Cheap Shots, But Valuable?

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  • Posted By: BA-CT @ 01/25/2008 11:34:16 PM

    I find extraordinary to read comments about the media being behind Obama or Obama whinning about being bullied. We are just coming back from 8 years of "you're with me or your against me" politics leading to reckless foreign politics and even more reckless economic policies (Tom Delay selling the legislature to the highest bidder ??? worse than renting the Lincoln bedroom). Does the democratic party faithful feel that we need to endorse Hillary and do the same all over again? To achieve what? More partisan politics? Do these people seeking confrontation for the sake of an ego trip remember what happened under Bill Clinton (congress turned Republican because the Clintons could not work with the other side ... remember when the government was shut down?). Hillary will never be able to work across the other side ...her "track record" as a Senator was not to take wishy-washy positions knowing she would run for office (note to real Democrats ... the Clinton topedoed Gore's ticket and then Kerry's campaign to help launch her (hence the tension between the DNC and the Clinton clan). I am nauseated by people who think that Barrack Obama's attitude demonstrate he is weak and inexperienced. He is not the bar-brawling type and understands that Arkansas-like politics (also known as "doing whatever it takes to get elected") would derail a centrist agenda which will finally achieve meaningful legislative reforms. One example ... Clinton cannot achieve the lofty promise of a single payer social security system. She tried once and failed when she was the first lady. The better option is to propose a new system which would emerge from the existing one... basically the Barrack Obama plan)

    This post does not have the ambition to turn partisan, testosterone laden, passive aggressive supporters into reasonable people. I just feel sad we are all under the same roof.

    Hillary vs. McCain? Mark my word ??? McCain will be our next president ??? and it will not necessary be that bad.

  • Posted By: Chelton @ 01/25/2008 11:09:46 PM


    Like many people, I decided to support Senator Obama because I believe that he has a unique ability to bring Democrats and Republicans together to solve our major domestic and international challenges and will best restore our image abroad. I also believe that 1) Hillary is the only presidential candidate in either party with the power to unite the Republican party; 2) that she fails to attract the independent and new voters who have decided the past two elections; and 3) that Obama's endorsements from swing state governors and senators reflect their belief in his ability to win their states and their fear that she would lose AND compromise other Democrat's chances with her divisiveness. BUT, if Democrats disagreed with me, and like the Republicans running Bob Dole against Bill Clinton, decided to bet on an establishment, losing horse, I planned to work on her campaign to try my best and defeat them. However, over the past week, I've become so demoralized that not only will I not work on her campaign, but I will have to force myself to vote for her. Shame on you for destroying my hopes for our party!!!

    • Posted By: RJ Shearer @ 01/25/2008 11:14:11 PM

      Dearest Chelton: One thing is for ceratin about the American people: They do not like it when they are being spoon fed a sugar coated candidate for too long. Eventually Obama will not be able to take cover behind the press. And if you think that the Republican attack machine won't chew up Obama and spit him back out should he be the nominee then you are living in a fairy tale of your own. Has all of these supposed conservatives who say that they could vote for Obama looked at his position s on matters of policy? Obama is left of Hillary for petes sake. I don't buy that propoganda for one minute that true blue conservatives will vote for Obama anymore than they would for Clinton. Give me a break with all of this nonsense. This isn't some Disney movie.

      • Posted By: wcamacho @ 01/25/2008 11:31:28 PM

        It has been a long since we had hope in this country, and hope is recognized as a good thing, unless of course, when Billary got scared that such message was getting people excited and voting for the one that offer such hope. So she had to take it to gutter politics, in the old fashion way, the way the Bill all about, the one that stood in front of the camera and pointed the finger at the every American citizen and told the lie: "I did not have sex with that woman". Billary's message is no different that the message of fear from the republicans, she uses the same tactics. Scare us into thinking that the sky will comedown on us if we elect Obama because of his so called lack of experience or to scare us because he did 5 hours of work for someone that at the time was in good standing with the community. But you say that she is the best candidate because she can get down and dirty with the republicans, but why she had to run to hubby to do the dirty work for her, is that the way that she plans to run the White House? Is Billy going to have to make all the tough decisions? So to all of you Billary supporters, keep of your quest to coronate another Clinton, because all you'll get in the general election will be a republican, because I know for a fact that most moderates and independents, such as I, will rather have a McCain in office that Billary. So go ahead and try to win the battle and inevitably loose the war.

  • Posted By: 1950democrat @ 01/25/2008 8:46:39 PM

    Hillary has been taking the high road all along, descending briefly to each level she's been attacked on. At the debate she was talking about issues; Obama took it to a more personal level by saying he had lived with those issues while she was a lawyer on Walmarts' board; so she returned the 'lawyer' shot by saying Obama at that time had done work for Rezko the 'slumlord'.
    After racism was brought in by distorting her MLK point (supported by many Black leaders since) and Bill's 'fairy tale' term, then she went after Obama's ambiguous statements on Reagan and 'party of ideas'.
    If this gets up and the comment string is still rational, I may come back with more details.

    • Posted By: Linoq @ 01/25/2008 11:27:45 PM

      Which country do you live? Hillary has been the most dirty campaign after Bush/Rove's campaign. AS Bill Clinton said: Give me a break!

  • Posted By: Linoq @ 01/25/2008 11:25:41 PM

    Politics should be held accountable for misleading and lying. They should go to court and pay fines. The media should point out more buntly these "Cheap Shots" ,and start a movement to change this view that you have to get dirty and play dirty, cheating your way into power. What can you expect from the leadership when the elected leader cheated his/her way into power? The easy answer is: exactly what we have today with our actual president.
    I hope a new polished and new democracy may emerge, a democracy where such low acts by the politicians just to get elected are not seen as part of the game but as offensive to the future of our country. I just hope some day in the future we will look back and see how much we changed and try to understand how people could tolerate such low level and dirty political process. I hope Obama is elected to help start this change as soon as possible.

  • Posted By: Val Thorpe @ 01/25/2008 11:25:22 PM

    Maybe voters want to be part of something good and noble again. Maybe when a voter sees a leader making a cheap shots like this they think, "I would scold my child for behaving this way. "

    Far from an asset, Romney and Clinton will find that America is sick of it. That's why people are turning to Huckabee, McCain and Obama.

  • Posted By: Val Thorpe @ 01/25/2008 11:24:42 PM

    Maybe voters want to be part of something good and noble again. Maybe when a voter sees a leader making a cheap shots like this they think, "I would scold my child for behaving this way. "

    Far from an asset, Romney and Clinton will find that America is sick of it. That's why people are turning to Huckabee, McCain and Obama.

  • Posted By: moongirl16 @ 01/25/2008 11:23:31 PM

    It doesn't matter how many good ideas they have if they can't get Congress to work together. I just cannot imagine a Hillary Clinton presidency bringing anything but more fighting and constant drama. She is just too polarizing. She even brags in her speeches about how much experience she has at fighting the Republicans and how she is ready to take them on. I'm tired of the fighting. I want a president who can rise above the fray and get things done.

  • Posted By: seegreen @ 01/25/2008 10:49:35 PM

    I see no hope or inspiration in Obama. As a matter of fact, I see him as noboby that has done nothing and does not stand out at all.

    • Posted By: progressive1 @ 01/25/2008 11:17:31 PM

      Perhaps an Optometrist would help?

  • Posted By: progressive1 @ 01/25/2008 11:15:19 PM

    I can assure you of one thing- the "cheap shots" will pay off for the REPUBLICANS in November! Obama 08!

  • Posted By: wcamacho @ 01/25/2008 11:14:32 PM

    As an independent voter I usually lean towards the candidate that makes more sense and for disclosure sake, I did not voted for Bill Clinton or Georgy Bush, so given the present situation of the candidates in their respective parties, I will not vote for any of the republicans, but I sure the hell will not vote for Billary Clinton, I think the she is a lier and in general I distrust the woman, I can vote for Obama or Edwards, but not for Billary.

  • Posted By: son77 @ 01/25/2008 11:12:37 PM

    What is this spin machine or attack machine? This country is in dire needs to have a civilized honest person as president. Do not divide this country by race or gender. We already have lot of other divisions. There is no white America, black America, red America, blue America, or Asian America???there is only United States of America. Hey, people, please come to your senses, and cast your ballot for the best person. Please do not look at color, creed, gender, or race. Less experience with good judgments is far far better than experience without morality

  • Posted By: rdepontb @ 01/25/2008 11:11:19 PM

    I am awfully tired of these reporters all jumping on the Clintons. It is especially galling hearing it from the seasoned reporters I have long admired, like Eleanor Clift and Chris Matthews. What the hell? Is this politics or let's-play-smiling-dunces? Don't we want someone who can take it to unfair businesses, governments, and industries that have been raking our citizens for years? I really admire Hillary's determination, her articulateness, and especially her intelligence. She's a hard worker and bright as they come. Both Clintons could live the life of extravagance, giving just a few speeches a year---they could travel the world at will, enjoying the very good life. I think we are fortunate to have people of this caliber looking out for us, not someone hand-picked at a series of fancy steak-house meetings, not someone expected to give good return on their investment. Hillary, hats off to you and yours. Onward! ReneD, Bel Air, MD

  • Posted By: Chelton @ 01/25/2008 11:08:49 PM


    Like many people, I decided to support Senator Obama because I believe that he has a unique ability to bring Democrats and Republicans together to solve our major domestic and international challenges and will best restore our image abroad. I also believe that 1) Hillary is the only presidential candidate in either party with the power to unite the Republican party; 2) that she fails to attract the independent and new voters who have decided the past two elections; and 3) that Obama's endorsements from swing state governors and senators reflect their belief in his ability to win their states and their fear that she would lose AND compromise other Democrat's chances with her divisiveness. BUT, if Democrats disagreed with me, and like the Republicans running Bob Dole against Bill Clinton, decided to bet on an establishment, losing horse, I planned to work on her campaign to try my best and defeat them. However, over the past week, I've become so demoralized that not only will I not work on her campaign, but I will have to force myself to vote for her. Shame on you for destroying my hopes for our party!!!

  • Posted By: drsyko1 @ 01/25/2008 11:02:25 PM

    I am so tired of the Obama campaign acting like he is the 5 year old victim of a bully. Poor baby, someone hit you on the playground and now you have to whine and get all of these other people to defend you. Politics is like boxing???you???re going to get hit and you???d better know how to hit back. Hillary knows how to do both. And you???d better know how to keep on doing that until one of you is down for good???I also believe that Clinton is much more capable of doing that right through the general election than Obama. You???d also better have more than just some nice dreams if you are going to be a true leader of the free world. Inspiration will not do it???the old adage that success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration is true. I have yet to see Obama break a sweat about anything. Hillary has actual defined policies, which I have yet to hear from Barack. All this talk of ???it???s not fair??? blah, blah, blah . . .since when is politics or any other single thing in life fair?? Any of the Republicans will absolutely bash his head in if this is how Barack responds to any challenge to his record. If he wins the nomination, and the Republicans start to skin him alive, do you really think whining about fairness or not distorting your record is going to get a win in the general election?? At this point all it does is make him look weak and ineffective???I can only imagine what it will do in November. (And I do find it a little scary that Obama apparently didn???t know that Canada doesn???t have a president???see below)
    And let???s get some actual FACTS in here The following are quotes taken directly from the site factcheck.org. Barack has made unfair and untrue accusations and has also been misleading about his own record. A politician trying to make him/herself look good and the other guys look bad . . .shocking!! I really hope people will get over all the whining and actually start looking at which candidate can actually get some things done. Try looking at some actual facts and using some critical thinking skills. If you still come to the conclusion that Obama is your candidate, then at least it will be because of some rational thought instead of all of this ridiculous and irrational emoting.

    ???Obama has responded with an ad that makes a half-true accusation that Clinton "championed" NAFTA. We find that both claims are misleading and that the candidates are, in fact, making mountains of molehills.???
    ???Obama???s claim that Clinton flip-flopped on NAFTA is half-true. She did change her position, but she did so long before she began running for president.???


    ???Obama falsely denied endorsing single-payer government health insurance when he first ran for the Senate, saying, "I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer." But in fact he gave a speech in 2003 saying, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program."

    • Posted By: drsyko1 @ 01/25/2008 11:08:05 PM

      More from factcheck.org (it wouldn't all fit in the first post--please go to their site for complete analysis)

      ???Obama's ad touting his health care plan quotes phrases from newspaper articles and an editorial, but makes them sound more laudatory and authoritative than they actually are.
      ??? It attributes to The Washington Post a line saying Obama's plan would save families about $2,500. But the Post was citing the estimate of the Obama campaign and didn't analyze the purported savings independently.
      ??? It claims that "experts" say Obama's plan is "the best." "Experts" turn out to be editorial writers at the Iowa City Press-Citizen ??? who, for all their talents, aren't actual experts in the field.
      It quotes yet another newspaper saying Obama's plan "guarantees coverage for all Americans," neglecting to mention that, as the article makes clear, it's only Clinton's and Edwards' plans that would require coverage for everyone, while Obama's would allow individuals to buy in if they wanted to.
      Obama's Historical Revision
      Sen. Obama rewrote history when he defended his controversial remarks about invading Pakistan if necessary to eliminate al Qaeda.
      Obama: I did not say that we would immediately go in unilaterally. What I said was that we have to work with [Pakistan???s President Pervez] Musharraf.


      Obama is referring to an Aug. 1 policy address, which left a much tougher impression. Then, he said in general that ???I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America.??? As for Pakistan specifically, he said that if elected he would go in unilaterally to ???take out??? al Qaeda if the U.S. has ???actionable intelligence??? and Musharraf refuses to act:
      Obama (Aug. 1): I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.
      In those remarks Obama clearly did say he would go in, and do it unilaterally, under the conditions stated. Whether or not that would occur ???immediately??? is a matter of interpretation, but the nature of ???actionable intelligence??? is such that it can become quickly outdated and must be acted upon very quickly.
      And by saying in general that he ???will not hesitate??? to use military force against terrorists, Obama left the impression that he wouldn???t wait long for Musharraf to act first, if he consulted him at all.
      The "President of Canada"?Obama also stumbled by referring to a nonexistent world leader:Obama: I would immediately call the president of Mexico, the president of Canada to try to amend NAFTA Canada, of course, has no president. It operates under a parliamentary system, and the head of

  • Posted By: Hemersam @ 01/25/2008 10:56:05 PM

    Go, Hillary!
    Hemersam
    Garland, Texas

  • Posted By: solarpower @ 01/25/2008 10:39:18 PM

    How is Eleanor tearing the Clintons down? If anything she is giving credence to the Clintons' politics-as-usual attack-tics. This is exactly what the people are sick and tired of and what Barack Obama is running against. Cheap shots should not work! They should be recognized as cheap shots and denigrated as such. This is the only sincere and moral response to despicable tactics. It's sad that the Clintons have done it, but raise your hand if you didn't see it coming.

    The ClintonS are the distorters and liars, and while I will swallow and vote for Hillary in the general if I must, Obama is the honest one here. He is the one who can heal this nation. Politics shold not be about fighting, attacks, punches or any other violent metaphor. I know it IS now, but it need not be. All we hafta do is choose correctly. We always get the leaders we deserve.

    • Posted By: RJ Shearer @ 01/25/2008 10:47:47 PM

      Obama has taken many cheap shots durring this campaign. It is just that Clinton does not constantly whine about them and the press does not come to her defense. Obama's message is a good one, so let him fight for it instead of having the media fight his battles. I can't vote for Obama until I see that he does not need the constantt protection of the press and media.

  • Posted By: DMVL @ 01/25/2008 10:47:28 PM

    Obama didn't start the fight. The Clintons did. If they're taking heat, then they deserved it. All of it. Frankly, after watching all the Clinton cheap shots all week, Hillary will never get my vote. Even in the general election.

  • Posted By: johiobo @ 01/25/2008 10:41:06 PM

    Why do most of you in the media not give the Clintons balanced coverage? Why is Obama and his compaign alloweed to have it both ways? Obama started the attack. What was Hilary supposed to do? She did the right thing. If Obama can't stand the heart, he should get out of the kitchen. Hilary linton is Democratic party's hope of getting back the whitehouse.

  • Posted By: RJ Shearer @ 01/25/2008 10:36:02 PM

    OK enough with the press codling Obama. We do not need a whiner in chief. Hillary was right to call out Obama on his remarks about Reagan and the republican ideas comment. The press has decided to decipher exactly what Obama meant by his remarks and even go further by letting Obama tell them what he really said. Where is the critical analysis by the press? Where is the examination of the record? Ridiculous. The truth is that Obama made those remarks to curry favor with the Conservative editorial board at the Reno Gazette (and it worked as he got the endorsement). If Clinton had made those exact remarks there would be no such "context" to consider as the press puts it. The headline would be that Clinton will say anything to get elected including kissing the backside of a conservative editorial board. The press can tell me all they want to what it is that Obama really said in "the context of things" but I'm not buying it. Why? Because I listened to the tape and it certainly sounded to me like Obama was puffing up the Republicans and decrying the Clinton years. Since when does the press act as a surrogate for a presidential candidate anyway? I always knew that FOX would shill for their like minded conservatives, but never could I have imagined that the so called main stream media would decide to circle their wagons (and spin) around one democratic candidate while pointing their arrows at another. My goodness, Obama is a big boy and is running for president. Please let him tell us what he means and let him be the one to counter punch. If Obama needs this much help from the press to become president then who needs him.

  • Posted By: ladyny @ 01/25/2008 9:52:14 PM

    We'll see who has the last laugh. For the first time in 20 years I've been inspired to get involved in the process because of Barack. He inspires people to get involved, as it should be. The last thing I want is to see the school marmish Hillary wagging her finger and scolding us for four years. I decided that if Obama doesn't get the nominatin that I won't voite in the general election. You pundits, with your clout and big salaries find this all very amusing. It's interesting to see how Chris Mathiews changed his tune in the last few weeks. His wife must have refused to sleep with him, unless he toned down his rant against Hillary. Hillary only stayed with Bill because she wanted to run for President. There's no love between them, olnly their shared love of power.

    • Posted By: bethany617 @ 01/25/2008 10:35:48 PM

      I agree. Barack Obama does inspire people. He is a unique individual who possess the qualities that only good leaders have. He is head and shoulders above the rest.

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