Video Killed The Rock Star

There's just as many talented people in this particular generation, but the compromises are too great. The constant message to kids--particularly kids who are starting new bands--is: this is really not that important. The way you look is more important than your song. Being an individual? That's too much of a problem. Act like you're an individual, but don't sacrifice like an individual. Where's everybody putting their fingers in their ears? When you water down the basic image of what it means to be a rock star into something that's tattoo-ready and MTV-friendly, where's the rebellion? There isn't any. Rebellion is doing something where people like me have our fingers in our ears going, "This is s---." We're so blind, we don't even see the genius.

Is anyone on that trajectory?

No. Radiohead is constantly compared to Pink Floyd. I don't think that's a comparable comparison. If you're Radiohead and you're told now that you're the Pink Floyd, what else do you have to shoot for? You sort of retreat into your own vision. When Pink Floyd had "Dark Side of the Moon," it told someone like me, "Wow, you can be yourself and you can have all the success in the world." Where is that earth-shattering moment where everything changes? The Beatles did it. Elvis did it. U2 did it. Nirvana did it. Is this generation any less talented? Are they more into their cars or something? No. There's no reason to step into that light because there's no reward there for anybody.

When you were beginning, how did you measure success?

In 1988, when the band started, success was playing the Metro [in Chicago], which was 1,000 people. Sonic Youth played the Metro, Dinosaur Jr. If you were on that level, you were successful. The idea that you could reach a point where you would play the Riviera, which was 3,500, or the Aragon, was unfathomable. Much less arenas. Much less be on MTV more than once on "120 Minutes." So, in 1988, if you were on "120 Minutes" and you sold out the Metro, that was it. That was Dinosaur Jr. You were the top. When the sales came in with Nirvana, everything changed. In 1990, I think there were seven alternative-rock stations in America; now there's something like 90 and most are corporately owned.

The notion of "selling out," licensing songs, how has that changed? Fifteen years ago, that seems like it would have been unacceptable. Career death. Is all this completely different now?