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ECONOMY

Driving Towards Disaster

Michigan's woes may soon become familiar to the rest of the country as recession looms.

By Keith Naughton | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jan 28, 2008 | Updated: 11:33  a.m. ET Jan 28, 2008

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  • Posted By: cani77 @ 10/03/2008 10:07:28 PM

    Comment: The Bush Depression


    In a few weeks we will make a choice that will decide our future.
    I follow an economist named Bob Proctor. He has called the top and bottom of every market crash since the 70s correctly.
    Also, he perfectly predicted the current real estate market meltdown and the picture he paints about what will happen in the next couple years
    is terrifying.He thinks it will be worse then the great depression.
    The banks in the U.S. are going under one after the other. Countrywide the largest morgage bank in the world,Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch which are 3 out of the top 5 wall street firms. Also, Fanny and Freddy Mae which hold 50 percent of the home loans in the United States.
    The government took them over because they are essentially bankrupt.If they didn't the entire financially system would virtually shut down, the stock market would crash and we would suffer beyond what any of us have seen before.

    McCain just like Bush " doesn't understand the economy".
    That not just my opinion its his own words. Not only does he not understand how to fix it but he does not understand exactly what is broken.
    It is no surprise that he doesn't. The people that make up these securities use complex mathematical models very few people understand.
    Bush and McCain both can take the credit for this mess since they helped deregulate the laws that were protecting us.

    Bush's economic advisor Phil Graham wrote the deregulation bill that allowed banks to take huge risks with all of our future.
    Now, Phil Graham is the head of McCain's economic policy.He is also McCain's choice for the next secretary of the treasury.
    No one in this country can afford for that to happen. The last time Bush met with his economic advisors was in March. He either didn't care or didn't realize that anything was wrong. Phil Graham had the guts to say that we are in a mental recession after he helped create the worst economy meltdown in our lifetime.
    It will take the best and brightest minds in the world to get us out of this nightmare. As bad as Bush has done, McCain would be
    even more destructive because things are in much worse shape. The next president will not inherit a surplus like Bush did but a tanking economy and a 11,600,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars deficit.Bush created a national debt larger then the first 42 presidents combined
    If you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got.
    When it comes to policy Bush and McCain are the same 90 percent of the time.
    So why isnt obama 25 points ahead

    The chairman of McCains campaign recently said that people don't vote on issues they vote on a personality composite. Which means he is trying to sell you personality instead of results.

    Let's teach him we are smarter than that .

    31 states are voting now, dont wait
    Elect Obama Biden 2008





    Check out this video of sarah palins interview before you vote



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4i

  • Posted By: M8637 @ 08/17/2008 3:15:09 AM

    Comment: And yes, I am posting at past 3 in the morning. I'm so stressed out I can't sleep... I would go see a doctor about it but have no healthcare.

  • Posted By: M8637 @ 08/17/2008 3:12:32 AM

    Comment: I have lived in Michigan all of my 27 years and let me tell you that Michigan IS a pretty nice place to live IF you have a decent paying job. After getting a bachelor's and post-grad training I cannot find work. Mind you I have good grades, a good work history. I was working at Nordstrom until I was laid off earlier this summer. Now I have nothing and am struggling day by day to survive. My rebate check went into my gas tank as I go from interview to interview where I compete with 100 people for 1 position and due to my age just about everyone has a one-up on me. Whoever said that Detroit deserves what it is getting... thank you for that... it is like pouring salt on my wounds which were inflicted by no desire of my own.

  • Posted By: jayboy @ 03/15/2008 4:30:11 AM

    Comment: you poor bastards have really been "bushwacked"
    maybe this will sheet home to electors the idiocy of your selection process for the top job
    I can understand the mistake of electing the shrub once but not twice
    the hawks chickens are coming home to roost

  • Posted By: Sexy Bitch @ 03/07/2008 12:55:43 PM

    Comment: The American dream was gone a long time agowhen people started getting greedy I think it's terrible that you and your family are pushed into the state of living but you have way more money a month then a lot of people you can survive you will just have to make do I know if I retire I wont get that kind of money.

  • Posted By: FryeDaddy @ 02/06/2008 1:00:11 AM

    Comment: This United States media and their black balling of DR Ron Paul is and will be the greatest injustice I have ever witnessed. I am ashamed of our media and what they have done to this nation as a whole, by leading the ignorant masses to follow after the Hillary and McCain in the destruction of America. The only hope we as American's have at this point in history is Dr. Paul. He is a honest American who beleive's in the Constitution of the United States, whom as President would bring it back to that great document that we all take for granted. He by doing that would alone improve the quality of life in these United States, as well as make the rest of this world Respect us again, and not Fear us for our radical outlook on foriegn policy which by the way is unconstitutional. This truly is a shame, I predict that by 2012 we as a people will be resorted to standing in bread lines, our military will be depleted, and we will be as other third world countrys for our monetary system will be too far gone. Thank's to the Media and the ignorant voting masses for they will be the blame for the destruction of the greatest nation on earth. What a shame !!! Dr. Paul, to you Sir, I say this, please know that there really is critical thinking, non politically correct, constitution Loving people out there, however, we were outnumbered by the ignorant and a corrupt media. Don't give up the fight Sir, for neither will we.

  • Posted By: jayrkay @ 02/04/2008 4:12:19 PM

    Comment: An economist, Mr.Wheelan, University of Chicago, a few days back written an article on JOB SKILLS/LACK OF IT, was the main point. Your readers should read this and come to grips with the harsh reality of our times. He is the champion for growth -job skills. We were the best, but of late we fallen behind. The same economic hardship in Michigan or else where.

  • Posted By: jayrkay @ 02/04/2008 4:03:35 PM

    Comment: It is not the State Sir, it is the people in Michigan and all across USA, who has this fever-NO JOB SKILLS for this millenium. We are ill-equipped to compete in the global market. It is like dependent ENERGY and gradually, getting addicted foreign work force- reason- JOB SKILLS- plenty of jobs are their, but we do not have TOOLS. Politicians have talking tools- BIG MOUTH. No body can help with economy on short term basis, again, true education becomes of importance..Also, Democratic party is bickering over the delegates from Michigan and Florida(am frim Florida), disenfranchising the electorate. Who is mouthing off- Democrats.

  • Posted By: liwop @ 02/03/2008 5:39:51 PM

    Comment: As a consumer, it amazes me how Detroit works. I am not anti union, but the way the UAW has operated over the years is atrocious. They want and want and want. However, they don???t seem to want to give in return. You don???t need to be a rocket scientist to know that if the trend keeps up the company either has to move out or close their doors. The UAW doesn???t seem to care as long as they get their due. Well it appears now the writing is on the wall, what is the UAW doing about it??????NOTHING. I feel for the workers who are taking it in the shorts now. But all you folks need to look back over the years when you were tickled to keep getting the big bucks and benefits. In fact you kept wanting more. Some of your skilled staff deserves higher pay, but when you include janitors etc making $30.00 an hour you folks are being greedy. Secondly, management keeps chasing the rainbow in order to maintain the UAW standard of living. Both side now need to sit down and answer one simple question. Do we want this cycle to continue, or and go out of business or do we want to salvage what we have and return to dominance in the auto industry?

  • Posted By: A tired citizen @ 01/30/2008 2:48:24 PM

    Comment: I have lived in MIchigan my entire life. I lost one good paying job of 28 years after 9/11. I am about to get laid off of another company that is going down. I live on the opposite side of the state from Detroit. We do not have a big 3 problem here yet our unemployment is the worst in the state. Wages are low because employers have been employing illegals for years at rock bottom pay scales. I don't know what the answers are but the people in MIchigan are desperate and I don't think we can blame one person or another. The state and its people just need help. I think bringing in plants in alternative fuel would help. There are hard working folks here that would love good steady work. If anyone really knows what the answer is please step forward and run for office. I hear a lot of promises but not a lot of plans for the solutions. A tired Citizen.

  • Posted By: allgood5 @ 01/30/2008 2:22:39 PM

    Comment: The big 3 cannot survive with the union. The unions have brought them to there knees. You can't have people making 100,000 a year that don't do their job. They spend more time trying not to do there job then actually accomplishing anything. The autoworkers ----What a joke ---- They aren't workers they are lazy spoiled rotten brats that should have to find a real job and work for a living. Been in so many of the plants as a service engineer fixing machines they couldn't fix. Only because to lazy.

  • Posted By: allgood5 @ 01/30/2008 2:17:01 PM

    Comment: The Unions brought Ford Chrysler and GM down. Michigan has just fallen with them. We needed a union back in the 60's but now it has overstepped it's bounds. Get rid of them. Autoworkers --LMAO They aren't workers they spend more time trying not to do the job then just going out and doing what you are paid to do---YOUR JOB.

  • Posted By: Wag The Dog @ 01/30/2008 12:59:53 PM

    Comment: "Detroit got exactly what it deserved." Posted By: Caocao8888

    Get ready, your job is next jackass -- then we'll see how you feel about "deserving" having your livelihood ripped out from beneath you when your only crime was showing up for work everyday.

  • Posted By: Wag The Dog @ 01/30/2008 12:52:38 PM

    Comment: "Detroit got exactly what it deserved." Comment by Caocao8888

    Your next, ***.

  • Posted By: John.Cash @ 01/30/2008 9:52:55 AM

    Comment: It is absurd that the UAW or any union labor had anything to do with what and how non-union management decided to invest in. Non-union management decided to get fat and drunk off of SUVs, and never invested in fuel efficient, competitive family sedans. Non-union management decided to open parts factories in China and Mexico sending their customers (American) jobs over seas. Why is that foreign auto-makers non-union management can figure out how to make good cars, invest in technology and design, to make cars people want. While US management was more focused on outrageous executive pay, golden parachutes, paying stock dividends, and continuing to design and sell cars that were cheap and inefficient, knowing that people didn't want them? Those who run the company, who make all the decisions, are the only ones to blame. Blaming the UAW for the companies failure, is exactly like blaming the US military for wasting 5 years and 500 billion dollars in Iraq. The soldiers have no say in policy or what the organization does; neither does the UAW.

    • Posted By: mattincinci @ 01/30/2008 3:56:03 PM

      Comment: If you want to see "fat and drunk" go to a UAW conference. The UAW always wanted to be called a "a partner in the business." A partner in the business not only wants power, which the UAW has always demanded, and gotten too much of, but a partner in the business also wants responsibility. The UAW never wanted responsibility. There are a lot of decent people who work in the auto industry, but the UAW could never find it's way to say "no" to the slugs. The slugs get caught having sex in the workplace, getting high in the workplace, beating people up in the workplace, defecating and urinating on product in the workplace, etc. etc. I have seen it all. I have also seen management employees do the same things. The difference: management fires it's slugs and they stay fired. Around contract time the UAW always negotiated to bring the slugs back. That has a negative effect on morale for the people who come in every day, and just want to do their job. Foreign automaker management have made some better decisions than domestic automaker management, but so has foreign labor. Foreign, and I mean Japanese, autoworkers have such pride in their work, they would never tolerate terrible behavior and laziness, like U.S autoworkers do. When there are labor contracts, floor supervisors don't have the ability to make the decisions they want to make, again the company agreed to it, so the supervisors have to live with it, but a "partner in the business" would take a step back and say, "union brother, union sister, I can't demand everything you want. It makes no business sense, and will ultimately drive your job out of this country." I have seen people who get paid six figures, including overtime, refuse to allow management to bring in new employees, new ultimately union employees, because more workers means less overtime. Only greed would blind somebody to the fact that a more union members, younger union members, means a stronger union in the long run. The long run, something foreign management and labor have done a better job of focusing on. Go take another nap on company time John. You've earned it.

    • Posted By: allgood5 @ 01/30/2008 2:36:23 PM

      Comment: Man YOU gotta be a union employee. Never take responsibility for yourself or you lazy colleages. You are over paid and under worked. Next time the call you to come out on the floor and do your job don't wait until the card game is over. Go quickly and tell your friends to do the same or they WILL be working at McDonals. I'll order a mac and fries please and try to hurry up.

  • Posted By: Caocao8888 @ 01/29/2008 7:25:13 PM

    Comment: The auto unions, under dubious leadership at best, got giddy with power. Most of a worker's energy went to protecting his job. Quality, integrity, and vision were not in the musclemen's vocabulary. You know the saying in Wall Street: Bulls make money, bears make money, but hogs get slaughtered. Detroit got exactly what it deserved.

  • Posted By: mattincinci @ 01/29/2008 3:13:32 PM

    Comment: The UAW made ridiculous demands and protected too many workers who rather than getting shafted on the job, just didn't want to work. The Big 3 allowed the UAW to do this, when everyone was fat and happy in the 80's, rather than say "no" and fight the good short term fight for long term gain. As far as SUV's go, the reasons not to buy one were valid 10 years ago as well as today. the majority of Americans just didn't give a crap about terrible fuel economy when gas was $1.50, and they will never care about the environmental impact of their consumption until it's way too late. The Big 3 represent America, they gave the consumer what they wanted.

  • Posted By: Hugo90 @ 01/29/2008 3:07:03 PM

    Comment: I'm one of the 30,000 to leave Michigan last year. It is still a wonderful place to live, if you have a steady job.

    As for the auto companies, they are fixated on high profit models and still ignore good fuel economy. Every year, Detroits cars get bigger engines and more horsepower. I have little faith that they will learn any lessons.

  • Posted By: millerman40 @ 01/29/2008 2:42:36 PM

    Comment: Talk about narrow minded thinking by the car manufacturers. This is their fault, they continued to ignore the signs of higher gas prices and producing there gas guzzling SUV's. If they had paid attention, they would have been selling EV's or hybrids left right and center these days. But nope, just wallow in the greed and play catch up. The sad part is, the workers are paying the price for the Big Three's stupidity.

    • Posted By: brianinhouston @ 01/29/2008 2:54:27 PM

      Comment: To add to your post: Someone should do research on how it is that Toyota and Honda can continue to operate efficiently in Ohio and Kentucky without the same malaise as the Big 3 in Michigan. I know the obvious reason is the pension debate but there has to be more to it than that. Also, Toyota is killing the Big 3 with the Prius.

  • Posted By: brianinhouston @ 01/29/2008 2:39:29 PM

    Comment: For starters - Never take out a loan without taxes/insurance escrow payments factored into your monthly payment.

    I had horrible credit and was able to finance a nice home for $125,000 at 7.93% that needed a little TLC. I made sure my taxes/insurance were factored into the payment and the payment was what I could afford. People should be smarter when making decisions. Most of this mortgage mess is the fault of GREED on the part of American consumers. The gov't only failed us in not regulating the mortgage/industry stronger in order to stop predatory lending. I also don't purchase things if I can't pay with cash. Try it, it's not so hard.

  • Posted By: Johnybackward @ 01/29/2008 2:31:38 PM

    Comment: You should have dug deeper. First, the issues in Michigan are impacted a bit by sub prime loans, but are more so the result of the downward spiral of the U.S. automotive industry. Jobs lost, payments lost. Comparing the housing market to that of California or Nevada is comparing apples and oranges. Also, the comment about not enjoying the bubble required a bit more research. While Michigan did not have a rapid rise in values over a short period - they did have sustained, large growth in home values from the mid 90's to 2003. In fact, they averaged over 10% value increase a year during this period. As an example, I sold my Michigan home in 2001 for more than double what I paid for it in 1990. Not a bad investment at all. I think that if you are going to draw analogies you need to take a better look at the facts.

  • Posted By: keninnorthcarolina @ 01/29/2008 2:30:07 PM

    Comment: $2,600 dollars a month is a great pension for someone in the south. Our factory workers have no pensions and never made $2,600 in the first place. Our factory workers make around $1,000 to $1,500 a month. The Michigan workforce is going to have to wait on the local economies to normalize (ie: foreclosures bringing down housing costs) ,so more modest wages can actually sustain a family. No good news on this one, just politicians with empty promises on the campaign trail trying to get your vote.

  • Posted By: Johnybackward @ 01/29/2008 2:27:15 PM

    Comment: This article has some rather large holes in it. First, the issues in Ca. and Nevada are poor parallels to what has happened in Michigan. The issue in Michigan is the automotive industry, this has driven loss of jobs and a downward spiral of housing prices as much as (or more than) sub prime loans. Second, your statement of not enjoying the bubble is a bit off as well. If you look at the Detroit metro housing market, you would have seen home prices rising at 10+percent a year from 1995 to 2003. I sold my home in Mi in 2001 at double what I paid in 1993, a pretty good investment. So, while Michigan may not have enjoyed a rapid rise as a few states did, they did quite well in home values until just a few years ago.

    • Posted By: A tired citizen @ 01/30/2008 2:49:59 PM

      Comment: Detroit is not the only place in MIchigan. What happened to the rest of the state?

  • Posted By: angrybill @ 01/29/2008 2:25:38 PM

    Comment: I lived in Japan for 19 years and at one point, I wanted to buy a new Cadillac but the sticker price was 3 times more than what I would have to pay for it here at home so guess what, I did'nt buy the American car. Bottom line, the Japanese have measures to protect their industries and economy. Why can't we be as smart?

  • Posted By: Daren329 @ 01/29/2008 2:09:05 PM

    Comment: Don't blame Bush, blame Granholm. This all happened under her watch. Blame Detroit, they re-elected her. Nice politicians here in Michigan, an idiot (Granholm) and a liar (Kilpatrick).

    • Posted By: Wag The Dog @ 01/30/2008 1:06:25 PM

      Comment: Your a liar or a fool. The problems with our economy go back to before JOHN ENGLER, who made things much, much worse. If you were actually from Michigan you would know that.
      So you can DENY, DENY, DENY all day long -- but we both know the economy was failing here LONG before Granholm took office.

      • Posted By: plasticsguy @ 06/18/2008 7:26:50 AM

        Comment: Michigan's problems began when Romney was governor and he help to create the welfare state that Michigan became. The UAW did nothing but contribute to the ailing auto industry's demise. As a former Michiganer and Ford salaried employee I saw this first hand.

        • Posted By: lynn_minmei @ 06/18/2008 10:44:00 PM

          Comment: I agree, for awhile, people from other states moved here because of the better welfare benefits. What a terrible plan.

  • Posted By: Daren329 @ 01/29/2008 2:07:17 PM

    Comment: Don't thank Bush, thank Granholm. Unemployment highest in the nation since 2003. Wasn't that during her first term? Also, where did most of her votes come from??? The Detroit area. Nice politicians we have here in MI, an idiot and a liar (Kilpatrick).

    • Posted By: ElphinKnight @ 01/29/2008 7:23:08 PM

      Comment: I'm not a Democrat, and I don't like Granholm or Kilpatrick, but the problems we have in Michigan are not their fault. Economic development takes many, many years. We saw this coming 15-20 years ago and it was 15 years ago that we should have been doing something about it. Instead, we elected a governor who's entire schtick was "cut cut cut". Well, he cut alright. He cut really deep. We got what we asked for.

  • Posted By: jim_in_wisc @ 01/29/2008 2:06:27 PM

    Comment: The "union" has sucked the host to death and now the ticks are whinning. Are they really that stupid to see it is their own fault??

    And when will the media wake up... The reason people are buying cars from Japan is NOT fuel economy - it is cuz they build a BETTER product for the same cost (BECAUSE the union has raised the price of the product so much that we can not produce an equal quality car for what the Japanese can).

    • Posted By: keninnorthcarolina @ 01/29/2008 2:33:09 PM

      Comment: Amen

      • Posted By: allgood5 @ 01/30/2008 2:28:26 PM

        Comment: I agree the union has sucked the host to death. They are lazy and don't want to work just go in and collect their check. They are the reason america can't compete. Thank the UAW. I'm a service engineer and have been in alot of those plants. NOW YOU GUYS GET OUT AND WORK FOR A LIVING . Like the rest of us.

  • Posted By: GeraldBangor @ 01/29/2008 2:03:41 PM

    Comment: It amazes me that people blame Bush when the real problem is staring us in the face every day in the mirror. We have been to eager for to long to buy cheap goods at Walmart that are made in China, India, and Taiwan. Those dollars we spend go overseas into the pockets of foreign businesses, rather than to your neighbor who can then buy a new US auto. Time to wake up and buy American!!! All our jobs and homes depend on it.

    • Posted By: Wag The Dog @ 01/30/2008 1:16:20 PM

      Comment: Reality check : It's not that most people enjoy shopping at Wal-Mart, it's that they cannot afford to shop anywhere else. You know, because many here used to make $15 an hour in manufacturing and now are working retail for $6 an hour. Sure, it's all nice and good and fuzzy to think about buying American but let's be realistic, many people cannot afford to buy American products and good luck finding any to buy if you can afford it.

    • Posted By: bobjusacoil @ 01/29/2008 2:16:43 PM

      Comment: I hate to tell you this, but recessions are a natural part of our economic cycle. They happen periodically, whether you ask for them or not. The stock market goes up and it goes down. The unemployment rate goes down and then it goes up. Consumer spending goes up and then down again. It's been this way since the beginning of time. I promise you that this is not the end of the universe, even though there are plenty of newspeople who would have you believe that it is. There have been housing lead recessions before. The last one was only over 15 years ago. It's not a precursor for the end of our civilization. I do have one additional comment, however. People need to quit spending more than they make and I don't care if your debt is on credit cards, car payments, or mortgages.

  • Posted By: GeraldBangor @ 01/29/2008 2:03:26 PM

    Comment: It amazes me that people blame Bush when the real problem is staring us in the face every day in the mirror. We have been to eager for to long to buy cheap goods at Walmart that are made in China, India, and Taiwan. Those dollars we spend go overseas into the pockets of foreign businesses, rather than to your neighbor who can then buy a new US auto. Time to wake up and buy American!!! All our jobs and homes depend on it.

  • Posted By: spygirl @ 01/29/2008 1:56:07 PM

    Comment: It's refreshing to see everyone recognizing Michigan's Recession and not just a "bad time " for Us. Thanks Mr. Bush...

  • Posted By: Cates @ 01/29/2008 9:45:37 AM

    Comment: The 1980's will look like good times compared to what is to come ... we are just starting to pay the price for GW Bush stupidity, ignorance and arrogance. IF america survives, we will be suffering for decades.

  • Posted By: Karenn1 @ 01/29/2008 7:26:55 AM

    Comment: For those young that don't remenber the 1980's watch out. Recession spreads like butter.

    • Posted By: ohioDad @ 02/03/2008 3:03:32 PM

      Comment: As an Ohio college graduate in electronics in 86 I fixed CT scannners enjoyed a brief 5 year run of almost 6 digits at Nortel Networks during the .com boom- went back into medical imaging service and have jostled around there ever since in and out of resizing and layoffs. The only reason my family stays with it's head above water is that my wife is working and making almost as much as me. I do believe the American Dream is over. When two peolpe have to work to equal the income one person used to bring in in decades past. It's a global economy and the effect has worked its way into making the American worker overpaid. We have the ultra rich getting richer. Even as I was raised union. I have never seen the efficiency there with them. But, I have never voted for a republican. Regardless, this country is structured to favor the ultra rich with insider connectivity to US policy and corporate attachments to the way politics are run in this country that favor the elite. CEO's make awful decisions and expect the governemnt to bail them out. Now, the average joes are getting older and looking to collect on social security and what remains of their pensions/401K's. I am just hoping to have health insurance when I get older and to get my kids thru college. The two things I can say that have helped. Living within our means. Not making bad decisions on material needs, ie homes/cars. And saving for the rainy day. Also- enjoy your time on the planet with your children family and friends.

    • Posted By: ohioDad @ 02/03/2008 3:00:33 PM

      Comment: As an Ohio college graduate in electronics in 86 I fixed CT scannners enjoyed a brief 5 year run of almost 6 digits at Nortel Networks during the .com boom- went back into medical imaging service and have jostled around there ever since in and out of resizing and layoffs. The only reason my family stays with it's head above water is that my wife is working and making almost as much as me. I do believe the American Dream is over. When two peolpe have to work to equal the income one person used to bring in in decades past. It's a global economy and the effect has worked its way into making the American worker overpaid. We have the ultra rich getting richer. Even as I was raised union. I have never seen the efficiency there with them. But, I have never voted for a republican. Regardless, this country is structured to favor the ultra rich with insider connectivity to US policy and corporate attachments to the way politics are run in this country that favor the elite. CEO's make awful decisions and expect the governemnt to bail them out. Now, the average joes are getting older and looking to collect on social security and what remains of their pensions/401K's. I am just hoping to have health insurance when I get older and to get my kids thru college. The two things I can say that have helped. Living within our means. Not making bad decisions on material needs, ie homes/cars. And saving for the rainy day. Also- enjoy your time on the planet with your children family and friends.

 
 
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