EUROPE

Agony and the Ecstasy

Italy barely functions. Yet its people are happy. What explains this?

By Jacopo Barigazzi, Barbie Nadeau and Christopher Dickey | NEWSWEEK
Updated: 11:15  a.m. ET Feb 16, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Feb 25, 2008

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  • Posted By: massimone @ 03/25/2008 1:17:46 PM

    Dear Newsweek scribes, it's all very well to write disparaging articles about Italy (of course you lot are better than anybody else) but, i wonder, should you not be more concerned about the stinking stae of your sinking economy?
    Ciao

  • Posted By: Valhall @ 03/04/2008 11:17:02 AM

    I have to agree. Italians ( I being one)are short-sighted ; we reflect our past ( made of thousands of wars against each other without really accomplishing anything substantial ,if not a whole lot of bureaucracy) and our government . What Italians really want is an easy way out, they just have to make sure that others don't "see "it ( and even in that case , we haven't done a great job) so you'll notice Italians with the latest and most expensive trendy outfit and most expensive cars without having enough money in the bank to pay their loan( don't ask how they bought the car though .) and that's why the industries Italy excels in are fashion , cars, etc) .We are represented by what we are and what is really and truly disappointing is that it will not change. Have you noticed our politicians after the fall of the government ,are the same and have just changed the name of the party they belong in ? At this point after the elections in the US, Bush might as well show up as a candidate (the only candidate) with different color hair. Well I could go and and on and probably never stop. I believe we need help. And that help is not within Italy.

  • Posted By: pisolo1973 @ 02/19/2008 4:02:02 PM

    It's the usual article full of opinions that remain on the surface of the real facts. First of all you have to consider that there are two Italy. The northern part which ranks between the three most rich regions of Europe and the southern one (Naples and its trash included) similar to the third world countries. The first one is the home of a vital presence of SME (small and medium enterprises) which constitute the real Italian economic strenght. Ferrari, Fiat and Armani, despite being an excellent example of the Italian entrepeneur spirit, are not the only economic pillars of the country. Moreover public services and civil spirit are far compared to the southern ones. For instance in Milan the recycling of the trash represents the 50% of the total compared with the 5/10% in Naples. This part of Italy is fighting hard. There is an actual problem of payroll level, price are comparable to Paris or London while salaries to Athens or worst. There's a saying: "salaries are still expressed in "lira" while prices in "Euro". But I don't find anywhere that Italian unemployement level is lower than the French one (Paris banlieu riots...), that the public health system (with exceptions, of course) ranks between the first ones in the world (USA? Michael Moore? Rings a bell?) or that Milan has one of the broadest fiber optic network or the most important fair/exposition system in all Europe. There's still hope.

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/26/2008 12:16:11 PM

      uffffffff............
      dio mio, dio mio
      che noia

  • Posted By: biancolina @ 02/22/2008 7:31:19 PM

    I am an american living in Italy now for 5 years (florence/prato), and I can say with certainty that there are two essential problems with Italians and their modern culture.

    Numer one is "la furbizia". It's kind of like being "sneaky" or sly and Italians consider it a sort of social intelligence. It is a way of getting around something (rules/buracracy/mamma, etc) to get what you want or need. The book "The Dark Heart of Italy" explains it well. Italians have always had to figure out another way to get what they wanted or needed because nothing ever came easily, for obvious reasons. I personally find it creepy.

    The second thing is that Italians are, I'll put it this way, "All talk and no action." Why haven't Italian citizens stood up for themselves? Sure they protest, they go on strike, but all that ever does is give them a long weekend and leave me without transportation for a day. It's because they DONT SHUT UP. Go ahead, take a trip to Italy, get a coffee at ANY bar, and even if you don't understand a word of italian, you will hear everyone complaining about something. They call it talking, but it's complaining. And at the end of the story, they go home, have dinner (or a 3 hour lunch at home) complain some more, watch the news, complain some more, watch some bad, totally biased tv (theres the Left channels and the Right channels) go to sleep and start the same thing over again. They pay too many taxes, have no benefits except for the WHOLE month of august for vacation (probably to distract them), and if they get sick, they might accidentally get aids from an untested organ transplant (didn't you guys hear about that? Michael Moore, you should come to Italy.)

    Of course, I have chosen to live here, for love, and i do love Italy, and thats what makes me so angry and frustrated. i keep trying to figure out how i can help...but honestly, there is nothing I could do. And thats sad.

    • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/24/2008 11:43:26 AM

      well yoo can be right for one hand ,but you just talking generally and you say nothing..maybe you must know more things before talking

      • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/26/2008 4:59:16 AM

        To you neve :)

        well yoo can be right for one hand ,but you just talking generally and you say nothing..maybe you must know more things before talking

  • Posted By: elisa32 @ 02/25/2008 6:43:41 PM

    This article, I think, is intended to make all people, Italian and non Italian be a little be aware of what is happening in Italy. There is no point to take it personally, it is great to be able to share views, ideas, opinions and criticism (although this it is not our favorite). There is no point in taking phrases and twisting them to justify or explain things that most people that live or have lived in Italy already know. We have to look at the general picture, and understand and accept that Italy as beautiful as it may be, has big problems and unfortunately they are not so easy to solve. As for Venice? I will have to believe that is being saved when I see it.

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/26/2008 4:56:05 AM

      Posted By: elisa32 @ 02/21/2008 10:24:02

      "Comment: The thing is that most Italians think they are at the same level of other Europen nations such as Germany and the UK and don't think there is much to change."

      What?? What do you say, Elisa. Yes we are zimbawe, no television, nothing. Yes sure we dont know!!! Incredible.

      "When you tell an Italian there is such a thing as drive-through banking (in the USA) or that the government gives a family money for their children every month (in the UK) they think you are kidding."

      BOOOOOOOOOOOM!
      I announce you, genius, that italian state gives money for children to family, of this poor italian primitives, just as your fabulous country! Incredible.

      "They don't know better, how can they take responsibility for something they don't know?"

      Si. Sure. Ciao

      Ok people.
      This is my last post here.
      I believe it's correct say goodbye to you.
      Stay well, people.
      Ciao

  • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/25/2008 11:37:59 AM

    Excellent article, Yacopo Barigazzi, Barbie Nadeau and Christopher Dickey.
    Yes its so.
    Italy is crasching down. I know. BUT
    ehehheh
    Italians are happy!! Yes people! Happy! Did you hear?
    Why?
    They say that "things with friends and parents are ok!"
    Did you understand? ahhahahhahah They are happy! and so...
    Goliardic! wow!!! they are in excstasy (cause they stay well with parents and friends) while their country is in agony, and do you know why??
    ihihiihi
    Cause this stupid auto-smiling italian, lives in his family-centric society and he knows, this nullity, that his MOTHER will solve all his problems!
    AHHAHAHHAHAHAHH

    Always i asked myself:
    Why Her Majesty, the acid English (like i call you, oh, only in myself, sure, not in public!)
    hates so much my smiling!
    Boh!
    Maybe a day i will understand this misterious thing!
    Bah! Maybe
    Excellent.

  • Posted By: ufficio stampa @ 02/25/2008 9:20:41 AM

    Venice will soon be protected from all high waters.

    We are astonished to read in the article Agony and the Ecstasy appearing in the international edition of "Newsweek" on February 16 that the project to protect Venice from high waters "put forth by Berlusconi was shelved by Prodi".
    Quite the opposite. Implementation of the project began in 2003, 40% has now been completed and financing amounts to ??? 2,443 million with respect to a requirement of ??? 4,271. The project will be completed in a total of eight years and will definitively protect Venice and the entire lagoon area from high waters, even in the light of pessimistic forecasts for a rise in sea level.
    The go-ahead for implementation of the project was decided by the Berlusconi Government in 2003 and confirmed by the Prodi Government in 2006. Work has never been interrupted. Currently a workforce of 700 is active in the 15 km work site at the three lagoon inlets, with spin-off employment amounting to at least three times that figure.
    The news given in your weekly is therefore incomprehensible and entirely without foundation.
    To verify the above and the work underway through up-to-date images, we invite you to visit the sites of the Ministry of Infrastructure www.infrastrutture.gov.it and its local organ, the Venice Water Authority, www.salve.it.

    Consorzio Venezia Nuova
    Venice Water Authority Concessionary

  • Posted By: ufficio stampa @ 02/25/2008 9:18:51 AM

    Venice will soon be protected from all high waters.

    We are astonished to read in the article Agony and the Ecstasy appearing in the international edition of "Newsweek" on February 16 that the project to protect Venice from high waters "put forth by Berlusconi was shelved by Prodi".
    Quite the opposite. Implementation of the project began in 2003, 40% has now been completed and financing amounts to ??? 2,443 million with respect to a requirement of ??? 4,271. The project will be completed in a total of eight years and will definitively protect Venice and the entire lagoon area from high waters, even in the light of pessimistic forecasts for a rise in sea level.
    The go-ahead for implementation of the project was decided by the Berlusconi Government in 2003 and confirmed by the Prodi Government in 2006. Work has never been interrupted. Currently a workforce of 700 is active in the 15 km work site at the three lagoon inlets, with spin-off employment amounting to at least three times that figure.
    The news given in your weekly is therefore incomprehensible and entirely without foundation.
    To verify the above and the work underway through up-to-date images, we invite you to visit the sites of the Ministry of Infrastructure www.infrastrutture.gov.it and its local organ, the Venice Water Authority, www.salve.it.

    Consorzio Venezia Nuova
    Venice Water Authority Concessionary

  • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/22/2008 12:01:03 PM

    Hi,I live in Prato in Tuscany and i can say that... it's always the same problem..Everybody says "italians" like ...once you have a country you have the same people everywhere,same culture,same mentality...I agree with pisolo1973 when he writes we still have two Italy..
    In my region the garbage recycle is more to the 40% and in some areas of my province we reached the 73%.I know my area very well and the people here worked very hard,but paying al ot af taxex for nothing in change.
    I think that if you have the garbage in front of your house you don't have to wait for the others to clean,but you organize yourself to do something.every small thing done by one person is a brick of something bigger...but you must have the same mentality everywhere otherwise it doesn't work...That's why we have two different countries.Answering to Vipera i can tell :why don't you go and talk to them to make them changing their mentality..How???
    It's not so easy,even for the honest people who live there
    There are things in my region we have to change i agree and I fight everyday to change,but I can't do anything for who doesn't want to change the mentality in that area of the south.too far away..The organized crime is most in three region campania,calabria,sicily since ever and it's been exported to germany,US australia and the north. in Milan for example there are areas of immigrants of calabria where they pay the Pizzo to each other..like in Germany..
    Unfortunatly for the young people who would like to change all this sh...
    Most of them students,that have no chance in the south,they have to move to have a better life..do you still think it's a national problem??ask them how they live there,ask them how difficult is to be honest there.If you are not a mafioso you have a "mafiosa" mentality there,expecially in calabria where it's everywhere
    Prato is full of people of the south,the first ones arrived here in the 60s.We had the same problems we're having now with the new immigrants.Now they are well integrated,fortunatly for them and for us.but they never went back to the south for logically reasons.
    If you vote for somebody here you can find the honest person,logically the bad person as well.
    But if you vote in the south you vote for the mafia of the left side or the right side.That's why many people(the honests ones) in the south don't go to vote.
    Yes we're still the country of 1800...just few things chanched.
    I don't consider myself italian or european,I'm a citizen of the world,but i see the differences.
    If you want to change what is around you ,you first have to change yourself.

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 6:07:16 AM

      "But if you vote in the south you vote for the mafia of the left side or the right side".
      Ok neve. Problems with south things in Italy. It's ok.
      Neve... south things.
      You know, history is imposrtant. Study history of your country, and you will understand many things, but first of all, i understand if English generalize so easy, but please, let's try to be Italians. This is our problem, Neve. We are always deviuded, always one against other, left right, north south, catholic laicals, student teachers, and so on. This is our drama. And believe me, Neve. I come from the south del nostro bellissimo e sofferente paese. If i go in Prato, i dont need to integrate. Neve.

      • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 7:14:46 AM

        "The organized crime is most in three region campania,calabria,sicily since ever and it's been exported to germany,US australia and the north. in Milan for example there are areas of immigrants of calabria where they pay the Pizzo to each other..like in Germany.."

        Yes, i agree with you. But in Bergamo, that is more in the north than you, there are, like you know if you see news in your country, most of the great industries that made affairs with mafia.

        • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/24/2008 11:57:06 AM

          yes,bad people are everywhere,but they come from if you have a country where these things ars allow.you see...even if you have industries,some industies,that make affairs with mafia in the north that's because it comes from the south and find bad people in the north as well,mafia not from there originally(that's hostory,read it )..like in germany or US..
          Everybody knows it...or you agree with mafia as well..
          Admit it please,the reality is this
          ..I don't need to read the history,i know it...but you need to wake up and do something to change the bad situation of the south,not always talking about the fault of the history...
          Please we cant' stand it anymore...In one word things are better in the north and very bad in the south..and it's not always somebody else fault
          You're from the south,but you work in the north because there you found a job,easier than in the south..

          • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/25/2008 7:15:14 AM

            Simply:
            You didnt understand my words.
            Ciao, concittadina che non si sente Italiana.

        • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/24/2008 12:04:14 PM

          you don't need to integrate now if you are a good person...why would you do...but i was born here and my parents as well..we know what happened with the first immigrants...the same thing that is happening now with the new immigrants..the same thing that happened in the US new yourk ,chicago,meaburne ecc

        • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/24/2008 12:00:59 PM

          p.s. the small and medium industry made the italian economy...full of people who paied taxes and worked honestly..it's not the same thing in the south...most of them worked illegally...what do they give to the country???

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 7:17:00 AM

      "I don't consider myself italian "
      Yes, i see.
      Me not. I consider myself Italian.

  • Posted By: biancolina @ 02/22/2008 7:32:27 PM

    I am an american living in Italy now for 5 years (florence/prato), and I can say with certainty that there are two essential problems with Italians and their modern culture.

    Numer one is "la furbizia". It's kind of like being "sneaky" or sly and Italians consider it a sort of social intelligence. It is a way of getting around something (rules/buracracy/mamma, etc) to get what you want or need. The book "The Dark Heart of Italy" explains it well. Italians have always had to figure out another way to get what they wanted or needed because nothing ever came easily, for obvious reasons. I personally find it creepy.

    The second thing is that Italians are, I'll put it this way, "All talk and no action." Why haven't Italian citizens stood up for themselves? Sure they protest, they go on strike, but all that ever does is give them a long weekend and leave me without transportation for a day. It's because they DONT SHUT UP. Go ahead, take a trip to Italy, get a coffee at ANY bar, and even if you don't understand a word of italian, you will hear everyone complaining about something. They call it talking, but it's complaining. And at the end of the story, they go home, have dinner (or a 3 hour lunch at home) complain some more, watch the news, complain some more, watch some bad, totally biased tv (theres the Left channels and the Right channels) go to sleep and start the same thing over again. They pay too many taxes, have no benefits except for the WHOLE month of august for vacation (probably to distract them), and if they get sick, they might accidentally get aids from an untested organ transplant (didn't you guys hear about that? Michael Moore, you should come to Italy.)

    Of course, I have chosen to live here, for love, and i do love Italy, and thats what makes me so angry and frustrated. i keep trying to figure out how i can help...but honestly, there is nothing I could do. And thats sad.

    • Posted By: neve1971 @ 02/24/2008 12:09:34 PM

      P.s. if you lived in Prato you must have seen thet people here worked very hard honestly to have what they have now,not asking anything to anybody..before complain try to know things....you're not in the US..Italians are very different in cultures and mentality...read the history and also the modern history and the evolution...look at the Veneto for example

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 7:39:04 AM

      biancolina, creepy is a term that it's better using in other moments. Like for example killing people to take their oil. Or killing people flying with your military airplain few metres from the ground, in a country that is not your. It's better using creepy in this moments.
      I really dislike that you are so sad, Biancolina. Really. I'm really frustrated for this. I know. You dont figure out how you can help poor Italian people! Oh, my God.
      I give you a solution not to be sad in my country, cause this really destroy me.
      Stay in America.

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 3:43:20 AM

      Make this:
      stay in america.

  • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 8:40:33 AM

    "Agony and the Ecstasy
    Italy barely functions. Yet its people are happy. What explains this?"

    That you didnt understand nothing

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 1:22:57 PM

      Why, if my country is in agony (yes, sure) i must be not well with my friends or my family? What? What is this! :)
      If 70% answeres i'm well with friends or family, it dosn't mean that Italians are happy! just a bit ridiculous, yes?
      There is no reason i have to stay not well with family and friends if my country and my life like Italians is in agony, sure. It's banal! Why! :)
      It's a colossal missunderstanding, banal if i think to journalists, not people in the street!
      So the answere to the question ( What explains this), can only be:
      That you didnt understand nothing.
      It's so clear. So banal.

  • Posted By: cosmicstar @ 02/20/2008 2:35:26 PM

    This article fails to mention one modern Italian paradox: despite the family-centric reputation of Italian society the birth rates in Italy are alarmingly low. Italian are on the verge of dying out. Maybe Italian mothers and Catholic church should join hands to make Italians more reproductive.

    • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/23/2008 11:23:54 AM

      Maybe its an economic problem. Genius.

  • Posted By: gionnino @ 02/23/2008 5:33:47 AM

    P.S. re: Sardinia.
    You bet there are less homicides in Sardinia due to "vendetta" than those granted in US prisons, and "universities" by "democracy".

  • Posted By: gionnino @ 02/23/2008 5:25:27 AM

    at least we are not envious...

  • Posted By: gionnino @ 02/23/2008 5:21:46 AM

    At lest we are not envious...

  • Posted By: Press Office Italian Government @ 02/22/2008 9:08:18 AM

    The article ???Agony and ecstasy???, in Newsweek of Feb 25, states that the Prodi Government has ???shelved??? the project to safeguard Venice, promoted by the previous government. This is simply wrong: the current Executive has never thought of leaving Venice sinking into the lagoon.

    The MOSE (the acronym in Italian for Experimental Electro-mechanic Module), referred to by Newsweek as a ???10-year multibillion-euro project???, is a system of movable dams able to insulate Venice from the Adriatic Sea in case of high tide.

    Since in office in May 2006, the Prodi Government has confirmed the decision of carrying on with the MOSE and has allocated almost one billion Euros to it: 463 million in 2007 and 400 million in January 2008. The Government has also given the final go-ahead for the building of the mobile bulkheads, which represent the core of the project.

    Would you consider that project shelved?





    Press Office
    Presidency of the Council of Ministers of Italy

  • Posted By: elisa32 @ 02/17/2008 1:53:03 PM

    Italy...love-hate relationship. A foreigner will always be a foreigner, no matter how hard one tries to integrate. Family is very important and in fact is the only thing that really matters, people complain about the government, but hardly anybody actually votes. People don't pay fines, don't respect traffic lights, pedestrians, they make their own laws and know every single way to scam the government and insurance companies. It there is a law, they already know the way to get around it... at the same they are one of the most loyal people I have ever met, and once they become your friend, they are your friend for life and will do anything to help you in a time a need. They are kind, loyal, but sometimes naive as they think Italy is the best thing that happened to the world, because the goverment censors everything and in a way "brainwashes" the population to think that there is no other country in the world better than them. Italy...love it-hate it.

    • Posted By: evviva70 @ 02/21/2008 11:38:44 AM

      Hi.
      Frankly speaking I am really astonished by these mails, full of prejudices: Italy is beautiful but Italians don't do anything, they are so happy about the current situation, a foreigner will be always a foreigner.
      Listen: I am a 42 years old manager, woman, in an high-tech company (yeeeesss, there are high tech companies in Italy!!!!). Of course I don't like the Italian situation, I don't know who I am going to vote in the next elections, but I am proud to be Italian as a lot of Doctors, Lawyers, Professionals, Engineers, etc. are.
      There is a statement in the paper saying that it would be better to basically erase Italian mothers since they are one of the causes of the problems in Italy. Are we crazy? How do you expect to leave your house when a lot of young and not young (more than 30/35) get a basic salary of 800 Euros/month and in Milan a single bedroom, kitchen, bath, living room (smalll) has to be paid about 800/1000 Euros/month? And you need to eat, dress, maybe buy a book or go, for once, to a movie.
      You say Change. Well, something is moving, people is tired of having thieves in the Parliament, don't doubt of it.
      But we don't want an armed revolution. We are a civil Country and I can tell you that Italians are working like hell for few bucks, much more than other Countries (and I was on the field worldwide to witness it). So don't be so general. It is so easy to judge without providing any constructive hint, just so easy.

      • Posted By: elisa32 @ 02/22/2008 6:18:44 AM

        One thing is to judge, and the other one so different is to state the facts. I am passionate about Italy, I lived there 10 years of my life, not a tourist passing through, not a student. A woman, worker, mom, who saw everyday the problems of living in Italy and the beauty of living in Italy. There are many problems and there could be many solutions, but the ball gets passed around and you know that most politicians with the real power are over 60, Italy needs young minds in all fields with the will to change and most important stand up to the old ways.

  • Posted By: estella @ 02/21/2008 3:37:28 PM

    I wish I were just as optimistic and proud as my my fellow countrymen/women. I'm not! The reason being that Italy seems to have crashed under the weight of globalization. We simply didn't see it coming. So, we didn't plan ahaed, preferring to raise walls between us and the emerging Countries like China and India. We've been so naive to believe that without research we'd carry on being competitive. We have great minds, great researchers who are mistreated and left with no option but virtually flee the country for survival. Creativity is no longer enough, it takes planning and hard working for the common good instead of waisting time protecting each his own little privilege. Sovranational committments are actually setting the agenda and these, in addition to the huge debt, have made national politics weaker and weaker. We are downgrading real fast. One component of the complex Italian scenario is thriving, though, thanks to the heavy absence of the politics: that's the Vatican!!

  • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/21/2008 10:35:07 AM

    To change the country?
    Perhaps to solve our problems. Not to make again many mistakes that we make! Not to change our country.
    We love our thinking.
    If you dont like it, its your soul. You are English. I'm Italian. We are different and i love it.
    Kiss

    • Posted By: elisa32 @ 02/21/2008 11:00:46 AM

      You must admit that this way of thinking is what has gotten Italy where it is now. I am not saying change the laws... ENFORCE them. I am not saying change your food... it's one of the best in the world... I am saying Italians should reflect on what is happening to their country and make their own minds and vote, and be involved in their own communities (not only when there is a "sagra") and complain not only amongst themselves and know who is in power and challenge what they say... and then Italy will change...for the better.

      • Posted By: ItalianoNellAnima @ 02/21/2008 11:26:16 AM

        Believe me.
        I admit all. I love prisons, not only ENFORCING laws! I know, believe me , we are always never a community. I know. It's our problem. This. Not our culture!
        Your mistake is that you see Italy only about food or other folkloristic things. Like all English. You always believe to be the best and that the world is "Folklore" Do you know Italian culture? Our thinking about life? I dont want our thinking about life changes. It's so different from anglo-sassone. And i love it. I know our mistakes and our problems, but i love my country, i love my soul, i love italian thinking and i dont want that it changes. It's not that the problem. Try to understand better Italian culture, not only speacking with someone about coffy, and you will undestand that its not a problem.
        Bye

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