@lesbishop: I find it insulting for you to harass and discriminate members of a religious minority for exercising their right of freedom of religion and conscience. That's just arrogant and blind. Face it, there are more people and viewpoints than just your own.
The Passion of ‘Anonymous’
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Posted By: freedomforall @ 02/09/2008 12:35:25 PM
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/11/2008 2:37:26 AM
So if you honestly feel that way, explain why the Church of Scientology (CoS) attacks the freezone, protestant Scientologists who practice the religion outside of the CoS? You are completely insincere. You try to keep all the materials of Scientology to yourselves, so you can dole it out to your parishioners for ridiculous prices. Well, guess what? ALL of the materials of Scientology are available in the freezone in electronic files, for anyone to have for NO CHARGE! They can study and apply those materials and it won't cost them a dime. Now that's real freedom of religion! You could have Scientology and keep your money. For a Scientologist, the deal couldn't be any better than that.
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/09/2008 9:45:33 AM
Readers here may wish to note that the term "Scientologist" does not refer only to those who belong to the Church of Scientology (CoS for short). Since the early 1980's many, many, many people who consider themselves Scientologists have left the CoS. There are in fact today, more Scientologists outside of the CoS than there are in it. Those Scientologists outside the CoS usually refer to themselves as "freezoners" and the aggregate of those no-CoS Scientologists is called the freezone (sometime capitalised as Freezone). This exodus from the CoS parallels the departure of protestant Christians from the Roman Catholic Church. So just as not all Christians are not Catholics, so not all Scientologists are CoS members. Freezoners usually escape the notice of others when Scientology is being discussed because they are people who quietly practice the philosophy. We consist of hundreds of totally independent groups of Scientologists spread all over the planet. Most of us would agree that the CoS has become a vicious cult, interested only in exploiting the membership for their money in order to line the pockets of the elite of the COS. This is in fact often the reason why we left the CoS. we are in fact "protestant" Scientologists. The CoS hates us and has labelled most of us as "suppressive persons". We are of the opinion that the CoS has corrupted the philosophy and no longer apply it as it was developed by L. Ron Hubbard. Many of us have been persecuted by the CoS. The truth is that the CoS is not "the fastest growing religion on earth" as they claim. They are actually shrking in numbers as they become more and more of a cult, interested only in separating the membership from their money. Their buildings are mostly empty of parishioners. As their true nature becomes more well known, they have fewer and fewer new members and more and more older members leave. The CoS will eventually die by its own hand. Scientology as a philosophy will survive but only in the freezone.
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Posted By: ceocomp @ 02/09/2008 9:59:16 AM
Nice generalities Dr. - "the C of Hates us". I am a Scientologist and have no clue who you are. Am I one of the guys who hates you??
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/09/2008 4:39:56 PM
Why don't you tell me Mr. Ceocomp whether or not you hate me? If I was to invite you to sit down and have a rational discussion about my right to practice Scientology as a freezoner, would you do so? Or would you refuse to talk to me because you have been told by the CoS that because I am a freezoner, I am therefore a "suppressive person" and not to be communicated with? Begin to think for yourself my friend.
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/11/2008 2:23:57 AM
I see that Mr. Ceocomp has not responded to my question. Note that since I am critical of the Church of Scientology that he would be forbidden to even say "hello" to me if he passed me on the street, let alone sit down and have a discussion with me. Ceocomp, wake up and realize that you are not one of "the last free people on Earth", you are a SLAVE! Declare your freedom by leaving the Church of Scientology. If you wish, you can still study and apply the subject of Scientology in the freezone.
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Posted By: Terryeo @ 02/09/2008 10:47:00 AM
As a parishioner of the Church, it has become clear to me that someone fairly high in the Church decided the Church was his enemy. He had access to Church-owned videos and tucked a number of them into his duffel, preparatory to his egress. Thus, the public sees his pirated, "leaked videos" appearing one by one. The ages of the leaked videos define the time frame when he separated himself from access to them. While establishing an identity outside of the Church, he begin relationships with the people who, he was sure, would bring the most hurt, who would maximize his personal vendetta for him. I would say this, it is not wise to tread on Freedom of Religion. You have your opinion and I have mine. But an attempt to destroy another???s opinion is neither just, nor moral.
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/11/2008 2:19:51 AM
So you are saying that showing the general public the Church of Scientology's own videos is damaging to the Church? The words and images in your OWN videos damage your organization? I would say that this tells everyone exactly what the Church of Scientology is all about! If anyone wants to truly understand the philosophy of Scientology, they can study it in the freezone for little or no cost. We are interested in people actually learning about Scientology, not exploiting the subject to cheat people out of their money.
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Posted By: A.Jones @ 02/09/2008 5:35:32 PM
I recently joined the Church of Scientology. After reading Dianetics, I was fascinated by Hubbard's new way of thinking. Now, my life seems to be entirely dedicated to the Church. When I'm not working, I'm taking (admittedly expensive) courses to work myself up the bridge. Recently I heard about Anonymous' effort to expose the facts about my Church. And they sure do have me thinking! I've come to realize that my teachers are subtly trying to convince me that my family (who wants me to leave) are no longer important to me, and are in fact "dangerous" supressive persons. At the same time they want me to borrow money from my family, under false pretenses. They also suggested that if I do leave the Church, my body will basically die, and I will reincarnate as a rapist or serial-killer. Now I am in a dangerous situation. If the Church is right, I have no other option than to devote the rest of my life and finances to the Orgs. If they are wrong, I have wasted all that time and thousands upon thousands of my hard-earned dollars. I'm scared. I just want to make it out alive.
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Posted By: DrZook @ 02/11/2008 2:13:09 AM
The Church of Scientology no longer has a monopoly on the subject of Scientology. All of the materials of Scientology are available outside the Church in the freezone, FOR FREE! Any auditing action that you wnat is available in the freezone, either by co-auditing or from professionally trained auditors who charge no more for their services than a plumber or most certainly (at most) a third of what a cheap lawyer charges. The entire Scientology Bridge is available for less of an investment than four months of the cost of attending college for a year in the freezone. You lose nothing by leaving the CoS.
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Posted By: jdark13 @ 02/11/2008 1:55:04 AM
If you want to learn about Scientology, see Ted Koppel interview the current and longstanding leader of it:
Scientology leader, David Miscavige interviewed on Emmy Award-winning Nightline show, 1992.
Parts 1 - 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWUasKX3FZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2D6kbHbW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfppmUxbzBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6BBItttq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiR7CPbhFOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4Dp8czxjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEFl2yBsj54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TldGZSd0Ih4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuDR3dxdfQ
Knowledge is Power
Ask Questions
Find Answers
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Posted By: hypno @ 02/08/2008 11:02:37 PM
I'm an Atheist and I'm appalled by the attacks on Scientology. Why doesn''t the anonymous group attack the big and powerful religions? We have the freedom to worship or not worship in this country. We don't have the freedom to attack worshipers you don't agree with.
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Posted By: Huffenpuff @ 02/08/2008 11:55:35 PM
Why attack any group of people for their beliefs, unless they are led to wrap dynamite round their children and send them out into the market place to explode ...
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Posted By: teh-lmnop @ 02/09/2008 1:19:06 AM
Huffenpuff, you are sidestepping the issue at hand, which is the Church of Scientology and its abuses of the legal system and its own followers. While I agree that suicide bombers etc are a terrible thing, their existence does not make any less real the suffering of those whose families have been separated by Sceintology's disconnect doctrine. Forced labor in the Rehabilitation Project Force, infiltration of the IRS...it sounds like bad fiction, but sadly, it's true.
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Posted By: Peggo @ 02/09/2008 2:07:14 AM
Good grief. Thirty years ago the staff responsible for this were disciplined and purged from the church. Most of us weren't even BORN then. But hey -- 200 years ago the Spanish Inquisition was still drowning people to prove they were witches. So let's all put on masks and picket the Catholic churches.
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Posted By: cakespeare @ 02/11/2008 1:44:07 AM
the Spanish Inquisition was about 500 yrs ago.
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Posted By: Jess22 @ 02/09/2008 1:03:23 AM
Anon aren't protesting people's beliefs, they are protesting the actions of Scientology's organisation. It's a fundemental right for people to hold any beliefs they want. But the Church of Scientology itself needs reform.
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Posted By: Peggo @ 02/09/2008 2:04:39 AM
That just is not true. They are attacking Scientologists. Face it. Don't water it down using their propaganda.
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Posted By: teh-lmnop @ 02/09/2008 12:18:23 AM
Anonymous is focusing on Scientology because of their abuse of the law, their mistreatment of their followers, and the way they squelch any critic with legal and personal harassment. If you want to protest some other group, have at it. And to be absolutely clear, Anonymous' problem is not with the worshipers. It's with the corporate style religion that manipulates and bankrupts those worshipers.
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Posted By: Anonymous too @ 02/10/2008 11:02:24 PM
No blasphemy can mar my name
so blaspheme if you will
so pure it is that Name
that no speakingness can soil it.
Appoint amongst you some small few
to tell lies and invent wicked things
and spread out infamy abroad and within
and to stand before our altars and insult and lie
and tell evil rumors about us all.
For all is Life to Buddha.
All is Life.
No blasphemy now can mar the name of Buddha, Lord.
Each revilement is a prayer
for just the mention of the name
then cleanses all.
Mention the Name
and do not worry if you think some stray
condemning thought or doubt.
Mention the Name
its holiness is such it can withstand
all bludgeoning
consult with prayer
be calm and you will know.
You could know of yourselves
all that of which I speak
and so don't argue or dispute when some come up to you
and say another thing
for if they knew all truly
they would then say what I say
and what Lord Buddha said.
Be attentive now.
You have preserved only a bit
of what Lord Buddha said.
He said much more
but then there came men who said other things
and changed a piece of this, a bit of that,
and so we strayed.
Censor not free speech and censor not free thought
but recall in all these twenty-five centuries
none came and spoke the Great Lessons again
nor added to them then to make you free.
I speak then so you can agree.
So speak and think whatever you will
but come again to these Lessons
if you stray and become lost
and slaves as you have been.
With these and your agreement to
we now can build the Eastern and the Western worlds
into one great brotherhood of Man.
Excerpt from Hymn of Asia
an Eastern Poem
by L. Ron Hubbard.
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Posted By: lstnspc @ 02/10/2008 10:24:28 PM
30 years ago, I joined Scientology just to improve my sense of self-worth...which is the cornerstone of their initial teachings and why so many young people buy into it. After about a month, they were ready to move me out of my apartment, had found me a new job with a Scientologist-owned company, had told me that I couldn't continue any non-Scientology friendships AND that I had to have only limited communication with my family...because none of them truly "understood" me. I saw this for what it was and stopped attending the meetings and stopped paying for the "lessons." Members of the society had taken items from my home when they had been there to "visit" and I never did get those items back. They kept trying to pull be back into their lives for the next year. I was 20 years old and just celebrated my 50th. They haven't changed. They prey on the young and weak. They do teach people how to be the center of attention and I can certainly understand why people in the entertainment industry want to belong to an organization that tells them how WONDERFUL they are. Too bad the words of a science fiction writer have been taken so seriously for so long. That being said, I'm a huge Asimov fan! l! He also wrote dirty limericks!
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Posted By: ceocomp @ 02/10/2008 2:54:12 AM
Hey JDark Who don???t YOU do some real reasearch, open YOUR eyes and realize you are being used by a highly destructive drug pushing cartel. Example - Newseek's founder Phil Graham - suicide under Psychatric care - reportedly an LSD addict. Henry Luce founder of Time magazine died an LSD addict. LSD was the killer drug predecessor
to the newer killer drugs like Prozac and Ritalin. The big pharmaceutical companies manage and control media stories and hire tools like Brian Braiker to write articles that attack anyone who challenges their right to maim and kill with their drug profiteering. That is why Scientology is attacked and one of the reasons why it is growing so rapidly. Scientologists have the integrity to DO something about the murderous PsychoPharm drug pushers and this is being well received by a population fed up with a predatory Psychiatric Pharmaceutical industry.-
Posted By: ballsmcgee @ 02/10/2008 9:39:25 PM
LSD is non addictive and isn't chemically related to Prozac or Ritalin at all, what the hell are you going on about?
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Posted By: ballsmcgee @ 02/10/2008 9:38:18 PM
LSD is non addictive and isn't chemically related to Prozac or Ritalin at all, what the hell are you going on about?
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Posted By: ceocomp @ 02/10/2008 6:32:08 AM
Wow - where DO you get your data - news articles? Conversations with Scientology drop outs? Have you read Dianetics? Fundamentals of Thought? Problems of Work? Are you trained in using an e-meter? No equipment will work in untrained hands. And with your apparent bias against learning the subject you so vehemently attack, it is highly unlikely that you CAN learn. The first barrier to learning anything that needs to be overcome is admitting you have something to learn. If you want to know what it is that you are attacking, study the actual data for yourself with your own free will. Believing the Psycho-pharma propaganda so evident on this message board just may have blocked your perception? As I said, Scientology flourishes when attacked by the drug profiteers of psycho-pharm. So, in the end, you may just be helping after all. Have a nice day. It's beautiful and sunny here in South Africa. But it is hard to beat the USA! Try to lighten up and enjoy the blessings you have in such a great and free country.
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Posted By: usaftwilight @ 02/10/2008 11:25:07 AM
"Posted By: ceocomp @ 02/10/2008 06:32:08
Are you trained in using an e-meter? No equipment will work in untrained hands."
A 1971 ruling of the United States District Court, District of Columbia (333 F. Supp. 357), specifically stated, "The E-meter has no proven usefulness in the diagnosis, treatment or prevention of any disease, nor is it medically or scientifically capable of improving any bodily function."
You can "train" however much you want to with this useless machine. No matter how tightly you close your eyes and wish, the e-meter has never been scientifically proven to have any medical utility whatsoever.-
Posted By: Annie Omnes @ 02/10/2008 11:55:00 AM
I read Dianetics -- both versions. I forgot to squirrel the first one away, but I guess Miscavige handled that
in the second one, eh? As for the e-meter, well, one of my friends in college and I took one apart. It's an Ohm meter with a lot of blinky things and more buttons on the front than it actually uses to function. So, yeah, I guess only high-school physics teachers and licensed electricians have a valid use for it. Basically, the tech boils down to moral intimidation, a shiny new Ohm meter, and good old-fashioned hypnosis-based talk therapy. That and its grace note: The suicide diet.
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Posted By: jdark13 @ 02/10/2008 3:01:41 AM
Golly, I guess I don't buy into either!
Pharmacuticals OR Scientology Brain-Washing
Your e-Meter is nothing more than a simplistic polygraph that measures electric impulses on the skin's surface. Its purpose is to delve into your mind so you can help the Church fill your permanent record with possibly incriminating evidense should you ever speak out, or decide to leave.
Maybe people don't have to choose one OR the other. They have the options of being perfectly happy with neither. It's not an all or nothing situation.
The option I choose, and the one I encourage to you is that of maintaining my freewill.
Brainwashing is Brainwashing be it Drugs, Labotomy, or Hypnosis disguised as Self- Help by your friends at the Church of Scientology. How much, y'think, it takes to obtain that super power 'uber-man' ability that you've been promised? Know anyone that actually has it? Seen Tom Cruise flying or moving things with his mind yet? You may just be getting fleeced y'know.
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Posted By: Mwaddums @ 02/10/2008 9:23:56 PM
Spoiler alert, Newsweek. Anonymous is not an organization of any kind. They're the bored white twentysomethings on the internet, usually still living in their parents' basements. They are doing this scientology stuff in between adding funny captions to pictures of cats and browsing Japanese anime porn.
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Posted By: hopmat2010 @ 02/10/2008 1:56:23 PM
www.scientologymyths.info
That site doesn't seem to bipartisan either
from the looks of things, that site simply promotes scientology and makes many, many assumptions about the religion-
Posted By: JeraldR @ 02/10/2008 2:10:55 PM
Its a site run and funded by scientology. But hey, go check it out anyhow. Then check out xenu.net and xenutv.com so you have both sides of the issue. It's not that hard to see the scientology site is all lies and smoke and mirrors.
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Posted By: Nessunome @ 02/10/2008 2:05:15 PM
Anonymous routinely laughs at the media labelling of them as hackers. Seriously, the ability to use computers remotely competently is not the same as hacking, and while some of the group can generate software tools they tend to be very simple ad-hoc utilities. The only times Anonymous uses hackers self-referentially is as a derisive reference to a pathetically alarmist Fox11 report which branded them as 'hackers on steroids' (leading to jokes such as http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s261/Timesplitter14/Steroids_hackers.jpg)
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Posted By: hopmat2010 @ 02/10/2008 1:59:56 PM
I know someone personally who joined the Church when he was younger, and when he tried to leave, they tracked him down for 3 years and continued to try and make him pay money to the Church up until he joined the military
Scientology may have started as an idea for spiritual freedom, but it is definately being used as an means of economic gain
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Posted By: Survivor-mi50 @ 02/10/2008 1:55:23 PM
Why anyone would pay credence to Tom Cruise only weakens that group's potential. It's propaganda being permitted by the IRS to be tax-exempt proves the folly - aka Tom Cruise . All very sad for someone who needs to step back, and get himself in a healthy stance in life to continue his responsiblities to his family. Enough of this errant, narcissistic actor. If Scientology must use him, it's proof enough of their total lack of ethical standards of conduct becoming a spiritual organization. No more religions, please!
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Posted By: speedskiff @ 02/10/2008 7:54:04 AM
My weak-minded sister and her chiropractor hubby have fallen for this fantasy-jive. Weak-minded they be, but it's a shame and criminal for them to subject their innocent young daughter to this. The chiro hates all things medical, yet pushes his quackery on others and has the gall to call himself a doctor. So, weak-minded folks fall for his jive and he falls for CoS jive. I feel sorry for innocents who're subjected to this. My sister's older sons immedidately rejected this kook fringe delusional belief system, fortunately.
Keep up the good work, anonymous.-
Posted By: Sacrum @ 02/10/2008 1:52:51 PM
I am a chiropractor and am adamantly against scientology, having played with it long ago. I resent a reference to chiropractic being quackery. I know there is quackery being used by some idiot chiropractors, but we are not all nuts....on the other hand, all scientologists are nuts!
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Posted By: Sacrum @ 02/10/2008 1:47:53 PM
Was it P.T. Barnum who said:" there is a sucker born every minute"? I guess there are just a lot of very naive people who will believe anything!
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Posted By: Sacrum @ 02/10/2008 1:46:03 PM
It is not a religion.....it only acts like one.
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Posted By: JeraldR @ 02/10/2008 1:43:59 PM
Well all I can say at this point is the passion of Anonymous is huge. In Detroit alone there were over sixty protesters. This was in minus 20 weather with the wind chill. And the protests are going on right now all over the world. Take some time and drive down to one. Let scientology know they don't own the net and they don't own our world.
Here are the pic's for the Detroit protest.....
http://tinyurl.com/yqj4ur http://groups.msn.com/FarmingtonHillsDetoitMiScientologyProtest/_whatsnew.msnw
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Posted By: LuisaB @ 02/10/2008 1:29:52 PM
usaftwilight, nonsense, check out scientologymyths.info for the real thing. send email if you miss something.
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Posted By: usaftwilight @ 02/10/2008 12:57:50 PM
What other religion refuses to impart the path of salvation to its practitioners until a monetary sum is paid or a contractual obligation is met? The full teachings of Christ, Allah, Buddah, Mormon, etc.. are all freely distributed.
Another point, what religion has "trade secrets"? Trade secrets are not the purview of a "not-for-profit" religion, but a tool of a "for profit" business. If CoS wants to maintain their tax-exempt status, it is very hypocritical for them to claim a method of protection offered to business entities.
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