Whose Fault Is This?

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  • Posted By: susanshore @ 01/29/2008 11:22:42 PM

    what ever happened to personal responsibility! People have become victims in every aspect of their pitiful lives. suck it up and grow up you whiners

  • Posted By: susanshore @ 01/29/2008 11:20:44 PM

    what ever happened to personal responsibility! People have become victims in every aspect of their pitiful lives. suck it up and grow up you whiners

  • Posted By: cpr1274 @ 01/29/2008 8:59:26 PM

    I still hear no one placing any blame on the consumer. When rates dipped to "40 year lows", how many consumers lowered their payment on the home they lived in versus how many that bought more house? They saw what they could get for the same payment and liked it. Then they saw how much more house they could get for just a few hundred dollars more per month, and liked it even more. I bet their friends were so jealous.

    I saw on the news tonight the average American has 9 credit cards. They interviewed a couple that said the $20,000 in debt keeps them from doing what they want to do. It sounds like they did $20k worth of things they wanted. Accountability is a dwindling trait anymore.

  • Posted By: Caocao8888 @ 01/29/2008 8:49:48 PM

    Caveat emptor. Buyer beware. A person old enough to buy a house has to be sophisticated enough to exercise due diligence. "I didn't know..." "They didn't tell me..." "I just needed a bigger place.." These and a million similar comments you read everday are what a child might make, not a well-educated adult in the strongest and richest nation the world has ever seen. No one gives me back the money I've shelled out on bad business deals over the years, but I've picked up the pieces, learned from my mistakes, and forged ahead. No one owes you or me a thing.

  • Posted By: GeorgeDiScala @ 01/29/2008 8:25:53 PM

    Well I hope to buy my first home in New York soon. I have not bought one until now because the prices were over inflated by weekend real estate brokers. Until a few months ago you could not ask any real estate broker the price of a bent garbage can, that you would here the real estate agent say "this is a prime garbage can in a prime location in a prime city. Tou are going to need at least a million dollars" Well I would like to buy a home at forclosed prices posibly the last owner being a real estate agent

  • Posted By: bill50 @ 01/29/2008 6:11:35 PM

    I am a real estate agent that currently helps people in foreclosure. I have done this for going on seven years. I can tell you the mess we are in is the lenders fault and will not get better until the lenders get the idea that we the tax payers will not bail them out. In my business I try to get deeds in lieu for people, getting the lender to take the home back for what is owed, and forebearances, getting the people back on track to make their payments. In both instances I find the lenders, to include Countrywide, very difficult to work with. We also sell these homes for people but with the falling market most own more than it is worth. For these we have to do what is called a short sale. That is getting the lender to take less than what is owed. It is a fair market value and we try to do this before the lender does the foreclosure. I have offered a major lender $245000 for a home and the lender turn us down. They then spent $59,000 to foreclose and put the home on the market for $199,000. Losing money like this does not make sense but it happens all the time.
    Not all people that are going through this process are bad people. A lot of them were lied to when they purchased the home or lost a job, illness or a divorce. Lenders are unwilling to work with these people or want everything they have. I did one Short sale before the foreclosure where the client had a job if they had a foreclosure or a bankruptcy they lost their job. The lender took everything they could and then said they would have to give the lender their 401K. I explained to the lender that this was all the money this family had for any other emergency. The lenders exact words were "We don't care give it to us or we will foreclose and Mr. ____________ will lose his job." The lender knew that this was a case of fraud but still did not care. Fortunately this lender has closed their doors.
    Countrywide will not do a short sale unless they have a purchase agreement. Once you send them the paperwork it they will not look at it for 21 business days. This is how long it takes them to assign the packet to someone. It then takes 45 business days for them to answer you. Most buyers will not wait that long at least not in this state. So Countrywide forecloses and losses even more money.
    Lenders have created this problem because of their greed and because of their attitude and unwillingness to work with anyone they will lose billions more than they have to. The only people who will make money out of this are the lenders CEO's

    • Posted By: SDDan @ 01/29/2008 6:43:09 PM

      "I am a real estate agent that currently helps people in foreclosure. I have done this for going on seven years. I can tell you the mess we are in is the lenders fault and will not get better until the lenders get the idea that we the tax payers will not bail them out."

      Unfortunately it is not up to the taxpayer. Just look at the backdoor stuff in the new one time tax rebate deal that is soon to get approved. Yep the goverment (ie Fannie Mae) will be buying up all those bad jumbo loans from lenders like Countrywide, etc as soon as it gets passed. Guess who will be paying the massive debt that Fannie Mae will eventually rack up from owning all the bad/defaulted mortgages? Yep the taxpayer.

  • Posted By: retmilvet @ 01/29/2008 6:16:32 PM

    It is hard to believe that adults - who should know better - belived all the garbage associated with int. only and other low payment setups. At some time you have to pay the piper! Perhaps--- those that really did not know and only have one loan against their primary residence need some help. But that should come from the mortage industry that created the mess, not the Fed. Govt. and utimately the taxpayer. Sheezz, if you bail out all the speculators as well than why not pass on help to those of us who do OR did act responsibility and bought within our means/budget and yet because of this boondoggle have lost 100 of thousands in value in such a short time? Who is reimbursuing us for the hefty downpayments that we took out of SAVINGS to finance our dream(s). If the FED does a bailout then they should just as well provide a tax break to those of us who play by the rules and realize that a house is more than a get rich quick scheme, but a home to reside in. Sorry I do not have any sympathy for someone having to give up items not of neccessity. A home is a necessity, yet to have all the equity that you placed into it, at closing, vanish within a few short months is a hard pill to swallow and the blame lies with the housing industry, not the homeowner. However if I had the annual income --or better yet-- the Golden parachutes that have been discussed in this article, perhaps this would not be an issue at all.

  • Posted By: sksforchange @ 01/29/2008 5:59:40 PM

    How do you know who is suffering and who is not? In your big "six years" of lending what did you see? Im guessing you did not hack it which is why your not in the business! 20 years of doing this, then you can say you see ALOT! The support staff never have been paid a huge salary to begin with, but I witnessed first hand the underwriters, processors, closers and assistants work themselves ragged to get the loans closed for the consumer! Labeling everyone as greedy is unfair! Wake up and look at the whole picture! Oh wait, six years makes you the expert you already have it all figured out!

    • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 6:15:36 PM

      I am looking at the whole picture. What I saw was unchecked and unregulated greed that put us into the situation that we have presently. Though I am sure during your 20 years in the industry greed never motivated you right? I am sure every loan that you wrote was because of your deep sense of altruism right?

      ps: Being a loan officer you might need a dictionary to figure out what 'altruism' means. Look it up though...you might be pleasantly surprised!

  • Posted By: matsci @ 01/29/2008 5:58:04 PM

    Just wondering. If, instead of firing Mozilo, BofA just demoted him to the mailroom with a minimum-wage salary, couldn't they avoid the severance package? Clearly, he was no longer capable of responsibly doing his job, so a demotion is certainly in order. If he doesn't like it, he can quit. No severance needed. This just seems so obvious to me, I can't figure out why it isn't done except that the new CEO wouldn't want it done to him., but it cedrtainly would be much better for shareholders.

  • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:06:57 PM

    What a sad day indeed when the crooks in the mortgage industry cant afford to send their kids to ballet lessons or horseback riding lessons. I mean what is this world coming too?

    • Posted By: sksforchange @ 01/29/2008 5:33:21 PM

      Wow! People can be cruel! Not all lenders and loan officers are bad people! Maybe all this person wanted to say is that there are a lot of people behind the scenes that really want to make a difference! If you asked this person if they had to sacrafice more than horseback riding and ballet. I would be willing to bet they have suffered greatly and that was just good writing to get a rise out of you which it worked!! Good grief, someones income gets cut in half and they cut out riding lessons and ballet? I am a loan officer myself and will be life! I have seen first hand what that would cause and would be willing to bet that their situation is far worse than led on here! Educate yourselves instead of blaming! Its amazing what you will learn!.

      • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:46:57 PM

        I am educated on the situation...I spent six years in the industry. After witnessing all that greed first hand I just cant find any sympathy for someone who cannot afford to send their kids to horseback riding lessons. Boo hoo. How about the parents who are paying a high rate mortgage that you wrote that cant even afford to feed their kids? Home ownership is the American dream - the mortgage industry has turned that dream into a nightmare.

    • Posted By: loanofficer#1 @ 01/29/2008 5:18:37 PM

      your comment is so pathetically ignorant that I almost died of embarassment for you

      • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:24:44 PM

        How is that ignorant? I am supposed to feel sorry for someone who was sending their kids to something that parents who dont work for a crooked industry cant afford to do? I used to work in the mortgage industry and I am so glad that I am out of it. Immoral loan officers ripping off seniors and minorities - there is a special place in hell for them if you ask me.

        • Posted By: loanofficer#1 @ 01/29/2008 5:31:35 PM

          she wasn't a loan officer, sounds like she was a processor. you are making broad sweeping generalizations of a problem that is complex on so many levels. i live and work in Michigan. People here lost there jobs because the auto industry didn't compete, That caused foreclosures, and home values to plummet, and lot's of people can't refinance now because their homes aren't what worth what they owe. But I guess that makes me a crook because I work in the mortgage industry. You sound like a bitter troll who couldn't hack it in a commission only gig to me and never understood the first thing about this business, just like so many who in here who are running their mouths, pointing fingers, and making overly simplistic generalizations that is a multi faceted problem. And why is it just the seniors and minorities that you think were taken advantage of by immoral loan officers...again, you have painted yourself into a tiny little corner without any basis for your rationale other than your own glaring bias.

          • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:41:09 PM

            If the industry and appraisers (often in the pocket of the industry) would have actually given these financed properties true value in the first place maybe this wouldnt have happened. Trust me on that. I have encountered first hand many loan officers 'suggesting' what a home is worth and the appraiser writing it up that way. I was in the business for six years so to say that I didnt understand the business is completely wrong. And I saw what I saw....who are you to argue with that?

      • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:27:10 PM

        You 'almost died'? So wouldnt that make one less scumbag loan officer trolling the planet? And the problem with that is what exactly?

  • Posted By: Doug75 @ 01/29/2008 5:05:21 PM

    Too bad the crooks...oops....individuals in the mortgage industry cant send their kids to ballet and horseback riding lessons. When will the insanity stop? I mean what is this world coming to?

  • Posted By: samhome @ 01/29/2008 3:28:14 PM

    Greed. It was located in all levels of the home industry. Appraisers, brokers and agents were the front line. However, it was the banks utimately who are at fault as they are/were profitting from selling loans. They had no reason to worry as they were passing the buck. But they were the business interest controlling the flow of money. I would pass a law preventing high risk, adj rate mortgages from being sold. They must be held by the original lender. It would still be legal to sell 15,20, 25 and 30 year fixed mortgages. Finally the lender must hold a percentage of all loans. Selling loans on the stock market is junk to me. I can buy shares of the bank. Why do i need to buy the junk they are selling.

    • Posted By: garelj @ 01/29/2008 5:04:06 PM

      I agree this guy dooesnt know what he talking about. "would pass a law preventing high risk, adj rate mortgages from being sold. " Guess what, then that means the banks would not orginate them and you just ruined the market for ARM's. I'm a proud owner of a 5/1 ARM (1st home) and 5/1 ARM Int Only (2nd home), with both having 20% down payments and documented income to qualify for both loans. I have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars due to these and look forward to refing shortely to save even more. Your proposal would have not made this possible and taken my choice of freedom out of the equation. Don't even get me started on holding a % of loans. Just like prostitutes, if there is not a market for them the product would dry up. Its the I-banks and Inst Investors job to do the due dilligence. In fact, the banks are the least at fault as they just funneled the loans through so that more loans could be orginated as mandated by the government.

    • Posted By: mdvulpio.rtmtg@juno.com @ 01/29/2008 3:46:27 PM

      This guy probabl can't read his mortgage papers. He certainly hasn't read the papers. If the banks were "profiteering", how come they all lost huge amounts of money in this mess? The "original lender" didn't come up with the demand for the loans. Wall Street wanted to sell something with a higher yield than your average CD and therre is no free lunch. High risk, high reward. Anyone who bought the mortgage paper was taking the risk. The people who lost "their" houses (no downpayment and no income sufficient to make the payments) should have stayed in apartments. They should consider the payments they made as rent. The damage to their credit ratings was entirely self-inflicted.

  • Posted By: newsman9 @ 01/29/2008 4:13:41 PM

    It's a shame that the media and homeowners themselves all collectively point the finger of blame at lenders and mortgage brokers. Yes there are some dishonest people in the industry, as in all industries, however most are honest and did what their clients asked. The blame is more so everyone's fault equally ; from the homeowners who either mis managed their debt or used their homes as atms for cash and refinanced to the lenders who made it very easy to obtain mortgages.

    • Posted By: SDDan @ 01/29/2008 4:19:27 PM

      It is comical watching mortgage brokers rationalize things.

      I have a 6 year old that asks for all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean I should give it to him. Mortgage brokers gave what their clients asked for because they made a ton of money for doing so.

      • Posted By: loanofficer#1 @ 01/29/2008 4:53:00 PM

        it's comical hearing you compare your 6 year old wanting a piece of candy or a toy to an adult making the largest financial decision of their life.......

        • Posted By: SDDan @ 01/29/2008 4:59:41 PM

          Yes because in retrospect it is apparant that adults in the United States are capable of making responsible decsions in regards to their finances.

  • Posted By: rvrent @ 01/29/2008 4:50:36 PM

    One giant ponzi scheme.....fist in first out make the money; last in last out pay for it all..........Construction companies making gigantic profits and providing full employment, mortage brokers making 2-3K a day.....hedge funds showing big returns.........not to mention the bank points, realtor commissions, escrow fees, appraiser fees, pre-pay penalties and a host of other leeches making money on paper. Offering "Americas dream" for no money down was just too good for the uneducated to pass up....That's the reason we have banking laws and regulations to prevent systematic abuses of the system. This is what to expect when unleash unregulated capitalism on an uneducated public.

  • Posted By: apust @ 01/29/2008 4:38:25 PM

    Most of the comments provided here offer much to be learned from. Although many of the comments are a response to another's comments made, they both appear to be right. Mortgage lending is much like any other profession, it provides a service that in return for a fee, improves the lifestyle of the client/customer. Many in the mortgage lending industry approached their clients with the insensitive attitude of "I will never see them again, or never put a face to their client(s) since many deals were done via email/phone/fax/mail. This impersonates the deal and may I add accountability. Why is the personal element important? Because, when a doctor sees the patient before surgery, he understands a soul lies in his or her hands. Many mortgage lenders did not care about this element and still don't. Instead, they just collected paystubs/w-2s and a bank statement that looked good that month because it just happened to be tax return time, not taking into consideration this person gets layed off regularly and lives from month to month and on a prayer. The mortgage professionals job is to make a face-to-face interview with the client and determine if this person is not only qualified, but to also determine if this person is financially established enough to make payments on a house, not to mention the up keep that can unexpected arise. Buy a home is a big, big deal. It is the place families are raised, relatives meet on holidays, and identities are established. For one to lose thier house is one of the most degrading experiences for parents and children. It often leads to divorce, drug abuse and so forth. In addition, it affects the extended family who may have to take in the family for a while as well as pets that may be abandoned. I believe the problem we have on our hands today is a prime example of what happends when a profession is reduced to fast food service. Alot of thought, research, interviewing, and verification must go into the process because a wrong decision can determine the direction of peoples lives, an economy and perhaps even the country. A few failed ventures are expected in the industry, but a collosal of foreclosures will be devastating. -From a mortgage loan professional who has been in the business for 11 years.

  • Posted By: rvrent @ 01/29/2008 4:37:17 PM

    one giant ponzi scheme.....first in first out make the money, last in last out have an empty basket.....everyone saw it coming but no one could stop the train.....construction companies providing full employment and making gigantic profits, mortgage brokers making 2-3k a day, investors seeing huge returns in their hege funds and the unsophistacted consumer getting his lifes dream for "no money down".......Greenspan's legacy.

  • Posted By: mortgagemess @ 01/29/2008 4:17:05 PM

    It's the Freakin Brokers!!! FRAUD, they feel it's OK to forge documents and lie in order to obtain a loan approval......END OF STORY!!!

    Signed by a WAMU U/W

    • Posted By: loanofficer#1 @ 01/29/2008 4:35:57 PM

      didn't WAMU offer all kinds of NINA programs...perhaps you still do. typical underwriter....blame the broker first. take a good long look in the mirror and put down the kool aid your company is serving you....

  • Posted By: LafKen @ 01/29/2008 4:33:14 PM

    It is easy to blame others, but all of these "victims" need to take responsibility too. Owning a home is one of the most critical financial decision people will make, yet it was taken so lightly. Homeowners are to blame for not understanding the terms and conditions and the mortgage industry is at fault for preying upon this stupidity and offering credit to high-risk clients. The fact that some mortgage lenders didn't even confirm applicant's salaries and work history is incredible to me. It amazed me when fresh-out-of-college coworkers got big, interest only loans without any credit history. They never once believed that this bubble would burst, just like the dot.coms. It is really difficult to feel bad for anyone that got involved in this mess.

  • Posted By: mortgagemess @ 01/29/2008 4:20:07 PM

    Don't borrower what you can't afford. No more than 45% of your gross pay should be for debts! Period you moron, now you want the banks to forgive past due amts and have the Fed's bail you out....Losers

  • Posted By: stevenbhorse @ 01/29/2008 4:18:36 PM

    occums razor says the fault lies with the fed.

    thoguhts??

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