceyall says men die more and are awarded more Darwin awards. This is because it is much more natural for men to take risks that women usually do not take. Not because men are not as smart. It is also a neat trick to say a man "has an ego" as soon as he defends his gender. The "fragile male ego" is another one of the many negative stereotypes injected into men's lives. Women have egos, too. The Darwin awards are a joke, not a justification for the media to continuously bash males and put females on a pedestal. Lastly, I do not thing one gender or race or anything is smarter than the other, I just think that men these days are treated like black people were in the 60's. We can be called not as smart as women, rapists, woman-beaters, perverts, pedophiles. Men take the blame and are exploited. Our sexuality is vilified and our intelligence is degraded, usually by women who are "experts". No one would ever say or write half of the things about women that western society says and writes about men, just out of respect.

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:33:52 PM

      Except that women have historically been the victims of precisely the slander you claim to be suffering from - throughout history and continuing to this day.

  • Posted By: Maria57 @ 01/25/2008 10:41:08 AM

    I am a very independent woman, thanks to my late husband who was a mechanic. I raised my three boys and one girl on my own, i agree that men have bigger egos than abilities and Mr Urchin we dont need to grow a pair to have abilities or outdo men in many areas. I fix cars/trucks do home repairs, trim trees, and yes i can spell good too even though i only finished the 10th grade, i do have GED, i also repair computers thats the icing on the cake because i didnt go to college to learn that. About the only thing that men have over women is the physical built they are strong not to say women are not, i am very strong but sometimes men can do somewhat more than me. I sure would like to meet a man that i could call my equal but nothing so far, frustration sits in, i give up, i have always said the word MAN is over rated as far as am concerned.

    • Posted By: stone5150 @ 01/25/2008 10:44:13 AM

      Congrats on all that you've accomplished despite the odds.

      Good thing you don't have an ego to get in your way.

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 01/25/2008 10:59:03 AM

        Should we just call you a WO then?

        • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 01/25/2008 11:01:54 AM

          I fix bridges, fly kites, sew bras, ice cakes, ice skate, pee standing up, build monuments, spell stuff, read, drive a car, drain pasta, and play the piano despite being a male father of 5. I'm cool.

          • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:29:29 PM

            And you, of course, carried, delivered, and provided all childcare for those five children, yes?

    • Posted By: easybake @ 01/25/2008 11:11:25 AM

      Oh my, it sounds like we have a bitter one here. This study was not about who is smarter or better at all. Just about who has the bigger ego. I have always thought that those of us that
      toot our own horns the loudest are doing so because we need to convince ourselves.
      I wonder if that is taken in to account in this study. Just because a man verbalizes his
      confidence in his abilty, does that mean he really believes it?

      • Posted By: Maria57 @ 01/25/2008 2:16:27 PM

        easybake not tooting no horns here just stating a fact, not bitter at all very happy with myself and am not bashing men--A British researcher reports that the male ego is often larger than his actual IQ. But you might be surprised by what women think of men's intellect. and yes some men dont have a IQ to brag about, and their egos are bigger than their IQ.

  • Posted By: Debi_B @ 01/25/2008 9:30:06 AM

    As an example of my superior intelligence, I somehow failed to make my comment appear next to gwhanson's where it would have made sense. *snicker* Take away one point from the females, lol. Really, I can't believe anyone takes this seriously. I agree with many others that there has to be a better way to spend research funds.

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:22:21 PM

      Well, the spate of moronic comments this story has inspired clearly indicates many people, male and female, need to both learn a little history and think a little harder about their assumptions and prejudices regarding gender stereotypes. Studies like this will continue to be necessary as long as people elect to remain ignorant.

  • Posted By: sgulukota @ 01/24/2008 11:34:07 AM

    I believe men think with their brain and don't feel much. Woman feel with their heart and don't think much. They are just as different as apples and oranges. I dont think either are wrong.

    However the difference may show up in health statistics.

    Men dont use their heart well enough and hence end up with higher risk of heart attack.
    Woman dont use their brains well and hence have a higher chance of Alzheimer's.

    • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:07:57 PM

      I see you're doing your part to redress that imbalance.

  • Posted By: Reno Nalanthi @ 01/24/2008 11:14:25 AM

    Third-rate "Studies" such as this are pointless - and I quite dislike sociological nonsense and speculations.
    Let's go back to basics... Men and women are equally intelligent (however in differing aspects) and therefore cannot really be compared to one another.
    Men are logical actors - men make decisions based on fact and logical reason, thus preferring to obtain and compile information in order to pave a foundation for said decision.
    Women are emotional actors - women base decisions on the aspect of emotion - excelling as tie-downs for relationships, love, etc.
    The only issue (since this article is about and in favor of woman) is that some women gravely mistake emotions as logic. Emotions can lead to irrational thoughts and actions - hence the insecurities that everyone complains about in society - obesity, fashions, practices, etc. Though the Jungian theory states that "thinkers" and "feelers" are equal, I encorage you, dear readers, to weigh the difference between emotion and logic.
    In conclusion, you cannot simply compare logic and emotion, seeing as how they differ, but EACH HOLDS ITS OWN RESPECTIVE PLACE.
    On a side note, comments such as that of poster #1 simply illustrate complete ignorance with the 'in your face' approach.

    • Posted By: Lina McLane @ 01/24/2008 11:34:08 AM

      I've always resented claims like this. It's insulting to women AND men, insinuating that men are cold logical bastards and women are irrational emotional wrecks. There are no studies validating that, or at least none that can be separated from societal expectations and influences. I myself consistently get labeled a logical thinker, not an emotional one -- although, I admit, I tend to flare up in anger when I read stupid tripe like this touted as real science.

      • Posted By: Terrils @ 01/29/2008 2:03:37 PM

        Thank you, Lina, for saying it so I didn't have to.

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 01/24/2008 12:30:13 PM

      I CAN'T DISAGREE BUT AS YOU STATE MEN DON'T ACT BY EMOTION, BUT LOGIC? SO I GUESS THIS IN ITS SELF MAKES BUSHS DESCION TO INVADE IRAQ, THE ACT OF A WOMAN. WAS NOT LOGIC OR INTELL OR THE COMPILING OF ANY INFO! JUST AN EMOTIONAL ACTION, CAUSE BY THE ATTACK ON HIS FATHER! NO OTHER REASON EXSIST FOR HIS ACTIONS! NO DISRESPECT INTENDED TO WOMEN AT ALL. ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE CREATED EQUAL,PHY DIFFERENT, BUT EQUAL

  • Posted By: JennO @ 01/29/2008 11:49:46 AM

    I heard that the person with the highest recorded IQ is a woman. I???m not sure if this is still true or not. I think one major problem our society has is they confuse IQ with intelligence. IQ is a measurement of how fast someone learns. However, the IQ tests only cover a limited number of subjects. So they are not really a good measurement of actually intelligence.

    • Posted By: ombrahma @ 01/29/2008 1:58:18 PM

      IQ is how much a person has learnt, and in a given limited time, how fast can they apply their knowledge to correctly address limited issues (not necessarilty limitied to their knowledge base).

  • Posted By: ombrahma @ 01/29/2008 1:32:48 PM

    Biblical Prophecy" The meek shall inherit the earth." The men who wrote Bible thought women were meek. Now, the truth emerges. All mighty men, brace thyself to be ruled by women, being cared for by women, and being humbled by women. It is written in Bible. Do not forget another error that led men to believe the earth was flat, and it was the center of universe. Then came Galilieo who removed the darkness by spending time in dark dungeons. The only difference this time is Joan Raymond will not be imprisoned for reporting the truth this time.

  • Posted By: jrondane @ 01/29/2008 11:36:21 AM

    Bly University did a similar study about gender and IQ. The data they are collecting is ongoing, so take the test and contribute. I will have you know that I scored higher than my husband :)

    http://www.blyuniversity.com/research/avtest.html

  • Posted By: SenseCheck @ 01/29/2008 9:53:30 AM

    I???m not much of a fan of articles like this because they really have nothing of substance to offer. Instead consider the following:

    When measuring intelligence in a lab setting you might use IQ tests that measure the ability to reason, whereas in the real world intelligence is measured more by what useful information you know. Thus some people are impressed if you can pick the next pattern in a sequence, but when that undergoes the usefulness filter, it pales in comparison to whether you can replace a hot water heater, fix a leaky toilet, or get the computer to work.

    Of course women value the handy skills, and though capable of acquiring them, many seem to lack the confidence to even try. However, one good thing for females is that schools are much better suited to them. Kids are to hold still, listen, and learn from that. Males do better by moving around, touching, and playing with things. Thus, they do much more of their learning outside school, from other males who know how to do things.

    I have quite a few male friends who are quite amazing with the variety of different things they know and can do. The guys all have fathers with many skills too. I know many of the fathers and have heard from them how their fathers taught them. Since the formal education system is geared more for females, males balance it out through a generational learning system that is mostly passed on only to them.

    I, by contrast, am a father raising a daughter, passing on what I know. In addition to the how to, I give my daughter life lessons that properly shape her character and boost her self-confidence, which makes everything easier, from academics to hands on projects.

    Life lessons are rooted in faith and practical knowledge. For instance, # 10 as she calls it, How do you get the tallest building in the world? Build it or tear everyone else's down. Be a builder.

    Kids taught to believe in themselves, to be conscious of what is happening around them, and learn from mistakes, theirs and other people???s, will always do very well. My daughter is asked what she thinks might work. I teach her and I invite her to teach me things she knows.

    Intelligence is more than just an IQ test can measure.

    By the way, don't let ego bother you, sometimes it needs to be really big for people to solve problems that are much larger than themselves. You can hear a lot of ego in Thomas Edison when he talked about lighting the city with electric light, or in his comment, no I didn???t fail, I just found another way to not invent the electric light bulb.

    The fact is we learn the most by extrapolation, IE how is this problem like something I know. We then test and try hypotheses until we find what works on the problem at hand. We value this skill above many others and so we should.

    Life lesson # 7, everyone is really smart about something and everyone is really dumb about something.

  • Posted By: SenseCheck @ 01/29/2008 9:51:15 AM

    I???m not much of a fan of articles like this because they really have nothing of substance to offer. Instead consider the following:

    When measuring intelligence in a lab setting you might use IQ tests that measure the ability to reason, whereas in the real world intelligence is measured more by what useful information you know. Thus some people are impressed if you can pick the next pattern in a sequence, but when that undergoes the usefulness filter, it pales in comparison to whether you can replace a hot water heater, fix a leaky toilet, or get the computer to work.

    Of course women value the handy skills, and though capable of acquiring them, many seem to lack the confidence to even try. However, one good thing for females is that schools are much better suited to them. Kids are to hold still, listen, and learn from that. Males do better by moving around, touching, and playing with things. Thus, they do much more of their learning outside school, from other males who know how to do things.

    I have quite a few male friends who are quite amazing with the variety of different things they know and can do. The guys all have fathers with many skills too. I know many of the fathers and have heard from them how their fathers taught them. Since the formal education system is geared more for females, males balance it out through a generational learning system that is mostly passed on only to them.

    I, by contrast, am a father raising a daughter, passing on what I know. In addition to the how to, I give my daughter life lessons that properly shape her character and boost her self-confidence, which makes everything easier, from academics to hands on projects.

    Life lessons are rooted in faith and practical knowledge. For instance, # 10 as she calls it, How do you get the tallest building in the world? Build it or tear everyone else's down. Be a builder.

    Kids taught to believe in themselves, to be conscious of what is happening around them, and learn from mistakes, theirs and other people???s, will always do very well. My daughter is asked what she thinks might work. I teach her and I invite her to teach me things she knows.

    Intelligence is more than just an IQ test can measure.

    By the way, don't let ego bother you, sometimes it needs to be really big for people to solve problems that are much larger than themselves. You can hear a lot of ego in Thomas Edison when he talked about lighting the city with electric light, or in his comment, no I didn???t fail, I just found another way to not invent the electric light bulb.

    The fact is we learn the most by extrapolation, IE how is this problem like something I know. We then test and try hypotheses until we find what works on the problem at hand. We value this skill above many others and so we should.

    Life lesson # 7, everyone is really smart about something and everyone is really dumb about something.

  • Posted By: klaatu62 @ 01/29/2008 8:43:32 AM

    This is silly! A whole bunch of grown people arguing about research that translates to NOTHING when it comes to individual people. First of all, everyone who is entering comments here is by definition of circumstance (you are actually reading an article in Newsweek!) a little ahead of the curve.

    When we look at the results of research, we have to take the time to READ THE RESULTS. It does not say ALL WOMEN think they are less intelligent than men, it says that ON AVERAGE women don't give themselves enough credit for their own intelligence. On average, men give themselves more credit than they deserve. Sadly, on average women give men more credit than they deserve also.

    But lets look at the situation. Much of the effect comes from couples, and that means that womens views of men are limited in scope to their impressions of their mate. This can seriously skew things since women traditionally will look to find their equal or better in a mate. Men traditionally look to find someone they can shine for. Therefore the skewed effect starts here.

    Now this is not true of all couples. I personally want an equal partner, and my mate wants the same. We regard each other as equally intelligent overall, however we each have our areas of expertise.

    I'm not certain why every time a study comes out that seeks to highlight differences between sexes, races, or cultures, people see this as bad! If it was not for studies in the 70's that showed how men and women learned things differently, the way things are taught in school would still heavily favor men. However, according to a Newsweek article about 2 years ago, because of these studies, women now have an upper hand in schools, and the drop out rate for boys is several times that of women. This is now showing itself in the rates of application to institutions of higher learning.

    Maybe we need to extract something from this research and use it in a way that advances BOTH sexes.

    By the way, note that the averages are interesting in that while on average both sexes score the same, men are generally either at the top OR the BOTTOM of the class.

  • Posted By: Punk_felsen @ 01/29/2008 7:56:09 AM

    maniacinc....no need to get offended...i wasn't attacking you. my emotional energy, (and poetic wit if i do say so) was aimed at the individuals who's brains got left in the dark ages where women were nothing more then cleaning supplies.

  • Posted By: ManiacInc @ 01/29/2008 7:43:42 AM

    Freudian Projection much? Punk_Felsen, save your animosity. Nobody is worth your emotional energy. Some people don't need to be dignified with a response. This is the equation as I see it: I work very hard. I have worked my hands to the bone for as long as I can remember, please don't mock me for that. I have been successful and I can support people that I care about. BimboBrain, I hope you achieve something really spectacular; or maybe somebody intelligent cares about you. Whichever it is, don't show your hand-- you'll mess up the problem.

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