The Military vs. Berkeley

Every war will have its protesters. Noone wants to see our country's men and women in harm's way. Turning this Berkeley case into a national story, and opening up this topic for discussion is proof alone that there is a definite ripple effect. Flag burning, calling soldiers baby-killers, and denying the military its constitutional right to seek recruits does not sound like an answer to our problems. Yes, there are many things that are wrong within our political system. However, we can't remain a free country without the strength and supremacy of our military. Not all wars are just. Ideally, war would cease to exist. Realistically, we will never be free from war. We have a volunteer/professional military, and thank god for that, because the only other alternative would be a drafted military. As much as you may disagree with this war or this president, you should be ashamed for blaming the military. As much as I hear the liberal left say that they are anti-war, not anti-American, this is clearly a case that shows that some citizens cannot be anti-war without being anti-American. Unlike most other countries, we at least have a shot at fixing things. It will not happen over night. But to undermine the strength of our military, puts the whole of the nation in much greater and quite real danger....extermination.

Flag burning, calling soldiers baby-killers, and denying the military its constitutional right to seek recruits does not sound like an answer to our problems. Yes, there are many things that are wrong within our political system. However, we can't remain a free country without the strength and supremacy of our military. Not all wars are just. Ideally, war would cease to exist. Realistically, we will never be free from war. We have a volunteer/professional military, and thank god for that, because the only other alternative would be a drafted military. As much as you may disagree with this war or this president, you should be ashamed for blaming the military. As much as I hear the liberal left say that they are anti-war, not anti-American, this is clearly a case that shows that some citizens cannot be anti-war without being anti-American. Unlike most other countries, we at least have a shot at fixing things. It will not happen over night. But to undermine the strength of our military, puts the whole of the nation at a much greater risk....extermination.

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I don't need to do much research to see that the liberal anti-war protesters were wrong after Pearl Harbor. Where would the world be today? Some things are worth fighting for. For example, the right of the Marines to recruit when and wherever they wish to.
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I think the thing that most people are forget is that our military is comprised of volunteers. As a Marine for the last three years, I feel I have a right to be upset. And frankly the actions of the citizens of Berkeley fill me with sorrow and disappointment. I joined at the age of nineteen, young and with a limited world view. However, in my brief, but amazing time in the Marine Corps, I have had the pleasure of traveling to other countries. Not to wage war, or bring destruction to the, but in support of reconstruction and humanitarian efforts. Americans, as a people, are some of the most privileged yet selfish people I???ve come across. They sit and protest the wave signs with such comments as ???Thank God for I.E.Ds.??? or ???Thank God for dead soldiers.??? Yet when a drop box for M.S or March of Dimes is with-in view they walk the other way. As volunteers in the armed forces of these United States of America, we see a side of the world that most will never see. We see the atrocities brought on to innocent people by their leaders. We see the starving children, and the wounded men and women who can???t get the medical attention the y need. Yet the only thing the citizens of this great county really care about is the falling economy, or rising fuel prices. To the protesters I ask this, why do you feel this is an immoral war? Could it be because women and children are sold into slavery on a regular basis? Maybe not in the most literal of senses, but if you were told you weren???t allowed to attend school because of your gender, or economic status, would you not consider that a form of slavery and oppression. Before you judge the fine men and women I have the pleasure of serving with, please take a moment to think about the reason you???re judging them. And think about what they would think of you, were they not willingly putting their lives on the line for people who can???t do so for themselves. Many of us don???t agree with the politics of the situations for which we are called to respond to. But we all have one common ideal, the preservation of freedom, and the protection of our beloved country.

I grew up in Berkeley in the 1960's and '70s. My brothers got draft numbers for the Vietnam War. As a family we were as liberal as they come - anit-war, anti-Nixon. Now I'm married to a man who comes from a miitary family - dad, stepdad and brother who is a commander in the Navy. I have been deeply affected by the liberal politics of Berkeley but have also come to realize that people who choose to serve in the military often do it for love of the people of the USA. They may or may not believe in this catastrophic war, a war that is a result of considerable deception and obfuscation. But whether they go willingly or with reservation, as people they deserve our support because they choose to do what most of us would not do - put our lives at great risk for the benefit of others. We can be more nuanced than the good citizens of Berkeley appear to be these days. Hate the cause but never the people, my dear friends. My brother-in-law is a man worthy of your respect as are the others with whom he serves.

By the way, I now live in India and the view that Americans are hated around the world is not quite accurate. Our government is largely hated; George Bush is vilified. But there is often the ability abroad to do what we as Americans have difficulty doing, separating the people from the politics. They wonder at us, why we would twice elect an unmitigated pest as our national leader but they do get that not all of us love him. But we certainly have a great deal of repair work to do in the near future if we are truly to be friends with others who share this planet wth us. Let's elect a president who will move us forward and ask our military to help us with that task. Berkeley City Council, you embarrass me when you behave in the same reactionary manner as the ultra-conservatives. Let there be some shades of gray and uphold the reputation of this visionary city as a bastion of tolerance.

To Enyblanco87: You are so young. Most countries not only live with the threat of terrorism but face the reality of that happening on a daily basis. 9/11 won't easily be forgotten, but we live a blessed life here in this country. We've only had two attacks on our country, the other being Pearl Harbor, and we should be thankful for that.
"All of you people that want to stop fighting are inviting them to attack again, and in my opinion that makes me feel that you don't give a crap about the country"--You really bought that whole you're-either-with-us-or-against-us Bush mentality. And the fact that you are only 20 years old makes your words all the more frightening. Think about your words; do they even make sense?
The reality is, whether or not we wage a "unmorale" war anywhere in the Middle East, they can attack us. Protesting the war or wanting the fighting to stop won't stop terrorism. Face it, MOST of the world hates us (Have you traveled abroad in the last 10 years?), and sometimes we give them good reason. Sometimes we don't. I definitely won't be "the first ones crying if something else were to happen" because I now expect it to happen. And it will happen again. Just a fact of life.
So you don't think worst has come to worse? You are young, go fight for what you believe. Many of my relatives are, and I support them though I am against the war. I'm actually offended that you would say you'd go fight but haven't done so when my relatives are risking their lives for your freedoms.

i live in nyc and have lived here all my life. being 20 years of age i have thought about joining the military myself. in short these people that are protesting need to stop. its BS. These terrorsist cells do not care about anything but bringing destruction to this country. All of you people that want to stop fighting are inviting them to attack again, and in my opinion that makes me feel that you do not give a crap about the country. I personally will remember 9/11 for the rest of my life and unlike some of you i do not want that to happen again and if it means fighting in something of what you call unmorale (cannot spell sorry) then so be it. And if worst comes to worst YES I WOULD GO FIGHT MYSELF! Don't be such pushovers because you will be the first ones crying if something else were to happen again. Seriously though if you are one of those people go move to France! However i can reason with going to Iraq, i feel bin laden and afghanistan should be a main focus. GOD BLESS THE U.S.A. and the TROOPS WILLING To fight for itl

Just a point here....

Law Encyclopedia: Sabotage
This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.

The willful destruction or impairment of, or defective production of, war material or national defense material, or harm to war premises or war utilities. During a labor dispute, the willful and malicious destruction of an employer's property or interference with his normal operations.

The objective of sabotage is to halt all production, rather than to destroy or imperil human life. The original act of sabotage is thought to have occurred not long after the introduction of machinery when someone slipped a workman's wooden shoe, called a sabot, into a loom in order to stop production. Sabotage is a crime.

Word Tutor: sabotage

IN BRIEF: To damage or destroy intentionally.

All business sagacity reduces itself in the last analysis to judicious use of sabotage. ??? Thorstein Veblen (1857-1929), American economist.

Wikipedia: sabotage
Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening an enemy, oppressor or employer through subversion, obstruction, disruption, and/or destruction.

I would guess that under the law I read it here the City Council is guilty of SABOTAGE agenst the USMC. As a Marine of the Viet Nam era (1969)) I will have to say this smacks of Hanoi Jane type BullS*** stuff, but that would be giving to much credit to this trator lady. I would like for o0nce to see the Goverment stand up and defend the wonderful people in our armed services as they should and throw all members of this City Council in jail. what this city has done is beyond belief . Who dothey think gave them the Rights they are so loud at using. Hanoi Jane maybre.

Another AMERICAN City Shuns The Marines. The city of Toledo has kicked the US ... Marines don't frighten me! They give me comfort and confidence that our ...
bearingdriftohio.blogspot.com/2008/02/another-american-city-shuns-marines.html - 92k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this and here is another one,Mayor kicks Marines out of Toledo well this is what I heard on monday night, I guess it is kinda like Columbia
1-24th Marines were scheduled for weekend urban warfare training in downtown Toledo, when Carty gave them the boot
Carty 180

By Darsha Philips
Posted: Saturday, February 09, 2008 at 2:05 p.m.

TOLEDO, OH -- Mayor Carty Finkbeiner on Friday ordered some 200 members of Company A, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines from Grand Rapids, Michigan, out of Toledo

To Jadantes: Not all students at Berkeley are "elite" and "privileged". Both my husband and I, graduates from UC Berkeley come from extremely poor families. Both of our families struggled to put us through college there. We knew life was hard and unfair WELL before ever setting foot at this "elite" school. Not only did I receive an excellent education, but I learned to be myself and stand up for what I believe in. Have you ever heard of free speech? Guess not, since you didn't get into Berkeley. I'm sorry for you.
In a way you're right: I am "elite" and "priveleged" not because of material gain but because of my wonderful education that I thank God for each and every day.
By the way, I'm sure all those "spoiled brats" that graduate from this brilliant college most likely won't have a problem finding a job. You won't believe all the open doors and opportunities a degree from CAL get you. I' Maybe if you got in, you might have.

I can't believe that someone would bother to travel to Berkeley from Columbia, GA to protest the CITY of Berkeley's policy for "fear of this kind of thing spreading." Being from Georgia, Miriam Tidwell must certainly be aware that most of this country isn't as open-minded or forward-thinking as the inhabitants of the People's Republic of Berkeley. GO BEARS!

As a police officer and a MSgt in the Air Force I am appalled by this statement. Do so many americans forget over 200 years ago, marines, naval seaman, gaurdsman and militia cam forth to challenge and defened the right to be an independent country, free from oppression and grant the rights or free speech and bring forth the bill of rights and constitution. I embrace your right to free speech, however it is what you say that hurts the men and women of the military. The sad thing is, your call to duty is to be as politically active and not generally thought of as a "morally upstanding position." The men and women of the military know a thing about HONOR, GOD, COUNTRY, and ALLEGIANCE, COMMITMENT, DUTY, and INTEGRITY. They fight and do a thankless job that is made worse by your rhetoric and bullshit. Bring them home yes. Kick them down and break their spirit and morale, no. I truly believe karma will come back on you all. GOD BLESS THE TROOPS! As a fellow service member I thank you for your sacrifice and devotion. I thank your family for the support they give you and their sacrifce as well. God Bless you all!

These people are just plain stupid, it take a truly brave person to serve in any branch of the military. They stand back and complain and spout anti Marines slogans. If it werent for our brave soldiers they wouldnt be able to have freedom. If they have a proble let them march on Washington, they direct where our soldiers go. They sign up to serve our country and take orders as thus. These people have no sense of HONOR.

Berkeley is just a nutcase city filled with whackjobs. Protesting Marines is easy. Doing the right thing is always harder.

Why are they protesting? It's not like Vietnam. They can't get drafted. And if they say it's because they care for the troops, that's a load of crap. Protesting the war on terror is just the in thing now a days. These are the same type of people who wanted the US to pull out of WWII before we barely got started. Liberals preach about their love for mankind but seem to forget about the suffering that went on in Iraq before the invasion. They , for some reason, forget that all freedom has to be fought for against those who would rule the world through intimadation, murder and whatever else they deem necessary. I still think that those who say they support the troops but not the war are as full of it as the christmas turkey.

All I have to say is this, we as a nation should support our troops. They take orders that our elected government employees put into policy . We should be actively changing these officials if we do not agree with their choice of policy instead of sitting back and doing nothing. We do not need to wait for elections to remove people from office there are other legal means. That is what people should be focused on not the troops.