‘It Sits on Your Conscience’

What is the problem?
In Kenya, you have 42 ethnic groups. One needs to be very careful to let the people feel that the cloth of government is stretched to cover everybody, that nobody is left out or discriminated against in terms of economic well-being and resources, access to money and power. [Here] you have a constitutional structure that doesn't distribute power evenly. You have a very powerful presidency in an environment like this, where each group watches for what the other group is getting and what they are not getting.

You ' ve advocated the use of the Kenyan military. But there are ethnic divisions within the military.
I know. But what is the use of an army when it is not used to protect innocent civilians in harm's way? Obviously moving goods to markets to provide supplies and services is important, but what's the point if the people are dead?

What can the international community really do in this case?
It's important that the international community speaks with one voice. There are differences, but there is a convergence [of opinion]. They realize divisions between them will be exploited.

How has your thinking on this evolved?
Take Darfur—everybody knew the African Union didn't have capacity or the resources that were required, but they all went for the AU [peacekeeping mission], knowing the shortcomings, to be able to say we've done something. It is hypocritical. It's dishonest. And it's deceitful for those who are in the situation. In fact it may be better not to promise help that you know will not come.

You ' ve said it ' s difficult to understand African dictators today because they ' ve lost the ability to talk. Is that applicable here?
After independence, we got into a situation where men who hungered for power went into politics, and we created a situation of winner takes all. In many countries, people who want to make money go into business. In Africa, people who want to make money go into politics. It is very unhealthy. It's very profitable.

What about Kenya ' s leaders?
[Laughs] I think I've said enough.

Are you rooting for Barack Obama?
I have no horse in that race.

Given your experience with the Clinton administration and Rwanda, would you be worried about another Clinton administration?
I think Clinton of today is a different man than Clinton that didn't want to go to Rwanda. I suspect he's also learned. Of course, it's not Bill that is running. It's Hillary. And we don't know the team she will surround herself with. I'm confident that the reaction to a Rwanda-type situation would be quite different.

© 2008