Turn Out the Red Light?

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  • Posted By: spunkeee1 @ 02/09/2008 12:08:37 PM

    For all of you Americans who have posted on this subject, I am ashamed of you. I'm as American as it gets and I do try to stay up to date with the news of the world but this is sad. Those of you who have such strong opinions about another country and the way they choose to do things are simply insane. If you don't like the RLD why not move there and as a CITIZEN there try to abolish it. Try minding your own business. It is funny how some can preach that they want people to be treated just. How would you feel if someone from 4000 miles away were prying into your business? We are touted as the worlds babysitter and we are meant to stick up for those who can't stick up for themselves. Unfortunately someone has forgotten to call the sitter for us. We as a country suck. It is so easy for us to point fingers at everyone else in the world. Let me ask you a question and do not rush to an answer....think about it. Did you give any money to the last homeless person you saw down on the street corner? Did you go hand out dinners on Thanksgiving day? Did you donate any time to the nearest church even if you are not a member? Why don't we fix our own problems before rushing out to save the world?

    • Posted By: dsburke45 @ 02/09/2008 1:01:01 PM

      I do as a matter a fact serve people food on Thanksgiving, i have volunteered at churches I am not a member of and i just gave money to a man i saw picking out of the garbage. I read, write and speak Dutch, lived in Amsterdam 4 years and one of my children was born there. Yes it was very exciting when the 2 crackheads tried to jump me on the way to the embassy to get his passport. So exactly what is your point? Dutch people speak freely as well as all the rest of the world on big old bad America and all there social problems. America still has freedom of speech. Yet you gave your opinion, does that make you pathetic?
      Great program we have here, if you don't like Americans exercising their right to have dialogue about issues that affect the whole world, feel free to live somewherelse.

      • Posted By: spunkeee1 @ 02/09/2008 1:15:11 PM

        That simply enforces my argument...if the Dutch do not like the red light district...move. If Americans do not like the rld do not visit. The point is...stop wasting time bitching and either do something about it or drop it. Time is way to precious to spread around on things we can not or will not change. Focus on something a little closer to home that may actuallly make a difference to those around you i.e. your family. I applaud you for giving your time and resources to others..it makes a difference.

  • Posted By: doroteo_arango @ 02/09/2008 1:11:48 PM

    This is a real estate scam. That mayor could care less about the sex workers. Without the protection of the government there lives are going to be in danger. Look at the USA where prostitution is illegal, missing out on tax dollars and making some pimp rich (tax free). Holland really should reconsider. Tolerance will always be the best policy. As for taking your mom or wife or daughter or sister into the red light district thats just plain silly. I have never visited Amsterdam, but I am pretty sure there is an alternate route to walk. Focus efforts on real issues and stop trying to buy up real estate to flip for your own gain. People open your eyes and stop letting the government blind you with bullsh** issues. There are real problems out there in this world. Who cares if the oldest profession has its own neighborhood. I bet the hiv rate among those workers is zero.

  • Posted By: Moral Brough Man @ 02/09/2008 1:09:45 PM

    Maybe other cities will follow the example of Amsterdam wanting to rid the immorality it relects to the world they no longer desire. Anyone, Christian or not with morals and standards has looked at Amsterdam as a place of a people as a whole to have an approved area as the RL Dist is a step back. As society grows so should our morals of clean living, not to regress. We should have the inteligence what is right and wrong and show as human beings we grow. All whether they want to admit it or not know what is right or wrong. the deepest tribe in Africa knows not to kill, steal, or commit adultry and never hear anything of any religion. They are born with it for God has instilled it in everyone. As for the responses that there is no God, I have never heard anyone dying, suddenly dying, a child hurt or dying, or anything major happen in their life God doesn't get mentioned in a bad or right way. this is a good sign mankind from the deepest of modern sin has now began to see that sin in the long run is not a lasting or innner personal satisfaction. Good for the people of Amsterdam!

  • Posted By: darkevolution @ 02/09/2008 1:08:15 PM

    Well, it looks like the disease of American neo conservatism has spread overseas. It's sad, really, considering the fact that Europe (and specifically the Netherlands) was the last bastion of true freedom.
    Now, with this new "Moral Majority" taking hold over there, i see no reason to ever visit the land of my ancestors again, as i might as well just stay in the "good ol' u.s. of a" and have the same results.
    ;;

    And for the puritanical

  • Posted By: dabronx51 @ 02/09/2008 1:06:02 PM

    It is a part of life . Be more concerned about genocide, poverty

  • Posted By: peter.hayden @ 02/08/2008 4:38:46 PM

    Good for the Netherlanders! Don't blame the politicians, it's the will of the people. How can you justify immoral behaviour? Because it provides jobs, brings in revenue? People who use common sense and good judgement know that this kind of thing attracts the most morally corrupt and criminal elements. Is a little human trafficing worth boasting about you ultra liberal lifestyle? The right thing to do is always the most difficult road.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/08/2008 5:23:48 PM

      If "morals" were universal and absolute, your point of view would make sense. Given that what you believe is "immoral" is something I (and many others) believe to be normal, natural and unavoidable, there's really no point in trying to legislate "morality." I'd hazard a guess that many things you think are "moral" are morally repugnant to many others, as well. How about you live your life as you see fit, and allow others the same freedom?

      • Posted By: lobo74 @ 02/09/2008 9:17:50 AM

        Morals (without the quotation marks) are absolute.
        That's how things like open prostitution/drug abuse/human trafficking get to be considered "normal". People start justifying there own behaviour by making up their own "morals" and accusing others of having a narrow view of "morals". Anyone who disagrees with them is not allowing others to have "freedom". It evidently never crosses their minds that some people would like the "freedom" to be able to live and work in a society that does not have a public display of human degradation simply for the purpose of revenue (money-greed?- that is unavoidable, right?) or because it is "normal, natural and
        unavoidable". I'd hazard a guess that you don't know what true "freedom" is.

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/09/2008 1:00:59 PM

          Your morals are absolute - that has no effect on anyone else's. Just because you get your morals by buying into a prepackaged belief system (assuming this is the case), your point of view is no more valid than those of people who, much to your disgust, make up their own minds. People HAVE the freedom to live and work wherever they want; I never said otherwise. I am interested in your definition of "true freedom," since it obviously has nothing to do with - well - being free. Good luck trying to legislate away the human sex drive.

  • Posted By: slik66 @ 02/09/2008 12:59:46 PM

    As an American service man in 1960, I had the unique experience of my life when I visited the RLD. I had never seen anything like it and have never forgotten it
    Tulips-smulips. The Rld has ALWAYS BEEN the main attraction of that city. I personally can't imagine Amsterdam without it.The so called do-gooders will still get their jollies behind some closed door. Leave it alone. It endured for a long, long time.......wonder why???

  • Posted By: Spoonr27 @ 02/09/2008 12:56:59 PM

    Please don't close the Red Light District! This place has been around since the 15th Century.....Its part of world history. We as American bragg about our freedoms and how we are free to express ourselfs, but I feel Amsterdam and its Red Light District truely shows real expression. Can you imagine a Red Light District in Chicago? How about in the heart of Manhattan? Maybe downtown Los Angeles? People here would calapse and have heart attacks from the very thought!

  • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/08/2008 5:12:07 PM

    I'm with those who say this is a bad move. Like anything else that WILL take place, by far the safest avenue is to regulate it, so that it takes place safely. Don't hide behind excuses like "human trafficking." If human trafficking is the problem, fight human trafficking, not prostitution. Human trafficking will only get worse if prostitution is driven underground - if it's legal, it's subject to regulation. These issues (and I include our vaunted War On Drug[user]s) only punish the population in the name of saving it. The world clearly learned nothing from Prohibition.

    • Posted By: liberty0527000000777555222 @ 02/09/2008 9:28:15 AM

      Prostitution is the major reason human trafficking exists!!!!!!!! If there was no prostitution business there would be no or little human trafficking. I???m not sure that this mentality of driving them underground will actually make it worse; right now they???re just hiding behind the legality of the laws, and their loopholes that allow prostitution. I???m a beginning law student, interested mainly in representing girls/women who have been forced into the sex business. In the case of the red light district, or in any situation where prostitution is legal, pimps force girls to work???however they won???t admit that to the public, out of fear. Instead they???ll contend that they choose their own work, and no one forced them, they lie out of fear. But this is why human trafficking is largely under-estimated. I truly believe there is only a minute amount of prostitutes who really are all willing to work in this business. Most prostitutes experiences some sort of violent rape in their lifetime, hardly an event that makes you want to go back to work! (And yes even prostitutes can be raped). Human trafficking also tends to increase when war times strike ???under-developed countries???, which is going on now. There is sooo much more to this, but the main point of my argument is that you can???t fight human trafficking without fighting prostitution.

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/09/2008 12:56:57 PM

        My point is that you can "fight" prostitution all you want, but you'll never win. You have to accept it as reality in order to give any control to the prostitutes themselves. You say you're not sure driving it underground will make it worse, but you don't back up your opinion. Over the next three years, you'll be taught that you need evidence to support a position - merely feeling strongly about it will not work. Show me evidence that driving prostitution underground benefits anyone but criminals, and we can talk. Until then, your positions are mere conclusory allegations and cannot create a genuine issue of material fact.

  • Posted By: bry444 @ 02/08/2008 6:52:30 PM

    The comment regarding the cleansing of Times Square and the return of tourism is dead on! You have no idea how many tourists would love to visit Amsterdam and the its bucolic country but have chronically avoided it due to its permissiveness laws and stained reputation of illegitimate debauchery. As always, perception is reality!

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/09/2008 12:52:34 PM

      What could conceivably be the logic in avoiding the windmills and tulips because of one neighborhood in a metropolitan area? I've never been there, but it's my understanding that the quaint countryside is not IN the RLD. I call BS.

  • Posted By: Tom T. @ 02/09/2008 12:49:58 PM

    If the moral majority (i.e. the megalopolies that run us) would pay as much attention to cleaning up the poisons they daily pour into the atmosphere and down our throats under the guise of food, for an enormous profit, as they do to the "social crimes" they drag across our paths as a red herring to deflect us from their real agenda, maybe we truly could clean up this world. But unless there's a buck in it, no one is gonna do anything that really matters. Waiting for the end, hope it comes soon!

  • Posted By: luomadawn @ 02/09/2008 12:48:24 PM

    Having been to Amsterdam in 2005 and visiting the RLD in daylight hours I felt a very dark, oppressive and heartbreaking weight set in. Couldn't get out of there fast enough... Children on their way to and from school were also walking those same streets and I couldn't imagine my kids seeing what is offered up and that being normal. Congratulations to the City for their desire to promote an image based on something other than sex and immorality. Amsterdam is beautiful and has a rich history that tourists will still want to take in - families will feel safer travelling to the City - good move!

  • Posted By: Traveling Texan @ 02/09/2008 9:04:23 AM

    Is America not a Christian country anymore? I haven't read one post that mentions that prostitution is a crime against Christ. Read First Corrinthians Chapter six and you will see what Christ thinks about prostitues and the men that use them. Get rid of it, because Amsterdam better find Christ in a hurry to stem the flow of Muslims and their influence into that country.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/09/2008 12:42:47 PM

      America never was a Christian country. We're a secular nation with freedom of (meaning freedom from) religion. It's your opinion that prostitution is a crime against Christ. You're welcome to your opinion, but you are not free to inflict it on anyone else. It's attitudes like yours that have resulted in America being hated by so much of the rest of the world. Amsterdam is full of grownups - how about you let them make their OWN decisions?

    • Posted By: elschka @ 02/09/2008 9:32:03 AM

      Prostitution is everywhere in Texas, but people keep their eyes closed, pretending it does not exist. At least in Holland they deal with it by paying taxes, regular health check ups etc.

  • Posted By: drupus2 @ 02/09/2008 12:21:24 PM

    OK World...lets all take a step back. Or more like it, step into the world of the Moral Majority. Just like in America, the false morality forced upon us by the ultra right wing (not unlike the Taliban) is undermining the rights of everyday citizens, while their clergy, religious leaders, catholic priests and right wing (moral?) politicians sneak around in airport bathroom stalls. Wake up world, and smell the Fascism. And don't forget to get a good taste of the hypocrasy while youre at it.

  • Posted By: BLerr @ 02/09/2008 11:48:40 AM

    I went to Amsterdam in December, and I remember being really excited to see the famous Red Light District. When we found it, we walked down the little streets and alleys as quickly as we could, averting our eyes. It was the saddest thing I've ever seen, that those women were standing being those windows wearing pretty much nothing, looking miserable, waiting to be bought. It was like a slave auction. It was disgusting and sad. I wish that I had not been so eager to go gape at the misfortunes of others like they were pets in a pet store at the mall. Too bad if tourism doesn't remain quite as high as before. At least Amsterdam still has legal pot.

    I do agree that if they are getting rid of the district that there needs to be some help for these women. The government needs to organize some sort of program so that they can train and get spots for waitress jobs or something if they want. I don't know. It's just sad.

  • Posted By: Vetteboy98 @ 02/09/2008 11:48:01 AM

    Everyone is missing the point. The REAL point is to stop the CRIMINALITY, not the activities. Let the RLD remain, but let it be governed by the government who can harvest revenue from it, control crime, drugs, STD's and human trafficking (slavery by any other name). If every country had an RLD in its major cities, Amsterdam wouldn't be so famous and people wouldn't have to travel there solely for that purpose. It's like Amsterdam (and Thailand) have become the world's RLD, And if all these bible-thumping missionary types would simply shut up and let people be free to live the life they choose as long as it's impact on others is minimal at best, my guess is that more than half of the conflict that exists in the world would simply disappear.

  • Posted By: BLerr @ 02/09/2008 11:46:36 AM

    I went to Amsterdam in December, and I remember being really excited to see the famous Red Light District. When we found it, we walked down the little streets and alleys as quickly as we could, averting our eyes. It was the saddest thing I've ever seen, that those women were standing being those windows wearing pretty much nothing, looking miserable, waiting to be bought. It was like a slave auction. It was disgusting and sad. I wish that I had not been so eager to go gape at the misfortunes of others like they were pets in a pet store at the mall. Too bad if tourism doesn't remain quite as high as before. At least Amsterdam still has legal pot.

    I do agree that if they are getting rid of the district that there needs to be some help for these women. The government needs to organize some sort of program so that they can train and get spots for waitress jobs or something if they want. I don't know. It's just sad.

  • Posted By: microbat @ 02/09/2008 11:45:17 AM

    "...generally ugly and sad looking..."
    Humanitarian perspective usually tends to be a bit more respectful of women, especially ones in such poor situations. Insulting their physical appearance, which is completely off the topic, is rather shallow. The humanitarian view generally doesn't compare them to animals either.
    Personally, I can see them shutting down the prostitution shops for safety reasons; STI's and the like. I'd be wary of letting the government mess with stores that simply sell erotic items, however. And while it may seem reasonable to allow them to deal with these districts, I'd make sure that their power only extends to these situations. Eminent domain has gotten badly misused in my city, and Amsterdam might want to be on the lookout.
    By the way, you've left your caps key on.

  • Posted By: greenfroggietoad @ 02/09/2008 11:43:06 AM

    I do not necessarily agree with prostitution or drugs and I do respect women but that is not the issue. The issue is will it really make it safer. Maybe cleaning up the area as far as the dirt bags and undesirables will help, not clearing out the area. It is a tourist attraction no matter how you look at it. Curiosity attracts decent people also. Forgot about the comment of the cat. Even if it's just to see what it's all about. It is one of those experiences you will never forget and you don't have to participate. As far as the business man that is so successful there. He has an existing attraction that brings people to him. More respectable businesses would profit from this also, but right now the attraction is the RLD. Make the area more presentable for the curious. Clear out the ones that proposition tourists. Heck, wear a sign around your neck that says not for sale if it concerns you so much. If you can't laugh about it. If you don't want to put yourself or anyone else in that position, don't go. I do not believe closing the RLD is the solution and I don't know what would be. It could end up being more of a concern. If you don't have a better idea, your not helping to resolve the problem.

  • Posted By: usap @ 02/09/2008 11:25:10 AM

    Comment: SWEET, when guys visit the RLD, it's for entertainment, NOT for a mission to seek social justice. Nobody is on your wavelength of "What if it was your sister or your mother?" or "What about the oppression?". That's none of our business. The RLD is promoted as an attraction, so people will go check it out. If it is dirty and smelly and the babes are withered dogs, then people won't return.

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