Taxing Our Patience

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  • Posted By: crecentnola @ 01/30/2008 3:06:35 PM

    Lentzman: The tax cuts were not designed to pay for themselves. Nor do I believe in the argument that stimulated growth will wipe out any deficit spending. The combination of fiscal restraint and lower taxes (for everyone) is the only way to make it work. But do not say that the deficit was due only to the tax cuts. They were due to a recession and a war, both in the Regan and Bush administration. The tax burden does not get pushed to others. I have no problem paying my fair share in taxes, even if the definition of fair these days is to require successful people to pay more in percentage terms than anyone else.

    And to XENAPeel, we are already a debtor nation... to late! But if you increase taxes on anyone, all you do is hamper the will to earn money and increase the drive to avoid the taxes.

    • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:12:47 PM

      crecentnola...the more you make, the more you should pay in taxes and if your income comes from dividends and interest rather than a paycheck, you should pay even more. Those that benefit the most from society have an obligation to give back to that society otherwise we are no better than animals.

      • Posted By: BlueMooninGA @ 01/30/2008 3:43:03 PM

        And so those that pay more should also pay for those that won't work? I've read a few of your posts and if you're not a communist I don't know who is. Go read the communist manifesto and then read one of the dems speeches. They sound eerily alike.

        How do you feel about the fair tax?

        • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:54:23 PM

          So you think I'm a communist??? Perhaps you should go back and read a little history before you start calling me a communist. Let's see...you could go back to the Republican induced Great Depression of the 1930's for starters. Read your history and talk to some people who lived through that time. I know my parents and grandparents lived through it. There were no safety nets for people back then...no welfare no Social Security. People just starved or lived on the streets. I still see the effects of it on my parents today and they are in their 80's. I also know that the United States as we know it today almost collapsed into a dictatorship because of it. President Roosevelt instituted programs that saved this country and in the process created a very strong middle class where there wasn't one before. You need to stop putting labels on people because of your own ideology and start educating yourself in our history.

  • Posted By: elwin9 @ 01/30/2008 3:12:46 PM

    People with these ideas must believe that higher income earners are incredibly stupid and will continue to exert themselves at the same level in order to fill the public treasury.

    Eight years ago, I put pencil to paper and calculated that federal and state taxes, together with the estate tax at my death, would leave my kids a quarter out of every dollar I would have made by continuing to work.

    I haven't worked since. How many small businesses are not expanded for the same reason?

    • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:19:18 PM

      Oh by the way....the truly wealthy don't pay taxes. They have all kinds of foundations and trusts to shield them from many taxes. Also many businesses go overseas to avoid taxes. I agree that small business owners get hit very hard with taxes and there should be consideration given in tax breaks to small businesses but I can guarantee you that the large corporations are paying nowhere near their fair share.

      • Posted By: BlueMooninGA @ 01/30/2008 3:41:13 PM

        You do realize that less than 30% of the population pays almost 100% of the taxes right?

        • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:48:25 PM

          Not all taxes are income taxes....there are sales, use, fees, fines etc....I would say 100% of the population pays taxes in one form or the other.

          • Posted By: BlueMooninGA @ 01/30/2008 3:51:07 PM

            That's true, but in terms of income taxes this is true. How do you feel about the fair tax?

  • Posted By: crecentnola @ 01/30/2008 2:32:53 PM

    The more you raise taxes on the rich, the more they spend to elude those taxes. To increase the LEVEL of tax receipts you must decrease taxes. It sounds weird but if you lower the tax rate you have less incentive to evade taxes, so the higher earners actually pay more in taxes on an aggregate level.

    On the issue of capital gains taxes, it does no good to caste this in the rich vs poor light. Many middle class families have taxable investment accounts, one of the best ways to build weath. Reverting to higher capital gains and dividend taxes will affect middle class workers and retirees who rely on their dividend payments.

    The problem with all of this is the guy delivering the message, no one trusts Bush. The same can be said for the war in Iraq. We need to hear more from Petraus, who is winning the war!

    • Posted By: Summer Breeze @ 01/30/2008 2:41:29 PM

      Amen to that. Who in their right minds would trust Bush? Can't wait to see him go. He has a legacy "the worst president the US has ever had." That is his legacy

      • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 2:53:33 PM

        The problem is.....people with money need to pay taxes. That's what keeps this country going. You can't continue to give tax breaks to the wealthier people in the US to the detriment of the working class and the elderly who depend on their Social Security. The reason Social Security is being threatened is just because of the tax cuts Bush enacted. The strategy behind this Administration has always been to raid Social Security then say it is danger of collapsing because of Baby Boomers. Of course the only solution is to privatize the system thereby destroying the most successful program in US history. Bottom line.....people at the high end of the income scale and all those who are lucky enough to even have interest and dividend income have to pay substantial taxes on their income. It's called a progressive tax system.

        • Posted By: BlueMooninGA @ 01/30/2008 3:47:00 PM

          Um, actually Clinton first brought up the Social Security crisis. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument. You seem to be having a good time.

  • Posted By: freemarket @ 01/30/2008 3:46:02 PM

    Giving tax cuts to the people that pay all the taxes??

    That is almost as crazy as suggesting we give tax "rebates" to people that do not pay taxes. Oh, wait.....

  • Posted By: freemarket @ 01/30/2008 3:44:44 PM

    Giving tax cuts to the people that pay all the taxes? How unfair! /end sarcasm

    Better idea...lets give tax "rebates" to people that do not pay taxes. Oh, wait......

  • Posted By: The Other Steve @ 01/30/2008 3:20:05 PM

    I sat down and calculated that if I continued to work, I would have to pay taxes to the Government. So I quit my job and now live off welfare. Sure, I don't enjoy the luxuries of a house and a car, but i don't have to pay taxes and that is what counts.

    I'd vote for GW Bush again if I had the choice. He taught me the true meaning of what being an American is all about.

    • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:26:22 PM

      Being an American means that you pay your fair share in taxes for the conveniences you enjoy such as roads, bridges, police, fire departments, regulations on the food and drug industry to keep you safe, the national defense, you own state's defense, clean drinking water, etc.....who do you think pays for those things??? Or do you think you are so much better than everyone else that you shouldn't have to contribute to society in order to live in it?? How arrogant are you....

      • Posted By: BlueMooninGA @ 01/30/2008 3:38:17 PM

        The average American pays 45% of their income in some form of tax. I'm not ready to pay more in taxes. And where is the motivation for doing better in .life financially if it's just going to be taxed away? That's communism at it's finest. Frankly, the smaller the government is the better. The spending of government needs to get under control but we don't need higher taxes.

  • Posted By: liechtimatthew @ 01/30/2008 3:29:26 PM

    Does it matter whether it is a small tax rise or a large one i dont want to pay more. Another thing if our national debt is so high that maybe we should start think about spending money on ourselve and not on the rest of the world. We spend millions every year to provide other countries aid add that money up and put it to our debt and im sure it will go away a lot quiker. We should start being a little selfish i think who comes first? in my book its number one and thats us.

  • Posted By: tgrass @ 01/30/2008 3:29:13 PM

    JW doesn't represent me. I hope that most of the country is not as incompetent and easily played as he is. He is not "in charge" of this administration, nor does he have any original ideas. Although I disagree with almost everything that this administration represents, I believe his legacy was directed by Cheney.

  • Posted By: liechtimatthew @ 01/30/2008 3:22:50 PM

    Just because it wont be much of a tax increase i dont want it the less i have to pay the better. If our national debt is so high then maybe we should stop sending millions upon millions of dollars over seas to help everyone else and instead help ourselves first.

  • Posted By: bpjm53 @ 01/30/2008 3:20:04 PM

    While your politics may not be in line with the author, the numbers he has put forth are accurate.
    There isn't enough money at the low end of the economy to increase consumer spending overall. We NEED to balance the budget, or at least get closer than we are now.
    We have funded the war by attracting foreign investment in our currency. As its value has faded, we run the risk of a sell-off, leading to an increase in interest rates, whic would be disastrous as we try to avoid a recession.
    Even true conservatives are embarrassed by Bush's fiscal irresponsibility.
    Thsi is not a partisan issue.
    His policies have failed, and if continued, will lead to a deep, long recession beginning shortly after the short-term effects of the stimulus begin to wear off.

  • Posted By: BorincanoDC @ 01/30/2008 3:19:25 PM

    Notice that when he told his "joke" about the federal government accepting checks and money orders, he didn't place it in the context of a much more real world choice: "Pay me a small amount now, or pay me later for the rest of your working life."
    Alas, Americans make this choice over and over again, paying off the minimum on their credit card bills after buying things they can't afford... but if the President said, "OK... I can either ask you to pay less now and I'll just borrow the shortfall, or get you to pay a little more now and get out of short-term debt," wouldn't that be a more honest choice than the one he gives us?

  • Posted By: Phil M. @ 01/30/2008 3:18:17 PM

    George W. Bush is a war criminal and should be impeached, tried and imprisoned.

  • Posted By: Phil M. @ 01/30/2008 3:17:42 PM

    Bush is a war criminal and should be put on trial and imprisoned.

  • Posted By: bbandtb @ 01/30/2008 3:13:06 PM

    Did your mommy hold you as a child?

  • Posted By: bbandtb @ 01/30/2008 3:11:43 PM

    Did your mommy hold you when you were a child?

  • Posted By: teagug @ 01/30/2008 3:11:15 PM

    .......spoken like a true liberal Democrat!

  • Posted By: teagug @ 01/30/2008 3:10:42 PM

    ...spoken like a true Democrat!

  • Posted By: Lindie @ 01/30/2008 3:06:46 PM

    Do you really think President Bush is misleading us and we can't figure that out ahead of time?

  • Posted By: concertsupply @ 01/30/2008 3:06:26 PM

    Fools rush in... study before you write, PLEASE. Tax cuts under Reagan and Bush produced new revenue due to growth. That our elected officials spent it quicker than we could pay is the issue, and has been for decades. The solution is NEVER to give the government more money. They will ALWAYS overspend. Facts overwhelm opinion.

  • Posted By: lentzman @ 01/30/2008 2:45:19 PM

    To Crecentnola: The supply side theory of lower taxes resulting in higher revenues has now been tested twice, under Reagan and now Bush, and the results have been the same: massive increases in the federal debt to make up for the revenue shortfall caused by the reduction of tax revenues. We now have ample evidence this theory is simply not true. The true believers will not change their thinking and will attempt to explain away the irrefutable results, because their actual goal is not to increase revenues, but to push the tax burden to others.

    • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/30/2008 3:00:19 PM

      lentzman....I agree wholeheartedly with you. Lower taxes resulting in higher revenue is just a scheme to get the wealthiest among us off the hook for taxes while placing that burden on lower income individuals. Of course no one is even talking about the devastating impact the AMT (alternative minimun tax) has on working families. It's the government's dirty little secret. Of course the wealthiest among us who live entirely off dividends and interest pay the least tax, 15% ,while the working people who rely on their paychecks for existence get socked with upwards of 35%. It's the biggest scam going but it works everytime. All Bush has to do is say tax cut and poor Joe and Jane working stiff think he means them. Hah!!! Guess again!

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