A Facebook group blasted unproven allegations of sexual assault across campus. Is what happened at an Oregon college rough justice--or reputation assassination?
Comment: I am a male in my early 60's. Even in my college days I understood that a "no" at any time meant stop. There has been this sexist attitude by many men that once they start, they are unable to stop; that a woman is a "tease" or worse if she changes her mind. On the other hand, great damage can be done by reacting to rumor or innuendo by punishing remarks on social networking sites.
Comment: Yes, you are allowed to change your mind "midstream"
Yes, you can later tell someone you were raped and can expect them to help, BUT
You CANNOT jump onto a public forum such as Facebook and name your "rapist" while simultaneously showing no evidence, police report, rape kit or anything other than a "he said, she said".
The many similiar incidents that happen each day and the subsequent feeding frenzy that takes place by those who just pass along the accusations without getting any proof for themselves is alarming. Classic example of internet vigilantism and the damage it can cause.
Comment: b
Comment: @Samael-Wolf: If I make a choice and five minutes later I am being hit, choked, sworn at and gagged, I am then not allowed to "CHANGE HORSES IN MID STREAM"?!? I must simply accept my fate because I "initiated"? You're wondering "what kind of person initiates sex then changes her mind"???? The tell-tale language you use -- "what KIND of person", you say -- tells us everything about what "kind" of person you are: a sexist, violence-condoning, chauvanistic, pigeon-holing, nasty little excuse for a real man with a brain and one iota of compassion in his body. How dare you judge a girl who's been the victim of another jerk like you? How about YOU get sober and grow up, kiddie-- oh wait, it's too late -- you can't change personalities in mid stream.
Comment: Think about the person(s) that posted the Saw-Fox rape on Facebook. Should they have or have not posted the situattion? The internet is fast and used everyday by millions of people,and if you think that posting about rape is not going to get big, then you are flat down an idiot. There are alternitives to getting information around. For example, you could have a secret meeting with all the girls you want to tell and keep it inside the circle. They should have (while creating the post) thought about how big this could get and possibly the damage it was going to do. It's the internet; everybody can approach it and anybody can spread it.
Comment: I'm wondering what kind of person initiates sex then changes her mind while having sex ? Alcohol removes inhibitions , sure , but the personality remains. I believe this to be more of a day after revelation , the day when one has a hangover and says to themselves ," What the f**k did I do last night ?". Get sober and grow up kiddies, you cant change horses in mid stream.
G
Comment: I'm wondering what kind of person initiates sex then changes their mind while in the act ?
Comment: Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker - so James Thurber once wrote. Unfortunately, liquor in this case made everything worse. Shaw-Fox made a number of careless errors from inviting a coed to his room, to drinking, and he probably should have "just said no." His experience serves as a warning for young men everywhere. Discretion is really a wise idea. And if you absolutely must, before you start - make sure you make her sign a requistion form with 4 copies: one for you, one for her, one for your lawyer, and one for her lawyer.
Comment: Legally, someone inebriated cannot give consent. Hunter initiated sexual activity with a drunk man, incapable of giving consent.
Make of it what you will.
Comment: In America you are guilty even after you are proven innocent. What the sheep read on the internet and in the paper is REAL, especially Dr. Phill. Once branded, good luck trying to find a job or even moving from your home town. Forgiveness in this primarily Christian society is vanished, and has been replaced by a perverted sense of duty to ???Protect??? at any cost. This does not say much for acceptance, forgiveness and tolerance, the much touted phrase of the so called Christian Militia. Coexistence is the key to a strong society even when you don???t LIKE someone for their mistakes, this means everyone that has made bad judgments, even rapists or murders, as they have to live somewhere, or they will certainly not receive the support for better judgment in the future. In fact in a Christian society these are exactly the people that Jesus walked with to save. Or is that just in the Bible. Is it not God who takes vengeance and commands his followers to turn the other cheek? Perhaps society has lost its faith and no longer believes in God? Certainly as a Christian this woman was more concerned with vengeance than reporting this to the proper authorities, so that the accused could receive the help to change his ways.
Comment: you make too many assumptions. Primarily Christian society? Drunken college nights are when most girls get sexually abused by guys who put too much pressure on them... Guys can get taken advantaged of too but less frequently... Drunkeness, sexual immoral behavior, slander, hatred are elements of human depravity and shows their need for a forgiveness by God and one another (that I agree with).
On a side note, Christ died for ALL sinners in the world (John 3:16)... yes even the worst of them
(look at Paul in the Bible who killed Christians)
Comment: In America you are guilty even after you are proven innocent. What the sheep read on the internet and in the paper is REAL, especially Dr. Phill. Once branded, good luck trying to find a job or even moving from your home town. Forgiveness in this primarily Christian society is vanished, and has been replaced by a perverted sense of duty to ???Protect??? at any cost. This does not say much for acceptance, forgiveness and tolerance, the much touted phrase of the so called Christian Militia. Coexistence is the key to a strong society even when you don???t LIKE someone for their mistakes, this means everyone that has made bad judgments, even rapists or murders, as they have to live somewhere, or they will certainly not receive the support for better judgment in the future. In fact in a Christian society these are exactly the people that Jesus walked with to save. Or is that just in the Bible. Is it not God who takes vengeance and commands his followers to turn the other cheek? Perhaps society has lost its faith and no longer believes in God? Certainly as a Christian this woman was more concerned with vengeance than reporting this to the proper authorities, so that the accused could receive the help to change his ways.
Comment: you make too many assumptions here. Primarily Christian society? Most college campuses consist of this type of drama... On a side note, Christ obviously died so that the whole world might be saved (John 3:16)
yes even the worst of sinners... look at Paul in the Bible (he killed Christians)
Comment: Hey everyone, let's imagine that this girl was our sister or mother. Now let's imagine that the guy was our brother or father. Get it? People in our country could stand to learn the word SYMPATHY. Leave your prejudices and biases in your overstuffed closet with the rest of the baggage. Personally, it sounds like date rape to me. If a girl told me to stop, I would be offended and jump out of bed like it was on fire.
Comment: Hey everyone, let's imagine that this girl was our sister or mother. Now let's imagine that the guy was our brother or father. Get it? People in our country could stand to learn the word SYMPATHY. Leave your prejudices and biases in your overstuffed closet with the rest of the baggage. Personally, it sounds like date rape to me. If a girl told me to stop, I would be offended and jump out of bed like it was on fire.
Comment: They posted of information not proven to be true posted for all to see about someone clearly stating that they are guilty of doing committing a crime. Without the "alleged criminal" ever being arrested, presented before a judge and jury or convicted. They were his judge and jury. If he is guilty of rape, the woman should have went to the authorities. I no longer know whom to believe anymore. The Duke case and cases like Peterson(s) have taught me to wait until I have ALL OF THE FACTS and NOT JUST GO BY THE FIRST FEW DAYS OR MONTHS OF EITHER ONE IS SAYING. But with the latter being said, the women who posted the information should be sued. They are no different than than the Dick Cheney and his use of wiretapping. Our constitutional rights should and must be protected at all cost. We are all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law guided by a judge with a jury rendering a verdict--not a group of young women in dorm room with a laptop computer networking with others.
Comment: The same people who cavalierly defend people???s rights to trash reputations on line without recourse, the same people who cheer at universities and other public entities for taking action against people who must be presumed innocent without evidence when the alleged crime is a politically correct crime, are largely the same people who would hold our government to the very highest possible standard with respect to obtaining evidence in other crimes i.e. wiretapping people???s telephones and with respect to due process issues in crimes which are not on their politically correct agendas. I can certainly agree that we should absolutely work to ensure that no one???s rights to privacy, rights to a presumption of innocence or other due process rights are violated. I find it repulsive that the same kind of liberal thinking that can be so absolute with respect to these protections in some cases can be so blind to the application of the same principles when the cases touch upon their particular sensibility.
It is clear that many people believe that it is important to have their privacy, their innocence and their due process rights respected. In the end it really matters little if we lose those rights to an out of control Dick Cheney or to bands of vigilantes who believe so little in the value of those rights that they put on their masks and capes and accomplish in anonymity what no one would dare to do in the light of day. Either way the outcome is the same. We all lose.
Comment: Part 2: While I in no way advocate any part of what happened, nor the way this has unfolded, I would like to point out that there is in fact no proof of these allegations. Now, this is not to say that the creators of this facebook group had anything other than good intentions. Rape is scary and thought of rape alone is often enough to panic many. Jumping to concolusions, however, will solve nothing. For now and possibly forever we will probably not find out whether or not rape occured technically or in the mind of either person. We will also never know whether or not the creators of this facebook group had intentions to slander the young man or protect innocent young women from a percived threat. At the end of the day, all the damage that can be done has already been done, how is a large sum of money or degrading ourselves to poorly worded personal insults going to help make anything better? Is it constructive in any way? What does it do to ensure that this doesn't happen again? Maybe we should be talking about what to do in the future not debating the already-hashed-out past...
Comment: You are in fact posting about a fairly serious topic. In the future might you try to use better grammer and post better content than a 5 year who just saw Rambo and discovered the internet.
Part 2: While I in no way advocate any part of what happened, nor the way this has unfolded, I would like to point out that there is in fact no proof of these allegations. Now, this is not to say that the creators of this facebook group had anything other than good intentions. Rape is scary and thought of rape alone is often enough to panic many. Jumping to concolusions, however, will solve nothing. For now and possibly forever we will probably not find out whether or not rape occured technically or in the mind of either person. We will also never know whether or not the creators of this facebook group had intentions to slander the young man or protect innocent young women from a percived threat. At the end of the day, all the damage that can be done has already been done, how is a large sum of money or degrading ourselves to poorly worded personal insults going to help make anything better? Is it constructive in any way? What does it do to ensure that this doesn't happen again? Maybe we should be talking about what to do in the future not debating the already-hashed-out past...
Comment: I would like to start out with the fact that I in no way advocate the actions of any of the incolved parties at any time. I think that everything that occured was in poor taste and will create an unnecessarily bad taste in the proverbial mouth of everyone affacted. However, one of the things that makes this country great is the fact that we have the ability to state whatever we want so long as it is not slanderous or otherwise untruthlyfully defamitory. While what happened was in fact slander through and through, I don't personally believe that talking of "stupid bi**hes" getting "stream rollered" is constructive, beneficial or even worth the space on this websites comment board. If your going to respond to a news article you may want to consider using better spelling and content than a 5 year old who just saw Rambo.
Comment: wow thaTbishop wowman is a head case a real nancy grace protege ......the guy was never even arrested or charged so there ya go......bishop she WILL be sued and so will her friends that took part in the group ...just like the duke rape case the university had to pay out MILLIONS becuase of those professors who signed a letter against the duke la cross players those chicks are gonna PAY BIG TIME hahaha serves them right more of those stupid bit..ches should get stream rollered for this kind of garbage .
Comment: You don'at name the accuser why name the accused until proven gulty?
Comment: The comparison about a group of people passing notes to each others in front of others is ridiculous. If anything it's just the opposite, it's more like a group of people with large picket signs all sharing their own opinions. Can this be considered slander? Yes. This individual's personal and proffesional reputation is being ruined. Regardless of this individual's guilt or innocence for that matter, it's not our responsiblity to make that determination. As far as having reason to believe that this individual is a rapist, where's is the reason. At this point everything is heresay, there is no real evidence here. It's one person's word over another. I'm not saying that what she claims didn't happen but at this point nothing has been proven except for the fact that this man's name has been tarnished. Rape is a very real and sensitive subject. I went to college and I know, unfortunately, that this happens way too often.
Comment: Some of you need to come out of the stone ages...drinking doesn't stamp yes on your forehead. Whether their group constituted slander is debatble. The group is private in a social netowking site. Basically, like a group of people standing around passing notes to each other in front of others....you'd have a fight on your hands and then they could also prove they had reason to believe he was a rapist. If he's suing he'll be in civil court where burdens of proof are much lighter than in criminal court.
Anyway, read the damn story...she didn't come forward until pressed by the university which makes her story all that much more believable. Why would she make a false claim of rape to which she didn't plan on reporting anyway...some of you seriously lack logic skills. Also, the innocent until proven guilty might work in a courtroom but you can see where a lawyer can manipulate this story and create enough doubt. That doesn't mean it didn't happen ...if you don't think sexual assault happens a lot in college then you probably didn't go which shows through the undecuated responses I see.
Comment: The internet offers many ways to create a private group, if you really want it to be private. I hope she's charged with slander; maybe she'll learn something.
Not coming forward makes a charge less believable, not more. Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk. Why would she claim rape but not report it? It's much easier to make accusations when you don't have to face the accused. She was able to get revenge without proving his guilt - giving a newspaper interview, her friends posting her accusation as fact for the world to see. The woman won't give her name to a national news publication: is she afraid of the publicity she forced upon the man?
Innocent until proven guilty isn't a form of legal manipulation, it's a legal right. But it isn't a social standard. Employers frequently check job applicant's names online. The accuser and the woman who started the "group" have destroyed his life, and face no serious consequences.
Comment: Yikes, why is everyone continually blaming the victim? Why on earth WOULD she be lying? No one else would have known about them having sex until she said anything. And which of her friends would have called her out for having sex with a person whom she had previously had a sexual relationship with?
Only three percent of reported rape crimes are false (US Crime Report) which is about the same as all other crimes. And it has been shown countless times that everytime a female reports an acquiantance rape SHE is the one who is overwhelmingly bashed- so there is virtually no reason to make up such a fabrication.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that the University should have investigated the matter more, though I do approve the idea of a University trying to stop sexual assault on campus where it is occurs at alarming rates. But Shaw-Fox DOES deserve due process.
In the meantime everyone needs to stop assuming that girl is guilty.
Comment: Yikes, why is everyone continually blaming the victim? Why on earth WOULD she be lying? No one else would have known about them having sex until she said anything. And which of her friends would have called her out for having sex with a person whom she had previously had a sexual relationship with?
Only three percent of reported rape crimes are false (US Crime Report) which is about the same as all other crimes. And it has been shown countless times that everytime a female reports an acquiantance rape SHE is the one who is overwhelmingly bashed- so there is virtually no reason to make up such a fabrication.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that the University should have investigated the matter more, though I do approve the idea of a University trying to stop sexual assault on campus where it is occurs at alarming rates. But Shaw-Fox DOES deserve due process.
In the meantime everyone needs to stop assuming that girl is guilty.
Comment: It was only a matter of time before something like this story happened. Women, sometimes truthfully and sometimes not, have been crying rape without ever bothering to make a formal charge of the fact. And the reality is simple. A man is innocent of rape until proven guilty in a court of law. So, this is a case of women, not even actually connected to the event, passing judgment on something they don't know anything about. There's a word for that...
Slander.
There's no way they can hope to prove this man did what they accuse him of. After all, the girl (not woman) that is his accuser decided to not file a charge. Not even to make a report. She was upset that they had sex and he left to vomit. I'm sure most women would be a bit upset if they just had sex with a guy and he had to walk away to barf. Perhaps her claims that he was pushing her are true. Perhaps not. Funny thing about having sex... once you start, (and notice, in her own claim, they were already having sex before he started being forceful) it can be pretty difficult to know a person is saying "Please! Don't! Stop! " or "Please don't stop!" If she really didn't want to continue having sex with him... she could have been a bit more forceful than just quietly continuing to have sex with him. There's no evidence of rape, even from her own account. Only evidence of regret.
But, rape or no, again, the issue is really about the slander. A court of law can state this man is a rapist. But for a mob mentality to do so... in a manner that harms his reputation, costs him his education, and essentially devestates his life... no. That's simply wrong. It is, in all reality, rape. It's reputation rape. Such an act should be considered just as grivious as sexual rape. And, in this case, it seems there is plenty of evidence that it happened. Perhaps his reputaion was raped. Perhaps not. But this man is smart enough to file charges and press his case in court. Which is where it should be tried.
Comment: Things always go out our control,sometimes we have no idea about what we are doing.
That is life.
Comment: I am amazed that it was allowed to go this far. Why haven't the Facebook group girls been suspended for their defamatory actions, and it sounds as if the journalist of the paper needs to go back and research what journalism actually is. Whether Morgan-Shaw did or did not rape the big mouth acusser or not is no longer the primary issue, if she had acted in an intelligent way perhaps this wouldn't have happened. Also, why did the campus suspend this guy on her word alone? I agree, sue the pants of all of them.
Comment: I am amazed that it was allowed to go this far. Why haven't the Facebook group girls been suspended for their defamatory actions, and it sounds as if the journalist of the paper needs to go back and research what journalism actually is. Whether Morgan-Shaw did or did not rape the big mouth acusser or not is no longer the primary issue, if she had acted in an intelligent way perhaps this wouldn't have happened. Also, why did the campus suspend this guy on her word alone? I agree, sue the pants of all of them.
Comment: Ladies, ladies, ladies -- shame on you all!! In days of old, men would slander women on bathroom walls and in telephone booths, etc. It was ALWAYS hurtful, and usually not true. In recent years, we as a society have held men accountable for their actions, and rightfully so. Now, I believe, it is time for society to hold YOU accountable for YOUR actions. Slander comes to mind ... and attorneys ... hmmm, I believe you deserve everything Mr. Morgan-Shaw can get you for. WHAT were you NOT thinking?
Comment: This story highlights the most egregious example of character assassination I've ever read about. Mr. Morgan-Shaw should hire the best libel lawyer in America and sue the pants off the University, the alleged victim, the Facebook Group that libeled and defamed him with no evidence, and the Willamette newspaper that perpetrated the false accusations. This whole story is a cautionary tale of false victimization that is
Comment: Sounds a lot like the Duke Rape case to me. A rush to judgement by a bunch of femi-facists. Have any of the angry feminist groups in Duram published anapology yet?
Comment: This story highlights the most egregious character assassination incident I've ever encountered. Mr. Morgan-Shaw should find every libel and character defamation lawyer he can lay his hands on and sue the pants off of the University, the Facebook crowd who posted the character assassination story, the alleged victim, and that Willamette newspaper for publishing the garbage as well. This incident is disgraceful in a university setting.
Comment: By not going to a hospital to have a rape kit preformed and contacting the police to make a statement she has made it the we will never know whether or not she was date raped. I can almost understand her reluctance because she was drunk and scared that no one would believe her. Morgan Shaw-Fox's life is ruined and Caitlyn Bishop, not the alleged victim, is the reason. She and her girlfriends took it upon
themselves to set up a bulliten board on facebook makeing statements against this guy that may or may not be false. Now she's worried about being sued??? I just have to say she better either finish college and get
a high paying job or marry verrrrrry well. If someone is willing to sue McD's because their coffee was to hot ,
then you can be sure that someone is willing to sue over their reputation being torn to shreds. Hell, my 10 yr. old daughter knows that nothing is secret on the internet so why wouldn't a sophmore in college?
Comment: By not going to a hospital to have a rape kit preformed and contacting the police to make a statement she has made it the we will never know whether or not she was date raped. I can almost understand that because she was drunk and scared that no one would believe her. Morgan Shaw-Fox's life is ruined and Caitlyn Bishop is the reason. She and her girlfriends took it upon themselves to set up a bulliten board on facebook makeing statements against this guy that may or may not be false. Now she's worried about being sued??? I just have to say she better either finish college and get a high paying job or marry verrrrrry well. If someone is willing to sue McD's because their coffee was to hot , then you can be sure that soneone is willing to sue over their reputation being torn to shreds.
Comment: Not only sue Bishop for libel but the Williamette rag as well
Comment: I would sue Bishop for libel in a heartbeat along with all the other ppl who posted such to the the blog. Vigilante lynching in its finest form, posting "privately"...right.
Comment: What makes all of you think that this girl is telling the truth? She may have willingly had sex and then regretted it later. Then she may have told a friend about it and had to keep up appearances after the story got out of control. How many men are in jail because a woman lied through her teeth about being raped? More than you can imagine. These men are automatically believed to be guilty before a trial. Their lives and reputations are irretrievably ruined and many spend decades in jail only to be proven innocent. I have three sons. This could happen to anyone's child. What if he was you son or brother or nephew? All a woman has to do is say the word. This situation should have been adjudicated through the court system. The school convicted this young man without a trial. I'm not saying he's innocent. I'm not saying he's guilty either. The bottom line is that no one knows what really happened except the two of them and GOD. If she's lying, I hope she gets thrown under the jail for eternity just like so many other innocent people because it will mean that she had absolutely no regard for another human being's life. And lest ye hang men try to judge me, let me say for the record that I am not a man, I have never been raped, I have never accused anyone of rape, I don't know any rapists, I am not a radical or a rapist sympathizer. I just have common sense. Stop convicting people before you know the facts.
Comment: What makes all of you think that this girl is telling the truth? She may have willingly had sex and then regretted it later. Then she may have told a friend about it and had to keep up appearances after the story got out of control. How many men are in jail because a woman lied through her teeth about being raped? More than you can imagine. These men are automatically believed to be guilty before a trial. Their lives and reputations are irretrievably ruined and many spend decades in jail only to be proven innocent. I have three sons. This could happen to anyone's child. What if he was you son or brother or nephew? All a woman has to do is say the word. This situation should have been adjudicated through the court system. The school convicted this young man without a trial. I'm not saying he's innocent. I'm not saying he's guilty either. The bottom line is that no one knows what really happened except the two of them and GOD. If she's lying, I hope she gets thrown under the jail for eternity just like so many other innocent people because it will mean that she had absolutely no regard for another human being's life. And lest ye hang men try to judge me, let me say for the record that I am not a man, I have never been raped, I have never accused anyone of rape, I don't know any rapists, I am not a radical or a rapist sympathizer. I just have common sense. Stop convicting people before you know the facts.
Comment: obviously this girl didnt want to have sex AFTERWORDS but it seems to be clear that she initiated the event and enjoyed the event as it began unfolding... im sick of these drunk b*tches who think its oaky to claim rape AFTER THE FACT when they have consensual sex at the tiem
it is completely hypocritcal that when 2 drunk people have sex... only the woman can decide later that it shouldnt have happened and is rape and only the guy can be punished
Comment: i have both a daughter and a son, so i have two concerns. but mostly my concern is JUSTICE has not been met here. by not going forward to the police, this woman and ALL the so called do-gooders have deliberately
obfuscated the truth of the matter, that either one person is lying or one is guilty. its up for the courts to determine this. she should have gone to her parents for help, then to the police. i personally would have had to be restrained, most likely. however even i agree this is totally the wrong way, folks. get a grip.
Comment: Minekandi- No, not "any" of us could be in this guy's shoes. I am a female, and a mother, and I would hope that my son would never put himself in this position. I will never understand why a guy would want to sleep with a girl who is pass out drunk...what fun is that? Do you know this girl personally or her story?
All people respond to rape in different ways. I don't know who is telling the truth in this situation, but I"m sure that the college has it's own judicial system (most do) which most likely reviewed the case and found enough evidence to suspend the young man. Just because criminal charges haven't been brought yet does not mean that the guy in the story is innocent.
Also, why would a drunken guy NOT use a condom? No, he might not PLAN to get the sperm out of her but he definitely might think "hey I'm drunk but not so drunk that I want to get this chick pregnant or catch an STD". I'm sorry that you have the experience of being raped, and I'm sorry that you disapprove of the manner in which this young lady handled the situation, but that does not make the young man any more innocent or make her an attention seeking brat.
Comment: Most colleges do NOT have anything resembling a judicial system. What they have is a council, which quite often, has dictatorial power to pass judgment, regardless of any facts. They are no different than a "court" of public opinion, except that they have real power to destroy a person's life. Morgan-Shaw should sue the college for every penny. It should be named after him once he's finished.
As for why a drunken guy would not use a condom? Because he's drunk. Duh! He also KNEW her. Perhaps he's guilty. Perhaps he's not. but, that's for a jury to decide. Not you. And yes, because criminal charges have not been brought... it DOES mena exactly, that in the eyes of the law at least, he's innocent. He hasn't even been charged with a crime, so he is innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty. That this young woman did not file charges... EVER... says quite a bit about her true thoughts on his and her actions of that night.
You might, as a mother, hope your son would never put himself in such a position. Face facts. He will. Or he already has. So would your daughter. You say "sleep with a girl that is pass out drunk". But, she herself said she was completely conscious. And that she only was upset when he left to GO THROW UP. He left to puke, and THAT'S when she decided perhaps she didn't want sex. Note to the ladies... if you have already had sex... completed the intercourse... and THEN decide you didn't like it... that's not called rape. It's called slut-remorse.
Comment: Ladies and Gentleman, we are all adults here. Any of us could be in this guys shoes. We live in a world where the law says that you are not guilty until proven otherwise. This sounds like a common case of an attention loving brat taking the punk way out of an adult situation. Did she really need the entire college/world behind her instead of allowing the evidence to speak for her? A DRUNKEN individual is not coherent enough to think ???Let me put on a condom" or "oh dam I just raped this chic let me get my sperm out of her". I know first hand what rape feels like and I know that you either TELL or DON'T TELL. There is no in between. The letter to the college officials was a cop put. We don't even know if he slept with her. It's her word against his and if he would have done this to her, no one would care. How many times we have jumped on the band wagon for a cause only to find out the driver was taking us down the wrong path. Bush can feed me crap but a chic that was not women enough to handle the situation appropriately gets no respect from me. Let pray that she is telling the truth because if she is not, even if he sues her his name is DESTROYED!
Comment: So many of your comments are the reason why so many women are scared to report being raped. It's so sad. Women don't think that officials or the public will believe that it actually happened. You need to wake up and open your eyes and realize that these things DO happen. You all say you doubt that it really happened and what if he's actually innocent? Well maybe he is, but how about letting this thing play out? If it actually happened and he did assault her then he should be punished. And if it turns out that it didn't happened the way that they're telling it, then that will be dealt with.
Comment: Umm..They didn't know about the News Feed? To me, that sounds like a complete and total lie. On their own profiles it shows their News Feed.And you can quite simply delete any posts you don't want others to see. And you can also make the group private, where others can not join unless the Admins. of the group allow them in.To me this sounds like a spiteful ex-girlfriend out for blood
Comment: Umm..They didn't know facebook publishes a News Feed? More like they didn't care.I am an active member of facebook and if those girls really wanted to keep it a secret, they could have deleted that 'story' from the News Feed. i don't know,but it sounds like a spiteful ex girlfriend to me
Comment: I have my doubts that this story is the truth. Meanwhile, there's no way to prove who is innocent and who is guilty. In one way, I can see that the young woman thinks she's been raped. On the other, I can also see that both of them were drinking heavily ( "she said that she instigated" the sexual encounter), things got out of hand and she decided not to go through with it. Whom do we believe? And who had the right to post this crap on Facebook? It went out to literally millions of people. What if it's not true??? Are these people ready to assume responsibility for ruining lives? There isn't enough money in the world to "settle" this lawsuit, guys.
Comment: And this from a law school, yes, that is what Lewis and Clark is known for. These women should be ashamed of themselves!
Comment: And this from a law school, and that is what Lewis and Clark is known for. These women should be ashamed of themselves.
Comment: Who is to actually say that this guy did anything? Is there any proof that the incident happened? He may be COMPLETELY innocent and no one would care because it is always about the "girl." I am sorry but the truth is some women like the attention they get if they accuse another of doing something. Also they can be the meanest most horrible human beings on the planet. I have a very good friend who was accused of the same exact thing with which he was ENTIRELY innocent and it RUINED his life. The whole town turned against him because this "helpless" female decided that since he didn't want her, she would make him pay. Has anyone here ever seen "Atonement?"
Comment: this is a load of crap!!! I am so sick of these girls crying rape in the heat of the moment or should i say at the point of entry. You went there on your own accord and now you wanna holla rape. Both of you engaged in foolish sex and now you want to be absolved of your guilt by crying rape and making him look like a monster.. He is not a rapist and you are not a slut. You were both having foolish sex. Both of you learn from your follish actions and don't do it again!
Comment: "Fair game?" Are you implying that alcohol consumption prior to rape sanctions such a reprehensible action? After a few drinks, does one suffer sudden amnesia with regards to emotions or desires? Personally, while drinking, I have an EXTREMELY clear sense of whether I "want to" or not. Seeing as the woman in question remembers the event occurring, it is unlikely that she would have no memory of what her feelings were as the accused forced himself upon her, despite being asked to stop. Giving rapists a get out of jail free card when they attack intoxicated women because memories aren't crystal clear (on either side) is a terrible, terrible notion to even suggest.
Comment: Neither the girl, or the guy we're using their brains! You don't text message someone, who is as drunk as you are, and get something going with said drunked person, and then push them away. Don't text message, Don't invite him over, don't, or start with foreplay. And what was he thinking? Screwing around with someone who had dumped him before? Did he think that she was clear thinking? Sorry if but this is not about the law or rights. It's about two stuoid people who drank too much, and didn't give a rip about the other one. Like true human beings do.
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Comment: If the allegations are true, he deserves to have his name run through the mud. I always say, don't do anything that will embarass you if everyone else finds out! And just because you were drunk does not mean you did not know what you were doing.
Comment: Winston, if you'd done more than skim that Willamette Week story, you'd see that Morgan Shaw-Fox refused a follow-up interview with Beth Slovic to give his version of events. In fact, did you even bother to contact Slovic at all? If you're reprinting "Beth Slovic is a piece of s--- journalist" and other accusations without trying to get her response, then you're no better than the Facebook assassins, and not much of a journalist yourself.
Here's a link to the original story (since you also didn't bother to provide it): http://wweek.com/editorial/3409/
It's far more balanced than you imply--and better reported than this piggyback piece.
Comment: Shaw-Fox gave an interview. He said he was insensitive. He said he didn't rape Hunter. What was the follow-up interview for? Did Slovic want the Penthouse Letters version from him, too? Did she not do enough research on his "sexual and hot vibe"? It must have been that charisma which forced the drunken Hunter to text him, come to his suite, go in his bedroom, get naked, take off his clothes, and give him a blow job. Of course, none of those actions matter. But tangling his fingers in her hair and thrusting -- that's wrong. That's *rape*.
There is one foolproof way to end a blow job. Bite down.
"Choke on it"? Drunken sex talk. Read Penthouse Letters.
I loved where Slovic wrote: "Hunter was encouraged to stop blaming herself". Is that what Hunter was doing when she wrote "You deserve to have your filthy, disrespectful ass kicked out of this school, you insolent son of a ***??? in the school paper?
The article is dressed-up hate mail. Lots of "examples" portraying Shaw-Fox as obsessed with sex, lots of "virginal good girl" info on Hunter.
Comment: I hope that those that participated in defaming this young man are sued and taught the lesson of 'innocent until proven guilty.' As well, the college should get a spanking in the courts for persecuting him before any court decision. They should not arbitrarily be allowed to expel a student on allegation alone. I am so sick of the general population, the media and institutions being allowed to dictate consequences for something that is not proven! Our legal system is supposed to be founded on innocent until proven guilty and any punishment should NOT be given until guilt is given as a verdict.
Comment: If they were both drunk, then whatever happened is fair game. Everyone knows this - there's no way for anyone, including probably the girl herself, to know whether she "wanted to" or not. It would be different if he had been sober.
Comment: This may take the cake on ignorant stupid immoral statements. Try that defense in court "we were both drinking your honor so everythings ok right?" ....wow I hope they don't let you out on parole after you get caught.
Comment: I hope that those that participated in defaming this young man are sued and taught the lesson of 'innocent until proven guilty.' As well, the college should get a spanking in the courts for persecuting him. They should not arbitrarily be allowed to expel a student on allegation alone. I am so sick of the general population, the media and institutions being allowed to dictate consequences for something that is not proven!
Comment: Chances are the school has their own campus judicial review board made up of students and faculty. This is probably the process used to determine that the young man is in need of being suspended. If someone were suspected of murdering a fellow student, would you expect that person to be allowed to remain on campus for hte upcoming semester?
Comment: The lynching of male students is equal to the filming of sex activity and posting it on the internet. All is fair in love and war.
Comment: Ha! That last exchange was amazing. Just how repressed does one have to be to make that comment? I'll bet you cash your father has a mistress and your mother still doesn't know about it. Your husband has his favorite porn sites, whether or not you want to believe it...and your son is still going to dream of beautiful naked girls. Desire is desire is desire. It's 2008, save your therapy bill and let people have desires and cultivate their lessons accordingly. Repression breads contention.
Comment: No, viewing sex activity is fun for everyone.
Comment: Yuck. Viewing it is repulsive. X rated anything should be illegal.
Comment: Wow. Repressed much?
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