CAMPAIGN 2008

Romney and Religion

Voters never felt sure of his core beliefs.

By Lisa Miller | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Updated: 7:09  p.m. ET Feb 7, 2008

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  • Posted By: Bigskycountry @ 02/14/2008 4:27:37 PM

    Wow, I knew there were biggots in the U.S.....I just didn't know there were so many! I recommend some of you go to sensitivity training at your place of employment whether that be Piggly-Wiggly or Wallmart I don't know. I have a Bible trivia question for all of the "do gooders" who like to beat down the Mormons. What scripture and verse does it say "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ...and who said this? Come on, I know you know the answer (Hint, the answer is in the New Testament). By the way, Romney lost because of a 4 to 5 man race that split the vote. If it would have been McCain V. Romney, Romney would have won. Exit polling clearly showed Romney was getting the conservative vote, the evangelical vote and the economic vote. Those are the facts. You can thank Huckabee and Thompson for any Romney loss. Do the math. Any comment to the contrary is just plain mean spirited and wrong.

  • Posted By: lbertybell @ 02/08/2008 3:30:03 AM

    It's not that LDS beliefs are strange, for those of other religions compare in every degree of strangeness except one. Mormon beliefs (as well as Scientologists') are rooted in much more recent history.and hence much easier to research. The actual authorship of Mormon documents can be fairly easily traced; look up Samuel Spaulding as the author of the Book of Mormon. Also look up the Book of Abraham, no longer treated as a Mormon canonical writing.

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 02/08/2008 10:12:15 AM

      That is so uninformed that it ALMOST doesn't merrit a response. See the following article. It's written by well respected Evangelical scholars (a scholar is different from you in that they actually research what it is they say before they actually say it). In this article they describe how evangelicals are losing the argument agains Mormons because most of the misconceptions are arguments agains the book of mormon have long ago been disproved...yet folks like you continue to spread the same old tire arguments.

      http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3803/is_199810/ai_n8808757/print

      • Posted By: joepublic @ 02/08/2008 11:21:31 AM

        I read the article you reference. Way to twist the truth, a typical LDS method. The article is a call to evangelicals to hone and refine the scholarly argument AGAINST Mormonism because the LDS church and BYU spend so much time, effort, and money trying to wrap your false doctrine into validity by using "scholars" and big theses as justification. So don't act like this article validates Mormonism. Next?

        • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 02/14/2008 1:28:12 PM

          Joepublic... which FALSE religion do you follow? I would suggest to you that you use the same criteria for self reflection. What validates your beliefs? I am sure we can pick it apart probably even better than you can pick at the LDS view.

    • Posted By: guitarplayer @ 02/08/2008 10:10:56 AM

      Nonsense. Those ancient, misguided attempts to lend some "explaination" to the writings are nothing more than ignorant and unsophisticated stereotypes that tend to play well amongst those who severly lack objectivity and reasonable scholarship. By the way, which "one" is not strange?

  • Posted By: doorman @ 02/08/2008 12:32:22 AM

    The Mormon religion and it's beliefs are no more strange than that of Scientology. Wait a second, Scientology has really strange beliefs, how can anyone with cognitive insight really believe the things that Scientology teaches? Exactly! That is the same question that many people couldn't help ask themselves deep down about Mitt Romney. Who know's, maybe some day the Scientologists will put forward a Harvard educated successful businessman as a Presidential candidate....

    • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/08/2008 1:10:34 AM

      Doorman-
      Perhaps you should use your "cognitive insight" and do a little more open-minded study. Your post tells me that your understanding of the doctrine, history and culture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is superficial and sensational. Anyone with "cognitive insight" should put it to good use and put in the time and effort to understand a religion before making a summary judgment of its doctrines or its members. Fear and misunderstanding breed hate. Don't hate! A good place to start your study is www.lds.org.

      • Posted By: doorman @ 02/08/2008 7:20:23 PM

        Hello PMcAllister, I have studied Mormonism judiciously. I have conversed with Mormon 'apologists' on the Fair website. Though I know that the actual beliefs of Mormonism and Scientology are worlds apart, the link is in the absurdity of their claims. I don't mean absurd because some of the things are accepted on a faith informed by reason. I mean absurd because most of the claims that should be archaeologically, historically or scientifically verified (DNA, Book of Abraham, Hill Camorah, reformed Egyptian, massive wars with weapons of steel ad naseaum), cannot in fact be verified. And in most cases, the exact opposite been supported by archeology, science and reason. That's why it's absurd, and that's why it can be likened to Scientology. Let alone the self absorbed attitude of the founders. Want to take another stab as to my knowledge of Mormonism????

        • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/08/2008 10:45:47 PM

          Hello Doorman, I am sorry if I offended your pride by questioning your knowledge of Mormonism. Clearly you have spent an inordinate amount of your time studying a subject that has no practical value to you. I really don't understand what motivates people to spend so much of their valuable free time seeking negativity.

          You missed a few key words in the advice I posted for you. Your impressive research resume belies the fact that your investigations have neither been "open-minded" nor have they truly been intended to "understand a religion." None of the evidence you have alluded to can be found in places that are sought out by "open-minded" seekers of true "understanding." But that was never actually your intention was it?

          Remember Doorman that the lack of irrefutable, verifiable, empirical evidence of the truth of something is VERY different from irrefutable, verifiable, empirical evidence of the falsehood of something. As I have posted in response to one of your partners in pointless study, I am interested to see the infallible evidence of the falsehood of the LDS church because I have never seen anything that does more than raise reasonable doubts about its truth. Meanwhile, you are claiming that you have some evidence of the absolute falsehood of Mormonism that is not only beyond reasonable doubt (by LDS believers) but so absolute that it has come from the Source and Judge of absolute truth Himself.

          I will say to you as I did to your co-critic, the only "truth" is that there is no irrefutable evidence of the truth or falsehood of religion. If such evidence existed there wouldn't be so much time wasted on boards like this with people impugning each others' beliefs. Nor would their be so many generational conflicts and wars around the world with religious underpinnings. The truth would be evident and there would be nothing to refute.

          Doorman, I don't want to "take a stab" at you or your knowledge of Mormonism. I want you to use your time more productively, and go to the Source to verify truth. I challenge you to do that with your own religion and any other you may encounter. Get on your knees after an honest, open-minded study, and ask God if what you have studied is true or not, and stop wasting your time trying to find empirical evidence for or against religion. Until you do that you will only be living evidence of Paul's prophecy of those in the "last days" who would spend their time "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7).

          • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 02/13/2008 9:59:18 PM

            PMcAllister, great post. But you are wasting your time. Just reading doorman's post is evidence enought that he has "No knowledge of Mormonism" as he is trying to lead everyone to believe. It is pretty much casting your pearls before swine.

      • Posted By: magic823 @ 02/08/2008 10:41:10 AM

        A better place is exmormon.org

        • Posted By: theLogicalOne @ 02/08/2008 11:23:20 AM

          The best place is Wikipedia. it is edited for neutrality to remove the bias of either side

          • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/09/2008 8:53:17 PM

            WIKIPEDIA!!!!? Wikipedia is not a valid source. It has it's uses, but you ALWAYS verify anything you get off of it. People put up hoax topics. Do a little digging and you will find articles about the Wikipediia entries of wars in Canada that NEVER HAPPENED.

  • Posted By: Survivor-mi50 @ 02/13/2008 9:39:10 AM

    Let's face it, there's not one candidate who's qualified or capalble of doing what is needed for our country, among MR, and his cohorts on those pathetic "debate teams." Our nation is in shambles, and MR just didn't have the pluck, nor experience politically, or internationally. Money isn't called the root of all evil for no reason. He does not want to be part of America, hence his "Ken appearance," but we must have a more inclusive leader, with experience in uniting, not dividing.

  • Posted By: Knudson @ 02/12/2008 10:49:28 PM

    Most people judge the Mormon Church without knowing anything at all about it except old wives tales handed down from the 1800's. Most negativism about Mormons comes from clergymen who earn their livings by preaching. Mormons threaten their income so they make up stories so that their flocks won't desert them so that they can preserve their income rather than worrying about if what they say is the truth.

  • Posted By: Dare270 @ 02/08/2008 11:32:28 AM

    Mitt Romney is absolutely the worst person to have ever been considered to be president. He would have run the middle class into poverty and destroyed our economy.

    • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 02/12/2008 8:30:11 PM

      Yep, our economy would have been in shambles. How could we possibly consider electing a strong businessman with financial genius into the highest office of our contry. Why, he may have been able to cut out the pork in government spending, may have made America profitable, so many things could have happened. This would have destroyed the economy we are accustomed to having - that of Big government spending and waste.... we sure couldn't have that.....because after all... he is a Mormon. - yes Dare270 I am poking fun at your stupidity

  • Posted By: Mighty Mouse @ 02/08/2008 12:17:06 PM

    We Americans, true Americans, can never accept Mormons into our society. They are outcasts; they must remain outcasts; they must acknowledge their positions.

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 02/11/2008 6:15:29 PM

      Mouse, since you are notably a very small person, I am American Indian. In my view everyone but my people are outcasts. Instead my people, at first, opened our homes to you, and what happened to us? We became outcasts in our own land, and third rate citizens. You sir (and I use that terms ever so lightly) are a bigot of epic proportions.

    • Posted By: nyborn @ 02/09/2008 7:39:23 AM

      bigotry at it's best. Since we don't know enough about them let's cast them out. Real Christian values that you have there.

    • Posted By: happy2be @ 02/08/2008 3:50:58 PM

      Sounds like you ate too much lead paint as a child. Who the hell do you think you are, saying who are "true Americans" and who are not, soley based on their religious beliefs. I have friends who are mormons and they are some of the most respectful, wholesome people I know

    • Posted By: hillplus @ 02/08/2008 2:13:28 PM

      My ancestors came to this country on the Mayflower. They came in part to be able to live their lives and worship their God as they wished. Now I am not a true American, but an outcast. Methinks you show your true colors,.mouse. You are not mighty in honor.

    • Posted By: AH1986 @ 02/08/2008 1:07:31 PM

      you going to try and sell me on the slave market too? Come on, whip me again, i dont care. It really doesnt matter what you say anyway, my faith will continue and if you so choose, you will live out the rest of your life in ignorance and hate. It's your choice man.

  • Posted By: Beaufort-SC @ 02/11/2008 4:08:40 PM

    We use labels. We make generalizations. Such as "Romney failed". Up until Florida, he had won the highest number of delegates, popular votes and states. When he suspended his campaign, he was still ahead of Huckabee, and had won 11 states to McCain's 13. However, w/ so many of the states under the winner-takes-it-all system, McCain had the edge. Had the Democrats followed the same system, Obama would have lost already. It's interesting to see that the Republican candidate can be chosen before more than half the country can vote.

    That is a psychological win. People could have done what they did when, ignoring the polls and the media anointment of Obama, they voted for Hillary instead. Nonetheless, people let California and Florida have the final say.

  • Posted By: TELLTHETRUTH @ 02/09/2008 2:02:47 PM

    REALI23 all religions are not the same. even if its a lie we have one man in history that said the things jesus said. no other "religious leader:" made the quotes he made and we read it was so. again even if its a lie why have not other religions carried on the same way? our muslim brothers and sisters have their foundation in the teaching of mohamed. but mohamed told muslims if they dont understand thje quran go find a person "of the Book" to help them. a "person of the Book" in islam means a person schooled in scriptures of the bible. one who knows fully the God of abraham isaac and jacob and understands the prophecies of the old testament concerning the coming of the Messiah (Jesujs Christ) mohamed also said while dying he had no clue where he was going in the after life. well....jesus gives assurance of the life after death scenario. and its not nebullous. most other "religions" basically teach u to find "god inside of u" which is a bunch of crock. lots of people think "being good" constitutes spirituality. being good is a residual effect of spirituality but being good doesnt make u spiritual. jesus didnt come to make bad people good. he came to make dead people live. u can be good as u want but that doesnt mean u are in right relationship with the One God. i dont know why mormons lie about them NOT being a secret society. they say they do "sacred" things. thats a cover. they have secret handshakes, secret names given to them as if their superior or hold some extraordinary knowledge, they go thru secret fertility rites, they have some kind of secret priestly garments like underwear or something. the bible tells us Jesus is iur high priest. he alone stands between man and God. isnt that enough? they are linked with mason temple rites in a great way. and they have the nerve to say they are not a secret society? pullllease! they have some sort of silly skit making mockery of christian ministers where they do like a comedy sketch and are sarcastic about ministers. and adults actually sit thru this crap and think its a sacred rite. yes its a secret society a friend of mine who is a building engineer witnessed such. he is no longer a mormon he also helped in the dome construction of the mormon temple in Md on I95

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 02/11/2008 1:16:58 PM

      Wow, now Telly, I have to state that previously, you were quite right about your doctrine, but here, you really go off the deep end... "Jesus didn't come to make bad people good, he came to make dead people live." What in Heaven's name are you talking about? His entire mission was to save people in their sins = make bad people good. Now, if you mean "spiritually" dead people to "spiritually" live, that's a whole different story. But if you mean that He only came to institute the resurrection, you are way out in left field on that one, bud..! When asked what are the greatest commanments, Jesus said (slightly paraphrased as I am working off memory), "Love the Lord thy God with all your might, mind and strength. The second is like unto it; love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments hang all the prophets." By obeying these two commandments, aperson can come closer to God; thus moving further from sin (bad to good, iniquity to righteousness, blemished to purified). This was the Savior's mission; to bring out God in you.

    • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/09/2008 8:05:20 PM

      This whole post is laughable. Where is my tinfoil hat, I will let you use it. Secret fertility rites? Puuuuhlease. Quit listening to your pastor who hates Mormons because he makes money off of his congregation and he loses money when Moromons convert his followers.

  • Posted By: TELLTHETRUTH @ 02/08/2008 6:38:09 PM

    AADI35 u need to learn better study techniques relative to the scriptures. i want u to go to Vines Expository on bible words and look up "perfect" so youll know what that word means in the original languages. english is not an ancient language so therefore the wirters of the scriptures intent many times is totally different than what limited english l;anguage is able to convey. run on now.........git!

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 02/11/2008 12:53:37 PM

      Another comment on a different subject that you initiated. Once again, you are assisting me helping to "disprove" many allegations about the Mormon religion. Many Christian denominations state that everything the the Lord has or will tell us is contained within the Bible. My question to you is, who's Bible? You state that I need to look up "perfect" in your book to show what that word means in the original, "ancient" language. But who is to say that ebven at that, when the Bible was translated into the King James Version (which is the one that is used by LDS) that the word the "scholars" of the day (uneducated monks) was the interpretation meant by the original writers? As you point out, the "intent many times is totally different that what... english... is able to convey." Again, you are helping to prove LDS doctrine. In our Articles of Faith, it states that "we believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly." You just stated that the Bible is not and has not been translated correctly - hence the need for scripture to clarify the original intent of God prophets who wrote the Bible, not man's interpretation.

      Telly - I greatly appreciate your help...

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 02/11/2008 12:37:17 PM

      Telly - sorry, I was only trying to help people decipher what you were trying to say. Please, look at what you wrote and then compare to my explanation - you will see that we do not differ in our opinions. Your point discusses what degree of perfection ("undeniable flawlessness" in your words = "perfect") we can attain in this life. I completely agree with you; as mortals, we cannot attain that which Christ attained in this mortal life. However, when we put corruption aside (death to the mrotal body) and put on incorruption (resurrection of the body and of the spirit into an immortal "perfected" body), through the grace of Christ, we may obtain His state of perfection ("hosios", as you put it, and specifically state "...humans will attain that when the mortal body puts on immortality and is glorified by none other that the Father..." = same thing that I am saying = Christian Doctrine). This is the definition of damnation. What does it mean to be damned? To no longer progress, to be stopped or hindered. Because of my actions (sins), if I am to be damned, what does that mean for me in the eternities..? I can no longer progress, and if so, what am I supposedly progressing towards? Look that up in you Vines Expository...

  • Posted By: bcdkimble @ 02/11/2008 2:10:47 AM

    I personally am not a Mormon. I am Apostolic. I could easily have supported Romney for president. I believe that he would make a good one. Even though I disagree with the Mormons on theology, you can't beat them on family values. They also have a commitment to their faith that few others can boast of. I don't believe that Romney is gone for good. He will be back. He stepped aside for the good of the Republican party. America needs a president that we can get behind & trust. We need a Huckabee or Romney. Mc Cain needs to be beat down in every caucus from now until the convention. He is a liberal in conservative clothing. Clinton or Obama will be a disaster for our country. How many will die in the next terrorist attack on our country, when the dems decide to talk to people that strap bombs on their children to kill infidels.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 02/11/2008 1:12:53 AM

    THE WAR OF EIGHTEEN TWELVE>

    AMERICA LOST TO THE CANADIANS AND THE BRITISH, IF NOT CANADA WOULD BE the FIFTY FIRST STATE.
    I LIKE AMERICA HOW IT IS CANADA JUST HAS TOO MUCH WASTE LAND

  • Posted By: Indigo @ 02/08/2008 9:57:17 AM

    Face facts, America is tired of republicans. They lost Congress, and now they're going to lose the presidency. With the dollar only a penny behind Canada, it's time for "regime change" here. And since this nation isn't a Theocracy a candidate's religion should never be part of their campaign. Just look how well Theocracy works in the middle east, and as yourselves: Is that what we really want here? Is it?

    • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/09/2008 8:42:56 PM

      I would say that rather than being sick of Republicans, Americans are sick of politicians in general. Have you seen the approval rating for out current Democratic congress? I will give you a hint--historically LOW.

  • Posted By: agalbrai @ 02/07/2008 8:15:08 PM

    I am disappointed by the ending of this article. The entire Republican party was asking Romney to step down and he did what Huckabee has refused to do the entire time - he stopped diving the parties votes. It was a very selfless and high-road classy thing to do. He just can't with with you media people. He can do nothing right. Bravo to Romney.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 02/08/2008 10:51:44 PM

    I noticed you criticized Benson for supporting the JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY. BUT you never criticized him. Benson doctrine is what the MAJORITY of Mormons live by. I would like to see you go to your church and criticize Benson. As mentioned I back my statements up with facts.

    There are many reasons Mormons will not come forth even though they know of the corruption in the Mormon church. One is due to their belief in Mormon scripture which they associate with the Mormon church. The leadership has usurped power and authority over this scripture. Thus, the members of the Mormon church think that God expects them to support their misguided leaders. This is much the - rationalization that many Americans make about our government. They all know of the corruption, but rationalize that it is unpatriotic to talk against the government or ungrateful to complain when they enjoy superficial prosperity.

    THE LINK BETWEEN BUSH FAMILY AND ROMNEY IS HENRY TAFT BENSON. CO FOUNDER OF THE RUSSEL TRUST aka. SKULLS N BONES SOCIETY.


    • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/09/2008 8:08:30 PM

      eddiewhere puts this crap up on every article that has even the remotest connection with Mormons. Ignore him, he is a crackpot with the requisite obsession.

    • Posted By: nyborn @ 02/09/2008 7:15:46 AM

      It's not Herny Taft Benson it's Ezra Taft Benson, does that clear up that the LDS Church isn't part of the Skull and Bones Society as you claim?

  • Posted By: durango88 @ 02/08/2008 9:59:47 AM

    The Evengelicals ARE the American Taliban. Intolerant of anyone who does not believe as they do and what to impose their values on everyone.

    Although McCain will still need to prostrate himself before them, the fact that McCain is the nominee, may be the first signs of their waning influence. This is a good thing.

    • Posted By: DDinnell @ 02/09/2008 8:01:31 PM

      I agree that it is our fault. I also agree that there needs to be some compassion. And the numbers reported by all 50 states is a range of approximately 12 million to as high as approximately 30 million illegal immigrants, even thouugh everyone prefers to use the low number. So how can we allow them to stay, without telling the world our laws are to be ignored, or that those who are working hard to legally come to the United States of America to become citizens, are doing it the hard way, and being put behind those who choose to come here illegally? Any bright ideas?

    • Posted By: joepublic @ 02/08/2008 10:42:08 AM

      And you say America is scared and bigoted against MORMONS? It's ok for Romney to be Mormon, and shouldn't be judged for it, but Huckabee is demonized and ridiculed for being an Evangelical Christian. The only group in America that it is ok to discriminate against are Christians, but we expect it. It means we are on the right track.

      • Posted By: durango88 @ 02/08/2008 12:01:33 PM

        Huckabee is demonized because he thinks it is OK to teach Creationism in the classroom and made it clear that his religious beliefs could possibly come before the interest of the country ("My Religion Defines Me"). I heard plenty of interviews in South Carolina where people said that they would not vote for Romney because he believes there is another book ("The book of Mormon") besides the Bible. I never heard someone say anything similar against Huckabee.

        I really never heard Huckabee demonized. He is a very likeable guy, but it is clear he is a candidate of /for the Evengelicals.

  • Posted By: DDinnell @ 02/09/2008 7:07:56 PM

    According to all 50 states, they each provide an estimate, both high and low, for illegal immigration. When you total all 50 states, the low is around the 12 million the media and everyone talks about. Yet the total high for all 50 states is estimated around 30 million illegal immigrants. Why do they use the low instead of the high?

  • Posted By: Jonovitch @ 02/09/2008 4:52:17 PM

    The last line ("As a candidate, Romney's greatest weakness was that he looked as if winning was the one thing he really believed in all along") rings true right up until the moment he suspended his campaign. With that one totally unselfish move, he sent the message loud and clear that "it was never about me." You couldn't miss it. This isn't the last we've heard from Romney.

  • Posted By: Mainstream Voice @ 02/08/2008 1:08:55 PM

    It is obvious from the ferver of the comments listed here that Mr. Romney's religion was an issue in people accepting him as a leader. I believe the LDS Church has no one to blame but themselves for this result. The condesending secret society that they maintain makes any thinking individual suspicious of their intensions.
    The " flip flop" concern about Romney is based in how the LDS Church positions itself tin determining doctrine by whatever is expedient to building that " secret society". I am not a right wing reactionary but a concerned Americian who who never vote for someone with such a hidden adgenda.

    • Posted By: nyborn @ 02/09/2008 7:34:42 AM

      Wow, a secrety society? I didn't realize that I was part of one, Hmmmm. WHat does this society do? If you are talking about work done in the temple, it's not secret just sacred. How does a secret society spread than? I mean we do have 13 million members and have been around less than 200 years.

  • Posted By: real123 @ 02/09/2008 7:27:32 AM

    I moved from Texas to Salt Lake City and I have friends of all faiths. Each of them have their own wacky beliefs, but if it makes them feel secure and happy in a dangerous world then let them. Most people follow a religion in order to accentuate the goodness of mankind through God. The problem is when other religions look at other religions and think, "you're not like me, so therefore you are bad". Stop labelling! We are all the same.

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