Another Failed State?

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  • Posted By: SRBIN @ 02/18/2008 7:26:00 PM

    HEY MOSHE. K WE LOST KOSOVO BEFORE AND GOT IT BACK AS FOR THE RUSSIANS WE WERE NEVER UNDER THERE CONTROL AND NEVER WILL BE KOSOVO WILL BE PART OF SERBIA AGAIN AS FOR YOUR COMMENTS I CAN CARE LESS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT LEAR YOUR HISTORY FIRST THEN I MIGHT LISTEN AS FOR THE SERBS NOT STANDING UP TO MILOSEVIC READ THE PAPERS WE KICKED HIM OUT AND SENT HIM TO THE HAUGE . PEOPLE HERE IN THE us SUPPORTED THESE MUSLIM PEOPLE AND NOW ARE FIGHTING THEM THEY SUPPORTED AFGAN AND NOW LOOK WHAT IS HAPPING KOSOVO WILL BE A BREEDING GROUND FOR TERRORIST GROUPS THAT MIGHT ONE DAY ATTACK THE US AGAIN YOU HAVE MADE YOUR BEDS NOW YOU CAN SLEEP IN THEM

    • Posted By: kingendrit @ 02/18/2008 7:28:47 PM

      You just proved my point Serb.

  • Posted By: kingendrit @ 02/18/2008 7:21:45 PM

    Serbs are the "Devil". I know no other word to describe them, they are filled with hate not just for Albanians but for their fellow man. If they had their way they would start another mass slaughter. I cant help but notice how silly their comments are against Kosovar Albanians, they sound like total idiots. They have no ground to base their argument on but "Kosovo is heart of Serbia." The whole world knows what happened in 1999. Do you expect the Kosovar people to forget that? The only way out is for the Kosovo to be independent, so suck it up Serbia and just accept it.

  • Posted By: doesntmatter @ 02/18/2008 7:20:59 PM

    Congratulation Mr. Bush and U.S. politics
    You just supported a new "independent" Al-qaeda trainning camp, good luck, and don't cry when they hit you again.

  • Posted By: HKARAHAN @ 02/18/2008 3:33:09 PM

    KOSOVO NEEDS TO BE ENDORSED BY ALL COUNTRIES. THEY DO DESERVE THE INDEPENDENCY. THERE WERE A LOT OF KOSOVO PEOPLE KILLED BY THE SERBIANS. AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, I BELIEVE SERBIANS CAN GO TO HELL FOR THE TORTURE THEY HAVE DONE TO THE KOSOVIAN PEOPLE.

    • Posted By: vojkan @ 02/18/2008 7:17:37 PM

      Then give ur false America to Indians coz they are banished. in ur country only white man is welcome and all others are hated BY YOU AND UR FALSE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ur people killing all others, throwing atom bombs on city's and killing thousand of all others, its ur country who put their noses in every hole searching for treasure and money ( TIME IS MONEY), on every corner there u can see old veterans how they lie on street without food and water, ITS THAT UR AMERICA?. u can go to the hell and all americans with you.

    • Posted By: JJJJJ @ 02/18/2008 4:08:08 PM

      Hi Toni

      Thank you for the nice comment about the U.S. I have been to Albania and was inspired by the love the Albania people/government have for the U.S. Private homes as well as government buildings are adorned with the American flag, flying next to the Albania flag.

      Unfortunately, for the Albania people, their government is incompetent and corrupt, which makes living in Albania a strain for its people. I understand that Albanians have been abused for centuries and the 20th century being especially harsh under the Stalinist Communist regime of Enver Hoxha.

      Since I am not Albanian (but have many Albanian relatives via marriage) you can imagine the culture shock I experienced in Albania! I liked very much the south, below Vlore, and adjusted to the lack of running water since the seaside was so beautiful (it is just so hard to get to). The cities of Vlore and Tirana were another story ??? traffic disasters, screaming motorists, burning trash, the worst drivers on the planet (who will run you down) and Kosovors begging along the streets.

      Another thing that bothered me was Saudi Arabia???s push into Albania ??? trying to stir up a people at peace with different religions into an Islamic state. All Albanians need to turn away the money from these intolerant, Islamo-facists.

      I hope that the new Kosovo government is more responsive than Albania???s government. I hope Albania???s government drastically improves, the Albanians learn the social norms of respect and courtesy will driving, learn that yelling all the time is bad, and reach their goals.

      The Albanian people are hard working and have everything it takes to succeed. They just need a break from the world and need to clamp down on the organized crime that enters Albania from Kosovo. Albanians need to make sure the Kosovors don???t infiltrate the country of Albanian, which is learning to stand on its own.

      As for the Serbs, they have proven to the world how terrible people could be in the late 1990s to other human beings ??? shades of Nazi Germany.

  • Posted By: SRBIN @ 02/18/2008 4:02:43 PM

    tony m look at the battle of kosovo 1389 serb have in kosovo for hundreds of years YOU need to read your history go back to school .the kingdom of serbia included 75% of bosnia and all of kosovo well before 1913 how would you feel if the mexicans wanted new mexico to join mexico part of florida to cuba come on people this is all fuled by oil and military bases in europe KOSOVO WILL ALWAYS BE A PART OF SERBIA no matter what maps say maps are always changing you cannot let one people have their own state and deny another

    • Posted By: Moshe K. @ 02/18/2008 6:05:14 PM

      Hey SRBIN,
      Kosovo is now Independant and is not a part of Serbia.
      Serbia lost! And the Russians are going to dump you also, like they have dumped every other country they had relations with. You got exactly what you deserved. People do not side with Genocidal Villians in this day and age.

    • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 4:18:27 PM

      And you knows how many hundreds of years ago when Slavic people came to that teritory some other people lived there. In USA the Indians lived before the "Americans" so it is not their country. When will you start to live in the present and not in the past? Albanins fought for it and they got it, Serbs lost. Serbian problem is that they have issues in their genetics. With Turkish empire, then Tito, then Milosevic... When were the Serbs united as one and wanted the best for one another. Albanian loby is very strong in the world, where is the Serb lobby? You think Hasim Taci and Agim Ceku and other politicians in Kosovo and Albania don't have things against each other? But one thing that on a blobal plan they have the same goal and work together. That brought them Indipendant Kosovo. If Serbs wanted Kosovo so much they could have had it, although it should have been done years ago, but they did not. By the way I am Serbian and I am not writing this against Serbia but I hope it will finaly start growing stronger economicaly, politicaly and socialy. There isn't Montenegro anymore or Kosovo to hold us back. Sad truth is Kosovo and Montenegro in 10 years will probably be way below Serbia.

  • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 6:00:56 PM

    Dragan-DB: Agree with you. This is why Spain (basc issue), Greece (Cyprus), China (Taiwan) are hesitant to recognized Kosova. Indeed different because of the 1990's and history (discussed in this forum. The above have always been the same country.

    shomi_rkc: AGREE with you. It is worth for Albania as well. While Kosovo's indipendence is good for its people, countries like Serbia/Albania etc support the same politicians who have no visions for their countries.

  • Posted By: JJJJJ @ 02/18/2008 5:07:03 PM

    TonyB -

    We are trying to get my brother-in-law over here. He is an Albanian living in Athens. Luckily, Greece let???s his family live there legally. They pass for Greek and are accepted by other Greeks, unless, of course they say they are Albanian. Then, all of a sudden, they are looked down upon. I find it all very interesting since I am not from that part of the world but have spent some time there. In fact, I know Albanians living in Greece whose children speak better Greek than Albanian - they have become Greek yet the Greeks deny them citizenship even though they have Greek blood. So there parents have to go to Albania, stand in line for days for papers and to renew passports. How will the children survive in the future when none of them know how to speak Albanian?

    The immigration process is slow in the U.S. I am proud we are having him do it legally. Legally will give him a chance at a successful life in America. I have heard of too many stories of Albanians here illegally working by making pizza or working for Middle Easterners in liquor stores. Those Albanians will always be poor and living in the shadows.

    It is frustrating because so many people come to America illegally from Mexico and all the politicians care only for those south of the border (Hispanic votes) and not for Eastern Europeans who live in standards on par with many regions in Mexico. The U.S. immigration policy is lopsided towards Mexicans and not other parts of the world.

    We have been waiting about 4 years and continue to wait??? Any ideas to help?

    • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 5:50:08 PM

      Do you mean me? If so, this forum will not be the right place for this. Email me at me4u2lyke@aol.com

  • Posted By: Dragan-DG @ 02/18/2008 5:47:42 PM

    The fear is that Kosovo will create a prcecedent, for separatists, all ovewr the world, but I don't see how.. I think Kosovo is unique because of the genocide that took place around 1990. Sure, if a population faces genocide, it jhas the right to survive, doesn't it?

    D.

  • Posted By: Moshe K. @ 02/18/2008 3:01:26 PM

    Neo-Nazi skinheads attack 2 Israelis in Belgrade
    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/9307.htm

    • Posted By: Peacemaker01 @ 02/18/2008 3:16:33 PM

      THIS IS BETTER ...ALBANIANS BEAT ISRAELI PEOPLES
      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1908389/posts

      • Posted By: Moshe K. @ 02/18/2008 5:47:17 PM

        That article is truly a lie. The youths were found to be Greek and not Albanian.
        My young naive friend, you are a Nazi Serb and will never be regarded as a human as long as you
        fill yourself with such trash.

  • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 4:12:40 PM

    TO SRBIN: All is for oil and military bases? Is there oil in Kosovo? Military bases? Kosova does not even have sea access. And NATO is in Italy, Greece, Slovenia, Croatian and Albania.
    While maps do lie at times, it is important that people can move on with their lives whenever they are. There has been too much "bad news" on the Balcans. While Kosovo's independence is not good news to Serbs, the Balcan's will be better off.

    • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 4:21:13 PM

      TonyM did you ever heard of Camp Bondsteel? You know what that is? Have you ever been to Kosovo? No oil there but coal. Lots of it.

      • Posted By: trimi66 @ 02/18/2008 5:36:00 PM

        Been 2 Bondsteel got the t- shirt. It's a "Burger King" basically. No real threat 2 anything except hunger. So far as natural resources; it is true the region has rich ore reserves of all types. It's a shame no one has used them efficiently with the possible exception of Adolph Hitler.

      • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 4:32:53 PM

        http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-bondsteel.htm

        NOPE, never been to Kosovo. A few people mention trepce works, belgrade builds. US does not need Kosovo's coal Shomi. I am not a military strategist to justify the Bondsteel base and its use.

        It is my opinion that US/EU did not enter Kosovo for bases/coal.

        • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 5:07:50 PM

          Don't belive in everything you read regardin Bondsteel.
          The economical and energetical value of ores in Kosovo is very very high.
          Serbia never took real advantage of it, Trepca works Belgrade buids more of a propaganda term, now Kosovo govermant is not gona take full advantage of it also. Out of it entire Kosovo could be built.

  • Posted By: Rittley @ 02/18/2008 4:33:26 PM

    Serbia is indeed in a predicament that has long been due. Some might say I am going too far but I strongly belive all present conflicts on the Balkans are a result of Serbia's policy!We ought to take a look at the psychology of that people!Serbia has never been a great empire like her neighbors Greece,Bulgaria,Romania!The only state formation Serbs are proud of and would like to cling to is Yugoslavia-not only the one that recently collapsed but the one before WWII.If we dig in that period we can find out that Serb's atrocities are far from just a recent event!Both Yugoslavias are based on thorough ethnic purges in the lands of today's independent republics like Bosnia and Herzegovina,Montenegro,Croatia,FYROMacedonia and already Kosovo!Serbia was concentrating all efforts to erase any traces of national,ethnic or religous consciousness that might have remained after the long Ottoman rule over those peoples! And Serbia went even that far as to take advantage of its neighbors-Greece and Bulgaria- which had their minorities especially on the territory of today's FYROMacedonia!Ask how many people with Greek, Bulgarian and Macedonian national consciousness were brutally killed by Serbs in both Yugoslavias!Why do Macedonians have an identity crisis today?And even behind the name dispute with Greece we can see the results of Serbia's actions that had the only goal to brainwash these people and grant them Serbian identity mixed with sarcastic anti-Greek and anti-Bulgarian feelings!And if both Bulgaria and Greece accuse Macedonians of steeling their identity it's only because of Serbian rule!Serbia was annexing foreign territories in her Yugoslavias, now it's time for the truth to come up!All those ex-Yugoslavian people are finding their identity and establishing their states!Now it is time for the Balkan states to watch Serbia's collpapse which is nothing but a logical result of her own policy!

    • Posted By: Show me ! @ 02/18/2008 5:35:19 PM

      "Serbia was annexing foreign territories in her Yugoslavias"

      Again... read about International peace congreses after WWI and WWII... please do not writte if you do not know !
      Please do not intentionaly lie !

    • Posted By: Show me ! @ 02/18/2008 5:33:16 PM

      "If we dig in that period we can find out that Serb's atrocities are far from just a recent event!Both Yugoslavias are based on thorough ethnic purges in the lands of today's independent republics like Bosnia and Herzegovina,Montenegro,Croatia,FYROMacedonia and already Kosovo!"

      Ethnic purges !? Again read books on Hitler's Germany Puppet states in Europe, like Croatia and "work camps for Jews, Serbs and Gipsy"

      Both Yugoslavias are results of International peace congreses after WWI and WWII !

    • Posted By: Show me ! @ 02/18/2008 5:30:13 PM

      "Serbia has never been a great empire like her neighbors Greece,Bulgaria,Romania!The only state formation Serbs are proud of and would like to cling to is Yugoslavia-not only the one that recently collapsed but the one before WWII "

      Read history books please ! Find more info on "Dusan Empire"

    • Posted By: Show me ! @ 02/18/2008 5:28:49 PM

      "We ought to take a look at the psychology of that people!"

      You imply that all of Serbs are like Milosevic? I know quite a lot of them which are not!

    • Posted By: Show me ! @ 02/18/2008 5:27:07 PM

      Are you crazy ?
      Why are you poisoning the minds of people by such comment. You are insulting our inteligence by these lies. We read history books and you should go to the nearest library yourself !

  • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 4:58:40 PM

    Churchil said something like: people fail in large part because of their leaders. With Serbia that is true. What I don't understand is when will the majority of the people get a bit smarter and start to think.

  • Posted By: JJJJJ @ 02/18/2008 4:27:49 PM

    I meant TonyM, and not Toni. Sorry about that...

    • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 4:42:14 PM

      No worries JJJJ. Here I am writting instead of studying :). Most of the postings are mature and I enjoyed writting. I just wish that things fall in place for the best in our countries. I am proud to be a US citizen and most likely I will not live in the balcans in my lifetime. People there deserve a chance to live in peace and prosperity. Look at Slovenians and Croatians. They are good examples to be followed.

  • Posted By: ATS0626 @ 02/18/2008 4:38:36 PM

    all this back & forth about Serbia and Kosovo is nonsense. Unless all parties learn to live with each other, this part of the world will just be a big mess with no future. The people need to worry less about starting a new country and start working on fixing issues relevant to the whole area. Unless that happens, none of this matters. It is just a continuation of the same mess with no end in site. Another part of the world where there is no future. It does not matter what happened 800 years ago or during WWII or even 20 years ago. Unless the people realize that they need to work together nothing will change. So good luck Kosovo because you will all need it.

  • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 4:34:14 PM

    When will you start to live in the present and not in the past? Albanins fought for it and they got it, Serbs lost. Serbian problem is that they have issues in their genetics. With Turkish empire, then Tito, then Milosevic... When were the Serbs united as one and wanted the best for one another. Albanian loby is very strong in the world, where is the Serb lobby? You think Hasim Taci and Agim Ceku and other politicians in Kosovo and Albania don't have things against each other? But one thing that on a blobal plan they have the same goal and work together. That brought them Indipendant Kosovo. If Serbs wanted Kosovo so much they could have had it, although it should have been done years ago, but they did not. By the way I am Serbian and I am not writing this against Serbia but I hope it will finaly start growing stronger economicaly, politicaly and socialy. There isn't Montenegro anymore or Kosovo to hold us back. Sad truth is Kosovo and Montenegro in 10 years will probably be way below Serbia.

  • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 4:25:45 PM

    To JJJJ: Hi JJJJ.
    Albania is indeed a beautiful country. It has been unfortunate for us and for that matter to Serbia as well to deal with corrupt politicians who do not have the maturity to move the countries ahead. Albanians are indeed very welcoming, to their own, to tourists and to many in this forum amazement - even to Serbs/yugoslavins.

    Albania is a secular country where people intermarry between religions and religion has never been an issue between the people. In Kosova, religion is used in between other reasons to deny Kosovo's right to indipendence - which they would not have had if it it was not for the ultra nationalist movemnet under Milosevic which burned and disbanded Yugoslavia.
    Albania itself has suffered a lot under politicians that enrich themselves and do not move the country forward. I have lived for 12 years in NY and I love this country where you have a choice to make your own future. And you feel sorry for entire generations in Albania, Kosova and Serbia who do not have a full chance of moving on. I wish Kosovo's people and its leadership good luck in moving forward and I hope they mature enough to move on a delicate road on their own - crime and corruption is a problem in ALL 3 countrie above and it hold back the countries while enriching a few.

  • Posted By: JJJJJ @ 02/18/2008 4:08:43 PM

    Hi Toni

    Thank you for the nice comment about the U.S. I have been to Albania and was inspired by the love the Albania people/government have for the U.S. Private homes as well as government buildings are adorned with the American flag, flying next to the Albania flag.

    Unfortunately, for the Albania people, their government is incompetent and corrupt, which makes living in Albania a strain for its people. I understand that Albanians have been abused for centuries and the 20th century being especially harsh under the Stalinist Communist regime of Enver Hoxha.

    Since I am not Albanian (but have many Albanian relatives via marriage) you can imagine the culture shock I experienced in Albania! I liked very much the south, below Vlore, and adjusted to the lack of running water since the seaside was so beautiful (it is just so hard to get to). The cities of Vlore and Tirana were another story ??? traffic disasters, screaming motorists, burning trash, the worst drivers on the planet (who will run you down) and Kosovors begging along the streets.

    Another thing that bothered me was Saudi Arabia???s push into Albania ??? trying to stir up a people at peace with different religions into an Islamic state. All Albanians need to turn away the money from these intolerant, Islamo-facists.

    I hope that the new Kosovo government is more responsive than Albania???s government. I hope Albania???s government drastically improves, the Albanians learn the social norms of respect and courtesy will driving, learn that yelling all the time is bad, and reach their goals.

    The Albanian people are hard working and have everything it takes to succeed. They just need a break from the world and need to clamp down on the organized crime that enters Albania from Kosovo. Albanians need to make sure the Kosovors don???t infiltrate the country of Albanian, which is learning to stand on its own.

    As for the Serbs, they have proven to the world how terrible people could be in the late 1990s to other human beings ??? shades of Nazi Germany.

  • Posted By: TonyM @ 02/18/2008 3:02:30 PM

    shomi_rkc: Albania a german ally?? Maybe its pupet govenment was. Albania fought the germans just as the serbs did. MOVE ON Shomi. You people are still brainwashed, what the serbs did in 1990's Nazis did in 1940's. Serbs learned very well and Croatians, Slovens, Bosnians and Albanians in Kosovo could tell you about that.

    • Posted By: shomi_rkc @ 02/18/2008 4:05:45 PM

      Exactly and th


















      And the Serbia pupet govermant did all that *** in all old Yugoslavia. And there are hundres's thousand's of Serbs who could tell you the same story you are pointing with Croat's...
      I am glad Kosovo will go indipendant as Serbia will be free of it finaly and maybe start to change and improve. Now politicians will not be able to argue about it so much. But we will see how Kosovo will manage. You think USA cares about people in Kosovo?
      My problem is the majority of people will have issues with Albanians and them with Serbs and that is what gives oportunity to leaders to mess around with people's lives.
      I would have no problem sitting, if you are educated enough to think for yourself and make racional conclusions, with you somewhere, living in the same city... Would you with me?


  • Posted By: belyno @ 02/18/2008 4:05:32 PM

    It is very sad but US and the major EU powers do not abide by International Laws. They only do so when it is convenient. Everybody will know the law that matters are number of tanks and bombs.
    People (and I mean governments) are no different from 'the caves' and unfortunately it will lead for more war and suffering. Shame on you, US! Shame on you France,

    Marques, United States

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