What will be lost with the shoot-down of a U.S. spy satellite.
Comment: and forget about the US trying to spook China. Ping Coal Mining has held shares in the Federal Reserve
since the Cold War.
Comment: I hope the highly toxic "di-hydrogene monoxide" fuel cell lands on my head so I can use the low-tech
to run my car for free.
Comment: The test was successful, the satellite was destroyed. So to the Chinese the message was sent, anything you can do we can do better. We now have the capability to shoot down an ICBM in the boost phase of the missles launch cycle, and the capability to shoot down LEO satelltes as well. Advantage, US.
Comment: This had nothing to do with the hydrazine on the satilite. This was simply an oportunity to test using a missle to shoot down a satilite. A preclude to any need to use weapons in space later on. If you remember, the Chinese did this about a year ago, and our gov. was unhappy about that. Just check and see how the Chinese, and Russians feel about this.
Comment: This had nothing to do with hydrazine. The main stream press simply repeats whatever the administration tells it. I personally think this was a way to test our ability to shoot down a satelite period. If you remember, the Chinese did this a year ago. If you want to know what was really going on just look at what the Chinese and Russians said about this.
Comment: First you have to believe we hit it in one shot,[ which i doubt seriously ] that would require trusting our current government, and there track record sucks, and lies abound, then you need to BELIEVE the rest, gimmi a break! We fired to install fear in countries who don't have anything but rocks and stones, not to invent the water pump, or we will fire these accurate??? missles at you! So don't build a bike, it's threatens our security! Just like the atomic bomb [you know the safe one, for the rest of the people on top of the planet] but no one to drop it on! As we need the oil so Iraq was out of the question, but used for the fear factor to warn the world, we run it, and with the power of I.O.U.s we bought it to, and are still making payments.
Warmongers are easy to see at work! All they like to do is spread fear, till someone is so scared, they strike! There you have it, another, profitable, hundred thousand body bag, conflict!! Jjust what we wanted in the first place!
Comment: Silly child!!
We are very capable of hitting the object in question with one shot. Math, calculations, and physics are amazing if you know how they work.
You have been blinded by the media, youngster. Get a clue about the military's research and you may find these things interesting and understand it has nothing to do with "warmongering".
Comment: Yet other attempts at just this type of thing(Star Wars tests) failed completely.
Comment: Too many technical errors in the article for me to take all the speculation seriously. Acute exposure to hydrazine, which this would be, is more than ???moderately toxic???. More questionable though is the statement about the "zero temperature of space". Space, especially earth orbit, is not zero temperature. That's meaningless. The side of an object facing a heat source, like the Earth or the sun, can be > +250 deg F. The opposite side of the same object, facing deep space, can be < minus 200 deg F.
And the fact that something has never happened before, is not proof it can???t. That is the same hubris for which the space program is criticized frequently.
Finally the next to last paragraph is not reporting, it???s pure speculating. But it???s the insidious, disingenuous type of speculation that???s intended to plant guesses out there as if they are facts merely lacking confirmation by cloak-and-dagger bureaucrats. The reporter should be ashamed.
Comment: Too many technical errors in the article for me to take all the speculation seriously. Acute exposure to hydrazine, which this would be, is more than ???moderately toxic???. More questionable though is the statement about the "zero temperature of space". Space, especially earth orbit, is not zero temperature. The side of an object facing a heat source, like the Earth or the sun, can be > +250 deg F. The opposite side of the same object, facing deep space, can be < minus 200 deg F.
And the fact that something has never happened before, is not proof it can???t. That is the same hubris for which the space program is criticized frequently.
Finally the next to last paragraph is not reporting, it???s pure speculating. But it???s the insidious, disingenuous type of speculation that???s intended to plant guesses out there as if they are facts merely lacking confirmation by cloak-and-dagger bureaucrats. The reporter should be ashamed.
Comment: iSN'T IT OBVIOUS? TtHE ADMINISTRATION EITHER IS WARNING CHINA AND RUSSIA, OR TESTING SOME KIND OF ANTI-NISSLE DEVICE. RCKET TELEMETERY? TRACKING AND LOCKING-O SYSTEMS? THERE MUST BE SOME FACTS WE ARE NOT GETTING.
Comment: It looks like this was just an excuse for the DoD to test its missle defense technology, a.k.a. "Star Wars." This didn't pose any real threat to earthlings. "Let's see if we can shoot something down."
But then again, who knows? The NRO is loathe to reveal anything, including its own existence.
Comment: The NRO does not exist. The NSA, CIA and DIA also do not exist. It's all just a figment of our imaginations, and we should just go back to shopping with our $1000 rebates, and pray to God that noone shoots first out of stockpile confidence issues. It does look just like the build-out of a first strike capacity.
Comment: It should come as no surprise that the drive-by media would take the opportunity to criitcize the military and the Bush administration. One day when this technology knocks down a nuclear-tipped missile from N. Korea or Iran or some other enemy aimed at the U. S., the same media will choke on its own vomit.
Comment: Except Star Wars was a complete failure!
Comment: When quoting Rush Limbaugh (drive by media) please attribute source. No actor would shoot at us long before SDI, due to overwhelming response. (Kennedy) See also: Mutually Assured Destruction
Comment: N Korea can get as far as Hawaii [MAYBE] no closer {cause these we watched them disarm unlike the USA who is on the treaty is not disarming} and not one country in the middle-east, or Asia, can hit US soil!! No missle travels 6000 miles with a nuke tip [ but our own,MAYBE] so tone down the fear factor! We have 4000 nuclear weapons!! Iran, might, maybe, could have, in 5-10 years, got to build ONE! Israel has over 200 nukes, we gave them! So explain why, we, should have to bleed for the strongest country in the middle-east, and as oppresive as they are, they might deserve what they get!
Comment: Forget the $74 million, that's complete chump change in this context. I want to know how much the satellite cost to develop (hundreds of millions at a minimum) and a good explanation as to how it's possible that something so expensive and "advanced" never worked in the first place. That's the real tragedy here.
Comment: This has nothing to do with falling debris risk or technology loss. This is a pure and simple demonstration to China and Russia and all of their surrogates that the US can and will take down any space craft that we do not want in orbit.
I have no issues with the shoot. As always we should have problems with the federal government no being open and honest with the people who pay the bills.
Get over falling debris, Chinese agents stealing our technology (they make most of it anyway) or any other goofy reason for the shoot. It was a demonstration of capability and statement that the Russians and Chinese can still be stepped on by our superior military capability. Unfortunately in 8 years the Democratic President and Congress will gut the military and we will be on the shoot down side of these incidents in the future.
Comment: I doubt that. It was Carter that gave us Stealth, Cruise Missiles, the F-15/16, etc. I would know, I was at the flight test center in those heady days of rebuilding post-vietnam. Most of America had little use for the GI then. Most of what you see on the ramp was built and bought by Democrats. It was Newts gang that said the Cold War was over and defunded us, and offered folks like me retirements.
Now, we probably have achieved a first strike nuclear capacity, and can likely knock down even a large retaliation. There are a lot of SM-3's on lots of platforms, THAAD, Patriot, and the Airborne Laser, etc. I might suggest we have perhaps a 40+ year technological advantage, and the labs are still running 24/7. You can be very pro defense and security and anti-war. As an old SAC puke, I hung around nukes singing "Peace is our Profession."
The problem with ABM systems is that it doesn't take too many warheads getting through to end us as a nation. I am not sure that part of the calculus is clear on all sides.
Comment: I'm real tired of people stateing the Dems gutted the Military! When Bush Sr left a long long long list of base closures with an amedment which stated save one save them all so they were all closed so what do you do with all the personel from all the closed bases overcrowd another no pay them to leave and that's what he did paid them to leave and reinstated complet benifits to Cold War Veterans which Bush Sr tok away! Now we overcrowd Germany and Walter Reid with wounded while an Army Medical hospital and burn center in Denver sit closed! After it closed they still added a new wing, but it's still closed cause someone took 1 TRILLION from the VA budget, and it was not Santa Clause! Do your history, you can't close bases without reducing the military, and you dam sure do not go to war and close bases and keep medical hospitals closed with 60,000 wounded comming in!!!
Comment: Let me get this straight: We put a spy satelite up and it malfunctions. It contains hazardous material. We have a good chance of destroying it before it re-enters our atmosphere and possibly causes a hazard to people and could allow others to gain access to our technology. Why the heck WOULDN'T we shoot it down? 1.) We can negate the risk of large pieces landing on earth, not to mention the fuel tank full of a poisonous substance. 2.) We keep our secrets to ourselves. 3.) We give our military a live target to practice on. What's to complain about?
Comment: Science diasgrees with you, but the current administration does not.
Comment: I agree 123%, SeattleShiela. You said it very well...and I would only add that
WE did not leave a shotgun blast of debris orbiting where it can, and likely will, hit something else, like the Chinese did! I heard tht the Chinese debris came pretty close the the Space Lab..maybe another few orbits...??
Comment: People just love to complain - even if they aren't educated enough to know what they are complaining about.
Comment: I am outraged that you'd make a judgement about whether or not shooting down the satellitte in the face of overwhelming odds against it hitting something and doing damage was worth it. You are the same people who would be ready to pounce on the Government for failure to act if it did hit something. You'd be using all that high level intelligence you suggest to have and provide some detailed analysis of why it should have been plain to everyone that shooting down the satellite was necessary.
People in responsible places make decisions based on some level of risk analysis. One was made. In fact, the missile was successful. That says something good about our military technology and our ability to mitigate a potential hazard.
Find something more useful to write about like what people in this world can do to help each other, or ways the media can just shut up and report the facts.
Rick Reeder
Greenacres, Florida
Comment: A MILLION TO ONE WHAT IF THE ONE WAS HIS CHILDREN, OF COURSE WE HAVE ANOTHER LEFT WING NEWSWEEK WRITER SPREADING ANTI AMERICANISM THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Comment: Please, keep your Rabid-Right Goose-stepping to yourself, the rest of us are interested in holding people accountable for the actions, inactions and lack of communication. Perhaps you should move to Iran where you don't have to worry about dissention, free-press or intelligent discussions of issues.
Comment: "you should move to Iran where you don't have to worry about dissention, free-press or intelligent discussions of issues."
And yet, in the name of free-speech, you tell him to shut up...
Comment: And what would Mr Barry be saying if the satelite had fallen into a school? A Hospital? Iran, who would have declared and act of agression? We never had a president shot at a theater by an actor before Lincoln, either...
The price of one missle is well worth preventing the negative press generated by a single human casualty...
Comment: Excellent summary, dkerfoot! As well, you certainly called Newsweek to task.
Comment: Thanks (I guess) but your comments are childish and unhelpful. Any enemy of the Brits is no friend of mine. Please go troll elsewhere, you have done enough damage here for one day.
Comment: Thanks, dkerfoot. The bell t(r)olls for you.
Comment: Newsweek [sic] appears to be "sick " as well. Correct your spelling to "Newsweak"...
Comment: What no one here seems to understand is how brilliant this whole thing was. 1. We showed the Chinese we can take out their satellites too (deterrence). 2. We did so without litter up space the way they did. 3. We prevented a possible security breech. 4. We did so with a plausible enough cover story so that the Russians and Chinese may complain for a day or two, they aren't forced to save face by responding in kind. 5. We eliminated a small but real chance of environmental/human harm. 6. WE SHOT A SATELLITE THAT WAS TRAVELING AT NEARLY 20,000 MPH OUT OF THE SKY FROM A NAVY SHIP! HOW COOL IS THAT?
All in all, a pretty good day for our intelligence and military folks.
Comment: What no one here seems to realize is just how brilliant this whole thing was.
1. We showed the Chinese we can also blast satellites if we choose to (deterrence). 2. We did so without littering up space like they did. 3. We destroyed a potential security risk. 4. We used a reasonable enough cover story to allow China and Russia to complain, but not feel the need to publicly save face by ramping up their own efforts. 5. We eliminated a small but potenially nasty environmental safety concern. 6. WE SHOT A SATTELITE THAT WAS TRAVELING AT CLOSE TO 20,000 MPH OUT OF THE SKY! All in all, a good days work for our intelligence and military folks.
Comment: Well said, dkerfoot.
Comment: RE:
Posted By: DeJay @ 02/21/2008 8:38:27 AM
Comment: If I am not mistaken, when the Chinese shot down their satellite, the United States was the first in line to criticise the Chinese. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
This twit must be a Brit-buffoon (identified by spelling criticize as criticise) who has absolutely no trouble speaking through his rotten yellow teeth. Yo, twit, did you mind that the USA saved your quisling a** in World War II? Get some much needed dental care through your "superior" British health care system, and scrub the yellow stripe off your pathetic back.
Comment: Yo, ***, you don't know me. WWII was sixty years ago, you dumbass. If all you can do is complain about my spelling, then don't bother contributing anything to this thread. Everything you type shows how much of an idiot you really are.
Comment: Do you find it necessary to insult others with your comments? These forums are designed for intelligent conversation between intelligent people. Although I respect your right to insult others, I find that those who do so only demonstrate their own lack of qualifications to participate in these forums. Say something constructive.
Comment: eshuster: Interesting how you fail to direct your highly insightful, well-reasoned, rational, synoptic, and coherent priss-ship toward the likes of 1. jack113, 2. clikdawg, 3. sonsofliberty, and others who hate the USA. Your qualifications are so illuminating.
Comment: I once saw a 'strucutral integrity test' of an empty spherical fuel tank designed to carry monomethyl hydrazine for space applications - it was made of honeycomb titanium and superbly engineered. It was strapped onto the front of a rocket sled and hit against a concrete wall at 250+ miles per hour. When the tank hit the wall nothing happened to it - barely a scratch. If the same kind of fuel tank was used on this satellite (and we can't know for sure as it is a secret device) there is a very real chance that the fuel tank could survive reentry and boink something or somebody on the head. Also the technology of the tank construction, which is not trivial, would also be available for some unfriendly type's inspection.
Comment: For whatever the reasons for the pinpoint surgical strike...potential for toxic hydrazine exposure, safeguarding secret technology, or a clear demonstration of our abilities and resolve...then bravo for the USA, and screw you leftists, seditionists, and traitors.
Comment: So if Leftists are Seditionists and Traitors, what does that make the Rabid Right, Facists??? Get a grip dude, you should be asking intelligent questions about what your government is up to or you might as well put on the uniform and Goose-step right along with the rest of the blinded Nationalists running around this country. Thanks God the Facists will be voted out of office this year.
Comment: DITTO - Rock on Right wingers!!!
Comment: Any chance of damage or health concerns to any people is worth the action taken. I feel that there probably are top secret technologies to be protected also. I do not think this action was taken lightly and that we do not need to know all the things that are done in the name of security for out nation as long as it does not affect the security and safety of the rest of the world.
Comment: WELL SAID SIR:
Comment: "After the space shuttle Columbia was destroyed while re-entering the atmosphere in 1997." The Space Shuttle Columbia was destroyed on Feb. 1, 2003...
Comment: Its obvious that the neo cons used the satellite to test a offencive weapon. The same weapon that China used to destroy one of its satellites getting a lot U.S. propaganda for doing it.
What country would believe Bush and his fascist military establishment after the way he has lied and started blood for oil wars since being placed in office.
I hope the American public is training itself to live on tree bark because its to late now to change the course of what is about to come down on them before the year is out.
Comment: A year supply of food storage has been recommended for many decades now. We won't be eating tree bark in our house - we heeded the counsel and have our food storage. It's a great idea for many reasons.
Comment: I have to comment about the "reactors in space". Most satellites do not use nuclear reactors like the ones used in naval ships or for power production on earth. They are radioisotope thermoelectric generators, RTGs, which use the heat given off by radioactive decay to produce electrical power. It appears to be a minor detail but it the device is a lot smaller and works on different principles than a full fledge power plant. News week ... get the details right.
Comment: OR.....it's just us shooting down a potentially harmful satelite using the well designed technology we have developed. Good for us and great job USS Lake Erie! What if we did nothing and it DID hit a populated area or harm individuals or property, can you imagine the fallout from that? Get a grip.
Comment: C'mon guys -- what's the fun of being President if you can't order somethin' blown to smithereens ever' so often, and they kinda tol' you it cain't be Iran jes' yet? Fella has t'prove how big his ****s is, once't in awhile, y'know ...
Seriously, though -- thanks, Newsweek, for a first-rate analysis of this issue.
Comment: Bravo, Newsweek for being the first American news source that I have seen which did not take the official explanation of the mission hook, line, and sinker. I am glad that there are still news sources which question and critically analyze the information provided by the government rather than act as its propaganda arm. It is sad that every single news agency outside the US has reported the official explanation with more than a grain of salt, and almost none of the US news outlets did.
Comment: Bush does what any previous President sjould do when faced with a threat to the Nation's people. I salute the President and his policies. Why do you write articles slanted to bad mouth a patriot, the President. A "BUS" thaat weighs 5,000 pounds can't be much more than a 4 passenger car. A satellite on Orbit has used most of its fuel getting there. If the Hydrazine tank reaches 7,500 degrees, it has lost most of the fuel.I agree this was a show but if you are cowardly, you will back down to the Chinese. Our President is no coward, aand we are the greatest Nation on the planet so let's act that way! If you are like Harry Reid of anti-American fame you would write a cowardly letter like this!.
Comment: The fuel onboard is not used to reach orbit, its to make minute and precise adjustments while in orbit. Newsweek is dead on about the superheating comment - the heat of rentry will most certainly have an effect on the volatile fuel that our government claims to need to destroy in orbit. Thankfully concerned citizens are still reading books on 'witchcraft' topics such as thermodynamics and orbital mechanics that your beloved police state of the future will make no short order of burning in order to perpetuate ridiculous stories like these. This isn't a matter of backing down to the chinese, its about militarizing space, a whole new generation of first strike weaponry and putting the world back just a hair trigger away from Armageddon. Questioning the propaganda is patriotism sir, unless you are in favor of the classic Soviet version of the term which goes along the lines of serve the state blindly or die. The President is not a Patriot, he is guilty of treason and has betrayed everything noble this country once stood for.
Comment: I'm with you, and your technical comment is correct. The 'Hydrazine' tank was an excuse. It would have smoked on reentry, likely taking out much of the sattelite with it. This was about showing China and Russia that we can spank launched materials. We have over 100 Aegis cruisers with 40+ of those missiles per, and have also the Arleigh Burke Class destroyers that shoot the same. Since we can track space objects down to under the size of a golf ball now, out to well over 700 miles and plot them, this was just showing we can hit what we can see, with more systems than I had heretofore realized. (I retired from the USAF back in '95 and as such am a dinosaur on current tech.)
It tells Russia, China and any other ballistic missile nation that space is ours to control, literally. Since we abandoned the ABM treaty, I guess I have to figure the US is ready with appropriate systems to fight Reagan's "winnable" nuclear war. I guess it's all good fun until one nuke gets through. I have begged my Senators to not go along with the "Star Wars" crap as I felt it would force adversaries into a use it or lose it mindset. I just wonder who will shoot first now. Ivan thinks he has upgraded his Topol systems with manouver and penetration aids, but our last few tests out of Alaska seemed to hit the right object amongst the penaids.
You are right, it's a first strike capacity.
Comment: Please lets wake up before we have a New World Order in place and stand against a 4th Reich.
Our societies already look like a very sinister combination of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and 1984 by George Orwell. Fascism the new American dream ?
The war on terror has taken our civil liberties away before our eyes along with the American dream and the constitution.
It seems that America taking advantage of the new Martial laws is inevitable due to Bush's keeness to go to war with Iran. Hitler ruled Nazi Germany with the same terror tactics used to manipulate us post 9/11 so whatever the reason for the shooting down of this spy satellite be it increased surveillance, hiding advanced technology form China or Russia, Biological warfare, blocking off communication systems for the period of time it takes a country to committ atrocities to its population it certainly looks like we are at the tipping point in taking back or losing completely our rights and liberty, Get rid of the illegal federal reserve system and take back the controlled lives that we are living in. Impeach Cheney and vote Ron Paul for honesty and integrity.
Please look beyond the war on terror and the day to day fear we live with and see that we have infinate possibility to live without conflict - lets see how disconnected we have become from our own realites and demand our stepford wife like lives back.
Comment: Please lets wake up before we have a New World Order in place and stand against a 4th Reich.
Our societies already look like a very sinister combination of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and 1984 by George Orwell. Fascism the new American dream ?
The war on terror has taken our civil liberties away before our eyes along with the American dream and the constitution.
It seems that America taking advantage of the new Martial laws is inevitable due to Bush's keeness to go to war with Iran. Hitler ruled Nazi Germany with the same terror tactics used to manipulate us post 9/11 so whatever the reason for the shooting down of this spy satellite be it increased surveillance, hiding advanced technology form China or Russia, Biological warfare, blocking off communication systems for the period of time it takes a country to committ atrocities to its population it certainly looks like we are at the tipping point in taking back or losing completely our rights and liberty, Get rid of the illegal federal reserve system and take back the controlled lives that we are living in. Impeach Cheney and vote Ron Paul for honesty and integrity.
Please look beyond the war on terror and the day to day fear we live with and see that we have infinate possibility to live without conflict - lets see how disconnected we have become from our own realites and demand our stepford wife like lives back.
Comment: Anyone with a brain knows that the real reason we need to destroy this satellite is to prevent any other nation from learning the top secret machinery contained in it. The cost of destroying the satellite is small compated to the cost to the United States if the nature of this equipment is learned by other nations. We should be thankful that the United States has the technology to do such an amazing fete.
Comment: That's brilliant. Since its so likely anything of value would survive uncontrolled reentry, or because other nations possess reuseable spacecraft like the space shuttle to retrieve it from orbit. Last I checked the buran was being used as a novelty restaurant in Moscow, and the Soyuz (as well as its chinese derivatives) lack cargo space for much more than its occupants.
Comment: Since none of us have any idea what is actually on the satellite, it is rather foolish to assume it would burn up. No?
Of course, it is much easier to assume "they" are all a bunch of morons.
Comment: Read between the lines. This has nothing to do with toxic fuel and everything to do with the Chinese proving they have asat capabilities recently. After Bush has withdrawn from the treaties regarding the ban on abm's and the balance of conventional forces in europe - his latest genius move is to militarize and start an arms race in space. All of these treaties were in place to prevent world war 3, and this idiot pulls out of all of them in addition to lighting the powder keg in the middle east. History has reserved a place for this idiot, and in time, tragically it will be all too clear.
Comment: its powered by alien technology,it will cost less than 10 million to shoot down,the balance is Bush's retirement package
Comment: Fascinating. This is something I've often wondered about.
Comment: fascinating. this is something I've often wondered about.
Comment: Very interesting article... I'm curious to see what happens when they attempt to shoot down the USA 193.
Comment: Once again, we see typical Chinese rhetoric. It's apparently ok for the Chinese to shoot their satellite out of orbit as a means of testing a missle's destructive capability, but its not ok for the US to shoot its satellite that would otherwise cause harm upon falling to Earth. You all need to wake up. You should all be more concerned that China is launching missles into space, not the US. Red China wants to take over the world. I applaud the US for flexing its muscles in China's face.
Comment: If I am not mistaken, when the Chinese shot down their satellite, the United States was the first in line to criticise the Chinese. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Comment: The difference is altitude. The wreckage of the much higher Chinese satellite stays in orbit for many years. The wreckage of the American satellite falls out of orbit within 48 hrs. The debris field was the only American objection. Even flecks of paint traveling at 17,000 miles per hour can cause serious damage to other spacecraft.
Comment: If I remember correctly, when the Chinese shot down their satellite, the United States was the first in line to criticise the Chinese. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Comment: If I remember correctly, when the Chinese shot down their satellite, the United States was the first in line to criticise the Chinese. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
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