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  • Posted By: mikael_hakim @ 01/29/2008 4:27:47 AM

    " ... much like the ancient prophets, such as Moses or Elijah ..."
    Please don't forget Elias, who, as a translation error of KJV bible, is a different person in Mormonism.

  • Posted By: hifi @ 01/29/2008 3:25:38 AM

    I appreciate the Mormons and their works of social upliftment, and convey my thanks to you for the invitation for joining the group though (kind invitation from Mormon friend 'mlfurm' who responded below)!
    Trust that I have indeed seen through the Book of Mormons, in which it claims to be a sect/cult/denomination/etc of Christianity, whereas, in the Holy Bible it is clearly written about the return of Christ as "I will come with a New Name and "a New Faith". How can you explain this?
    It is also mentioned that Christ will come again "in the Glory of God"
    Well, to be frank, I have found the true answers to all these and other questions like the "second coming of Christ" in the Bahai World Faith.
    The Bahai Faith stands for World Peace and Unity. This objective of unity takes its concrete expression in the following principles:
    - recognizes the unity of God and of His prophets
    - upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth
    - condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice
    - teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony
    - states that religion must go hand-in-hand with science and that it
    - constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society
    - inculcates the principle of equal opportunity, rights and privileges of both sexes
    - advocates compulsory education
    - abolishes extremes of poverty and wealth
    - recommends the adoption of an auxiliary international language, and
    - provides the necessary agencies for the establishment and safe-guarding of a permanent and universal peace.
    These principles are but the broadest outlines of the Baha'i social objectives, and represent only the bare minimum of the wealth that is contained in the writings of the Founder. It will be confusing to some, but perfectly clear to others, when the Baha'i says that his profession of faith makes him no less a Christian (or a Hindu, or a Muslim), etc. He feels that he has followed, as best he can, the call of the Spirit. He does not leave the Christ or Muhammad or Krishna behind. Christ as the Spirit of God is always out in front of the best of men. The Baha'i allegiance to Christ is his allegiance to Baha'u'llah.
    When Jesus announced His mission, He reminded His followers that He did not abrogate the Jewish law, but was its logical and natural fulfillment. He said, "Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me." Likewise, Baha'u'llah states that the truest followers of Jesus will recognize Him and in faith and joy will come to His side in this new day. At this juncture, I can, however, suggest to you, my Christian friends, the writings of a dedicated scholar, Canon George Townshend, who spent a lifetime investigating the Baha'i Faith and understanding its relationship to Christianity. His two best books are 'Christ and Baha'u'llah" and "The Promise of All Ages."

  • Posted By: LEMON8R @ 01/29/2008 1:57:46 AM

    Back to one of the questions of the article- will we see more ethnic diversity in the leadership of the Church? As the LDS Church has expanded in Latin America, there is an ever expanding group of mid level leaders (between the central leadership at church offices in Salt Lake and the local parishes and dioceses- called Wards and Stakes) that are members of the Seven Quorums of Seventy. That is the group of men with the most leadership experience and are often the ones called to be apostles. A significant portion of those leaders are now from Central and South America, reflecting the make up of the general LDS Church membership. The Church is changing- too slow for some and too fast for others, which probably means it's just about right.

  • Posted By: Twister52 @ 01/29/2008 1:31:17 AM

    BTW, thanks for the article. Very well and fairly (ie, "accurate") written.

  • Posted By: thatonegirl @ 01/29/2008 1:29:17 AM

    In all this fighting many have forgotten the point of this article- to remember an amazing man who has touched so many lives without ever even necessarily meeting them. He has provided unconditional love and service to ALL- LDS church members AND those who don't believe in our religion. This article is also written to inform the world about another amazing man who has already touched our lives in the same way and will continue to lead the church and serve the world without question. These men can be an inspiration to all whether or not you agree with what they believe. And please, before you post insults that aren't even accurrate about the church, ask a member and/or missionary and they will be more than happy to explain anything you want to know. Find out the facts from those who are living it- then make your own opinion. Have an amazing day.

  • Posted By: hifi @ 01/29/2008 12:30:07 AM

    (I am repeating some oportions of my earlier post and my appeal as below)
    Dear friends of truth,
    If you kindly study the Holy Bible and other Holy Books again (but this time: study with YOUR OWN EYES: i.e. UNBIASED from the promptings of the church/priests/your parents/friends/etc), then alone you will discern the truths about what is a religion, what is its purpose, how often it is revealed, to what type of souls, what was the mission of the past Prophets and what is the true meaning and station of Messengers of God, what was the intensity of their sufferings ?.
    Do read about Their sacrifices, Their difficulty-ridden lives they suffered for the sake of humanity, and Their universal message (which is not a mere synthesis of past knowledge or current events, but a holistic way of life of happiness and progress for EVERYONE living in the present and for a specific period of time in future).
    I have myself studied these histories, the holy Books 'with my own eyes', and have to conclude that all Messengers of God are true and their guidance is meant for 'Enlightenment for humanity', and their periodic appearance is a true sign of Bounty of God for humanity's spriritual upliftment and material progress.
    Take a while and ponder... The Christ (and all other Messengers of God) never wore a golden crown (as some officers /priests of the present churches/ temples/mosques do use), they never wore a gem-studded robe, they never rode in Mercs, they never had a questionable past.
    All the Messengers of God were the essence of purity and piousness, and inspite of these sublime qualities, they laid Their lives for the ignorant humanity.
    Do study the Unversality of the teachings of Messengers of God with a seekers eye, (with malice towards none) and look into the lives of Messengers of God in known history : viz: Abraham, Moses, Zarathustra, Krishna, Buddha, The Christ , Mohammed, and more recently - in 18th century: in the life and martyrdom of the Bab, and the life and Mission of Bahaullah - founder of the Bahai Faith).
    I urge you to study RELIGION as an all-encompassing phenomena, unifying humanity, with a broader and universal point of view, and not merely as an insider of ones faith.
    Hoping that you all achieve enlightenment about these Bounties of God someday.

    • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/29/2008 12:44:05 AM

      hifi, I agree with everything you've just said and incidently you have just perfectly described every prophet of the Mormon Church! You really don't know anything about the Mormon Church do you? For example: di you know that there are no paid clergy in the Mormon church? Every leader SERVES as the savior said it should be, donating there time while still working at their own vocation as well. There are no crowns or riches or nice cars owned by any leader of the Mormon church accept those things that they may have earned through their chosen vocation. The LDS Church teaches what is in the scriptures that priestcrafts are an obination and church leader should serve and not work for money. You did leave out one thing when it come to prophets however... Most were persecuted and had lies spread about them by the wicked, others bore false witness against them, even the Saviour himself had these things happen to him. The Pharasees would say that Christ came from a questionable past. Many would say Paul came from a questionable past. It sounds like you already beleive in the same things that Mormons do. I promise you. Take some time to really know what the Mormon Church is about. You may find you need to convert. : )

  • Posted By: rybo74 @ 01/29/2008 12:04:44 AM

    Comment: Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 23:52:00

    What was stated that would be perceived as anything other than fact to warrant a "Do your research" comment? Don't even get me started, I know my facts.
    Absurd blasphemy spoken by a true LDS (Lunatics Disguised as Saints) member.

    • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/29/2008 12:32:45 AM

      Well let's see... Joseph Smith was 14,not 13. Refering to the church as a cult. And suggesting that nothing worth while is being accomplished by the members of the LDS church. (I wonder how much you could accomplish if your time wasn't invested in coming up with ridiculous and offensive abreviations for LDS - Did you send that one to Weird Al?) And not really understanding what your suggesting by being amazed by the church being started by a simple farm boy. Is this what this is really all about? You needing to puff yourself up and convince others how smart you are? I don't think you do know your facts.

  • Posted By: LaKahe @ 01/29/2008 12:31:09 AM

    We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet!
    To guide us in these latter days!
    We thank thee for sending the gospel,
    to lighten our minds with it's rays!
    We thank thee for every blessing,
    bestowed by thy bounteous hands!
    We feel it a pleasure to serve thee,
    and a love to obey thy command!

  • Posted By: westobk @ 01/28/2008 11:11:48 PM

    Who decided that it was OK to tear down our faith? You can almost always count on the LDS people to lead the way in service and love to their fellow men. We consistently see other religions working hard to spread rumors and falsehoods about the church. I would just ask that you talk frankly with a member if you really want to know what we are about. There is nothing to be scared of, we are not scared to explain our faith. The cornerstone of our church is Jesus Christ and we strive to not just 'believe in' him we actually believe him when we read the Bible. Many members have the read the Bible from cover to cover more than once.
    If God does choose Thomas S. Monson as prophet the church membership will get a chance to sustain him and I promise that all the members already know this great man very well. We have in many cases seen him in person and if not we have heard him talk hundreds of times.

    • Posted By: hifi @ 01/28/2008 11:23:39 PM

      Prophets are 'sent' to this planet to guide the 'whole humanity' and not just lead a small sect of a religion. Universality of their teachings is their landmark, sacrifice is their eternal virtue, their life is their mission, their actions are their teachings. Study the glorious history of the prophets of the past. Study their station, enlighten yourself about the Bible and othe holy Books of the world 'with your own eyes' (and not eyes of your neighbour) and ponder a while...Just electing someone does not 'make' him a prophet of the world in the sight of God. You may call him a leader/representative/etc instead.

      • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 11:37:41 PM

        hifi your are extremely misinformed. The prophet is not 'elected' as you have suggested in several of your posts. The Twelve Apostles recieve DIRECT revelation from God on who he has called to be the next prophet, in a similar fashion to those in the times of old. Read in the New Testament how the Twelve back then met and determined a successor for Judas... And you are absolutely right, a prophet is sent to guide the whole of humanity and President Hinckley's and the other modern day prophet's mesages have been for the world. There counsel and messages are for everyone but just like prophet's of old, there are those who choose to listen and there are those who harden there hearts against it. The message of the LDS Church is for all to hear and ponder and decide for themselves if it is the word of God or not. I humbly suggest you take the time to hear the message of President Hinckley and the others before him. Pray and follow the spirit. Look at their fruits that you may know for yourself if they are true prophets or not. Good luck!

        • Posted By: hifi @ 01/28/2008 11:58:25 PM

          dear friend, if you kindly study the Holy Bible again (with YOUR OWN EYES: i.e. UNBIASED : from the promptings of the church-priests/your parents/friends/etc), then alone you will discern the truths about what is religion, the mission of the Prophets and Messengers of God, the suffering. Read about their sacrifices, their difficulty-ridden lives they suffered for the sake of humanity, and their universal message (which is not a mere a synthesis of past or current events, but a holistic way of life for EVERYONE in present and future). I have myself studied these 'with my own eyes', and have to conclude that : The Christ never worn a golden crown (as some officers /priests of the present churches do), He never wore a gem-studded robe, He never rode in Mercs, He never had a questionable past, He was the essence of purity and piousness, and inspite of these sublime qualities, He laid His life for humanity. Parallels of this kind of sacrificial life are ONLY to be found in the lives of others Messengers of God: viz: Abraham, Moses, Zarathustra, Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed, and more recently - in 18th century: in the life and martyrdom of the Bab, and the life and Mission of Bahaullah). I urge you to study RELIGION with a broader and universal point of view, and not merely as an insider of your faith. Hoping that you enlightenment yourself someday.

  • Posted By: hifi @ 01/28/2008 11:12:17 PM

    Prophets are supposed to be 'appointed' by God and not to be 'elected' by mortal humans. Mormons should first educate themselves about the concepts of 'prophethood', rethink about the authenticity of their own faith by studying their own question-riddled history, and stop this blasphemy of creating false prophets forever.

    • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 11:39:56 PM

      See the reply to your previous posts below... Good luck.

  • Posted By: kjocurtis @ 01/28/2008 8:31:52 PM

    I come from a Mormon family that also happens to be very multi-cultural. A number of people in my extended family have either married bi-racial members of the church, or adopted children from other races. Mormons are very accepting and loving of others. My daughter is bi-racial, (her father is black) and she has never experienced anything even closely resembling racism in our community, (which is about 50% LDS.) I often hear about the fact that until 1978, blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood, but you never hear about the fact that when Joseph Smith Jr. ran for President of the United States, part of his platform was to abolish slavery before Abraham Lincolm was even in office. (This was one of the things that made him very unpopular among the non-Mormons in Missouri, and may have eventually led to his assassination.) Compared to the sorted history of the Catholic Church, Mormon history is pristine. And I don't condone criticizing the Catholics either...I'm just saying, if you are looking for something to criticize, you are going to find it in any religion.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/28/2008 10:29:00 PM

      I BET YOUR GLAD YOU DON"T LIVE IN PRE-1978 MORMON WORLD, DON'T YOU. SORRY YOUR DAUGHTER WAS BORN CURSED-AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT MORMON DOCTRINE TEACHES.

      • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 11:23:27 PM

        HR didn't we cover this already? Your rantings and one-liner insults only serve to reveal the spirit of contention that you serve. You have no idea what Mormon doctorine is nor do you understand the teachings of the saviour - Charity, the pure love of Christ, acceptance, love for the sinner and all men. Here is a quote from one of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon to illustrate what life was like in a pre1978 Mormon world: "...and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile." 2 Nephi 26:33. That is the principle that every true latter-day saint lives by and has lived by since the 1800's when the Book of Mormon was finaly given to the world. The distribution of the Priesthood God has directed in different ways to different peoples at different times. The gospel wasn't even preached to anyone but the house of Isreal until after Christ's resurection. In Old Testament times, only the Levites carried that authority. And it wasn't until 1978 that the modern world was ready. Any delay was due to the wickedness of the world (the persecution that would have come on a Church that everyone was trying to destroy.)

  • Posted By: westobk @ 01/28/2008 11:09:31 PM

    Who decided that it was OK to tear down our faith? You can almost always count on the LDS people to lead the way in service and love to their fellow men. We consistently see other religions working hard to spread rumors and falsehoods about the church. I would just ask that you talk frankly with a member if you really want to know what we are about. There is nothing to be scared of, we are not scared to explain our faith. The cornerstone of our church is Jesus Christ and we strive to not just 'believe in' him we actually believe him when we read the Bible. Many members have the read the Bible from cover to cover more than once.
    If God does choose Thomas S. Monson as prophet the church membership will get a chance to sustain him and I promise that all the members already know this great man very well. We have in many cases seen him in person and if not we have heard him talk hundreds of times.

  • Posted By: if that then what @ 01/28/2008 11:01:08 PM

    Those who have commented below are certainly entitled to their opinon, even if the information is not accurate. As a man who has grown up in the church, served a mission, and who now, though struggling in many aspects of his life, is still sure that Gordon B. Hinkley was and is a man of God, a kind, generous, loving soul who cared deeply for the welfare of not only the LDS Church, but for all of God's children. Just as past Presidents of the Church have also been. I respect the feelings, beleifs and opinions of thsoe who do not share the LDS faith, but I challenge any of those who seek to discredit President Hinkley's intentions to watch him speak in any past Church Confernce, interview, or any recorded footage with an open heart and notice how you feel about him then. Like the Church or not, Gordon B. Hinkley (the man and the prophet) was a great man who never left any question as to his loyalty to and his love for his Savior Jesus Christ. We'll miss you dearly President Hinkley.

  • Posted By: gthornberg @ 01/28/2008 7:20:23 PM

    Google "Elise Soukup". This author is a Mormon and, as expected, writes only the positives about the LDS church which is easy to do for any religion especially if you are a member and careful enough to carve out inconvenient truths such as the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Although Joseph Smith is called a martyr, he died with a pistol in his hand, something reminiscent of Islamic ???martyrs???. Unlike Jesus who died with no sword or club in his hand, Joseph Smith and his trail of followers make no apology for the violent expansion of its religion and clashes with the US government in the 1830s. The reader is encouraged to look up secular historical authors on this religion that are surer to be unbiased and shed truth on a religion based on sweeping its issues under the rug. For more information on the negatives, Google the following: ???Mountain Meadow Massacre???, ???Joseph Smith???, ???Mormon Militia???, and the scandal behind the ???Book of Abraham???.

    • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 7:48:40 PM

      Hey wait a minute! Is the author only focusing on the positives, or are individuals like you doing nothing but trying to find negatives? I saw nothing positive or unbiased in your comments. This was an article about the passing of a humble, beloved, and caring man who affected millions of people in a positive way. At what point was she supposed to talke about all aspects of church doctorine and history? Again, take a look on what you are focusing. To be so focused on the negative to need to bring it up in this forum??? Unbeliveable! A pistol in his hand? You know you are distorting the truth and if you are in the right, why would you need to do that. Clashes with a governement that was inacting crimes against the constitution - crimes of bigotry, intolerance, and in some cases, attempted genocide. Mountain Meadows was a group of Mormons who acted indipendently and contrary to the direction of the church. Mormon Militian never actually did anything and there is no trufull controversy over the Book of Abraham. As far as sweeping under the rug... It took the Nazis to come along before the world had seen atrocities greater than what was done by the churches during the Dark Ages.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/28/2008 10:41:20 PM

        Its obvious you are blind to truth. The basis to your cult was revealed in the garden. "You shall not surely die, you shall be as gods." Godd lie goes a long way.

  • Posted By: Coupe0024 @ 01/28/2008 5:19:20 PM

    i'm always amazed at how much non-mormons regard themselves as mormon experts. as a lifelong mormon, i notice huge omissions, falsities and outright lies in "HolyRoller"'s comments. to say that we believe jesus and the devil are brothers is only a partial truth. Mormons believe that Lucifer is a fallen angel, and that he is our brother in the same way that all men are our brothers, in that he was created by God the Father. Mormons do not believe that God was once a man and that there are more powerful God's above him. We believe that there is one true Eternal God and that he is the father of Jesus Christ. We believe that Jesus is the same Jesus in the Bible. He made the atoning sacrifice that made it possible for all men to be forgiven for their sins. The Trinity ( We call it the Godhead) consists of God the Eteranal Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. We recognize each as a seperate being, but not as God's. And lastly we do not believe that all other churches are the churches of the Devil. Nothing could be further from the truth. We beieve that all churches have some of the truth, but that we are the only ones who have the full truth. We respect other religions and do not teach contempt for an of them, even if some of our membes do feel contempt, it is on a personal basis and not church doctrine.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/28/2008 10:24:05 PM

      Want to read a few of good ol' Joe Smith's doctrines. You may find them enlightening. Na, I'm sure they are mistranslated.

  • Posted By: sbond @ 01/28/2008 6:52:55 PM

    rybo74@ 6:39, I second that motion, amen and amen!

    AH1986, " I can tell that there is a little dislike or perhaps misunderstanding about why women are not allowed to hold the priesthood.as eluded to in this article The answer in my opinion is this. They don't need it. The reason men have the priesthood in addition to allow them to act in the name of Christ, is to teach them qualities that women already possess. Kindness, unconditional love, patience, how to care selflessly day after day for those under their charge. Myself, and as a part of the doctrine of the church, we hold women in the highest regard and honor. "

    I like the basis of your theory but I don't buy that it serves as the restriction on women being leaders in the church as priesthood. Jesus would not support that decision, he calls and uses whom ever he wants whenever he wants no boundaries; remember the donkey that spoke to the prophet? No restrictions brother.

    • Posted By: alexandra8907 @ 01/28/2008 8:16:47 PM

      i don't see it as restricting. not in the least bit.

    • Posted By: MnMtm @ 01/28/2008 8:12:35 PM

      I am a female member of the church, and so thought that my thoughts on this topic may be welcomed. I in no way feel slighted at not being able to hold the priesthood, anymore than my husband feels slighted that I am the one able to carry and bear our children. We believe that a man cannot be whole without a woman, nor can a woman be whole without a man. Together, we have all the blessings that are given to both male and female, including, but not only, the preisthood, and the ability to bear children. It is God who made men and women different from each other, and there is nothing wrong, nor unequal about being different. We each have equally important roles, and are equal partners.

  • Posted By: happydad333 @ 01/28/2008 7:57:11 PM

    FYI, If you want to use the past to tell the future look at the Catholics, I don't look at a Catholic and say well they are evil because hundreds of years ago they killed innocent people or oh.. look at the catholics I bet all the priests molest the children. Why not look at the wonderful things that the mormons are doing now to help people.

  • Posted By: happydad333 @ 01/28/2008 7:39:02 PM

    I grew up in the Mormon Church (Salt Lake City) but I am not currently active. I have a great respect for this church and if I had a religious bone in my body this would be the only church I would be part of. In no way at any time was I told "all others are the church of the devil". I was taught to respect everyone and every church. I have also never been told that the bible is wrong and I was an active member in the church until I was 20. One thing that is over looked about this church is how Christ-like the members act. A Mormon would not think twice to help anyone in need no matter what church they belong to. When I hear what people say about this church I just become sick...If you are not a member you don't know enough to say for a fact what they believe. And being hateful in not very Christ-like.

  • Posted By: Spencer2323 @ 01/28/2008 7:34:18 PM

    I am Mormon. I was born and raised in Utah. I'd like to thank Elise Soukup for writing a fair and balanced article. I've read past articles in Newsweek involving Mormonism and they are typically not accurate. Thanks Elise!

  • Posted By: TELLTHETRUTH @ 01/28/2008 6:59:17 PM

    im no mormon. they do good works. but they are in gross error as far them thinking the next voted president is endorsed by God. God doesnt choose spiritual offices based on our votes. anyway....whatever u want to know is already in the bible. there is nothing that happened or is bound to happen that is not in the scriptures. no man on earth is ordained by other men and layed hands on to be a prophet. the spiritual office/gift of a prophet is given to a person specifically by Almighty God alone. the mormons may select an adminstrative spiritual overseer to handle the affairs of the executive branch of the denominaytion however.
    as far as "last days" there is nothing to "fore" tell. there isnt. we dont need an update on the middle east. we already know the "signs" wil come from that area and no one knows any specifics anway. also who is this character Moroni and what is the background on that character? Joseph Smith was having a bad day being tormented.

    • Posted By: mlfurm @ 01/28/2008 7:26:55 PM

      Interesting thoughts though extremely misinformed. First this isn't the pope. There are no votes cast, only prayer and direct revelation to the twelve apostles on who the Lord has called to be the new prophet and president. You're not paying attention... Also if men are not called of God by the laying on of hands then does that mean you beleive that none of the four additional apostles chosen after Christ's resurection (to replace those apostles who had died or been killed) were not truely called of God? Keep in mind that would mean Paul was not called of God as well... Search the scriptures and you will find the method God uses to call men to be his disciples. I'm sure that God is pleased to hear you telling him what he can and can not do, that he has nothing important left to tell the children of men...

    • Posted By: sbond @ 01/28/2008 7:19:10 PM

      Bravo, how insightful!

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