Romney and Religion

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  • Posted By: Zigzig @ 02/07/2008 11:02:19 PM

    danite1, I was taught by great parents that when I failed at something I was to blame no one but myself. Looks like you, Mitt, and most of his other supporters never learned that lesson. Mitt lost because of his own ineptitude.

    The first step to growing as a person is to admit you failed yourself, there is no one else to blame.

    • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/08/2008 12:59:02 AM

      Unless you can show me where Mitt Romney has blamed someone else for his decision to suspend his campaign, I am going to call you on the carpet for making a biased assumption, in a rather condescending way, I might add. Perhaps you are insinuating like you claimed tmswain45 did, that you "have a monopoly" on family values or at least on "great parents" who taught you personal responsibility.

      I would be very surprised if Governor Romney, being the detail-oriented person that he is, does not analyze the cause of his failure and understand the role of his own personal weaknesses in it. As one of his supporters, I recognize he has weaknesses and that he made mistakes that hurt his campaign.

      However, your parents did you a disservice if they taught you that you are entirely to blame for any failure you experience. You know as well as I do that failure in anything does not have a single cause. Ultimately there are a lot of factors that resulted in Governor Romney's failure to secure the Republican nomination. Some had to do with his personal failings and weaknesses, some had to do with biases in the media and in the mind of the electorate, some had to do with advise from his campaign advisors, and some had to do with the nature of the primary/caucus system and the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents.

      I agree with you that it is important to take personal responsibility, and I assume Governor Romney will do so with regard to this election, and come back more prepared in 2012.

  • Posted By: Zigzig @ 02/07/2008 10:16:17 PM

    tmswain45's comment give insight to the pious Mormon mind. "They have stronger family values than most"

    I'm sorry to let you know tmswain45, you are terribly wrong. A statement like that is truly laughable. Mormons have no better family values than the rest of us, they don't have a monopoly on family unity and happiness. They are taught that, and they blindly suck it all in.

    • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/08/2008 12:38:17 AM

      tmswain45 did not say that Mormons have "better family values than the rest of us," or "a monopoly on family unity and happiness." Those are your misinterpretations of his words. He said that "they have stronger family values than most."

      Maybe Mormons don't have stronger family values than the statistical majority in this country (hopefully strong family values are still held by the majority), but tmswain45's sentiment is not too far off if the statistics that Governor Romney cited in his speech today are true: "68% of African American children are born out-of-wedlock, 45% of Hispanic children, and 25% of White children" From those statistics, it appears to me that family values are under attack in our country.

      Members in good standing of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints live according to the following principles and doctrines as they relate to the family:

      "The family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

      Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives???mothers and fathers???will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

      The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities."

      Text excerpts taken from "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" (full text can be found at http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html)

      I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for over 30 years now, and I have never heard anyone teach that we have "better family values" or "a monopoly on family unity and happiness." In fact, it is the hope of all "Mormons" that everyone, regardless of their religion or philosophy will value familiy relationships in word and deed. The family is the core unit of civilized society. Without strong families society becomes increasingly uncivilized and dangerous for all of us.

  • Posted By: doorman @ 02/08/2008 12:32:09 AM

    The Mormon religion and it's beliefs are no more strange than that of Scientology. Wait a second, Scientology has really strange beliefs, how can anyone with cognitive insight really believe the things that Scientology teaches? Exactly! That is the same question that many people couldn't help ask themselves deep down about Mitt Romney. Who know's, maybe some day the Scientologists will put forward a Harvard educated successful businessman as a Presidential candidate....

  • Posted By: Dspeaking @ 02/08/2008 12:17:53 AM

    Today we lost the best chance America had to get back on track.
    Mitt Romney is a great man with the high moral character, positive vision,
    knowledge and skills this country desperately needed.
    I wish him and his family the best, though they already have it.

  • Posted By: Dspeaking @ 02/08/2008 12:14:14 AM

    Today we lost one of the best chances America had to get back on track.
    Mitt Romney is a great man, with high moral values, a positive vision for our future,
    and the skills and knowledge needed to restore confidence in our government leaders.
    I wish him and his family the best, though they already have the best.

  • Posted By: Zigzig @ 02/07/2008 10:05:06 PM

    This article is right on the money. Mitt is as inauthentic as any candidate I have ever experienced. I think a small part was his religion; mostly though American can sniff out a fake, pandering persona.

    I???ve had a couple experiences with Mormons. If found most to fit the Mitt mold: inauthentic.

    • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/08/2008 12:02:29 AM

      Which is it Zig Zig? Was it Mitt's religion or his inauthenticity at fault? I guess you are saying that membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the cause of "inauthenticity?" What does that mean? Does that mean "too good to be true?" Does that mean "there's no way those people could truly be that happy without alcohol, pre-marital sex, and having to spend all that time in church on Sunday?" Just because you don't relate to someone doesn't mean they are inauthentic.

  • Posted By: Carma @ 02/07/2008 11:24:55 PM

    I respected Romney. I think his change on abortion did not mean he was just trying to win. I believed you can have strong inner values about issues and think it is not your right to expect others to share your own beliefs. To come to a realization that what you once thought could be the wrong choice, doesn't seem so weird to me. I have changed in my life. I think his actions in his life showed his true character.

  • Posted By: danite1 @ 02/07/2008 10:24:34 PM

    Zigzig, thanks for proving my point: it's the willingness of people like you to draw on the stereotypes they've been taught that caused the narrative of Mitt's inauthenticity.

  • Posted By: peverett321 @ 02/07/2008 9:51:35 PM

    I find It very hard to believe that someone can "put on a family oriented face" contribute to society and have a spotless background for their entire life, yet have a secret attempt to "win the world to Satanism." Look at what your saying -- be reasonable. Having a brilliant, hard working man of integrity in the White House would have been a great contribution to our country. I lived in Arizona for ten years and in no way was I impressed with Sen. McCains contribution to Arizona. Illegal immigration was (is) rampant. No one does anything about it. He was the Senator and not one thing was done. What makes anyone think something would be done as the leader of our country.

  • Posted By: danite1 @ 02/07/2008 8:51:54 PM

    One of the ways that religious, racial, and sexual bigotry work is by creating and employing stereotypes. The stereotypes attached to blacks and women are well known and, for that reason, somewhat disarmed. Among most people, the stereotype of Mormons is squeaky-clean, to the point of being comic. But among evangelicals, there is a readily accessible body of literature that characterizes the Mormon church as a cult, a sinister, diabolical, and secret society that puts on a kindly, Christian, family-oriented face, but is secretly attempting to win the world to Satanism. And Mormon individuals are either dupes of their church or co-conspirators, men whose core is completely at odds with their facades.

    Guess which stereotype scuttled Mitt Romney's campaign.

  • Posted By: danite1 @ 02/07/2008 8:48:36 PM

    One of the ways that religious, racial, and sexual bigotry work is by creating stereotypes. The stereotypes attached to blacks and women are well-known and, for that reason, somewhat disarmed. Among most people, the stereotype of Mormons is squeaky-clean, to the point of being comic. But among evangelicals, there is a readily accessible body of literature that characterizes the Mormon church as a cult, a sinister, diabolical, and secret society that puts on a kindly, Christian, family-oriented face, but is secretly attempting to win the world to Satanism. And Mormon individuals are either dupes of their church or co-conspirators, men whose core is completely at odds with their facades.
    Guess which stereotype scuttled Mitt Romney';s campaign.

  • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/07/2008 8:24:07 PM

    I don't believe that winning was all that Governor Romney believed in. If that was all he believed in, he would still be in the race, and he would have run a much more underhanded campaign to date. Romney is not Machiavellian like most politicians. Just because McCain and Huckabee attacked Romney for "negative" campaigning doesn't mean that Romney's contrast ads were wrong, or even inaccurate unlike the blatantly false ads that McCain unleashed on the eve of the Florida primary and again before "Super Tuesday." But somehow, everyone believed the hype that Romney was the only negative campaigner.

    With the end of Governor Romney's campaign, it is a sad day for conservatives in this country, but not as sad as election day will be, when we look at the ballot and realize that there is not even a candidate on the ballot who doesn't already have a residence with a Washington, D.C. zip code, and that there is little chance of any positive change in that town in the next four years.

  • Posted By: PMcAllister @ 02/07/2008 8:21:25 PM

    I challenge anyone to step into the spotlight, and open themselves, their ideas, their past history, their family and friends, their career, their finances, their religious beliefs and everyone and everything associated with them to extreme public scrutiny 24 hours a day, seven days a week for over a year. If you take that challenge, see if you can seem authentic to everyone, all the time.

    The career politicians have learned how to take on a persona and keep up appearances. Unfortunately for Romney's candidacy, he is not a career politician. Unfortunately for our country, we can't embrace a candidate who is not a career politician. That fact is incomprehensible to me. The word politician connotes dishonesty, disingenousness, selfishness, and powerlust. Yet we allow the media and other politicians to convince us that the one candidate who was not a true politician, who has a squeeky-clean past, who has lived a moral and ethical life, who has a history of success in what ails our country most right now (economy and universal health care) was not worthy of the office of President. Why? Because he didn't fit in with the political fraternity, or because his religion is not accepted as mainstream, or because he had too much money, or because he has changed his position on less than a handful of issues in the past 15 years of his life, or because some voters didn't always feel like he was their best friend, or because some voters felt like he was trying too hard to be their best friend. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    It seems like there is constantly an outcry from a portion of the electorate for a "common man" candidate. Someone who relates to the electorate personally. Someone who knows what it is like to be poor. Someone who isn't tainted by special interests and Washington politics. Yet we also want someone who appears presidential, who has skills and a track-record of success, and who has the financial stability to take two or more years of their life away from work to travel around the country and promote their candidacy independent of special interest financing. We want someone who is ethical and has good judgment, who doesn't have scandalous skeletons in the closet. We want someone who sounds down-to-earth and folksy when he is talking to the down-home crowd, but brilliant and polished when he is talking to the elite crowd. Yet we want consistency. Do we realize that the attributes we desire are frequently contradictory, and there is no one who fits all of the requirements we impose on a presidential candidate? Governor Romney was as good a man and potentially as good a president as we could have hoped for, but somehow his candidacy was mortally wounded by imperfections that are common to you and me.

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