Abe’s Day

It's about time everyone takes another look at Abraham Lincoln and all the other anti-communists like Ronald Reagan and Joseph R. McCarthy. After all it was a Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald and a communist Sirhan Sirhan who knocked off the Kennedy Brothers. Now check out this awesome book I just read at Amazon.com!

The Epoch Point by Spencer Zimmerman is a religious historical conspiracy thriller that follows evil throughout the existence of mankind, revealing the constant conflict between God and the devil, good and evil. Robert Davis is a young Airman fresh out of Air Force basic training who, after being held captive in China, suddenly finds himself unraveling the most immense conspiracy in history. On duty during the 9/11 terrorist attacks, he soon uncovers hidden facts suggesting Russian and Iraqi involvement. While exploring abandoned military barracks at Kessler AFB in Mississippi, Davis and his friends discover the diary of Lee Harvey Oswald. Suddenly the Airmen find themselves the target of mysterious agents. As the clues surface, an evil emerges powerful enough to rewrite the entire history of humanity, not to mention kill two of his good friends. Before long the conspiracy takes on a supernatural form, marked by lightning, tornadoes, hurricanes, and volcanoes, the wrath of God. Davis finds himself torn by the unbelievable realization that God has a message for him. Nothing could prepare him for the final suspenseful twist the story takes, a Da Vinci style revelation that reaffirms his belief in Christ.

here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Epoch-Point-Spencer-Zimmerman/dp/1934248932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210731193&sr=1-1

You cite a host of inaccurate statements here and this is not unfortunately a forum to address them all; suffice it to say that many of them are at best exaggerated or lacking in context, For example, Vallandigham was not deported for opposing Lincoln's income tax proposal.

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When did I say Lincoln went to war over slavery? He went to war to preserve the Union. The south, however, seceded in order to protect slavery. Eventually, ending slavery became a war aim of the north.

My knowledge of history is based upon the facts and I hold a degree in that very subject.

You cite a host of inaccurate statements here and this is not unfortunately a forum to address them all; suffice it to say that many of them are at best exaggerated or lacking in context, For example, Vallandigham was not deported for opposing Lincoln's income tax proposal.

As I said before, Lincoln was human and had his failings; he was faced with an unprecedented situation and did his best under what could at a minimum be called trying circumstances. I don't worship him as a hero. But as much as you say that people have to have a mythical Lincoln, I would daresay there is an equal group that need a Lincoln as a mythical demon upon which they can blame all the faults of today. The truth, as is often the case, is much more complex and usually somewhere in between the two extremes.

And with that, I will just say that we will have to agree to disagree with each other, tip our hats to one another and be on our respective ways. :-)

Jimmywilliams, Ft Sumter was property actually owned by the US government (deeded free and clear by the South Carolina legislature several decades earlier) just as you own your home. The troops within had made no threat, fired no shots, and had dozens of artillery pieces trained upon them if they so much as sneezed wrong. There was no threat to the city of Charleston, as the fort was no well situated to fire on it since it was designed to defend, not attack, the city. The garrison was little more than a self-sustaining prison camp. As a matter of fact, the Confederates did far more to close of Charleston Harbor than Sumter did - they sank hulks in the mouth of the harbor to restrict entry, and actually fired upon an earlier supply vessel (the Star of the West, sent by President Buchanan), and also on a civilian merchant vessel that strayed too close to the harbor.

Again with the "Lincoln forced the south to fire the first shots". Actually, the south had already fired shots on two ships. It amazes me that people think that Lincoln had such a degree of mind control on the south as to make them dance to his tune so eagerly. As for stories written by the victor, plenty of history was written by southerners, including Jeff Davis, and plenty of pre-war and wartime correspondence exists that tells us what people on both sides were doing and thinking. Reading the declarations of causes issued by the various seceding states is very instructive as to their thinking at the time, for example.

As for having a right to secession, there is no right of unilateral secession, as that is precluded by the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution. A state cannot secede simply by its own unilateral say-so.

It's always interesting to learn new things about Lincoln, and other notable past figures of our history.

"Any people , anywhere , being so inclined and having the power , have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government , and form a new one that suits them better . This is a most valuable and sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world . Nor is the right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government mat choose to exercize it . Any portion of such people , that can may revolutionize and make their own of so many of the territiry as they inhabit ."
Abraham Lincoln
January 12 , 1848
Good Ole Honest Abe !
Seems he changed his mind when the source of the governments income left in 1861 !

Fraud...I hope black people understand this. The South was wealthy(one of the wealthiest areas in the world at that time - largely due to slavery), commanded financial and political influence that the north could not rival. There were slaves all over America, but the climate of the South at the time made it more profitable. To equal the balance of power and influence, something had to be done. So the idea of emancipating black people was forged. For obvious reasons neither Southern or Northern plantation owners could continue business as usual without a slave to tend the fields, seed the cotton, and all the other invaluable chores slavery provided at the time. This is where the nation fractured, the seeds of secession were finalized (in Allendale County,S.C.) and the Civil War was soon to follow
While it's great that my black ancestors were emancipated...it's clear that the Civil War was not about black people's civil liberties and more about the sharing (or perhaps the domination) of wealth between Northerners and Southerners...It's almost akin to the spin George W. created about going to war in Iraq...Not saying that Lincoln is no good...but everyone should make their own judgment after really learning the history and politics of the man and the time...

Lincoln is the best president that I've ever seen. everything nasty about him is false. and people who think
that he is fictional and dishonest are just stupid enough to believe all other ludicrous stories about Lincoln.
I've always admired his courage and the willingness to do what is right. people who are drudging up false
information about him have nothing else to do , I guess.

Lincoln is the best president that I've ever seen. everything nasty about him is false. and people who think
that he is fictional and dishonest are just stupid enough to believe all other ludicrous stories about Lincoln.
I've always admired his courage and the willingness to do what is right. people who are drudging up false
information about him have nothing else to do , I guess.

Lincoln is the best president that I've ever seen. everything nasty about him is false. and people who think
that he is fictional and dishonest are just stupid enough to believe all other ludicrous stories about Lincoln.
I've always admired his courage and the willingness to do what is right. people who are drudging up false
information about him have nothing else to do , I guess.

Praising Lincoln is on the same level as praising Hitler . Here is a man who was one of the biggest presidential dictators ever . Lincoln single handedly was responsible for the civil war which resulted in 620,000 deaths , millions of wounded , and billions of dollars damage to the South . He did not free one slave . The Emancipation Proclamation was admittedly a war measure and did not declare freedom for slaves in his home state . His nickname " Honest Abe " was given to him in sarcasm by his peers . Wake up people ! Your hero is fictional !

One of the most interesting books out there now is about his fight with the Roman Catholic church in their attempt to divide the country and establish a theocratically backed maonarchy. This amazing work; The Transformation of the Republic, ctwilcox.com, has material in it that historians have no idea existed as it was hidden in a basement in Quebec for over 120 years. Incredible research and very pertinent to the current war.

Potamos, what's wrong with being a libertarian? Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers were proponents of libertarian ideals like small limited government and state's rights. Those were the building blocks of our great nation. Lincoln on the other hand was devoted to Henry Clay's 'American System' of centralized Hamiltonian power. He suspended habeas corpus and trampled on a states??? right of nullification and secession that were both an integral part of the original republic. Ironically the "Great Emancipator" himself never fully came to grips with the fact that all men are created equal. Just read the words of his original speeches in their original context and entirety.

Citi-zen, DiLorenzo is a libertarian Confederate apologist that makes major errors of both fact and logic in his books. He starts with his political ideology and then writes his history to fit it, rather than taking as objective a look at the facts as possible. His is no more a factual history of Lincoln than the histories of some of the Stalin-era soviet historians used to write.

Perhaps the best source of information on our 16th president is contained in Thomas Dilorenzo's "The Real Lincoln." Extensively researched and cited it shows how he single-handedly thrust this once great nation of limited government and freedom down a ruinous path to empire and fascism. Read it, check the sources for yourself, and prepare your mind for a paradigm shift that can only be equated to the first time you realized that Santa Claus wasn't real.

For many years I have been fastinated with Abraham Lincoln and have assembled quite a personal library of books related to him. (and read them all) I am a 40 something and feel reading about such a great leader is an inspiration to me both personally and professionally. I recently did a term paper on Lincoln as a leader - my closing was to be reading the Gettisburg address, however, I was so caught up in the power; emotion and passion of Mr. Lincoln, that I had to recuse myself from reading it. I was overwhelmed by his greatness.