The End of Conservatism

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  • Posted By: Disintegration @ 02/20/2008 4:35:24 PM

    There's a lot of truth to what Mr. Zakaria says, but I think he overlooks the reason. Conservatism is born of many principles but at heart it is really defined by what it is against: for the last 100 years or so, conservatism has meant a rejection of the false promises of radicalism (which since 1968 has been the mainstream on the left).

    Mr. Zakaria takes us that far and correctly observes that conservatism is still defining itself against the same mostly-discredited policies it opposed in 1980, and that those policies are no longer widely applicable in the 21st century. The part he omits, though, is that the Democratic Party is still correspondingly defined by support for those same tired old policies and principles. Barack Obama is a perfect example - behind all the optimistic "change" rhetoric his policies are essentially unreconstructed New Deal ones: a bigger government with more control over citizens' lives, higher taxes, wealth confiscation and redistribution, and a dangerous combination of internationalism and neglecting defense. If he has a single novel idea, one that Ted Kennedy hadn't anticipated in 1976, I've yet to hear it.

    These ideas may be that much more out of date, but they're no less dangerous today than they were in 1956 or 1976, and as long as the same old New Left is peddling them, principled conservative opposition will be necessary.

  • Posted By: _Drew_ @ 02/20/2008 4:18:23 PM

    lillea, that's an extreme statement. I don't think love of family, love of country, or love of God are conservative-only values. Democrats and liberals are not loveless, lawless, God-haters (contrary to popular belief).

  • Posted By: atenas @ 02/20/2008 10:31:51 AM

    All I have to say is that Conservatives need to stop being so narrow minded. They revere Ronald Reagan and want everyone to be like him. There will never be another Ronald Reagan, and the Conservatives don't want to admit this. What they need to realize is that Reagan was president over 20 years ago! Consider how much the world has changed since then. They need to stop living in the past.

    • Posted By: lillea @ 02/20/2008 4:14:09 PM

      So, progressive is to forget our great American heros and move on? It's part of our heritage, we need to remember those of our nation who have done great things. We can also learn from them. Granted, we do need to come up with new ideas. And we have. The achievements that the US has made in the last 20 years is temendous. We have a wonderful country and we need to be reminded that some very great people have brought us this far. Thank God for all of them.

  • Posted By: lillea @ 02/20/2008 4:02:24 PM

    So love of family, love of country and love of God are anachronistic? They are principles.

  • Posted By: peter.hayden @ 02/20/2008 3:46:11 PM

    Without conservatism, there would be no balance. Too much "moving forward" would drive us off a cliff. Thank God for the old schoolers who ground us and the progressives who keep us moving forward. People, we have to have balance so thank the other person for their point of view.

    • Posted By: _Drew_ @ 02/20/2008 3:58:53 PM

      I actually never thought about it like that. . . .
      But now that you mention, I don't think we've found that balance yet. But thanks for giving me a new perspective.

  • Posted By: TCinLA @ 02/20/2008 3:37:46 PM

    Could you please provide ONE example of how Senator Rampstrike has anything new to say about anything? The truth is, he's as out of gas and ideas as any other fact-challenged "conservative". Actually, even moreso than most of the droolers.

  • Posted By: TCinLA @ 02/20/2008 3:36:08 PM

    Could you please point to ONE example of this "new thinking" you mention? Other than being for MORE WAR, Senator Rampstrike seems to have even less "new thinking" than the usual fact-challenged "conservative".

  • Posted By: _Drew_ @ 02/20/2008 12:42:43 PM

    Atenas, I agree that conservatives need to stop living in the past. It seems that a lot of them are afraid of moving forward, afraid of progress. We should all learn from the mistakes of the conservatives in the past, like those against women's suffrage and those that supported racial segregation. Many conservatives cloaked these beliefs as 'traditional' values. This is nothing more than being stubborn and closed-minded.
    But I have to disagree with one point: there may yet be another Ronald Reagan in our future.

  • Posted By: JB619 @ 02/19/2008 4:07:16 AM

    To Mans64 - you are so correct!!! Why not just come out and say it... it's all the Jews fault right? Wow, being a Jew I wish you were right. I mean we DO control the world. Hmmmm, we control everything that you have a problem with right? I mean if you were to go and get drunk and get into an accident than it was some Jews fault right? I mean afterall we CONTROL everything. Scary thought that you let less than 1% of the population of the world control YOU!! Now lets see, when did I get my last deposit from the evil Zionists??? Hmm last time I checked they didn't help me out any.

    Geez give me a break. Some people in this country seriously need help. Oh by the way, this is written from a U.S. Army Disabled Veteran who happens to be of the JEWISH faith.

    • Posted By: _Drew_ @ 02/19/2008 12:57:53 PM

      I think it should be noted that Mans64 didn't once mention Judaism. It's important to differentiate between a person of Jewish faith and a "Zionist", which is POLITICAL in nature. This is a common mistake that the majority of the world makes. As an example, you'll notice that Iranian president Ahmadinejad never really says any antisemitic remarks, only anti-zionist (anti-Israel) remarks. In fact, there is a decently-sized population of Jews in Iran, believe it or not, who are allowed to practice their beliefs (as are the Zorastrians and the Christians and the Sunni minority).

      Something to keep in mind.

      • Posted By: JB619 @ 02/20/2008 10:09:34 AM

        To Drew - Zionism is the Jewish national movement of rebirth and renewal in the land of Israel - the historical birthplace of the Jewish people. The yearning to return to Zion, the biblical term for both the Land of Israel and Jerusalem, has been the cornerstone of Jewish religious life since the Jewish exile from the land two thousand years ago, and is embedded in Jewish prayer, ritual, literature and culture.

        I do see your point and many Zionists can be non-Jews however Ron Paul does not distinguish between the two however I must disagree with you on Ahmadinejad. He believes the holocaust never happened, is a racist and anti-semite and calls for the destruction of Israel. If that is not anti-semetic then what is?

        • Posted By: _Drew_ @ 02/20/2008 11:38:47 AM

          JB619, good point. You are totally correct. While Zionism may be a cornerstone of the Jewish faith, I only mention that it's important to differentiate between Judaism and Zionism. To say "anti-Zionist" is not completely the same as saying "anti-Jew", although there are definitely similar underlying feelings. Everyone should be aware of that. I also agree with you that Ron Paul does not distinguish between the two.
          And to set the record straight, I never said that Ahmadinejad is not an anti-Semite. On the contrary, I think he's a homophobic, racist anti-Semite who is living in a fantasy world. But calling for the destruction of Israel (which I do not agree with) is not the same as calling for the destruction of all Jews (which I also do not agree with).
          Great dialogue!

  • Posted By: newsnose @ 02/20/2008 8:04:50 AM

    I would expect that an article like this would draw out the fringe dems who hate everything Bush and whose idealism blocks reality. I especially like the idea in this article that "most Americans no longer pay very much income tax". Compared to what? I pay over 40% income tax with 38% going to the feds. I work like a dog for what I earn and invest in the economy daily but the idealogues think that guys like me are evil and need to be punished for my success.

    Both Dem candidates and the children who have responded on this forum will find that there is nothing behind the idealism that is espoused by Obama. He is the next Jimmy Carter and american voters are smart enough to see that.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 02/20/2008 2:14:25 AM

    OBAMA WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
    McCAIN is continuing BUSH'S POLICIES. WHAT GOES UP MUST COME DOWN.
    THE REPUBLICANS and JEB BUSH WILL HAVE THEIR CHANCE in FOUR YEARS.

    REMEMBER THE REPUBLICANS HAD CONTROL OF ALL THREE BRANCHES and DID NOTHING.

    THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT THE HOUSE. NANCY PELOSI HAS the LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS in HISTORY. ONLY OBAMA CAN SAVE THE DEMOCRATIC RULE IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

    EVERY STATISTIC AND POLL HAVE Unaminously INDICATED THAT OBAMA WOULD DEFEAT McCAIN NATIONALLy THIS IS THE REASON OBAMA WILL BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. THESE ARE THE FACTS.

    McCain WILL BE DEFEATED IN A LAND SLIDE BY OBAMA in A NATIONAL ELECTION.
    THE ECONOMY AND THE WAR are AGAINST McCAIN. HIS ONLY SOLUTION IS TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO"FOR A HUNDRED YEARS". WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THIS. NOT ME, PERHAPS HOLY ROLLER CAN FUND THIS HUNDRED YEAR AGENDA McCAIN HAS READY FOR ALL TAX PAYING AMERICANS.

    HE WANTS TO KEEP THE BUSH TAX CUT'S INTACT. AS KARL ROVE MENTIONED IN HIS MOST RECENT ARTICLE IN NEWS WEEK, the REGAN ERA IS OVER. SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS IS NOT THE ANSWER.

    THE MIDDLE CLASS WILL HAVE TO SUFFER UNDER McCAIN.
    HE BELIEVES THIS AMERICAN SUFFERING IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO CARRY OUT A MISGUIDED FOREIGN POLICY WHICH IS BASED ON FEAR AND NOT REALITY. IN FACT McCAIN'S AGENDA IS BADLY OUTDATED AND VERY UNPOPULAR AMONG MANY CONSERVATIVES IN HIS OWN PARTY, manY oF WHOM WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA OR STAY HOME IN NOVEMBER.

    REMEMBER THE PROBLEMS IN IRAQ AND PALESTINE AND THE REST OF THAT REGION ARE
    POLITICAL in NATURE. McCAIN is a great MILITARY MAN. BUT HIS EXPERTISE WAS NEEDED in TWO THOUSAND TWO, not now. WE NEED CHANGE. AND OBAMA WILL BE ABLE TO UNITE FACTIONA IN ORDER TO BRING STABILITY TO THAT REGION.

    I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO OBAMA APPOINTING McCAIN TO BE THE NEXT HEAD OF HOMELAND SECURTIY.

    McCAIN's VIABILITY TO BECOME PRESIDENT EXPIRED FOUR YEARS AGO.

  • Posted By: burbank @ 02/19/2008 9:40:45 PM

    You cannot cut taxes and increase spending and expect to ballance the budget. Just as you cannot fight a war leaner,meaner, faster,stronger, and expect to win if you don't have the "boots on the ground" to get the job done right the first time. But when your Donald Rumsfeld experience doesn't matter...just theory. The President can propose, but it's congress that disposes. When grown men fight and whine and act like like children over policy issues, then the fate of a nation hangs in the ballance and the consevative voice is silenced, suffocated by it's own greed and avarice.

  • Posted By: Fernanda FCH @ 02/18/2008 12:41:12 PM

    This is an interesting column by someone whom I respect. Fareed and I met a few years ago in Davos when we were being honored as ???global leaders of tomorrow.??? Much of what is written here I can relate to, if not agree with. It is undeniably true that conservatism is suffering from a sort of fatigue, and it would be nice to find ???new blood??? among its leaders. Frank Rich???s column depicting the GOP as a ???white??? party is exaggerated but still contains kernels of truth.

    As a young conservative Latina, this is difficult for me to admit, but the first step to regaining sanity is to end all denial. While the governing maxims of our philosophy ??? low taxes, smaller government, economic competition, free trade, anti-terrorism ??? still remain valid, it is nonetheless true that we have done a poor job of communicating them in recent years. Some of the blame for this falls at the feet of George W. Bush, but it???s all to easy to blame one man when so many of us are equally at fault. Another refrain I continually hear is how the ???media??? is so against us we cannot get our message out. This is less true today than in the past with the presence of Fox News and talk radio, and of course Internet blogging, but even so, our movement is in sore need of a makeover.

    Some have said (myself among them) that if we elect Democrats this year, it is only a matter of time before they fall on their faces because the ideas they bring to the table are old-hat and proven failures. Additionally, their naiveté is on full display when dealing with fanatical Muslim organizations such as Al Qaeda, and as such, they would leave us as sitting ducks for the next attack, wherever or whenever it comes.

    While this all may be the case, if we do not offer compelling alternatives, it will be difficult to combat the skilled oratory of an Obama (increasingly looking like the next President), particularly if he turns out to be more skilled at governing than we suspect now. Much will depend on the type of advice he gets, and his willingness to adjust his course when things go wrong.

    • Posted By: ne1home @ 02/19/2008 9:51:27 AM

      Yours is the first rational, insightful, articulate posting on this website. WELL DONE!!

      • Posted By: Fernanda FCH @ 02/19/2008 6:58:31 PM

        Thank you. I don't usually have much time for this but I found it interesting, and somewhat exhillerating to state my views in detail.

  • Posted By: doctorfixit @ 02/18/2008 8:20:58 PM

    I don't think that people have given up on the idea of freedom, and I don't think Americans are ready for the kind of liberal-fascist totalitarianism represented by The Democrat candidates. Conservative libertarianism is what distinguishes America and Australia from the less-free socialist countries of Europe. The Lib-fascists should hold off on the victory party for a bit. It might be too early to celebrate, unless you are thinking of a wake.

    • Posted By: acommuterinla @ 02/19/2008 5:50:15 PM

      Rush is that you--a true "ditto head" i see

    • Posted By: howdy @ 02/19/2008 2:18:49 AM

      Liberals as fascits lol. Conservatism is much closer to fascism than liberalism is. Fascists are for a strong military, a disregard for the law, and utter contempt for the international order as their country is exceptional in some way. Bush has increased military spending to astronomical levels, illegally wiretapped and tortured people. Bush also invaded another country for no good reason. Hitler would see Bush as a man he could do business with.

  • Posted By: Hayekian @ 02/18/2008 5:29:14 PM

    Zakaria is always interesting and I frequently agree with him. Political parties and movements do exhaust themselves for various reasons, usually because their ideas "play themselves out" or because their original coalitions break up. This happened to the Democrats in the 1970s as the New Deal coalition began to dissolve, and it is happening to some extent now to the Republicans.

    However, certain principles are timeless. To me, the salient and indisputable fact is that in terms of the broad philosophical principles upon which all other political decisions are based, the Right has decisively won the battle of ideas, and the Left has lost. This is not a "swing of the pendulum" , but a permanent change. Socialism is dead, and it is not going to come back. Capitalism has become so widespread and so much taken for granted on a global scale, and so widely recognized as the only viable organizing principle for economic betterment, it will not be turned back in a significant way.

    The free market paradigm rules. No one with any sense advocates big government for the sake of big government. Also, the programs which the Democrats created ( Social Security, Medicare, etc ) will have to be reformed or the cost will destroy our economy. More taxes will not solve these looming entitlement problems, but more taxes WILL harm the economy. So, as I see it, Democrats are trapped. They are partly victims of their own past successes, but they are also victims of economic reality. There will be no new big government programs. We simply CANNOT afford it as a nation. We cannot even afford current and future obligations.

    Is conservatism as we have known it dead ? Probably. But there is not going to be a new era of big government liberalism. The solutions of the global age call for decentralized power, flexibility and local empowerment; not big government social engineering from the top down.

    The really big arguement about the nature of government and the nature of the free market is over. And the free market won.

    • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 8:57:24 AM

      Nothing is timeless except God. Unless you are a godless Conservative who impiously and idolotrously believes that man made principles can be "timeless."

  • Posted By: Jim_009911 @ 02/18/2008 4:06:19 PM

    There's nothing like good, objective analysis. People are fed up in a lot of ways. It's not about ideology. It's about a calcified elite across the board that has no interest in the will of the people. Why do you think Obama is beating Hillary? McCain is basically being nominated by default. If he had been a little better prepared and a little better funded, Mike Huckabee could very well have won the Republican nomination. There is a problem with the status quo, and there is a problem with the "leadership" style of the baby boom generation. The Democrats took control of Congress, and their approval rating summarily dropped below the previous Republican majorities, and below Bush. This is not about conservatism and liberalism. It's "throw the bums out" on a massive scale.

    • Posted By: SkiUSA @ 02/18/2008 4:38:32 PM

      When things like this are done on a massive scale, it is usually through Revolution. The downside is that the marxist/socialists also believe in revolution and their Moveon.org ilk would be more than greatful for a revolution on their terms (marxist socialism with Rainbow flags). I am not sure what the appeal is of socialism but it has enthralled stupid people for many years.

      When the United States declared indpendence from England, they were prepared with a constitution and several years of political thought (Federalist Papers, etc.) so that a Republic was in place upon the outcome of the revolution. Now we have all kinds of weird philosophies including the Global Warming religion (hardly backed up by any kind of science- since the height of so called global warming was about 2004 and the ice caps have since refrozen as the sun enters a period of less volatility- strange that the sun could be responsible for warming the earth.. what a novel idea) and we have a population that is more likely to believe in people flying around on broom sticks than any kind of measured government.

      Most of these fruit baskets that range from Global Warmites to Muslim Shiites need to really be flushed down the toilet before anykind of sane government can be reconstituted.

      • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 8:26:29 AM

        Ski is doing a good job of proving himself to be an uneducated idiot ??? all while accusing anyone who disagrees with him/her of this.

        American History. The Federalist Papers were l written in the space of one year,1788, primarily for use in persuading the New York convention to ratify the Constitution, which was written and proposed in 1787.

        Global Warming. Rush Limbaugh is not a scientist. The science comes from the International Panel for Climate Change ??? a collaboration of scientists from all over the world set up in the 1980s at the behest of Ronald Reagan. The IPCC found after 20 years of observation and research (all published online):

        1. The global average minimum nighttime temperature has risen. This is unlikely to be caused by some variability in the sun, for example, and appears linked to the greenhouse gases that hold in heat radiating from the earth???s surface, even after the sun has gone down.

        2. The stratosphere, high above the earth???s surface, has cooled, which is an expected outcome of having more heat trapped by the gases closer to the surface, in the troposphere. Scientists say that variations in the sun???s output, for example, would instead cause similar trends in the two
        atmospheric layers instead of opposite ones.

        2004 was NOT the warmest year on record. On January 9, 2007, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced that 2006 was the warmest year on record in the United States. Google it. 2007 was probably warmer, but figures have yet to be released.

        Polar ice is NOT re-freezing. In January 2008, a paper published in Nature Geoscience reported that Antarctica as a whole is now losing ice yearly, and each year it's losing more, based on mapping of 85 percent of the continent over the past decade using radar data from European, Japanese and Canadian weather satellites. The article also notes that the tonnage of yearly ice loss in Antarctica is approaching that of Greenland, where ice sheets are known to be melting rapidly in some parts and where ancient glaciers have been in retreat. Google it.

        CONSERVATISM: anti-logic, anti-fact, anti-history, anti-science, anti-law, anti-reason, anti-American.

  • Posted By: p_seshadri @ 02/18/2008 12:41:57 PM

    Great insight as usual Mr. Zakaria. But what is new about McCain's thinking? He compares himself to Reagan every chance he gets, and he supports Bush's foreign policy and this tax cuts, both of which you cite as unpopular. True, he is a conservative apostate as regards immigration and to a lesser extent the environment, but since the war and the economy are the top two issues on voters' minds, I don't think his candidacy represents a significant break from conservatism.

    • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/18/2008 2:20:42 PM

      These so-called Conservatives are nuts. Just read the posts here, in which one Conservative excommunicates Reagan or Bush or McCain or some other Conservative poster. It's like the squabbling of religious fanatics or the Communists Trotsky and Stalin.

      McCain is Conservative -- more so than Reagan or Bush. That some Conservatives don???t think so only shows how nutty they all are. McCain, being a true Conservative and "foot solider in the Reagan Revolution, insanely believes the Bush tax cuts, which now produce a deficit of $400M, after credits from the SS surplus, can be extended beyond 2017, when SS benefits will exceed intake. In other words, he. believes that the Chinese or petro-states will endlessly lend us $trillions to finance boomer retirement and McCain???s wars.

      But the world has never worked that way and won't just because McCain and the Conservatives want it to.

      • Posted By: Johnlaw146 @ 02/19/2008 8:04:00 AM

        The "so called Bush tax cuts brought in more revenue in to the treasury in fact record amounts of cash. Now if he held the line on spending instead of expanding the government like he did the point would not be missed. If the Liberals are willing to give $500-$1200 for a stimulus package which takes money out of the treasury then why do they object so much to taxpayer receiving tax cuts. Sure if you pay more taxes like the top 1% that pay 17% of the taxes according to the IRS then you recieve a bigger tax cut.

  • Posted By: maggiek @ 02/18/2008 5:10:07 PM

    The article and ensuing responses prove that there is no accepted definition of liberalism or conservatism as embodied by politicians today. Is it because they are willing to abandon ideology in order to solve real problems or to vacate their principles in order to be elected?
    Also, if Ski's idea of middle class is earning in excess of $200,000, then I guess Obama will raise taxes on the middle class. If an inadequate resume is not pursuing the elite benies President of the Law Review at Harvard gets offered, (supreme court clerkship and on up, etc.) to work with real challenges and of the un-priveleged, learning the value of actually listening (what a concept for a leader) as well as leading, educating, that seems to be a lot of people's, me included, kind of inadequacy.
    Our country is in its worst shape ever. The world of which we are a part faces perilous problems while we cannot seem to evolve beyond the greed and small picture thinking that got us here in order to cooperate to stop tipping and achieve balance.

    And why is campaign reform a" liberal" idea?

    • Posted By: SkiUSA @ 02/18/2008 5:55:59 PM

      Now that the Junior Senator has moved beyond editor of the School paper his first piece of real legislation of the past few weeks (Global Poverty Act) would be disaster on top of financial disaster. The legislation, if approved (currently blocked thank goodness), dedicates 0.7 percent of the U.S. gross national product to foreign aid, which over 13 years he said would amount to $845 billion over and above what the U.S.
      already spends.

      When the Chinese are a large holder of US debt it could be said, that China would pick up the tab. Unfortunately, China is converting to Euros and other currency which has led to the devaluation of the dollar. When China fully converts, they will likely go to war with Taiwan, and I am sure the Junior Senator would be completely clueless to deal with that eventuality. But hey, the school newspaper editor does make a good speech if you consider stealing the theme (Yes we Can) from the Children's Asthma Foundation. America does not need interns as President. But thanks for your hopes.

      • Posted By: SkiUSA @ 02/18/2008 5:59:57 PM

        When you compare Obama's resume to someone like Romney, you really have to wonder what (or maybe that's the point- nothing) the electorate is thinking when they show up at a rally.

        • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 7:56:25 AM

          Obama has 11 years in public office, 3 in the federal government. Romney had four years in government, none at the federal level. His business career is not very impressive: he made $250M in leveraged buyouts -- borrowing money to buy companies, chopping them into pieces, and selling the pieces for enough to repay the loan and leave a profit -- a glorified junkyard dealer. It's not as if he started and ran a large enterprise like a Bloomberg. Romney had the THINNEST resume of any candidate this year -- a joke really. More Conservative craziness.

  • Posted By: bfp9130 @ 02/18/2008 3:13:26 PM

    Wow, it sure is interesting how we on the conservative side get hammered in an angry way. I have not read any hate coming from any of us. Kind of reminds me of the global warming debate, somehow that got brought up earlier. The more I talk to people left of me the more I feel sorry for them. There is always some injustice that is keeping them down or someone is to blame for the perceived bad luck. Conservatism is hard, you take responsibility for yourself, blame no one for your situation, work hard to get ahead, give aid in the form of advice and knowledge, and look at yourself when you make a mistake. We live in a great country that even the poorest among can succeed beyond our wildest dreams. I would like to have a liberal explain where in history their ideas have helped. New deal does not count because due to popular belief it made things worse. It took the massive consumption of WWII to get the world out of the depression. Fair and honest debate is all we as conservatives want. This has become a sound bite world and liberalism sounds better because you do not have to dig deep into the concepts behind it.

    • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 7:48:34 AM

      Conservatives deserve to be hammered. You vote for people you claim to be conservatives who have turned this country into a mess. Your answer is that they weren' t really conservatives after all. Sorry, Conservative means whatever Reagan and Bush did and the results. Recitations of abstract principle won' change it. Conservatism has discredited Liberalism and now itself. It deserves to be viewed with same opprobrium as Liberalism. Time for something new.

    • Posted By: howdy @ 02/19/2008 2:32:59 AM

      LIberal ideas such as free markets? Giving people the vote? Ending slavery? Publics schools, public health care, public firefighters? Oh by the way the Reagan era doesn't count as a success either. Just as FDR was a flop due to the massive consumption of WW2, so was Reagan. He shoveled money off the back of the truck, adding what $5 trillion to the debt? It took the first Bush to realise the insanity and enacted the largest tax hikes in history. Conservatives and self reliance, makes me laugh. Conservatives have never seen a program that they've enacted and acutally paid for. Just borrow it and call it the miracle of tax cuts.

  • Posted By: SkiUSA @ 02/18/2008 2:06:36 PM

    People like mnjam are confusing liberalism with conservativism. Liberalism is the headliner for a country in excess at the mandate of the population. An undisciplined population can indeed vote themselves the treasury and the politicians will oblige them to get votes. Conservativism does not take flight from science, reality or reason and is the opposite of narcissism (liberalism). Conservativism does have a problem with Democracy that is not checked by constitutional government (usually a Republic). For example, politicians of the Republic cannot disobey the laws of the land based solely on popular opinion. Politicians are obliged to uphold the law such as in immigration policy, for example. But because new immigrants make up an increasing voter block, the laws are disregarded at the Republic's peril because politicians want the voter block. Nor is conservativism to be confused with evangelicalism. Our Republic has a separation of church and state.

    Certainly, post boomers are the main victims of the current generation of liberals not conservatives. The biggest error of liberalism is to take from one to give to another which is the basis of the Social Security entitlement program which WILL go bankrupt from loose fiscal responsibility at the hands of the liberal politicians. Left to themselves, the politicians will bankrupt Rome.

    What conservativism needs today is to kick out the evangelicals that are wrecking havoc with the Separation of Church and state, kick out the blundering liberal politicians that would turn our country into a third world nation, and install judges that follow the constitution.

    It would help if ignorant people like mnjam would also get their facts straight before the dribble begins.

    • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/18/2008 2:25:28 PM

      Dude. Conservatives have been in control of national economic and social policy since 1980. Twenty of those years had a Republican President. Eight had a Democrat, but for six of those he was controlled by the most right-wing Congress in history. It's just a fact. To lay the last 28 years at the doorstep of liberals is utterly ridiculous.

      • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/18/2008 2:29:33 PM

        Ski is just another crazy Conservative. He ex communicates evangelicals. He disavows any action by Reagan or Bush or the Republican Congress which he does not like as "liberal." What's left. Just Ski and his opinions. Apparently, true Conservatism is whatever Ski thinks and a truly Conservative government would be a dictatorship of Ski.

        • Posted By: SkiUSA @ 02/18/2008 3:53:12 PM

          A true conservative government would be held in check by the Constitution. Ski did not write the constitution. I am not an appologist of Bush, Reagan or anyone else. I don't even hear that many people coming down on Reagan for granting amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens but he did. I find it interesting that George Bush is a true "African" president giving away billions of dollars in more US debt to Africa than any other president in history. I think it is great that America is such a compassionate lot. However, if I am in debt myself, how is it that I can go further in debt to help the YMCA down the street? The idea is to first get your own house in order. You dislike the fact that I am a conservative and disown the Republican party as if it were a conservative party. In truth it has had conservatives in the party because they have no party of their own but in reality the Republican party has become so centrist that it has members that share the same values as Democrats like opening the borders to uneducated people (I assume much like yourself) that are completely clueless on the principles that make a Republic last.

          The idea that an individual with an inadequate resume, to say the least, but has the ability to orate script that was lifted by a five finger discount from others (like the Children's Asthma Foundation- "Yes We Can") is not going to help the Republic but you are entitled to your false hopes in a democracy. The idea that a person is entitled to something by virtue of their religion, or color or sex, is rediculous expect in Mexico and other corrupt 3rd world countries like unto which the US is going to become. It is the politics of hate and division all the while the orator preaches some tune like we can all get along. The story of Obama is clear: If you have a non starter for a resume, you have gay sex and smoke dope, and claim you are the saviour of Washington based on no agenda other than talk, then you too can become President of the United States. Hummm.... now that is a joke.

          • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 7:44:16 AM

            A republic will not last if it endlessly borrows from the rest of the world. I assume you agree with that? How can you possibly vote for a party which tripled the national debt between 1981 and 1992, transformed his country from the world's largest creditor nation into the world's largest debtor nation, and then redoubled the national debt from 2001 through 2008. You say you are a conservative, that the Republican Party is not, but you vote Republican. More Conservative craziness. No one is stopping you and like minded people from forming your own party.

          • Posted By: mnjam @ 02/19/2008 7:36:48 AM

            The Constitution, which you profess to follow, requires that the President be 35 years old, a natural born citizen, and to have resided in the US for fourteen years. Obama meets these requirements. Beyond that, it is up to the voters. There is no resume requirement. Moreover, some of our best Presidents have had thinner resumes (records in public office) than Obama, including Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt.


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