I Am Woman, Hear Me Snore

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  • Posted By: 4573 @ 01/30/2008 12:14:55 AM

    I never read such lunacy in all my life! Hillary Clinton is smart and an extremely hard worker who can turn this country right around. Women don't like Hilary because women don't like successful women; it is just that simple. I'm black and I'm a woman and I can tell you first hand that when women smell success on another woman's breath, they go for the juggular in attempts to choke her before she takes her next breath. Women can't bear to see other women do well. Being educated, I can tell you that as far as the black vote, black people are voting for Obama just because he is black. I'm not voting for Obama because I see right through his elitist, arrogant ass. I know too many successful black men just like him; they can talk the talk, but cannot lead the walk . . . just a mess. He's playing every white person for a fool with all the bull he is saying. Yes, he is a great speaker, yes, he has a vision, but what this country is missing is competent day-to-day management and authority on the running of a government. A visionary and schmoozer makes a great Secretary of State. Hillary seems lilke a hard-working multi-tasker who has the heart to look out for all people in this country. Hillary's plans have been clear from day one, and here it is months into the campaign and I have yet to figure out exactly what Obama plans to do for this country. Obama says anything and will do anything to get white people to like him cause he know most black people will vote for him anyway. It's called playing the game folks; it's what us black folke do to become successful in white corporate politics. All I want to know is why nobody has asked Obama to comment on the current conditions in Kenya (his father's country). Well, I will tell you why . . . Because white people see no need to bring up black issues and "destroy the fantasy" when they believe that they see a successful black person who seems similar in background to themselves. Inaddition to that, putting black issues on the table will instantly make Obama a "black" candidate and not some mixed-up, transcending candidate -and "black" candidates historically don't win nominations. As far as I'm concerned, Hilary has made mistakes and so has her husband; however, those mistakes provide for even better lessons, especially in battling for health care. Bill has been to over 90 countries since he left office. Our country is burdened by a major deficit and on top of that we are in a recession. When Clinton was in office, we were running a surplus and my groceries weren't $5 and item. Are you all going to tell me that Obama is going to know half the foreign policy of the Clinton's and know how to do the math of a Rhode Scholar like Bill to get out of the red? The democratic ticket would be hot if Hillary was Pres, John Edwards was VP, and Obama was running around healing the world as Secretary of State . . .

    • Posted By: lazytimewaster @ 02/01/2008 1:22:26 AM

      I couldn't agree with you more. It is refreshing to hear this viewpoint from a black woman. I'm glad you can read through the media BS and think for yourself. It seems that many people can't. Thank you for your post!

    • Posted By: EE7011 @ 01/30/2008 10:01:16 AM

      Poster 4573, your post contained much validity. The one thing we must remember is that Barack Obama is mixed. I know historically in this country if you have dark skin, you're considered black and must face all the obstacles/challenges that face you on a regular basis even if you're half white. There is no such thing as a perfect candidate and politics can be cruel. If Barack does not receive the democratic nomination I think that there will be a place for him in the White House somewhere in the near future. I respect the fact that Michele Obama is campaigning with him and speaking to groups of people as well. I love seeing women expressing their ideas and opinions. As for his lack of response to the events currently happening in Kenya, well I think he is focusing on his campaign and this country for the time being, but may be discussing the situation there privately. The media and our government has always cast Africans who are black in a negative light. I do feel there is an agenda behind that and you have to look for the positive yourself and believe me there is much positivity to be found.

  • Posted By: lazytimewaster @ 02/01/2008 1:18:04 AM

    I think the problem stated in this article can be explained quite simply. The "good 'ole boys" can't stand the idea of a high-powered capable, intelligent, well-rounded, respectable woman running this country. While feminists say they would love for this to happen, their natural evolutionary adaptations make it a hard idea to accept. Women are inherently jealous and territorial. Baird notes that none of the critiques of Sen. Clinton in the book have anything to do with her ability to act as president. They're simply jealous jibes at a powerful woman, Mrs. Clinton. Unfortunately, many women's instinct is to perceive power as a threat. This is the same reason so many women have trouble making female friends. In the words of the famed author, Kilgore Trout, "Men are ***. Women are psychotic."

  • Posted By: lovejusticepeace @ 01/31/2008 7:36:55 PM

    Angela Merkel, Indira Gandhi,Benazir Bhutto,Sheikh Hasina,Arroyo M,Srimavo Bandaranaike,..many more.

  • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 01/30/2008 2:44:21 PM

    One thing that is missing in the presidential gender conversation is how other countries will react to us with a female president.

    Of course, as an American, I don't believe it matters what gender someone is, as long as they are qualifed to do their work. But, many, if not most, countries around the world are still VERY gender sensitive when it comes to daily life things, much less leadership.

    I believe a female president would give the US a lot of difficulty with regards to foreign policy. It's sad, but true.

    • Posted By: elisa32 @ 01/31/2008 6:30:56 AM

      I think other countries will welcome a woman president. Look at Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel. Gender has nothing to do with it, once she is president and represents the country she will be given exactly the same treatment as all other male presidents.

  • Posted By: shoo @ 01/30/2008 6:21:29 PM

    To: carmen63

    You listen to too much Rush and Hennedy. With your time as a lawyer I wonder where you find the time or your husband have you tending the house 24/7?

  • Posted By: Joe-j @ 01/29/2008 8:58:37 PM

    Thank you for this piece. It is truly remarkable what has been written of late, by intelligent women, about Hillary. None of it seems to be based on facts, policy issues or actions by her. Only on some idealistic idea of what they want her to be and would despise her for being at the same time. If she were more emotional and personally forthcoming she would be deemed unpresidential. If she is strong, she is ridiculed as "harsh," if she plays the game as it needs to be played than she is "robotic" and "will do anything to win." She is a pioneer in a no win situation and should be applauded by such. But I think women's self hatred is just too strong.

    • Posted By: tdn0024 @ 01/30/2008 3:38:06 PM

      Women are voting for Hil in big numbers. There is more aspiration there than anything else.

      These ladies stories are a bit of a red herring. The exit polls show women firnly supporting Hillary.

      And, of course, many disgree with her on things -- as with any politician. The idea that Hillary isn't well with women or generally respected is daffy. Even people who focus their comments on what they don't like, and oppose her poltically, admire her for variuos of her personal qualities.

      The media provides us a bit of cartoonery in its presentation of this matters.

  • Posted By: tdn0024 @ 01/30/2008 3:29:55 PM

    Great self-observation about phoniness of American women.

    My favorite example: Elizabeth Dole. When the media fawned over her big convention speeck... ohmigod...that was the most impressive display of American female annoyingness ever. You could make a long living on Saturday Night Live spoofing that lady.

    Yep. Mrs. Dole giving a convention speech shows just how soothing fingernails on a chalkboard can be. Everything is relative, it seems

    Hillary, not so annoying. Meaning: only phony sometimes. Like everytime she is on a dais an seems to see, again, her best long lost friend for 40 years ago as eyes bug out of her head in emoting-connected amazement. C'mon. Who ya fooling, Hil?

    I don't think you can blame men for women's phoniness. Dianne Feinstein was like Hillary's good side all the time. And her name was one of the first of women bandied about as a presidential candidate. Condi and Madeline don't go in for that hokiness. Though one does wonder what, if anything, Nancy Pelosi is smiling about. Or did her face get stuck in that pose after a bit of surgery?

    Mainstream US women seem to have a strong need to show false enthusiasm. Phony, phony, phony. And so these writers no doubt cringe when they see Hillary do it.

    Look at Mia Hamm's generation of soccer teams. Beaufiful, intelligent, respected women who didn't run around with absurd figure skating smiles posted on their faces. The choice to don the figure skating 'smile' is yours alone. No male forces it.

    False smiling is not all Hillary does. And when she not cheesing it up, she's darn solid. Though I guess she knows that women want to see her be phony...so she keeps it up.

    American women, knock off the excuses and stop blaming maledom for your uncertainty. Act in a way that reflects what you are feeling and thinking inside. I'lll bet you find women goes just as far, probably further.

    It sure beats the alternative.

  • Posted By: ListeningFirst @ 01/30/2008 1:06:09 PM

    Wait though -- we do judge cantidates on thier looks. The media constantly recognizes and critiques "attractiveness" -- it seemed at some points that this was Edward's biggest selling point. Hillary is a woman, yes, and she will be judged on her looks/manner...just as Bill was, and Obama is, The women raise a valid point -- our gut, instictive reaction may not be the one we're most proud of, or the one that we discuss with our boss over lunch, but it will shape our actions. And the reality is that there are many voter -- both women and men -- who struggle to connect with Hillary. Hillary, as a woman in particular, is expected to connect, to resonate, and personify warmth. And, though she may have slept in the White House before, she is difficult to connect with. It's not about success or experience, it's about an innate sense of relationship that all great political leaders have. And unfortunately, Hillary lacks that.

  • Posted By: Jack3213 @ 01/30/2008 9:52:02 AM

    Women who wrote this book failed to express Hillarys stand on the issues, as mentioned. The exact reason intelligent women do not like women like this, they can't write intelligantly. Smart women are not intimadated by other smart women, they resent it when a seemingly smart woman says nothing of substance and lies about her qualifications. The louder the voice the less is actually said.

  • Posted By: newyearbabie @ 01/30/2008 1:08:47 AM

    Julia Baird's observations are dead-on. No one dislikes a successful, strong, intelligent woman more than another woman. However, not all women hate Hillary Clinton and those who do also resent these characteristics in women in their workplaces, their neighborhoods, and everywhere else in their lives. It's a symptom of self-loathing that tells far more about them than it does the women they hate.

  • Posted By: Lavender Mom @ 01/29/2008 11:11:54 PM

    "The problem is that many of the authors seem unaware of how much support Hillary actually has among women. Roiphe declares, "I have yet to meet a woman who likes Hillary Clinton." How, then, to explain that polling has consistently shown blue-collar women have rallied to Clinton's campaign, along with older women?"

    Good point. Really, I'm trying to figure out why Sen. Clinton has so much support among women. It???s as if women think they should vote for Sen. Clinton because she is a woman. As a woman I find that shallow.

    I disagree with the whole stupid concept of the book. However, at least they were trying to answer the question. No one wants to give a real answer. Do you have to vote for a woman candidate because you are a woman? I don???t think Sen. McCaskill or Gov. Sebelius think so. I don???t think if the Republicans had a female candidate they would feel compelled to vote based on gender/sex.

    The problem/answer is Sen. Clinton leads with "older women." As a woman of a new generation I don't have all the feminist anger. I think this is true of other 30somethings and especially young women. We appreciate the generations before us, but didn't they struggle to free us from being tied to this? Men take us seriously as coworkers and in whatever roles we take on. Older women think this is na??ve of our generation, but guess what??? Boy and girls grew up side by side learning that we are to respect each other based on our talents, skills and what we bring to the table as individuals. Is it perfect? No, but it has changed. Please recognize this or you risk falling into the trap that gender/sex is always an issue. That is so binding.

    As a mother raising three daughters, I certainly don't want the fact that they are female to decide what they can and can not do. I don???t want them bound by demographics or categories, ever. I don???t support Sen. Clinton for President, however; I think Sen. Clinton is definitely qualified to be President. The decision for me has nothing to do with her being a woman. She's not the candidate I support. Let's move past these divisive gender, race, and demographic categories and on to the issues.

  • Posted By: joeshields @ 01/29/2008 8:08:48 PM

    Before you can move a group of people anywhere, you must first be able to passionately communicate the need to move. "We choose to go to the moon", "Mr. Gorbachoff, tear down that wall", "The only thing we have to fear.." "it's the econonmy, stupid" Sometimes, planting the dream in people's heads is all it takes... then sit back and watch the magic. Watch 401ks skyrocket again. Watch smart people invent new low emission vehicles. Watch how easily concensus can be reached on a health plan that meets our needs at affordable costs. It's amazing what a true leader like Barack Obama can do. All we need to do is grab for that ring before it is too late. Some people are foolishly thinking they can have their Hillary now and their Obama later. Not so. No more than voters could have their Adlai Stevenson later, election after election. If you think Obama will be useful at some point but not now... think again. It is now, while the iron is hot that we must strike. Don't be foolish. Don't settle for bronze now and let gold slip through your fingers. We can't afford bronze right now.

  • Posted By: EE7011 @ 01/29/2008 4:58:16 PM

    Hillary Clinton is an educated woman who has her own thoughts/opinions and isn't affraid to express them. She obviously has goals, hopes, dreams etc and these qualities are important for all women to have. Remember "People with no hopes are easy to control."

  • Posted By: mscarr1 @ 01/29/2008 3:14:51 PM

    Liking Hillary has less to do with her lack of clothing style and the brashness of her speaking voice than it does with her politics. I simply don't like her politics - period. If she were a man - and had the same political viewpoints - I wouldn't like him either.

  • Posted By: let it be @ 01/29/2008 3:06:29 PM

    Clinton's campaign is exciting, pure and simple. She is making history, and for that she will assuredly be villified. If it is true that other successful, powerful women are threatened by her (and I don't know if that's truly the case -- how could that be gauged adequately), than perhaps it is mere jealousy. Women tend to be threatened by the notion of their power and of actually exercising it, for many reasons too complex for this little box. My sense of Clinton (and I think she would make a terrific president) is that she would be a welcome breath of fresh air to a country in desperate need of it. The questions of sex and gender will remain throughout her campaign, but she is smart enough to know what she's facing and to rise above it. I admire you, Hillary, and I am a 35-year old woman who continues her own journey towards owning my power. I hope you will use yours wisely.

  • Posted By: Rebozo999 @ 01/29/2008 1:46:03 PM

    I am not a fan of Rush Limbaugh, I find him too biased. But his comment about "Americans don't want to watch a woman grow older in the White House," was not a criticism of Hillary Clinton--but a criticism of America's superficial values. By clearly quoting Limbaugh out of context and reversing his intent, I wonder if author Julia Baird is just as biased.

  • Posted By: elisa32 @ 01/29/2008 12:10:02 PM

    There is nothing wrong with political ambition. Doesn't she deserve a chance to make a point on what she wants to do about the country just like the other candidates? She is not perfect, none of us are, and she had her reasons (one day to run for the presidency?) to stay with Bill after he cheated on her. I don???t think it is any of our business what she chose and why, she was the one cheated on. If she was a man, nobody would be commenting and comparing her to their preschool teacher. I like her, she is strong and she has to be in order to be the President. We can not have it both ways, where she has to show she is a woman... showing emotion and talking about her hair and get criticized for that, and show that she can be strong and pushy and direct and get criticize for that as well. She could be the first woman President of the United States and just for that she could make history. Unfortunately we fall into the typical stereotype of us women not supporting each other. She deserves the chance to give it a try at doing something great??? just like everyone else.

  • Posted By: sky123 @ 01/29/2008 3:15:28 AM

    I am a strong, independent, hard working woman with my own business. I have two children and a loving supportive husband. My husband is quite successful, but I make more money. Therefore, I am not jealous of the Clintons and I don't want what she has. I have more than enough. That being said, I will never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton. She is not to be trusted. If Hillary mouth is moving, she is lying. She and Bill are perfect for each other.

  • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 01/27/2008 8:00:46 PM

    I may be one of the few democratic women, or any other demographic, in the country who is neither passionately for, nor passionately against, Hilary Clinton. I am merely lukewarm. (However, I passionately dislke Bill). If she gets the democratic nomination, I will vote for her, although she is not my first choice, simply because so many others dislike her so strongly: I don't want to see any more polarization than we already have.

    I think she would make an excellent secretary of Health and Human Services. I think she was a good mom, and may have chosen to stay with Bill for Chelsea's sake, putting her child's needs above her own, which makes her laudable, in my book.

    I think she has been an effective senator, working hard for the people of NY. I don't find her any more or any less opportunistic and sleazy than any of the other politicians, which is to say that I don't think too highly of most of them.

    As for her crying - did anyone notice that she cried when, and only when, someone asked how she was holding up? Someone asked about her personal welfare, and it moved her to tears. To me, this is sad, and points out how lonely she is. Love her or hate her, she is doing something that no other woman has ever done, and being first is always hard. I couldn't do it - could you?

    She isn't perfect. And that is why women don't like her - they don't like looking in the mirror. We want our heroines to be perfect, and unless you want to nominate your fairy godmother, there isn't a perfect female candidate, any more than there is a perfect male one.

    I don't think she will make a particularly great president, but she will most likely be a competent one. And what a nice change that will be.

    • Posted By: Jen1960 @ 01/29/2008 2:18:59 AM

      Actually the question the women in NH posed to Hillary was how do you have time to do it all? Who does your hair? It had nothing to do with her personal well-being or her welfare. Hillary was looking for good photo op for her fake tears. A perfect Hillary example of why people are so passionate in their dislike for her....BTW, the women who asked that question, ended up voting for Obama...

  • Posted By: Jen1960 @ 01/29/2008 2:08:06 AM

    I'm a 47 year old white women and for the life of me, I don't understand what women see in Hillary Clinton. Here's whhat I see...a women with a great amount of self-esteem who stayed with a serial cheater so she could further her own political ambtions - it's as transparant as everything else that comes out of her month.

    And for the record, Senator Obama does not lack experience. He has more legislative experience than Hillary. Her claims of "35 years of experience" just isn't true (she's counting back to when she was 25?? What the heck experience did she have at that age to become President??.) She is compentent and smart, but also a liar and a person who is so polarizing that she will split the Democratic party in two. How many times do people have to reminded of all the scandals and coverups of her husband's administration? Travelgate, the health care debacle, the "vast right wing conspirarcy"? And if you don't think HIllary knew all about Monica, I have a bridge I'ld like to sell you. This women won't admit to anything she's done wrong. The attacks she and her husband orchastrated in South Carolina show just how they will do anything to get back into the White House. I guess it doesn't bother people that she used Bill to out and out lie about Obama's record. Obama brings a sense of hope and decency and REAL change to the country. I've voted Democrat all my life, if Hillary wins the nomination, I simply will not vote in the general election. It may not mean much, but at least in my own mind, I can rest easy knowing I did nothing to help Hillary get elected.

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