Turn Out the Red Light?

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  • Posted By: peanutbutter8 @ 02/10/2008 8:04:04 PM

    Help fight the transnational slavery of women and girls. We should all work to end these crimes against humanity. Prostitution is never a choice people make. Human beings are coerced into this either socially, economically, or by violent means. It is systemic and systematic rape, in other words, and should be looked at with the same indignation as slavery of the 19th century or genocide in the 20th. Involve yourself in your community. Be wary of 'massage parlours' in your city. Write to your representative and local officials. Join the Facebook cause against human trafficking: http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/1103
    And please visit the website for Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International.

  • Posted By: peanutbutter8 @ 02/10/2008 8:03:39 PM

    Help fight the transnational slavery of women and girls. We should all work to end these crimes against humanity. Prostitution is never a choice people make. Human beings are coerced into this either socially, economically, or by violent means. It is systemic and systematic rape, in other words, and should be looked at with the same indignation as slavery of the 19th century or genocide in the 20th. Involve yourself in your community. Be wary of 'massage parlours' in your city. Write to your representative and local officials. Join the Facebook cause against human trafficking: http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/1103
    And please visit the website for Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International.

  • Posted By: sarahjaneASU @ 02/10/2008 12:05:41 PM

    Well they are the happiest people over there, and as this happens maybe we can do a little sociological study on it that will probably reveal legalization of such things as drugs and the sex industry allows the government to actually control it. And I know what your thinking, duh!!! This is going to make things worst there, not bad, but worst. And yes, please keep the mushrooms!!!

  • Posted By: HUMAN74 @ 02/10/2008 11:27:45 AM

    Finally. I'm glad. We humans are NOT for SALE anymore.

  • Posted By: coolguy87 @ 02/10/2008 10:59:03 AM

    Call me a square for not endorsing the sex industry and "sex work" for that matter.. But PLEASE keep the hallucinogenic mushrooms until I can get over there!!

  • Posted By: coolguy87 @ 02/10/2008 10:57:39 AM

    Call me a square for not endorsing the sex industry and "sex work" for that matter.. But PLEASE keep the hallucinogenic mushrooms until I can get over there!!

  • Posted By: rab015 @ 02/10/2008 5:53:53 AM

    To all those here who hope they keep the red light district and think it's a good thing....maybe one day your daughter can work there....wouldn't you be proud?

  • Posted By: SDOT @ 02/09/2008 11:05:38 AM

    As a 26 year old american, I have never been to Amsterdam. Amsterdam and ''the red light district'' is somthing that I have always wanted to visit and I believe that it would be a great shame to change a part of worlds greatest attractions along with its history. I say save the red light district!

    • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/10/2008 1:41:02 AM

      You want to visit the RDL because you are a self-absorbed idiot who couldn't care less the the woman you paid to have sex with was doing it voluntarily. As long as the fact that she was coerced into the position was not forced into your conscious thinking, you wouldn't care, and would prefer not to know. Even that is probably giving you too much credit.

  • Posted By: ihawa @ 02/09/2008 5:52:32 AM


    I believe every city should have a Red Light District or building, where sex workers can do what they need to do. This arrangement ensures health, safety and better controls in a profession that has been around for as long as the human race has existed. Today's most dangerous and unethical prostitutes are not those that sell their bodies in a Red Light District, but those that sell their values, principles and dignity who work in our government and private enterprises, encouraging wars, abusing our planet and remain oblivious to all the human needs of the world. How do we erradicate those?

    • Posted By: rebltg @ 02/10/2008 1:21:38 AM

      You talk about giving sex workers a safe place to work. That is a great idea, but how do women, and young children become "sex workers" in the first place? They are either forced into it, or had their sense of self and self worth so brutalized that they see prostitution as their only viable option for survival. Yes, there are examples of women who work as prostitutes voluntarily, bet they are merely the exceptions that prove the rule. Another problem is that permissiveness of profit from sexual exploitation in the form of prostitution of adult women leads to an environment where further exploitation is encouraged. Amsterdam is infamous for their child-porn industry.

    • Posted By: buddyboy @ 02/09/2008 6:06:01 AM

      You've given the only intelligent response to any and all the comments submitted on the subject of prostitution in Europe, or anywher else in this world.

      • Posted By: venturer1200 @ 02/09/2008 8:28:08 AM

        Excellent comment. We should be more concerned with the prostitution of our country: it's resources and it's people. Our government would appear to be the pimps. Yet we are more concerned about Amsterdam's RLD. Amazing.

  • Posted By: BeUrBestNow @ 02/10/2008 12:50:36 AM

    I am so glad to hear that they are trying to turn that city around. The breakdown of the family in this country has taken a masive toll. I'm surprised that there are still 67% of the people of the people left who are not addicted to the sex and porn lifestlye to make this change. Bravo for the those who are fighting!!!

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 02/10/2008 12:18:01 AM

    Prostitution is a degrading profession. Nobody likes to be called a 'prostitute'. Do you? It is immoral and should be eradicated. What happens when a son gets the sexual services of his prostitute mother, paid for it and then tells the father and other siblings about it?

  • Posted By: tbeaau2u @ 02/09/2008 8:47:25 PM

    If I were a native Amsterdamian, I would be asking who is profiting from the sale of these buildings and the closing of the RLD? Chances are there is a select group of businesspeople who want some select, canal-side property to put up yet one more boutique or specialty store or bar. The one thing that makes Amsterdam truly unique is the RLD. Every other major city has plenty of restaurant/bars and boutiques which cycle in and out of business with great regularity. The RLD has been there for a very long time and anyone who has problems with the type of business that goes on in that district should simply avoid it. This smacks of religious conservatism once again dictating to everyone how they should live their lives and conduct their business. Follow the euro and see where it leads!!

  • Posted By: aloysius @ 02/09/2008 1:42:57 PM

    What does it say about us as humans, when we state that we would only want to go to Amsterdam if it has a Red Light District? I haven't been to Amsterdam but if I do go as I'm planning to do this summer, I think the pity I would feel for the poor women who work in these shops would by far outweigh the curiosity factor. We treat animals in shelters and zoos better than these women and I think there's something really sick about 'checking them out' even if you don't plan to patronize them. Obviously, since most men don't go around bragging about their visits to prostitutes, there's some embarrassment factor associated with it. I'd feel just as embarassed if I went to gawk at these women simply because they're human beings being put on display similar to the way slaves were. Even if there are women who are there by choice, I think most people would agree there???s little dignity in turning tricks and even less in being part of a window display to show off your wares. Why would I want to contribute to that humiliation? No, I don't live in Amsterdam but I can imagine that if I did, I would want my city to be known for something other than prostitution and drugs. I also don't live in a country where there's a genocide occurring but I don't think that means I shouldn't speak out when another country facilitates or ignores one that???s happening within its borders. And I don't think that we can look at the sex industry in Amsterdam as an issue that is only relevant to the people of Amsterdam. Many (or perhaps I will be somewhat presumptuous and say that most) of the women who are working in the city's sex industry are not from Amsterdam. I think the way prostitution is dealt with should be a global issue because it is, at least in part, a Human Rights issue. Amsterdam is not a city in a Third World country. If they haven't been able to get their act together enough to control prostitution the way many people think it can be controlled in theory--without sex trafficking, with regulated sex shops and prostitutes who are tested for communicable diseases and offered a reasonable level of protection--how can we realistically expect that other countries and cities that lack the financial and governmental resources Amsterdam has will be able to do the same? I certainly wouldn???t trust the local government here in Italy to regulate prostitution???they can???t even get people to pay their taxes and get the trash picked up. Just as it's unrealistic to think that prostitution will ever go away, I think it's also unrealistic to think that prostitution can always exist in a sanitized regulated vacuum. Amsterdam is a prime example of that reality.

    • Posted By: tbeaau2u @ 02/09/2008 8:29:31 PM

      You said it all. You haven't been there, you haven't seen it. All you have done is read about it in some one-sided, conservative point-of-view rag which is like watching the evening news here in the U.S. and saying you know what the average Italian or Franco individual thinks about the U.S.'s involvement in Iraq. No way!! Saints preserve us from ignorant, well-meaning interlopers.

  • Posted By: Sparrowhawk65 @ 02/09/2008 1:38:12 PM

    The fact that prostitution exists and perhaps always will is undeniable, as long as there are customers who most likely are someone else's soul mate. I wonder how many of those ladies standing in the windows started when they were 12, 13 or even younger, providing pleasure for the perverted pedophiles and despots in the back rooms out of sight until they became of age. I wonder how many of them might well have been kid sisters of those who think it's so cool to "get a piece of tail" in the Red Light District. Have any of you thought that many of these ladies were stolen, sold or promised a better life, only to find they became psychological prisoners at a very early age? Simply put, it makes you a pedophile as well--but only a delayed one. I wonder how many of those who frequented the place ever thought of how his wife or fiance would feel discovering that he bathed in a tub frequented by hundreds of others, of varying degrees of cleanliness, or lack thereof, or perhaps even many more than that, and then bringing the exposure of the communal tub to her bed. I suspect they would vomit their hearts out knowing their "soul mate" had so little soul. If you need a "piece of tail" so badly, why don't you all make it more interesting for your wife or lover? Chances are, most of you are of the "wham bam, thank you ma'am" ilk. Not to mention, of course, that the vast majority of you can neither spell nor type with any degree of proficiency, nor do you think for a moment that what you do is a violation of trust, so long as the rutting instinct is satisfied with anyone or everyone. It is a pathetic commentary about those who think that the existence of prurience on a large scale is the only thing which makes a country worth visiting.

    • Posted By: tbeaau2u @ 02/09/2008 8:21:08 PM

      I am always amazed at how you people always characterize someone who uses a prostitute's services as being deviant or a despot. Sex is a natural act of normal human beings. When someone avails themselves of prostitute's services, they may be satisfying a need which they can't have fulfilled at home with their straight-laced, bible-thumping, frigid, asexual partners. What is the greater sin - marrying and then resorting to sexual restriction and politics to manipulate one's partner, or that partner satisfying those needs with a willing partner, albeit one compensated with the coin of the realm. Who is the greater despot? As long as the exchange is consensual, and the nature of the business has been around for thousands of years, who are you to apply your mores to anothers life? As far as being a pedophile, that is a matter of case-by-case incidence and should not be generalized to apply to everyone. As far as wondering about my sisters - I have found that I cannot be responsible for their decisions and have found that they are quite capable of getting themselves into and out of questionable situations all by themselves and I have long since stopped being responsible for their choices - a point that probably should apply to many of those 'victims' of prostitution. Show me one that was kidnapped, chained and forcibly raped for profit and I will be the first in line with the castration knife for the guilty party but barring that, the rest is a matter of choice. Those 13 and 14 year old girls are as mature as many 20- 25-year olds of yesteryear. While I may not agree with them being 'working girls' at that age, I think it will be hard to keep them from taking advantage of their 'natural' ability to make money in that field. Good luck trying to regulate human nature. Not too many years ago, it was common to see ' good Christian girls' married at the age of 14 or 15, but then, that sexual arrangement was sanctioned by the church, wasn't it?

    • Posted By: kamakiriad @ 02/09/2008 3:27:57 PM

      Whole lot of generalizing on there Sparrowhawk. You are assuming anyone opposed to closing the red light actually frequents prostitutes. Some folks (including me) have seen it from the law enforcement side, and as bad as it may seem legalized, deinstitutionalize it and see how bad it gets. The red light in Amsterdam is actually a model of how it should be. These brothels and the women working in them are regulated, tested, and there are rules. When illegal and hidden, those dirty tubs you are talking about get dirtier. The chance a man is going to take something home gets worse. It's naive to believe this will stop just because someone preaches to "spice up your life" with your partner. Men who do this will do it even in a completely happy marriage. It's not about their partner, it's about ariation and stepping out of their normal social role. The best course is the Amsterdam red light. Closing it will just make things worse.

  • Posted By: lilymax @ 02/09/2008 2:06:55 PM

    I don't think that you can write that way about the Red Light District or the women who work there without having lived there and met these women yourself. It's a very close-minded, American-ized view of yours to assume that these women are "like slaves" who are treated worse than animals in zoos. I have done a lot work with the women in the Red Light District in Amsterdam and for many of them this is their profession and they are everywhere from indifferent to proud of what they do. Obviously there are still flaws in the system, and there are women who are there against their will and this is truly awful and needs to be addressed immediately (which is directly related to the work I was doing there) but putting hundreds of other women out of their jobs and closing down one of the most historically-rich districts in Amsterdam is not the answer. Prostitution exists everywhere, and that's not going to change. The way that Amsterdam has dealt with it is the safest and most productive method for both the government and the wealth of the city (as a tourist attraction) and the women themselves. They have security, they get the amount of money they request , they have rooms where they can be safe, they can easily and safely receive STD testing (but all also requre the use of condoms) they can turn down anyone they don't want, and they don't have pimps so they can freely come and go as they please from the profession. Clearly, this is not always the case and there are many cases of corruption and terrible situations; however, give me one woman in Calcutta who has even a chance at any of these benefits. Or even in America, with street prostitution, where women are at the mercy of their pimps and the cops. Go to Amsterdam, visit the PIC (Prostitute Information Center) and then talk about the lack of dignity in this profession, and how poorly Amsterdam has control over the sex industry.

    • Posted By: TheRealGW @ 02/09/2008 2:28:32 PM

      Way to go Lily! I agree entirely. Prostitution is a part of humanity and Amsterdam, from what I've read, takes the most intellectual and humanitarian approach to the reality of it.

      • Posted By: tbeaau2u @ 02/09/2008 7:49:09 PM

        T-RUE!!! I tire of conservative religious-based attitudes determining the direction of the rest of the world. Left to them, they would do away with such ideas as: free choice, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion - to worship or not. I have visited the RLD and seen very few incidents of illegal activity. I saw police stations on every other street with officers within easy hailing distance. I felt safe walking the streets as a tourist and never felt taken advantage of until I went into one of those tourista bar/restaurants and paid an unbelievable price for a watered-down drink. I could overlook that as I was in awe of the culture which I felt respected the individual's freedom to choose a mode of livelyhood condemned by much of the wrapped-too-tight, western, church-dictated cultures. One of our former presidents was quoted as saying that whenever conservative religious leaders hold sway, segregation, discrimination, and the incedence of lethal violence increases. Looking at history, I have to note that any time fanatical trends infiltrate the government structure, the toll in human death spirals out of control. While wew are not talking about firing squads, burning at the stake, gas chambers or guillotines, we are talking about a conservative core governmental group snuffing out a particular part of western European culture. I say go after the traffidkers and leave the ladies alone to earn a living.

  • Posted By: gpan @ 02/09/2008 6:16:45 PM

    It does sound like a crocked up accusation. If crime were so rampant there, there would have already been a strong backlash against the district from both locals and tourists. And the survey showing 65% dissatisfaction was carried out by a city-designated polling service? Yeah, then I really have trust in the results. Plus it is transparently hypocritical for the city to "license pimps" while shutting down the district. So the city wants in on the business, eh? It will profit from licensing pimps!? And the roaming pimps will somehow be more accountable than the in-situ brothels? Well, I guess they could stay in one place, set up shop.... oh, but wait--that would be the same as the current district! Anyway, even without all the hypocrisy, one reason to keep the district is simply good, old-fashioned diversity. The world dies a little bit every time we turn it into a monoculture. Uniqueness is what makes the world worth living in.

  • Posted By: tiggernov @ 02/09/2008 6:05:02 PM

    Well, it's very obvious to me that either u folks have either a) not been to Amsterdam in a VERY long time, b) lying through ur teeth & NEVER been to Amsterdam, c) have lead EXTREMELY sheltered lives & r not very well educated on anything other than what's going on in ur own back yard, literally. Or d) think ur a femminist & truley have NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS.
    My brother &his wife (who don't so much as drink let alone do drugs) have lived in Amsterdam for many years. I have visited there SEVERAL times.& for the most part, Amsterdam is a very inviting , wonderful place to visit/ live. & just like ANY OTHER PLACE through out the globe there are "nice areas" and "not so nice areas" to visit / live. Everyone who goes / lives there, knows pretty much where they are. U go where u'd like depending upon what U'D like to see, That being said:

    It's been illegal to do "hard drugs" such as any introvenious drugs, heroin, etc any where in the Netherlands for MANY years! U are not allowed to posses them or sell them. Pot Hashish etc may only be bought or sold in a cafe & used there or in a private home.,NOT on the street. Although MANY PEOPLE DO smoke on the street.
    MANY countries have a RDL & Amsterdams scores one of the highest in containment of the area, cleanness of the premis & girls, washing facilities r in each cubicle, girls must be licenced w/ the government &checked for stds regularly which makes human trafficing a little more difficult & crime rate is lower than most rld
    The women who CHOOSE to work in the RLD r often VERY attractive, some r young ,of age,working their way thru school making EXTREMELY high pay.(More $ in 1 session than a weeks pay) They DO have the right to decide who IF & in what way they will provide service. Many of them r their own boss, renting the booths themselves. yes, there is something for everyone, as the story goes, " I'm home sick NOT HORNY" Point? Most women working the district r there because they want to be, running their own buisnesses, working on their own terms , making there own decisions in a less sexually frigged country than the U.S.exploiting the fact that men can't "keep it in their pants" That's not feminism ..?
    The RDL was established a VERY long time ago, Its contained within itself. Anyone purchasing property in that area to raise kids?- IDIOT!
    The men that visit the Red Light r a very diverse group of buisness travellers, tourists, locals? many are the husbands of women who live there & r happy their husband occasions the RDL & "leaves (them) alone" .They HAVE A DIFFERENT CULTURE! THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME IDEAS ABOUT SEX AS AMERICANS DO.GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE PEOPLE!!!!! I did get some passing glances in the rdl like d in the states, no pawing no hunting me down, or brushing up against me!, ITS WORSE HERE! they had no need to. They were too buisy "window sho

  • Posted By: ScubaGolfJim @ 02/09/2008 5:17:10 PM

    Well I for one will no longer stay in Amsterdam when travelling abroad. My trips to India has a layover in Amsterdam and I would often stay an extra day or two in the city. I would walk through the Red-Light District in wonderment at the freedom that city allowed its citizens. Even though I politely refused any offers of drugs and did not take the opportunity to "visit" with any of the girls it was great fun and entertainment to be there. I tired of the museums and galleries after two visits, but the Red-Light District kept me coming back. And it was not apparent that anyone avoided Amsterdam with their kids, just that well marked and identified section if they desired. I never saw Police having to make any arrests or investigate any crimes. Were there some? Yes, but apparently nothing severe enough to involve the authorities. I just said "no" and that was it for me.

  • Posted By: ScubaGolfJim @ 02/09/2008 5:09:24 PM

    Well I for one will no longer plan a stay in Amsterdam when traveling abroad. My flights to India go through Amsterdam and I usually stay a few days to relax and watch with wonderment the freedom within that city. I would stroll through the Red-Light District several times during my trips and stay in a hotel bordering on the district. I always politely refused any offers of drugs and was not bothered again by that person. I did not partake partake of the offersing

  • Posted By: bionic75007 @ 02/09/2008 4:28:30 PM

    I have visited Amsterdam and while I oppose the closing of the red light district, I must say it's the people of Amsterdam's city, and they're right: there was more crime there than in other areas of the city. That said, it was easy to avoid the guys peddling small amounts of hard drugs and be safe. The harm done by criminalizing phenomenon that should be viewed as a social health issue is far greater when behaviors are pushed underground.

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