The End of Conservatism

Conservative slogans sound anachronistic in the context of today's problems, like an old TV show from the 1970s.

By Fareed Zakaria | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Feb 25, 2008

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  • Posted By: Conservative Moose @ 02/25/2008 10:57:39 AM

    ok, just some of the errors in this article (part 2) :

    8.) Most workers are insecure about health care, and most corporations are unnerved by its rising costs. - True, but Hillarycare and anything proposed by the Obamassiah certainly is not the answer. I guess most people are to stupid to see that any relief they receive through reduced or eliminated Healthcare premiums will be offset by tax increases to pay for Socialized Medicine.

    9.) Globalization is seen as a threat, bringing fierce competition from dozens of countries. - Competition is a bad thing ?

    10.) The danger of Islamic militancy remains real and lasting, but few Americans believe they understand the phenomenon or know how best to combat it. - The only way to deal with violence is with greater violence, like it or not

    11.) They see our addiction to oil and the degradation of the environment as real dangers to a stable and successful future. - And the Kyoto Treaty and Alternative Energy (most of which are actually more damaging to the environment then oil) are the answers ? How about drilling in ANWR for Oil and the Continental Shelf for Natural Gas ? These two things combined would greatly reduce, if not eliminate, our dependence on foreign oil. Any one who gives an honest evaluation of the situation knows it is not possible to elimate Oil usage.

    12.) Most crucially, Americans' views of the state are shifting. They don't want bigger government-a poll last year found that a majority (57 percent) still believe that government makes it harder for people to get ahead in life-but they do want a smarter government, one that can help them be safe, secure and well prepared for political and economic challenges. - OK, now he's arguing the Republican talking points (Smaller Gov't, Lower taxes)...I'm confused

    13.) In this context, conservative slogans sound weirdly anachronistic, like watching an old TV show from ... well, from the 1970s. - So would he prefer to go back to the 70's under Democrat Carter with Stagflation, Energy Shortages, Hostages, etc...

    14.) several large groups have begun to vote Democratic consistently-women, college-educated professionals, youth and minorities. - begun to vote Democratic ?? these groups have always voted Democratic.

  • Posted By: Conservative Moose @ 02/25/2008 10:56:39 AM

    ok, just some of the errors in this article :

    1.) A majority of Americans regard the Bush tax cuts as "not worth it," - This is because the majority of Americans do not understand economics. Lower taxes stimulate growth, Higher taxes suppress it.

    2.) the number of Americans who believe that military force can reduce the risk of terrorism dropped sharply between 2002 and 2006. - And what is the alternative to military force ? Cut and Run ? Just Ignore the militants and they'll leave us alone ? "Peace" is a noble but unfortunately unrealistic ideal.

    3.) Conservatism grew powerful in the 1970s and 1980s because it proposed solutions appropriate to the problems of the age-a time when socialism was still a serious economic idea. - ???? and what does this guy think Hillarycare is ? If that's not Socialism I don't know what is

    4.) The culture seemed under attack by a radical fringe. - Just like today with MoveOn.org, Code Pink and any of the numerous George Soros funded Left tilting organizations

    5.) It was an age of stagflation and crime at home, as well as defeat and retreat abroad. - Democrats enjoyed it so much in Vietnam they want to do it again in Iraq

    6.) Abroad, the cold war is won and America sits atop an increasingly capitalist world. - This is a bad thing ??

    7.) Today's world has a different set of problems. A robust economy has not lifted the median wages of Americans by much. - Is this guys head up his *** ?? So the standard of living, which is tied to wages, has not improved since the 70's ?

  • Posted By: borass @ 02/20/2008 5:31:33 PM

    If Obama becomes the Democratic nominee, there is a very good chance that Asian-Americans will cross over to the Republican side and states like California may be lost. Unlike how the media has tried to paint Obama as a race-neutral candidate, Asian-Americans clearly see him running as a black candidate who is not economically conservative. Two big reasons why this neglected demographic may cost Dems 2008.

    • Posted By: mythoughs @ 02/22/2008 2:58:05 PM

      I see him running as a black candidate " People this is our time" , do the math.

    • Posted By: Cooltruth @ 02/21/2008 4:55:35 AM

      McCain would be more expensive than Obama! McCain is a NEOCON Republican instead of being a conservative type Republican. He would blow more money on wars than Democrats would blow on the social programs they're famous for. They should vote for Ron Paul for an economic conservative as every other candidate would be another big spender. Why vote for continuing an expensive war? It's not making us any safer to continue the war in Iraq. That war is more expensive than any Democrat social spending foolishness.

  • Posted By: Akagi @ 02/22/2008 1:17:52 PM

    Asian-Americans didn't turn away from the GOP over immigration. The immigration deal would have hurt Asian-Americans. Most Asian Americans are legal immigrants--hard to walk from Taipei or Tokyo. The deal would have eliminated the ability to sponsor brothers and sisters and drastically cut the numbers of adult parents allowed in. They turned away from the GOP for the same reason the white majority did. Also, being such a small percentage of the population, their numbers hardly matter outside of Hawai'i. Most Asians (Japanese, Filipinos, etc) historically supported the Democratic Party in any event and thus has no connection with the immigration debate.

  • Posted By: dskaugrud @ 02/22/2008 8:11:51 AM

    This author is obviously a conservative himself, otherwise he would know that socialism is alive and well in most industrialized countries. I am Norweigan and have seen how well an organized and funded socialist government can work FOR ALL CITIZENS! What we have here in America is legalized / sanctioned public stealing and the elevation of selfishness and greed to the level of religion... and it is WRONG!

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/22/2008 11:03:31 AM

      Don't forget the lowering of religion to selfishness and greed.

      Unfortunately, the cold-war era fear of anything "pink" runs so deep in this country that all anyone here seems to see when they look at countries like Norway is do-nothing layabouts sponging off the goodwill of society. If I had a way in mind to change it, I'd say it now.

      <crickets>

  • Posted By: Liberal Mom @ 02/22/2008 4:49:10 AM

    Today, as Frum writes, "after three decades of tax cutting, most Americans no longer pay very much income tax."

    Most Americans except the working poor. My kid works two jobs and goes to college and every time she makes any overtime, hoping to have a substantial pay check, the government takes most of it in taxes. Yet, she can't go see a doctor when she gets ill... why? The cost of health insurance at her full-time job...that's why. She can't afford to get insurance. How could she? She works her butt off and gets no where. Taxes take her money and what does she get for it. Nothing.. we can't get affordable housing because we make too much money!! But we can barely pay the expensive market rate rents. It's unreal... It's no wonder that working people are tired of cons. It's all been a con game and the working people have been the patsy - the mark. Single workers like my daughter and myself (before I became ill and disabled) have always had to pay more so that married couples could pay less.. How is that fair. The government gives breaks to the wealthy and corporations while the middle and the working poor suffer, especially single workers. Not fair. Then on top of that when you need help, there isn't any because the cons cut programs that help the poor and working poor! It really burns me that the cons voted AGAINST increasing the minimum wage!. It was a little something even though it still didn't equate to a living wage! Un-flaming believable!
    No one cares what happens to the poor/working poor. We're expendable.. we can be thrown away like garbage.
    The Frum statement I quoted above was great joke akin to Reagan's theory of "trickle down economics". I'm still waiting for it to trickle down. The trickle still hasn't arrived for those who actually do the grunt work. Cons, they are sooo funny, funny, funny.
    I hope conservatism is dead, bury it and never let it live again.

  • Posted By: BobSupplies @ 02/21/2008 4:37:22 PM

    We talk about Liberal and Conservatism, Democrat and Republican, but where is America? We have a country unique in it's development. the only place in the world were people can exist and become everything they're capable of becoming. A place where we are ejected from the womb as equals and can struggle to become more; up to and beyond that of our predessors. During most of my lifetime, we had a decidor-making difference between our 2 political parties. We "The Democrats" believed that we elect someone who will listen to us and do what we tell them to do. While "The Republicans" believed that they elect someone who will do their bidding without having to be told what to do.... Today, it seems that I'm the last surviving Democrat. My party has become one that does what it wants, to equalize everyone, back to the womb... It's a party that encompasses the beliefs of Canada, not America... and the masses of course see this as a good thing. But what becomes of the world when America is gone? What happens to the Michael J Foxes, the William Shatners, the Jillian Barbaries, the Arnold Swartzeneggers... all the great Americans that were not born here... Where will they go to utilize their greatnesses and enjoy the rewards? Only in America is it OK to be poor, or Middle Class, or Wealthy, or anywhere in between... if we continue to support Socialists in our political arena America will cease to exist... The only good news is; I'm old enough that I won't be around to see it, but the thought of an America encompassed by mediocraty still sickens me... Thanks Bill and soon, your wife...

    • Posted By: kirktc_487 @ 02/21/2008 11:32:12 PM

      Hey, I have kids and grandkids that I borrowed this land from, I do care what kind of leadership governs them. This is their world we're living in, and I want to see them with someone like me to lookout for them and all our children. Teaching them the values that we are all equal, and that learning from us does not mean making the same mistakes, but learning from those mistakes, and trying to come up with a better way of fixing them, then we have.

  • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 5:47:53 PM

    Dave in NM "It's the conservatives who have declared war on women and homosexuals, the poor, teachers, scientists and non-Christians (oh - right - you don't consider any of those your "countrymen," do you?). "

    I've never been to New Mexico, but where I'm from there is no single group more ridiculed and attacked than the conservative white male. And for the record, social conervatives have declared war on what they see as; murder of innocent unborn babies(if abortion was what you were referring to) not women, against what they see as an immoral and preverse practice, homesexuality not Homosexuals themselves, against poverty not the poor, against left-wing indocrination in academia, not teachers, (not sure what you mean about scientists), and finally against those who persecute and judge peope simply because they are openly Christian. In fact many Christians would identify closer with Muslims or Jews (people of the book) than with the average left-wing Christian-bashing American.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:04:54 PM

      Lest I be accused of letting some of your screed go unanswered: against teachers teaching evolution, and heck - No Child Not Left Behind is just one giant attack on teachers. Scientists? How about evolution? Stem cells? The Big Bang? Pretending the noisiest strain of "Christians" is not anti-science is disingenuous in the extreme.

      • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 6:28:26 PM

        Against teachers ONLY teaching evolution(my university biology teacher, after an hour, admitted that there is as much 'PROOF' for evolution as there is for Adam and Eve), and I fail to see how requiring teachers(like the rest of the working world) to produce results is an attack, and as for evolution and The Big Bang, you should read a book titled The Language of God, written by the former HEAD of the Human Genome Project

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:36:44 PM

          Once a competing theory is propounded, that has as much 'EVIDENCE' as there is for evolution, I'll be the first to agree it should be taught in schools. As for the works of the FORMER (or is that not the part you capitalized?) head of the HGP, well, I'll read it as time permits. I will say, though, the same thing - other scientific theories that are equally credible as the Big Bang should be taught. Adam and Eve? Sure - in Sunday school.

          • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 6:46:42 PM

            Its a good book, you should read it. By your own definition, evolution= 0 proof, creation/ID= 0 proof, all I am saying is that evolution should not be force fed as the only answer(which occurs when young children are taught micro-evolution in public schools, and nothing else is mentioned, even though macro-evolution is becoming a more plausible theory)

            • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:50:43 PM

              You misstate my "own definition" - I said that any theory with enough 'EVIDENCE' as evolution should be taught (emphasis in original). Evolution = tons of evidence. Creationism = 0 evidence. FTFY.

              • Posted By: Cooltruth @ 02/21/2008 4:36:32 AM

                Evolution is everybit as much hogwash as Creationism, yet they teach this propaganda like it's a proven fact. They should teach it as a theory if they're going to insist on teaching it. Specifically, teaching that one species 'evolved' from a different species is false teaching. Like produces like (anybody raised on a farm knows this without having to attend school to learn it) Two apes won't produce a human baby anymore than two sheep will produce a baby goat.

                • Posted By: Evnev8 @ 02/21/2008 5:18:00 PM

                  In the same light of two apes not being able to make a human baby, flesh doesn't just pop out of the dirt either. If two species cannot branch from one source we would all be one celled amoeba right now. A theory that the planet formed and all life sprouted up as is has no place in a science class. If it did then you should also include the creation story of other religions as well, not just Christianity...

                • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 10:41:41 AM

                  Interestingly, your post is full of conclusory certitude, and suspiciously light on sources. There is massive evidence of evolution, which is universally accepted by the peer-reviewed scientific community. You admit that creationism is bunk - so what's your explanation for it all (and where are your peer-reviewed scientific sources)?

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:11:41 PM

        Oh - and "against poverty, not the poor?" Come off it - conservatives view poverty as a character flaw, and any sort of taxation for assistance as "stealing." They're not even in favor of keeping jobs in this country - they profit most handsomely off of poverty. Your story doesn't hold together.

    • Posted By: ceriman @ 02/20/2008 7:04:44 PM

      Saying you are "against homosexuality, not homosexuals" is like someone saying they are against christianity, not Christians. You cannot really separate the behavior from the person. Now, I don't object to you saying "It's a sin, and you shoudln't do that", but I do object to you trying to deny rights to jobs, housing, and to marry the person of my choice, all on the basis of percieved "sin". I've noted that other "sins" don't bring the same persecutions from the fundamentalists.
      Ironic that Christians like to consider themselves "persecuted" ,based solely on others opposing Christian persecution of "sinners". When have Christians ever been denied the right to marry or hold a job? Even the American Athiests never proposed banning Christian marriage, yet fundamentalists are loudly opposed to gay marriage.

      • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 8:33:49 PM

        I disagree, many people are against the principles and morals of Christianity, but not against Chrisitans themselves, As to denying jobs and other rights, that is the sphere of the government and therefore should not be based on any Christian ideals. But I do disagree with your take on Christian persecution, Christians have a long history of being denied rights, including the right to life(Rome, present-day Africa).

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 10:38:27 AM

          Christians have just as great a history (greater, in fact) of denying the rights of others (the Crusades, American Indians, shall I go on?). I think you also misstate the position of many people - I, for one, am not "against the principles and morals of Christianity," I'm just against the idea of those tenets being enacted into law, or taught my children in school. The vast majority of liberals (and moderates, for that matter) are all in favor of freedom of religion, meaning your freedom to practice your religion as you choose. All we ask is that you grant us the same right, to live and let live, which, as a group, you generally refuse.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:01:05 PM

      What you fail to understand is that, to the extent to which conservative white males have come under attack, it's a *counter-attack* based on wars THEY started. Why can't conservatives live their lives as they see fit, and leave everyone else to do the same? I've had homosexual neighbors - they didn't hit on me, or affect me at all. In fact, they kept great care of their house. You think they're an "abomination," so be it. Spew your groundless hate all you want, but understand that no one "judges people because they are openly Christian" - they point out when those who are *intrusively* Christian try to foist their worldview on others. If your proselytizing religion isn't taking over the world on its own merits, it's because the world doesn't want it, whether at the point of a satellite dish or a gun. My mom is a Christian - no one "bashes" her, because she minds her own business. Why is it that the rest of you just can't seem to do the same?

      • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 6:18:26 PM

        Conservatives(at least the ones I associate with) do not hate anybody, I have homosexual friends and consider myself very socially conservative. I don't care what people do in their houses either. Conservatives by nature are not a very vocal group, but when universities and highschools begin to REQUIRE Homosexual education, and when Homosexual couples sue for the RIGHT to marry in Christian Churches, and when the media and academia constantly bombard us with this message that our opionions are backward-looking and unfit for modern society, secular society *intrusively* enters our lives.

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:34:33 PM

          I do agree that churches should not be required to marry homosexual couples. Of course they shouldn't be tax-free, either, but that's a whole 'nuther subject...

          "Homosexual education?" Is that a class in-and-of itself? Nah - too narrow, and shouldn't be done. Now if you're saying sex education shouldn't mention homosexuality, that's different.

      • Posted By: peter.hayden @ 02/20/2008 6:25:49 PM

        Dave, you're definately lugging around some baggage. You seem to be reciprocating the hate your railing against. You see, there is balance. Switching from conservative to ranting liberal has helped balance the scales.

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:32:43 PM

          Heheh - attack people, then when they point out you're attacking them, say "ohhh, there's definitely something wrong with you, starting fights like that." I remember thinking that was a brilliant innovation when I encountered it on the playground in about the 4th grade.

    • Posted By: peter.hayden @ 02/20/2008 6:11:04 PM

      That's quite a bigoted statement.
      You insinuate that all conservatives feel or think a certain way. You people are so confused. A person might think they are a liberal until they disagree with another more liberal liberal and thus they become a conservative.

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 6:21:35 PM

        Read in the context of my other statements here (including the one that I'm a former Republican), it's clear I'm referring to modern, social-conservative neocons, not "true" conservatives virtually everyone here agrees are virtually absent from government in this country. Nice little ham-handed jab about "you people," though. A page from the Ross Perot playbook, perchance?

      • Posted By: peter.hayden @ 02/20/2008 6:15:37 PM

        P.S. My comment is directed at Dave in NM.

  • Posted By: Joe in PS @ 02/21/2008 3:45:45 PM

    Certain right-wing ideologies will remain so long there is money (Mellons, Scaifes, etc.) to back them. I only hope that more people will come to understand how sick and hostile to society the are, and that their mouthpieces in the media are nothing more than bad comedy.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 4:01:37 PM

      True, but that won't happen any time soon, because they finally figured out how to get the support of average Americans: co-opt those citizens' religious fears and prejudices, and promise the persecution of certain hated groups in exchange for votes that entrench the favor-the-rich policies these people have always sought. As long as people vote their religions instead of their real-world interests, modern conservatism is here to stay.

  • Posted By: mawhit @ 02/20/2008 6:58:36 PM

    gsb12 conveniently states (in screaming CAPS) "Universities and highschools [sic] begin to REQUIRE homosexual education" and "homosexual couples sue for the RIGHTto marry in Christian Churches" while citing no examples. I'm sure his bevy of "homosexual friends" would find his comments repugnant. Many homosexuals now have their unions blessed in "Christian"churches...just not his (read:the right kind of) church. Marrige and it's benefits flow from the government (marriage licensing), NOT from the church. Conservatism will continue dying as long as it's proponents (like gsb12) don't understand that its' social positions make it completely irrelevant in the 21st century.

    • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 9:05:32 PM

      In many universitie(including the one I attended, its required for a Bachelor of Arts degree 4 credits in a gay& lesbian studies class). As far as rights stemming from the government not the Church, I totally agree, just dont asks Christians to condone it in their house of worship. For some people, social positions stem from moral convictions, and their opinions are not swayed because morality is no longer agreeable or 'relevant'.

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 10:31:12 AM

        I agree that churches should not be forced to marry gays. But their members should also live and let live, and not oppose civil gay marriage in society, where it does them (not to mention "marriage") no harm.

        • Posted By: Joe in PS @ 02/21/2008 3:48:52 PM

          Well- said. Thank you, Dave.

  • Posted By: rolandhosch @ 02/21/2008 2:31:16 PM

    The sad truth about the Republican party is that it had its perfect candidate in Mitt Romney. Had he not been Mormon he would have skyrocketed to the top early on. Sad that the party that stood for religious freedoms and love of God turned it's back on one of its own. In the end predudice fed by the likes of Huckabee and Baptist ministers spreading their hate polarized ignorant voters - which unfortunately there are a lot of. So many so that they stick to Huckabee like he's a prophet even though anyone who looks into his background knows he is a liar (he said he graduated from college when he didn't), cheater (stole furniture from governer's mansion) (got 80,000 dollars in gifts by signing up for wedding registry after his term as governer - it was the loop hole in the gifts to outgoing governer)and bigot (outspoked hater of mormons). How can the party survive when it needs votes from these types of people to win A PRIMARY?!

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 3:12:14 PM

      Since when have the Reagan-and-later Republicans had any interest in freedom of religion? OH - freedom of THEIR religion. Gotcha.

  • Posted By: Gadfly @ 02/21/2008 1:19:50 PM

    Forget about the war. The real issue here is that the government has spun offf into some sort of "1984" nightmare with all the trimmings of "Big Daddy". Whose fault? Everybody's. The architecture of Seperation of powers has been forgotten. The Executive Branch now makes executive orders "laws" , the Judicial Branch makes laws rather than testing laws, and the House of Represtatives and the Senate sit idley by and let the Constitution crumble before our eyes. And the people sleep. Go figure.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 1:44:43 PM

      All more-or-less beyond serious argument. The larger question (and judging by your handle, perhaps I'm posing this question to the wrong person), is: what can be done about it?

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 02/21/2008 3:02:05 PM

        Gadfly & Dave:
        The people need to wakeup. The Legislators and the President are the only elected officials in the US government. The Judges are selected by the President and confirmed by Congress. Congress does have impeachment right on both the President and Supreme Court. The people need to demand that Congress does the work set forth by the constitution. By the way they are the only ones that can establish tribunals.

        It is the grassroots thing, baby! One person at a time - education in schools and community service.

  • Posted By: Gadfly @ 02/21/2008 1:06:50 PM

    A larger problem for the Republicans is the fact that their side of the aisle blatantly gave over theri powers to the executive branch via the sitting President, whose insatiable appetite for "executive orders" has effectively made this a lopsided trinity with vast powers in the Executive Branch and the Jucicial Branch, both of which run rampanlly over the House of Representatives and the Senate. The American people have only done what they were supposed to do . they have adjusted to the new political ideologies which have been carefully spoon fed to a sleeping populace.

  • Posted By: Dr. Dave @ 02/20/2008 6:07:00 PM

    I always thought Conservative meant to use as sparingly as possible. If runaway govt growth, spending, civil rights infringement are what's considered conservative now , I feel we need to rethink the definition.
    What is stated as Conservative and what is practiced are two entirely different things. True conservatives believe in the Constitution. True conservatives believe that American citizens have rights that should not be infringed upon. Most of our representation in Washington fails the test of true conservatism, from most of the congress all the way up to the president. Mr McCain is not a conservative, he does not care about the citizens of this country or their rights as described by our Constitution. He believes in one thing, His friends the lobbyists. The very people that pay him off to sell American citizen's freedoms away .
    If you think we have problems now, just wait. This phony conservative has just begun to sell this country out.
    There are very few true conservatives in the "Conservative Party" only one is running for president. However the "nonconservative conservatives" have dictated to the media that this candidate is to be ignored. He is to remain hidden from public view at all costs. That candidate is Ron Paul. One of the only people in congress that told our government that they shouldn't be selling weapons to Osama BinLaden, or Saddam Hussien.
    This was years before the tragedies of 9/11 occurred. We sold the Afgans, and the Iraqis the weapons that they are now killing our soldiers with. Mr McCain cannot deny he had a helping hand in those transactions, and he has no qualms with throwing more soldiers lives away. So much for being conservative. We should
    dissolve the govt as it is right now and start anew. Ordinary citizens should be in congress, and the senate.
    Term limits should apply, and lobbyists should be hunted down and jailed. Most Americans understand
    what America is about. Very few politicians do. Politicians understand two things. Money and power.
    Those who have it rule. Everyone else pays the price.
    True Conservatism is dead, the phony conservatives like McCain killed it.

    • Posted By: OBWan @ 02/21/2008 12:40:21 PM

      Dr. Dave, please read the Federalist Papers.

  • Posted By: paleothomist @ 02/21/2008 11:02:18 AM

    Everything done by someone who is called a Christian is not necessarily a Christian act. And the Crusades had nothing to do with denying the rights of others. they were a war of self defense against aggression by Muslim forces.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 11:28:27 AM

      Riiight. Just like the war in Iraq is a war of self-defense against aggression by Muslim forces?

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 02/21/2008 12:31:48 PM

        The "Iraq War" is an occupation and the use of US forces to install a government to replace the one that we overthrew. Perhaps we should do the same in Darfur. Oh! Iraq is now our number 5 importer of oil - think about it.

  • Posted By: paleothomist @ 02/21/2008 11:02:33 AM

    Everything done by someone who is called a Christian is not necessarily a Christian act. And the Crusades had nothing to do with denying the rights of others. they were a war of self defense against aggression by Muslim forces.

  • Posted By: gsb12 @ 02/20/2008 5:07:54 PM

    Edmund Burke, a political theorist writing at the time of the French revolution, watched the liberal French Revolution "destroy the good with the bad". The modern conservative functions as an anchor, attempting to keep the left grounded in reality, so that rampant 'progress' doesnt destroy the good with the bad.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/20/2008 5:20:55 PM

      Is there a particular kind of "progress" you fear as "bad?" Just curious what it is you think we need an "anchor" lest we drift into. Peace? Prosperity? Tolerance? Equality? Or are you one of those cold-war holdouts still afraid of "Communists?"

      • Posted By: Cooltruth @ 02/21/2008 5:01:28 AM

        Haven't you heard? They've now replaced "Communists" with "Terrorists" to continue with their neocon fear mongering

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 02/21/2008 10:45:31 AM

          Even less convincing. Social programs at least have aspects of socialism (albeit not communism), while NO liberal thinks we should not fight terror. Repugs have to make up lies like "Obama wants to abandon the war on terror" because the truth (Obama would actually RESTART the war on terror) gets them nowhere.

  • Posted By: CaptainCrunch @ 02/21/2008 8:59:11 AM

    McCain, "100 years of war" a NEW thinker? Is that your idea of a joke? He still thinks we should be in Vietnam...and is willing to sacrifice his oldest son for the biggest lie ever told (Iraq) I am not willing to sacrifice mine.

  • Posted By: Mans64 @ 02/19/2008 2:51:01 AM

    Ron paul is right. Conservative values are not what the Republican Party is operating on now. The RP now is failed because RP was hijacked by zionist's agenda, launched and supervised by zinoists politician like Libby, Wolfowitz, cs. Their target is A WAR for zionists interest, not American interest.

    • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 7:29:37 AM

      It has been claimed that Ron Paul is a closet antisemite and neo-Nazi.. These claims are based on a newsletter published by Paul, though he denies it. But Mans64 is making a good case for this.

      • Posted By: Cooltruth @ 02/21/2008 5:27:01 AM

        Check the neocon agenda for their "closet anti-semitic and neo-Nazi" character attacks against Ron Paul! They want to continue their war on Iraq indefinately. Ron Paul is intelligent enough to know better than to do keep on with this war! That's why the neocons slander him. He isn't "anti-semitic" or "racist" just has a more economical plan to run the country besides running our economy into the ground fighting with Iraqi people... Neocons like Israel better than they like the USA. They should go to Israel to run for office...

  • Posted By: 15R8 @ 02/20/2008 4:51:57 PM

    I statred to call myself a conservative.but alass I am 100% clinton
    I feel without doing as Christ would do in all areas you are not a conservative for it is much more conservative to keep jobs in america than to decimate the middle class
    it is much more conservative to never let illegals in than it is to give them a drivers licence
    it is much you get the point: Bushes radical departure from what is right and just for america has its foundations somewhere else not under the mantle of Chrisrian compassion.Therefore it is not conservative

    • Posted By: ceriman @ 02/20/2008 6:41:33 PM

      What? You think it is "Christian compassion" to keep out the poor foreigners who are desperate to provide for themselves and their families? Would Jesus lock the gate against the downtrodden? While the Bush positiion on illegal immigration was more to benefit the wealthy agribusinesses, he at least had a scintilla of compassion for the poor. You seem to have none at all.

      • Posted By: Cooltruth @ 02/21/2008 5:09:00 AM

        How about some of that "compassion" for poor Americans who have been displaced by exporting the manufacturing jobs while umpteen zillion "poor foreigners" swarm in to grab whatever few jobs are left? There aren't enough jobs left in the country to take in unlimited foreigners when there are too many unemployed people here who aren't even counted anymore.

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