Perfect Game

We all lose when votes are against someone rather than for something. I believe in debating issues and ideas, not identity and personality. An informed electorate is said to be the foundation of democracy; the press does us a disservice by focusing on the horse race (I think actually promoting it for ratings). Obama has pushed the issue his followers will not vote for Clinton, that is such a rookie move! It has obviously angered Clinton supporters, but all democrats have to wonder how committed these people are to party principles. If they believe republican smears about Hillary, will they not also abandon Obama?
Also remember this is supposed to be a party nomination. I have caught republicans dishing dirt about Obama and Clinton hoping some will believe it and others will blame the other democrat for dirty politics. I think this may include stirring up the race and religion issues.
Look for a re-post of my repost about my experience at the WA. caucus and republican attempts to influence the nomination. They know who the strongest candidate is and are desperately trying to conceal their fear of losing.

Comment: The scenario is: Clinton/Obama=win/win, making history with a real change; Obama/Not Clinton=lose/lose without making history, or change. If Senator Obama wins the nomination, most likely, he will not choose Hillary Clinton as his running-mate. He will be advised not to do so because of the Clinton???s past reputation of personal baggage that would otherwise be no one else???s concern. They lead the country well, despite the negative publicity about their personal life, which has nothing to do with the other. The Clintons are brilliant people and I don???t remember our African-American communities complaining then, especially when the economy was so much better. Now some of us are turning on them simply because Obama is running for the presidency, knowing they would more than happily vote for her otherwise. I don???t understand why a lot of the African-American community has turn there backs on the Clintons. They were not our enemies then, and they shouldn???t be now. I can say with confidence that if Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, she will chose Obama as her running-mate, and they will be unstoppable against the republicans, and will win in the end, for sure. There are also four unofficial groups of people voting for Mrs Clinton:
1. Those people wanting to vote for the first female Commander-in-Chief.
2. The people that have been loyal voters for the Clintons
3. The people that want a Democrat, but not Obama or any minority for president..
4. The people that want real change (Clinton/Obama 2008)
Keep in mind that Hillary Clinton, will get the White, Black, and Hispanic votes, without agendas, or conspiracies. Without a Democrat in the country???s top job, our country will be in even worse shape to come.While I am hope that you pass this on, the ultimate history to be made is in the making for our country to have the first woman/former first lady for President of the United States, and the first African-American Vice President. Why not? After all, television and radio stations are contributing influence on what people will decide in November 08.

Clinton needs to forget it and sit down or go make a meal or has she forgotten how to be a submissive woman?

Falconer2: Obama, although wanting to set a date for withdrawel also wants to get out as carefully as Hillary does. They actually listen to the same advisors on this point. He reserves the right to change the withdrawel date if it means an imminent blood bath. I don't believe that their different strategies on this issue merit enough difference to make an opinon that Hillary would be better at withdrawel. I've said this before, but Clinton and Obama strategies are very similar. My opinion is that Obama can win, while I feel Clinton has a mark against her due to prior bias. (47% of the country say they would never vote for her). I appreciate your ability to discuss this sanely, however, as so many Clinton vs. Obama discussions seem to become ridiculous name-calling debates, especially when you consider how close their views really are.

Here are some realities that neither group wants to face: Both candidates are establishment insiders
Both are corporate-state politicians. Large sources of Obama money are law firms, investment houses, and real estate companies, and 80 percent of his donors are affiliated with business, compared to 85 percent for Clinton.Neither are true progressives or populists, like Kucinich and Edwards.
Both Clinton the fighter and Obama the talker will sell out once they confront presidential realities. Why? Because plutocracies know how to retain power AFTER elections. After two years it will be clear that the new president will have failed to extract the US from Iraq, will have failed to deliver universal health care, will have failed to address illegal immigration, will have done nothing to get a new and serious 9/11 investigation, will have done nothing to stop middle-class-killing globalization, and will have utterly disappointed the vast majority of Americans.
Finally, for those seeking serious political system reforms, it is troubling that neither Clinton nor, especially, Obama have the courage to advocate needed constitutional amendments, such as replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote for president, getting all private money out of politics, making universal health care a right, and preventing presidential signing statements that undermine laws.

Here are some realities that neither group wants to face: Both candidates are establishment insiders
Both are corporate-state politicians. Large sources of Obama money are law firms, investment houses, and real estate companies, and 80 percent of his donors are affiliated with business, compared to 85 percent for Clinton.Neither are true progressives or populists, like Kucinich and Edwards.
Both Clinton the fighter and Obama the talker will sell out once they confront presidential realities. Why? Because plutocracies know how to retain power AFTER elections. After two years it will be clear that the new president will have failed to extract the US from Iraq, will have failed to deliver universal health care, will have failed to address illegal immigration, will have done nothing to get a new and serious 9/11 investigation, will have done nothing to stop middle-class-killing globalization, and will have utterly disappointed the vast majority of Americans.
Finally, for those seeking serious political system reforms, it is troubling that neither Clinton nor, especially, Obama have the courage to advocate needed constitutional amendments, such as replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote for president, getting all private money out of politics, making universal health care a right, and preventing presidential signing statements that undermine laws.

Genie you point out how the Repulicans will attack Clinton just for spite. Of course the Democrats are doing that to Bush now as the Republicans did to Bill Clinton before Bush. Unfortunately this IS the petty world in DC.
As for now though I personally would prefer to get it out now and solved before the Republicans get into it (and you know they will) If it IS in fact a liability as I said... Then I'd prefer to have an electable candidate running wouldn't you? Hillary can win against McCain.
She will keep us in the war until the area is stable... we can't just "run away" and get out now as Obama is saying and McCain will keep us tied up there too long.
All in All I agree with Grandfather ... and THAT is the problem in the Middle East ...there they believe in revenge and hold on to problems of the past, rather than strive for peace now.

Olufemi the Nigerian is gloating that Obama has "african origin". Does it matter to rest of us? Yes, it will help to win him primary by sweeping up all Afr american votes. All obamites are out here. somebody asks why don't we talk about issues. When did Oabama campaign really talk about issues , other than 'change' ?

When asked in the book Saddam???s Revenge ??? ???How can we have peace in the world????

Grandfather responded??? ???Leave behind you the baggage of yesterday and the fears for tomorrow. Strive for peace within you today and it will come to you, and as everyone joins you ??? to the world.???

Thank you Genie for listening and responding without the name calling and trying to quell it...

Welll again my point doesn't include moderates... The problem is that there are MANY readicals making a lot of noise (the most noise as is typical) in the Islamic world. They will attack using any info including false info. If Obama did or did not infact go to a Muslim School, won't matter to them. They will tell their people he did and they will still order a Fatwah against him. This will cause the Muslim people (highly uneducated people... and the uneducated tend to believe and follow those that they belive ..."in the know") to be against Obama as well.
So now with this the more Liberal Leaders will have a dilemma ... Do they stand up aganst their people and try to quell disconsent... or do they stay away from Obama an appear to be ONE with their people ...
My fear is that they don't rock the boat... (OK maybe that's a bad concept for a sandy world)

I'm not sure who Olufemi's comment was addressed to, but I agree with the fact that Obama has the best shot to make a new administration vibrant for everyone. Hillary is lacking in many ways. I feel almost sorry for her after seeing the 60 minutes show last week. Pathetic and delusioned is how she appeared to me.

Thanks Darkenight, I was hoping that was true. I hadn't read about the muslim school, but I had heard it through these types of misleading forums. Okay, to Quitthe preaching... his present vote was what the abortion rights activists wanted him to use. He did it to further the causes, not because he was afraid to make a stand. I think it's insane that the dems are fighting within our party. Hillary and Barack are very similar in their positions, I am voting for Obama because he is the better person for the job. Hillary will be stonewalled, and she "owes" favors to lobbyists and such for their $ support.

clinton will do whatever it takes to win ( lie, cheat, steal,etc.); witch hillary comes from the corrupt past .
she wants blacks to think she can take care of them, they cant take care of themselves. i trust obama.
i will never vote for her not even for veep.