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MIDDLE EAST

Good for the Jews?

Hillary Clinton's surrogates are questioning Obama's commitment to U.S.-Israel relations.

By Michael Hirsh and Dan Ephron | NEWSWEEK
Mar 3, 2008 Issue

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  • Posted By: Tramble @ 05/11/2008 7:33:14 AM

    Comment: I read the Paris Match article and if one understands how Match does their interviews, you know it's Q & A. Unless the one conducting the interview asks a specific question (e.g. "What are your views regarding the state of Israel?") there's no opportunity for the person being interviewed to discuss a topic. Reading Newsweek's comments about Senator Obama's deliberate omissions in Paris March regarding Israel seemed to be a mis-Match with the way Paris Match writes their interviews.

  • Posted By: Bilbo983 @ 03/30/2008 11:33:39 PM

    Comment: This is America. And America is made up of diverse people with all kinds of roots. and as American Patriots, Americans put America first before their interests in other secondary foreign nations. And Americans know that only a united America can keep Americans secured and safe. Why are some so-called Americans insist on dividing Americans? Are these dividors being bribed to divide and weaken America? As Americans, we will unite, and make a choice of the best candidate who will get us put of our economic mess, and lead this nation with integrity, wisdom, inspiration, and hope, and not worry theat our new Prsident will flip-flop and sell off America to the highest bidders.

    My fellow Americans, let's stand together and save America from the very admistration that has been selling off America with deceit and lies., and panderting to the interests of foreign nations for so many years.

  • Posted By: realpages @ 03/20/2008 10:15:26 AM

    Comment: 'One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it
    up' while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months! Maybe I missed something!'
    ... I.B. Wright

    'White America, the U S of KKK A'
    ... I.B. Wright

    'Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect.'
    ... B. Obama

    'I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus, but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.'
    .... B Obama

  • Posted By: WindmillJouster @ 03/19/2008 7:03:15 PM

    Comment: As a gay Jewish college professor, I find myself torn by this piece. Notwithstanding the acts of oppression committed against the Palestinian people, I will not waver in my support for Israel. But I will continue to advocate loudly and strongly for a just Middle East peace settlement. And I will not deviate from my opinion that Barack Obama is the man who can bring this about.

  • Posted By: lucie @ 03/19/2008 4:59:40 PM

    Comment: Ari Berman wrote an extensive piece on this smear issue for the Nation, which is still available. In the piece, he quotes Isralei journalist, Shmuel Rosner, Washington correspondent for the Israeli daily Ha'aretz: "I can tell you for a fact people from the Clinton campaign are calling reporters and asking them to pay attention to things involving Obama and Israel," He also reports that The NYT and NPR have both interviewed Lasky as an "expert", without qualification. Political Punch, ABC's blog has constantly slammed Obama, early and often. As far back as last March 4th, Political Punch wrote a piece that ended with these words: "As campaigns compete for Jewish support, it would be political malpractice for rivals (sic) campaigns to not send this blog entry around to big pro-Israel donors.??? The quote was a reference to a blog - which was in turn based on a casual conversation (unverfied). I'm not making this up. This was presented as journalism

  • Posted By: Horusbedhetys @ 03/19/2008 3:37:10 PM

    Comment: The president of the USA should do what is right for the USA, not any other country. Should any US candidate have to pass a litmus test on the rights of Israel or any other country? No. At this point in time, Israel does exist, religious mania aside, it exists; if any feels they exist because of a particular god, then they should have faith that their god will allow them to continue to exist. Neither Barack, Hillary or McCain should have to cater to anyone except the American people.

  • Posted By: Karenn1 @ 03/19/2008 9:20:38 AM

    Comment: See how you are than you wonder why. God don't give out trust deeds,get real the U N did. Carter is right. Why should american soldiers die for Israel it should be the U N problem.But lobbyist poison anyone who doe not agree. What your doing in gaza is inmoral.

  • Posted By: USA Gone Crazy @ 03/18/2008 1:37:24 AM

    Comment: You visit your house of worship, and the clergy man or woman launches into a tirade about your country belonging to rich white people. You visit next week, and he or she spews forth venomous statements that America got what she deserved on Septemeber 11, 2001, and this diatribe is peppered with the statement, "G-d damn America!", forcefully and repeatedly. You visit yet again and the clergy man or woman is riling against a candidate because he or she does not have the same skin color as most of those present.

    When do you stop going to that house of worship?

    For Obama, it has taken 20 years. Yes, Obama has been affiliated with his racist, anti-American minister for 20 years! The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the man who officiated at Obama's marriage and baptized his children, has been preaching against whites, against America, and in praise of anti-Semite and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan over and over and over again. After hearing such messages, any intelligent, concerned, thinking, self-respecting individual would immediately distance him/herself from such dissertations and the one making them. But not Obama! Now, when the heat is on and he does not want to lose his possible nomination, he denounces Wright. Yet even in his denouncement, he praises Wright for having done "much good", including "bringing me (Obama) to Christianity". (What was he before?) Well, in my opinion that is like saying Hitler wasn't such a bad guy because he was kind to his pet dog.

    Unfortunately, something of this magnitude, which should have stopped Obama's candidacy on the very basis of his anti-American sentiment alone, has not damaged him at all. We may blame the media, who has given Obama a virtual free-ride, but first we must blame ourselves for not doing, saying, writing, and in general propagating the message that Obama is not good for America as well as for the world as a whole. The future leader of this country needs to believe in this country! The next leader must be fair and open to all of our nation's races and religions. Just as we do not condone one who views pornography even if he says "I don't really like it", we cannot condone the actions of a man who sits week after week in a church that preaches hatred, intolerance, and anti-Americanism. No, it is time now to stop Obama before it is too late.

  • Posted By: jsu4193k @ 03/15/2008 6:59:45 PM

    Comment:
    I RESPECT ALL JEWS AND LOVE SOME OF THEM

    BUT SINCE WHEN DID THE LEVEL OF JEWISH SUKING UP BECOME A YARDSTICK FOR "ELECTING" OUR PRESIDENT"

    SINCE WHEN DID OUR COUNTRY BECOME THE UNITED STATES OF THE JEWS?

    LAST TIME I CHECKED, THIS IS STILL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OBAMA LOVES THIS NATION DEARLY.

  • Posted By: skipndeebar @ 03/07/2008 4:11:02 PM

    Comment: Is it really important whether Obama affirm's Israel's right to exist? I mean if he did, would it mean anything. According to Ali Abunimah, in his Electronic Intifada, Barack supported Palestine, but Ali complains that after he ran for U.S. Senate he had to back off the Palestine talk...from an incident in 2004 Ali Abunimah writes about Obama "I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front." He referred to my activism [Ali Abunimah], including columns I was contributing to the The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy, "Keep up the good work!" [encouragement from Obama]

    Obama told a group in Chicago he supports a ban on guns; not gun control...an outright ban; then in Idaho says he supports gun ownership rights. He gave a speech against the war in Iraq and then went on Face the Nation and said he support's Bush's position on the war and now is claiming he was always against it. He supports NAFTA to Canada and is against NAFTA to Ohioans. He would not even vote to ban sex shops from operating in the vicinity of grade schools, day care and churches. Chose instead to vote PRESENT. Well I guess that makes him worthy of being PRESENT ... I mean PRESIDENT.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 03/06/2008 2:42:39 AM

    Comment: WE NEED TO CRUSH AL QUEDA IN PAKISTAN AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

    LET US REMEMBER BERG. I AM NOT JEWISH, HOWEVER I FEEL THAT WE MUST NEVER FORGET.
    IT IS WORTH THAT yOUNG ARABS AND JEWS FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS START FORMING GROUPS THAT ENCOURAGE THE INTERACTION BETWEEN JEWS ARABS MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. SOMETHING LIKE AN NGO. ANyONE FROM ANy BACKGROUND CAN CONTRIBUTE. WITH ONE OBJECTIVE IN MIND. FRIENDLy RELATIONS. NO PRESSURE TO SET FOREIGN POLICy , JUST GETTING THE TWO ADVERSARIES IN THE SAME ROOM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WILL BE IN AMERICA'S AND THE WORLD'S BEST INTEREST. . THAT IS THE FIRST STEP .

    WHEN yOU TRy AND IMPOSE yOUR WILL "ALL OF A SUDDEN" ON THE MASSES, THEN ASSAASSINATIONS LIKE THOSOE OF RABIN, BHUTTO AND KENNEDy ARE INEVITABLE.

    "WHEN ANy ONE INDIVIDUAL BEOMES LARGER THAN THE CAUSE THEy ARE CHAMPIONING THEN THEy THEMSELVES BECOME AN OBSTALE TO THEIR OWN CAUSE" EDDIWHERE 2008

  • Posted By: edwardnow @ 03/05/2008 11:55:24 AM

    Comment: Even the Articles name suggest something sinister and I feel it is. Firstly lets look at the interest of the Jewish community. Are they experiencing disproportionate poverty, arrest rates, discrimination? Are Jews disadvantaged and require special assistance? Are Jews under represented in the societies elite? Of course not! So what is it that Jews are looking for. Loyalty to Israel, more specifically support for Zionism.

    Why would we elect an American President on the basis of 2% of the population wanting to maintain foreign state. We would not support Chinese lobbying for foreign aide to China, or Pakistanis supporting the defense of Pakistan. Why do we tolerate Americans driving out foreign policy to another state to which they alone because of Religious or Ethnic status are granted automatic citizenship. I see this as a conflict of interest at the least, and at worst disloyalty to United States Interest.
    Jewish citizens have been blessed in America, they do not need any special help to achieve "Life Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness" . Instead they are insisting on American support for a foreign country, that attempts to segregate its citizens based to maintain a majority of there religion within the country. Israel does not resemble America and certainly does not represent a role model in the region. Israel is in a constant state of conflict, it has an endless list of Human rights abuses.
    For the most part Israel can be considered an Apartheid State. It simply occupies areas with the people of undesirable ethnicity and religion, rather than give them equal rights and freedom. This is not like America. This powder keg has been creating insurgents and terrorist for decades as a result of discriminatory policies and endless military engagements. At some time I hope Jewish America wakes up ,and focuses on putting America first. It is not worth putting bringing America into a religous and racial conflict that not only spawns international terrorist, but cost America hundreds of billions of dollars. Israel may have been an ill conceived nation, but it ought to maintain itself as all other nations on earth do. If the people in Israel wish peace they can integrate and establish equality, like America, South Africa, and many other nations have done in the past.
    The final evil of this disastrous policy has been the encouragement of Muslim hate. There are many who make there living preaching the hate of Muslims whom have lived in America peacefully for generations. This extension of the Arab Israeli religious conflict into America has been tragic. A country that prides itself on tolerance has the likes of "Michael Savage" on the airwaves. People like this preach what sounds like Nazi propaganda targeted at Muslims. He demonizes them in every way possible. The constitution protects free speech and religious freedom, but it is up to the citizens to protect our sense of decency.

    • Posted By: Lanos @ 03/15/2008 10:23:04

      Comment: Very bold comment in a world where the truth has no place. We have seen and condemned South African apartheid, Tibetian Occupation, Nazism, Faschism, Slavery, Segregation, Ethnic cleansing. Yet, all this things are happening to the Palestinians, every day under Israeli occupation, and the world says and does nothing. Resistance is branded as terrorism and critism as anti-semitism. Why is Israel above the law?

  • Posted By: holyroller2 @ 03/04/2008 9:00:49 PM

    Comment: "NOBAMA INTHE WHITEHOUSE" NOBAMA"
    just say NOBAMA PERIOD

    • Posted By: Tinka @ 03/17/2008 22:54:34

      Comment: You are absolutely correct, NOBAMA>

  • Posted By: holyroller2 @ 03/04/2008 8:55:26 PM

    Comment: fog80 you can't hide what you are, I'm proud to be a Christian are you not proud of your faith.
    Then tell us what you truly are.
    holyroller2

  • Posted By: fog80 @ 03/04/2008 8:37:44 PM

    Comment: serious question.

    everyone seems to accept that jews can come back and claim israel. how would americans feel if england came back and claimed the east coast as their own land?

    • Posted By: migden @ 03/18/2008 04:13:47

      Comment: Read the Book of Isaiah 60:9;61:6. When the Children of Israel return to their own land it will be to possesss and occupy all that was promised to Abraham.

  • Posted By: fog80 @ 03/04/2008 8:15:02 PM

    Comment: you know what, this article makes me want to vote for obama even more. what is wrong with a muslim summit? maybe that is what we need to curb the terrorist activities in the world. god knows that blowing up iraq isnt doing it.

  • Posted By: dchappy@hotmail.com @ 03/04/2008 9:11:36 AM

    Comment: why in american politics israel comes in ? are the American CHRISTIANS so stupid that this israel has put it in all the mess over the years eating the ration of the Americans enjoying the extra money of the Americans where as the AMERICANs die on road sides without food and health care . what is this why should the bloody USA President has to suck the *** and balls if israel why not kick them and tell them enough is enough, and not even look at them till they stop to beg and live on their own. bloody hell. DC HAPPY

  • Posted By: harriscrl3 @ 03/04/2008 8:42:51 AM

    Comment: The question I want to know is Obama good for anyone? I mean he is not good for Jews, He is not good for Catholics, He is not good for Latinos, He is not good for Blacks, He is not good for Whites. He is not good for working class democrats he is not good for older democrats, he's not good for women. I mean the list just goes on and on. Hillary Clinton on the other hand is seen as good for everyone and she divides people. But no one cares if she is not good for Blacks as long as she is good for the other groups.

    Obama is fair and when you are fair you are NOT going to always be 100% for one group because these groups are in conflict you take each situation as it comes and you look at it and make your decision then. They are AA who dont care for Obama's class based Affirmative Action. But if you mull it over in your mind you will see that its the fair thing to do. People are just running on emotions they are not thinking what makes better sense what is fair to all. You are NOT just suppose to be the president of one group. You are President of ALL groups and if you are the President of ALL groups you cant 100% on one group side all the time. And to expect that imo is a bit selfish. People need to stop being guided by emotions and try using their heads. Thats why Obama is a President of the future the unfortunate thing is some dont seem to want to go to the furture.

    Carol

  • Posted By: sarasara @ 03/03/2008 1:15:21 PM

    Comment: Jews, Beware Of Hussan Obama!

    Anyone who follows Al Jazeera English will be aware of the nausiating spectacle of a promo ad repeated a number of times daily showing a grinning Jimmy Carter exulting in anti-Israeli sentiment as he says ???People say it???s a fence....It???s not a fence, it???s a wall!???

    This ad should awaken Jews to a type of liberal-left bias against Israel which I believe that Obama by his past associations shares.

    Out of the mouth of babes!

    Mr James Carter, son of former President Jimmy Carter has just appeared today Mon 3rd March on Al Jazeera English News as a spokesman for his organization:

    ???The International Campaign Against The Siege Of Gaza???
    http://endgazasiege.net/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=2

    He said that "the balance of terror was equal on both sides" and that he "hoped that America would elect a new President like his father who would treat both the Hamas and Zionist terrorists equally."

    Is this Obamas view?

    Obama: The Jimmy Carter Connection: watch video:
    http://www.kowabunga.org/2008/01/obama_the_jimmy_carter_connect.html

    • Posted By: inter2 @ 03/03/2008 17:14:46

      Comment: While 1.7% of the US population are being cautious of Obama, may be the other 98.3% who are not Jewish might want to think about important issues, like health care and the economy.

    • Posted By: dkfromdc @ 03/03/2008 15:30:46

      Comment: Guilty by association? That's a weak argument. Obama also has Dennis Ross as an advisor.

      • Posted By: Tinka @ 03/17/2008 23:02:08

        Comment: Obama's judgement was poor. For such an intelligent man and He did not know what Pastor Wright was all about. Twenty years as a member of a congregation and He did not know; You better tell this to story to somebody else. Well , how would be his judgement as a President when he needs to take drastic measures, when he has to make hard decisions; he does not has 20 years to make a decision. Mr. Obama lacks sound judgement to become this nation's president.

  • Posted By: sarasara @ 03/03/2008 1:14:34 PM

    Comment: Jews, Be Scared Of Hussain Obama!

    Anyone who follows Al Jazeera English will be aware of the nausiating spectacle of a promo ad repeated a number of times daily showing a grinning Jimmy Carter exulting in anti-Israeli sentiment as he says ???People say it???s a fence....It???s not a fence, it???s a wall!???

    This ad should awaken Jews to a type of liberal-left bias against Israel which I believe that Obama by his past associations shares.

    Out of the mouth of babes!

    Mr James Carter, son of former President Jimmy Carter has just appeared today Mon 3rd March on Al Jazeera English News as a spokesman for his organization:

    ???The International Campaign Against The Siege Of Gaza???
    http://endgazasiege.net/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=2

    He said that "the balance of terror was equal on both sides" and that he "hoped that America would elect a new President like his father who would treat both the Hamas and Zionist terrorists equally."

    Is this Obamas view?

    Obama: The Jimmy Carter Connection: watch video:
    http://www.kowabunga.org/2008/01/obama_the_jimmy_carter_connect.html

  • Posted By: inter2 @ 03/03/2008 12:22:23 AM

    Comment: Watching Obama and Clinton say they would do nothing to upset Israel is so fascinating.

    The future would-be president of the most powerful country in the world has to first satisfy the will of one of the smallest countries in the world (only about twice the size of Rhode Island) with only 7 million people, before they can become president. Wow, thats mind blowing!!

    Just goes to show that you don't need military superiority to bring the most powerful country to its knees. All you need is AIPAC.

    • Posted By: dkfromdc @ 03/03/2008 15:33:47

      Comment: Also weak analysis. It's not that the president must satisfy Israel, but s/he must satisfy American constituents. The vast majority of the population ardently supports Israel, thus the premise of your argument is flawed.

  • Posted By: JustSpirit @ 03/02/2008 11:08:10 PM

    Comment: the fact that our next president HAS to be friendly to Israel further shows how deep Israel is in the American political machine. Why are we in Iraq? Why do we have a progressive tax system?? Why do we have the Federal Bank controlling American dollars??
    We need less of Israel in our government - what will it take to stop the Israel lobby from black mailing our government ?

    • Posted By: Lanos @ 03/15/2008 10:09:41

      Comment: There's nothing we can do, each critism against Israel will quickly be branded as anti-semitism and therefore they will stay in control of and above the law. The occupation and theft of Palestine is the cause of Israels problems and the reason why over 10,000 palestinians are sitting today in Israeli jails, without trial, without charge. USA, be a friend to Israel, ask them to finally behave in a humane and lawful manner.

  • Posted By: Kristian08 @ 03/02/2008 11:03:06 PM

    Comment: Obama is the only saviour left for the Christians who are fighting a war that is not ours. We have to finally side with Muslims let them take Israel (Palestine) for them and make long lasting peace between Christians and Muslims.

  • Posted By: persephone @ 03/02/2008 2:13:09 PM

    Comment: Let's not forget that Hitler was elected on the same platform of unity, adding his anti-semitic program later. Obama's sarcastic answer to Hillary about "denounce and reject" proved to me that he thinks himself untouchable.

    • Posted By: dkfromdc @ 03/03/2008 15:26:07

      Comment: This is the most ridiculous comment I've ever read.

  • Posted By: Alamerica @ 03/02/2008 3:04:47 AM

    Comment: The Israel-Palestan conflict is a time nuke bomb on a mega scale. When it bombs, we all have to disappear with it. A quasi-Muslim President such as Obama may either break the deadlock or ignite the bomb. Are Americans voters ready entering the political casino and gamble on Obama's CHANGE card? This could be a life-death decision.

  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 03/01/2008 7:49:17 AM

    Comment: If it looks like a pig, oinks like a pig, and stinks like a pig, it's a pig Hussein Obama is a pig, uh.... I mean mohammed.

    NOBAMA!!!

  • Posted By: getzel @ 03/01/2008 7:25:01 AM

    Comment: War ends We win: when we pass a law that makes the minimum price of gasoline at the pumps: $1.75/gallon; billion dollar/million barrel per day ethanol stills can not be built without protection from OPEC monopoly pricing rusting out our new stills: OPEC could lower gasoline back to 80 cents per gallon to put the ethanol stills out of business so $1.75 per gallon will break the OPEC monopoly and bring the free market back to the fuel for cars market .

    The ethanol investors do not build ethanol distilleries because monopoly OPEC would lower the price to rust out their billion dollar million barrel a day ethanol still. Brazil is energy independent: ethanol; All their cars come built running on ethanol; Archer Daniel Midland made millions on $1.00 gallon ethanol in the 1990s; that trumps any canard/invalid objection to ethanol. Use Cellulose ethanol, not corn ethanol.

    With all the cars running on ethanol; the price of oil will collapse and the Moslem hordes will no longer have the funds we used to give them from gasoline sales to finance the war against us. Soon the world will care as much about the Arabian sand as they do Rwanda.

    Dollars to Arabs for oil, then the weapons manufactures take most of the dollars from Arabs for weapons; KGB and intelligence services then engage in manipulating ethnic masses. The KGB is the marketing team for the Comuless Moscow Weapons Company,,,see KGB handbook on manipulating ethnic masses by Getzel. The old KGB: Kick up trouble, Go sell weapons , Be in a nice long war; sell lots of weapons...You finance the war against The West every day at the gasoline pump.

    Arabs and Persian Sharia people are at war with The West because Arabs and Persian Sharia people believe Islam can not survive against a free market, free speech to criticize Islam repetitive Republic. Yes, Arabs and Persian Sharia people believe Islam is doomed to the trash heap unless freedom to criticize Islam and democracy are eliminated. That is why they send suicide murderers and attack the West. Propaganda, the big lie???

    Arab, if only Israel???is only an excuse, propaganda, for Islamic terror; as we see that wherever the Mohammedans bump against another culture the Mohammedans say the same thing they say about Israel. In India: same thing???in Kosovo: same thing???In Israel: same thing. In Darfor: same thing. In Thailand: same thing, the Philipines: same thing. Wherever the Moslems are contiguous with another people: The Moslems say the same thing they say about Israel: If only???Sharia???and no freedom of speech to criticize Islam???

  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 02/29/2008 11:13:19 PM

    Comment: All the Obamamohammeds keep wanting PROOF he is a muslim. First, this is not a court of law, reasonable doubt is not the standard in debate. However, there is so much evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that it would be quite unreasonable not to have strong suspicion that he in fact is a mohammed. To not agree, really means that it is not an issue with you, whether he is or is not. As for anyone that would be concerned if Obama in fact is a mohammed, then there are dozens of events and relationships that definately give that impression. As for my feelings, I think it would be foolish and very potentially dangerous to even consider electing him as Commander-In-Chief. Does anyone really want to take that risk? Vote with reason, vote for love for your country, vote for experience, vote for strength, VOTE NOBAMA!!!

    Good luck Sen. Clinton

    NOBAMA!!!

    • Posted By: georgiatech18 @ 03/18/2008 04:57:52

      Comment: you are an idiot. Go back to that kkk meeting with more stupid comments

  • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 10:31:37 PM

    Comment: War ends We win: when we pass a law that makes the minimum price of gasoline at the pumps: $1.75/gallon; billion dollar/million barrel per day ethanol stills will not be built without protection from OPEC monopoly pricing rusting out our new stills. This war is only a phony weapons deal.

    My view is that Osama B L and Mughniyeh et al should be refered to as "mercenary marketing directors for various government owned weapons manufacturers parading as a religious persons";( my description fits better than theirs & who would believe them if we did not promote them as religious?) no English definition of "religious person" includes flying planes into buildings. true not true, who cares; follow this strategy: war Ends We Win.

    The ethanol investors do not build because monopoly OPEC would lower the price to rust out their billion dollar million barrel a day still. Brazil is energy independent: ethanol; All their cars come built running on ethanol; Archer Daniel Midland made millions on $1.00 gallon ethanol in the 1990s; that trumps any canard/invalid objection to ethanol. Use Cellulose ethanol, not corn ethanol.
    Dollars to Arabs for oil, then the weapons manufactures take the dollars from Arabs for weapons; KGB and intelligence services then engage in manipulating ethnic masses. The KGB is the marketing team for the Comuless Moscow Weapons Company,,,see KGB handbook on manipulating ethnic masses by Getzel. The old KGB: Kick up trouble, Go sell weapons , Be in a nice long war; sell lots of weapons...

  • Posted By: MChieco @ 02/29/2008 10:23:01 PM

    Comment: Tony Reszko is a guy who is on The Woods Fund board. What is the Woods Fund? A group who has sent money to Hezbollah. Tony Reszko retains his Syrian nationality. Rezko, a real estate developer and fundraiser for several politicians, including Obama, Gov. Rod Blagojevich and the late Cook County Board President John Stroger, goes on trial Monday on charges he used his connections to allegedly further a scheme that involved kickbacks in exchange for contracts that were pocketed or paid to others to make contributions to politicians, including Obama

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 02/29/2008 23:08:06

      Comment: So are you making accusations that the MESSIAH would in any way associate himself with people of questionable character? You better be careful. Making comments like that about a SAVIOR might make ALLAH pissed. Then what you gonna do. FARRAKHAN and his bow-tie bandits will also probably find your comments insensitive. How could you question HOPE and CHANGE?

      NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: Horusbedhetys @ 03/19/2008 15:52:59

        Comment: You are so obviously ignorant and full of hate; any decent Christians repudiate & rebuke you. Read your history. All of the wars of the last 300 years were started by and perpetuated by Christians. The problem is not Muslims, Jews or even Christians, but hate-filled morons like yourself, using Christianity for your own twisted purpose. Your own words condemn you to a living hell

  • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 7:48:59 PM

    Comment: War ends We win: when we pass a law that makes the minimum price of gasoline at the pumps: $1.75/gallon; billion dollar/million barrel per day ethanol stills will not be built without protection from OPEC monopoly pricing rusting out our new stills.

    The ethanol investors do not build ethanol distilleries because monopoly OPEC would lower the price to rust out their billion dollar million barrel a day ethanol still. Brazil is energy independent: ethanol; All their cars come built running on ethanol; Archer Daniel Midland made millions on $1.00 gallon ethanol in the 1990s; that trumps any canard/invalid objection to ethanol. Use Cellulose ethanol, not corn ethanol.

    With all the cars running on ethanol; the price of oil will collapse and the Moslem hordes will no longer have the funds we used to give them from gasoline sales to finance the war against us. Soon the world will care as much about the Arabian sand as they do Rwanda.

    Dollars to Arabs for oil, then the weapons manufactures take most of the dollars from Arabs for weapons; KGB and intelligence services then engage in manipulating ethnic masses. The KGB is the marketing team for the Comuless Moscow Weapons Company,,,see KGB handbook on manipulating ethnic masses by Getzel. The old KGB: Kick up trouble, Go sell weapons , Be in a nice long war; sell lots of weapons...

    • Posted By: inter2 @ 02/29/2008 22:45:14

      Comment: You are so naive.

      What do you think will happen to support for Israel from western countries once the Oil is no longer important?

      lt will disappear. No more western troops in the middle east, no more naval fleets in the Persian Gulf, no more foreign aid to Israel, and no more selling weapons systems to Israel. Even the Zionists will probably leave and go back to their countries of origin.

      • Posted By: dkfromdc @ 03/03/2008 15:28:03

        Comment: Your analysis is wrong.

  • Posted By: inter2 @ 02/29/2008 7:48:22 PM

    Comment: To getzel:

    I am trying to get around your anti-semitic views towards Muslims so I can discuss facts with you.

    And talking about facts, why don't you ever mention the six million Jews killed by Christians in Europe?
    Or the Crusades against Muslims and Jews? Or the Inquisition? Christianity has the most violent history towards the Jews. But you don't mention any of it?

    Any by the way, the Romans were the major cause of Jewish diaspora, not Muslims. Jewish communities were expelled from Judea by Rome and sent to various Roman provinces in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa long before Islam.

    More facts:

    As I said before, only 2 of Israel's 9 Presidents were born in the area now called Israel.

    7 of Israel's 12 Prime Ministers were born outside the middle east, some were PMs more than once.

    At least 9 foreign affairs ministers were born outside the middle east, again some serving more than once.

    Jewish population in Palestine in 1922, 11%.

    Jewish population in Palesitne after WWII, 33%.

    Are you starting to get the point now?

    Were did all the Jews come and how did they get there?
    Simple, they were illegally migrated into Palestine by the pro-Zoinist movements. From Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Europe, USA, Africa, etc ....

    The powers that created Israel, runs Israel and supports Israel are not indigenious to the middle east.

    This is why Israel is different from the other illegally created modern nations in the middle east. And this is why the other middle eastern countries do not accept

    • Posted By: getzel @ 03/01/2008 06:18:15

      Comment: you attribute comments to me that do not exist. Inter2 simply lies

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 21:41:42

      Comment: You invent percentages

      • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:00:25

        Comment: You reject the UN decision to create Israel out of the Ottoman empire; but support, no doubt, other UN decision. You acknowledge a large Jewish population in Israel and that the Arab workers came to work for the Jews and stayed to become known as palesteins in the 1960s. You acknowledge the Jews were called the Palesteinians until Israeli became the term. You reject peace and embrace suicide murder, and missiles at towns.

        • Posted By: inter2 @ 02/29/2008 22:33:56

          Comment: So you finally acknowledge that even the Jews were known as Palestinians.

          • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 02/29/2008 23:19:51

            Comment: You seem to know a few things about Islam. Did you know that their prophet was a well known pedophile and they worship a fallen angel as god. Mohammeds pervert the truth about Abraham and try to hijack GOD's promise. They like to hijack planes too.

            NOBAMA!!!

            • Posted By: inter2 @ 03/01/2008 01:11:52

              Comment: Did you know that Abraham's God told Abraham to kill his only Son and Abraham was going to do it? What sort of God would make you do this and what sort of father would agree to kill his only Son?

              And by the way, Jews, Christians and Muslims all pray to the same God, the God of Abraham.

              • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 03/01/2008 07:44:18

                Comment: Neither Jews not Christians pray to a moon goddess, named Allah. That is what mohohammed usrd to base his god on. We have nothing in our faith's common to muslim filth. Go eat a ham sandwich.

                NOBAMA!!!

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 21:39:33

      Comment: The Jews came back to there homes that you yourself acknowledge are theirs

      • Posted By: inter2 @ 02/29/2008 22:32:19

        Comment: So you admit that the majority of Israel Jews came to the middle east from somewhere else.

        • Posted By: getzel @ 03/01/2008 06:17:27

          Comment: you attribute comments to me that do not exist. Inter2 simply lies

  • Posted By: maymok @ 02/29/2008 5:56:04 PM

    Comment: Obama is definitely good for the Jews. He has been working to improve the historic Black and Jew relations. Always remember, most blacks are Christians and have a historical relationship with the Jews. Because of their history of prosecution, slavery and holocaust, Blacks and Jews are closer to one another than any other ethnic groups in the USA.

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 23:12:02

      Comment: PLEASE Before you vote, take a look at this ------------- More than from speeches, we can see where the candidates real values come from.
      The church we attend or don???t attend, and the company we keep speaks volumes about our character and values.
      Here is Barack Obama???s Church: Trinity Union Church of Christ in Chicago, look it up on [www.tucc.org]
      The head pastor of TUCC and Obamas spiritual advisor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. praises Louis Farrakhan, and the Nation of Islam in the church magazine. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html - In 1982 Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, and the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.
      In return, Louis Farrakhan has endorsed presidential candidate Barack Obama, saying he is the ???hope of the entire world???.
      Obama claims ???I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form???. But why hasn???t Obama renounced the Trinity Union Church of Christ, or Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A.Wright? Praise for an anti-Semitic demagogue is not a minor difference or an intra-church issue. Wright is not just Obama's pastor, he's a key member of Obama's circle.
      Beyond the Farrakhan issue is the TUCC???s anti White, and Anti American mission. ???We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black??? and excludes all other races.
      [www.tucc.org]
      ???African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior??? This statement implies that African Centered thought is superior to European (code word for white), which is a contradiction of the statement itself. [www.tucc.org]
      Black conservative pundit Erik Rush said the church has embraced "things African above things American," and he claimed that this should be as alarming as a Republican presidential candidate "belonging to the Aryan Brethren Church of Christ."
      If Obama???s Actions matched his words, he would not be a member of this anti-Semitic church.

      Racism practiced by any color is still racism

      • Posted By: 1exnewyorker @ 03/01/2008 00:22:20

        Comment: Thank you for so eloquently expressing what I too believe.

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:36:56

      Comment: Sharia says Barahk Hussein Obama is a Moslem subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia. So why should all the Al Qaeda and Moslems come to this post to support PINKObumer, when everyone else with his status as a turn coat is subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia.

      Something is rotten in Denmark.

  • Posted By: inter2 @ 02/29/2008 4:41:02 PM

    Comment: Oh, and by the way getzel, If you don't believe that Israel was filled with people from outside the middle east, look at Israel's Presidents.

    They asked a German to be presient, Albeit Einstein. He turned it down.

    They also asked a Hungarian. He turned it down.

    Their first president was Weizmann, born in Russia and later moved to England.

    Second president, born in the Ukraine.

    Third president, born in Ukraine.

    fourth president, born in Ukraine.

    None of the above people were born in the middle east.

    The fifth president was born in middle east, but the sixth president was born in Ireland.

    In fact, only 2 of Israel's 9 Presients were born in the region that is now called Israel ! And only three were even born in the middle east.

    The Israeli Law Of Return states that ANY Jew can become an Israeli citizen. No matter where your from or what your enthic origin or race is, if you religion is Jewish you can move to Israel and become Israeli, or even become president.

    The Zionist movement in europe, and later in the middle east, used the Jewish religion as a way to connect to ancient Hebrews and justify taking land from the Arabs.

    But the fact is, modern Jews have many different ethnic backgrounds and most don't have any ethnic connection to the ancient Hebrews.

    Israel is filled with a majority of non-middle eastern people. It was stolen from middle eastern people by foreigners for foreigners.

    The locals want their land back !

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:01:55

      Comment: The Jews came back to there homes that you yourself acknowledge are theirs.

      You reject the UN decision to create Israel out of the Ottoman empire; but support, no doubt, other UN decision. You acknowledge a large Jewish population in Israel and that the Arab workers came to work for the Jews and stayed to become known as palesteins in the 1960s. You acknowledge the Jews were called the Palesteinians until Israeli became the term. You reject peace and embrace suicide murder, and missiles at towns.

      You invent percentages

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:32:10

      Comment: In 1948, the Sharia Moslem countries of the middle east all expelled the Jewish inhabitants and stole their houses and land. These Jews were sent to Israel by their former Arab host countries, where they lived as Dhimmi, to settle Israel. Now comes inter2lies to say he is shocked shocked that Jews reclaimed their land; and pretends he never heard of dhimmi and the Jews having their property stolen by the Arab counties and being sent to settle Israel???that is an accurate representation of the actual market conditions.

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 17:46:02

      Comment: Inter2 is the land thief representative:

      Yes Moslems rape, pillage, murder, and expel people from their land and then move in the houses they stole, and then say: look we are a majority here.

      See Lebanon and what the Moslem did to the Christians there between 1979 and 2000: Yes Moslems Rape, pillage, murder, and expel people from their land and then move in the houses they stole, and then say: look we are a majority here.

      See Kosovo and what the Moslem did to the Christians there between 1990 and 2000: Yes Moslems rape, pillage, murder, and expel people from their land and then move in the houses they stole, and then say: look we are a majority here.

      See Iraq and what the Moslem did to the Christians, and other Moslems there between 2001 and 2008: Yes Moslems rape, pillage, murder, and expel people from their land and then move in the houses they stole, and then say: look we are a majority here.

      Look at Israel with a continuous Jewish presence since 1313 BC, 3300 years Jews are in Israel. The Moslems in Israel move in and have no deed and claim they own. Jews Own Israel since 2000 Years before Mo was born.

      Israel had a capital I Israel at the time of Jesus. Bad people expelled them from their land; Jews simply reclaimed their land.

      Inter2 just lies about my post content and says whatever lie he feels like saying; true to Moslem Arab culture.

      • Posted By: fog80 @ 03/04/2008 20:32:55

        Comment: raping against the muslim sharia. you get stoned to death for that.

  • Posted By: Politico Journo @ 02/29/2008 3:12:23 PM

    Comment: Almost unanimously, American Jewish leaders say Obama's voting record and public pronouncements paint him squarely as an Israel supporter. "Senators Clinton, Obama, McCain and Governor Huckabee have demonstrated their support for a strong U.S.-Israel relationship," AIPAC president Howard Friedman wrote to NEWSWEEK. (AIPAC says all three senators have strong congressional voting records on issues important to the U.S.-Israel relationship.)
    Sen. Clinton's "anythng to win" campaign has turned off so many folks that one has to wonder why she doesn't see that she constantly shoots herself in the foot and parts North.
    as for his stance on speaking to our enemies when appropriate, The truth is that Obama is dumb like a fox: He knows what most brilliant stratefgsts hold dear: "Know thy enemy."
    He is in favor of talking with whoever will talk because listening with both ears open, aided by intellgence, could give up a foot up in our foreign policy. A true fighter "floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee." ( Mohammah Ali)
    :Why shoud we vote for Sen. Obama? Nobel Peace Prize winner and holocaust Survivor, Eli Wiesel:, reminds us that despair can come from people . . . but hope also can come from a person.
    Texas Veterans for Obama JMB

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 23:14:18

      Comment:
      Here is Barack Obama???s Church: Trinity Union Church of Christ in Chicago, look it up on [www.tucc.org]
      The head pastor of TUCC and Obamas spiritual advisor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. praises Louis Farrakhan, and the Nation of Islam in the church magazine. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html - In 1982 Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, and the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.
      In return, Louis Farrakhan has endorsed presidential candidate Barack Obama, saying he is the ???hope of the entire world???.
      Obama claims ???I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form???. But why hasn???t Obama renounced the Trinity Union Church of Christ, or Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A.Wright? Praise for an anti-Semitic demagogue is not a minor difference or an intra-church issue. Wright is not just Obama's pastor, he's a key member of Obama's circle.
      Beyond the Farrakhan issue is the TUCC???s anti White, and Anti American mission. ???We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black??? and excludes all other races. [www.tucc.org]
      ???African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior??? This statement implies that African Centered thought is superior to European (code word for white), which is a contradiction of the statement itself. [www.tucc.org]
      Black conservative pundit Erik Rush said the church has embraced "things African above things American," and he claimed that this should be as alarming as a Republican presidential candidate "belonging to the Aryan Brethren Church of Christ."
      If Obama???s Actions matched his words, he would not be a member of this anti-Semitic church.

      Racism practiced by any color is still racism

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:44:57

      Comment: politico lunio: is delusional.

      Sharia says Barahk Hussein Obama is a Moslem subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia. So why should all the Al Qaeda and Moslems come to this post to support PINKObumer, when everyone else with his status as a turn coat is subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia.

      Something is rotten in Denmark.

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:38:40

      Comment: Sharia says Barahk Hussein Obama is a Moslem subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia. So why should all the Al Qaeda and Moslems come to this post to support PINKObumer, when everyone else with his status as a turn coat is subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia.

      Something is rotten in Denmark.

    • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 17:48:13

      Comment: Politico is quite the liar: just tell big lies and bigger lies and maybe the morons will believe you

    • Posted By: BabylonBlue @ 02/29/2008 16:32:16

      Comment: I certainly agree with your comments. However the point should be made that anyone who wins this election or any other election in the futre in the United States will always have good relations with the Isreal regardless. As long as the US supports Isreal every president, senator, ect... that will be in office in the united states government has to have good relations with Isreal. The United States gives over 3.2 billion dollars a year to Isreal and we all know this, it is no secret so why would anyone even need to have this debate. Even with Bush senior in office and he was the 1st to even mention the idea of the existance of a Palestinian state. So why are we sitting here even questioning this topic. All in our government support the state of Isreal, please can we move on to the next topic!!!

      • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:39:47

        Comment: babyface: Sharia says Barak Hussein Obama is a Moslem subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia. So why should all the Al Qaeda and Moslems come to this post to support PINKObumer, when everyone else with his status as a turn coat is subject to the maximum penalties weeded out by Sharia.

        Something is rotten in Denmark.

      • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 17:53:06

        Comment: Babyface: The subject is the continuous lies coming from you. twisted pathetic lies. Proof That PINKObama is a loser can be found in the posts of those that support him. All the Moslems and all the Americans that think HOPE & CHANGE means whatever they fanaticize it means.

        Research indicates there are 3, maybe 4 if you include congressmen, specific types of people that support PINKObumer.

        1. Hate themselves, and of course proclaim it is others that hate.
        2. Hate others, and of course proclaim it is others that hate.
        3. Most prevalent group: UDOPIANS: Characterized by bizarre manifestations of HOPE and CHANGE according to each individuals individual fantasy of utopia. UDOPIANS have the same side effects, not unlike alcoholics or drug addicts, they are in denial as to reality: that HOPE and CHANGE mean nothing; and yet those with UDOPIA feel HOPE & CHANGE means whatever they fanaticize it means. Each has the same basic politically correct response to those who try and point out they have UDOPIAN simplex: you are a neo-con or you hate or other similar politically correct accusations of the day. Someone points out: OBUMER you have UDOPIAN simplex: I see all the red flags of UDOPIA; same delusional HOPE for CHANGE answer every time.
        4. Congressmen, & their workers, who think PINKObumer is their: 4 more years of pork barrel: free meal ticket for their districts; no leadership with a clue to control congressional out of control spending.= easy re-election.

        • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 02/29/2008 18:49:17

          Comment: I would like to propose that, according to his own so called research, getzel may be an Obama supporter. Consider the evidence:

          getzel claims that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of Islamist extremists. As evidence to support this argument he says that no Muslims openly reject or criticize Islamist Fundamentalists or Islamist terrorists. Earlier I posted a quote from a Muslim scholar as evidence that this isn???t true. I will not repost it here but the scholar???s name is Abdal-Hakim Murad for anyone that cares to find it. I will however post these 2 web sites as further evidence:
          http://www.aifdemocracy.org/about/principles.php
          http://secularislam.org/blog/summit.php

          Also consider this interview with the AIFD founder concerning a PBS documentary that was pulled from airing:
          http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=123

          These groups, composed of Muslims and non Muslims, oppose Islamist terrorism and support the integration of Islam into Western democracy. Now both of these groups have been criticized by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) for being non-Muslim and for not representing true Islam. But CAIR itself has been criticized for supporting Islamist terrorists and for falsely trying to portray its policy and convictions as the Islamic majority. As far as the non Muslim accusations, it seems pretty certain after looking at the web sites that they are indeed Muslim, although there are some non Muslims as well. This provides very strong evidence that, unlike getzels claims, there are indeed Muslims criticizing Islamist terrorists and Islamic fundamentalism. So this actual research indicates that getzel, by his own reckoning, is a:

          #2 Hate others, and of course proclaim it is others that hate. = getzel hates all Muslims, claiming they are all responsible for Islamic terrorism and hateful to Americans/freedom/democracy, whether by direct action or passive non resistance. The presented evidence is a very strong indication that this is completely false, that ALL Muslims DO NOT HATE and some do indeed criticize Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists.

          The conclusion then is that getzel is very likely an Obama supporter. Either that or a hypocrite.

          • Posted By: getzel @ 03/01/2008 07:09:56

            Comment: you attribute comments to me that do not exist.

            • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 09:42:04

              Comment: Really? What about this one?(Caps are mine for emphasis)

              getzel: I am an American American and I am deeply offended that NO ONE CLAIMING TO BE MOSLEM DISAVOWS: Honor Killing, flying planes into building, those who are offended by those that criticize Moslems: refusal to defend free speech including the right to criticize Islam. Since NO Moslem defends free speech and disavow those practices; it is safe to assume the Moslems believe in all of those practices and HATE free speech; especially free speech to CRITICIZE MOSLEMS AND THEIR BELIEFS AND PRACTICES. Yes, I am offended by Moslems.

              Are you denying you said these things? That they don't represent your opinion? They were posted under your name, more than once I believe. I would say then that there is an excellent chance that these are indeed your comments and that they can be attributed to you.

          • Posted By: getzel @ 03/01/2008 07:04:05

            Comment: intheshrouds makes up comments and attributes them to me

          • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:22:25

            Comment: Comment:
            Intheshrouds: last sentence?: Oxymoronic: intheshroud reads and posts on my comments.

            Like intheshrouds he is an alqaeda plant or what does he say in Arabic or a propaganda minister. Intheshrouds bought and paid for the Brooklyn Bridge.

            intheshrouds is one the succors born everyday.

            In the whole world, in 10 years, intheshroud quotes one English language quote from someone???one out of one billion Moslems who Openly call for Sharia or whose silence is deafening; intheshrouds thinks one dubious supposed quote means the other billion Moslems that say different are negated: moron???

            CAIR is the propaganda wing for AL QAEDA see Michael Savage.com

            • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 00:38:04

              Comment: The first part of this post is irrelevant to my last comment. Yes CAIR has indeed been criticized or accused for supporting Islamic extremists. I clearly state this in my post. Apparently you can't understand english. The 2 Muslim groups in the web sites have been criticed BY CAIR for rejecting Islamist extremism and supporting peacefull integration of Isalm with democracy. If you're going to argue against something you should at least understand what your arguing against. And you call me a moron. And you still engage in hypocrisy by doing so.

              • Posted By: fog80 @ 03/04/2008 20:34:59

                Comment: cair has nothing to do with islamic extremism. it is actually the only voice muslims have in the us when hate crimes are committed against them.

          • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 19:41:05

            Comment: intheshrouds: Talks till he believes his own B S

            • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 08:56:40

              Comment: This is a typical getzel response when he has no valid argument, when he can't provide evidence to back up his claims.

            • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 02/29/2008 19:56:10

              Comment: Again getzel continues to ignore glaring evidence contrary to his erroneous views. Instead of taking this opportunity for self improvement or reflection he instead continues to engage in religious bigotry and hateful fear mongering. I'm almost starting to pity him.

              • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:26:41

                Comment: intheshrouds: A #2

                Research indicates there are 3, maybe 4 if you include congressmen, specific types of people that support PINKObumer.

                1. Hate themselves, and of course proclaim it is others that hate.
                2. Hate others, and of course proclaim it is others that hate.
                3. Most prevalent group: UDOPIANS: Characterized by bizarre manifestations of HOPE and CHANGE according to each individuals individual fantasy of utopia. UDOPIANS have the same side effects, not unlike alcoholics or drug addicts, they are in denial as to reality: that HOPE and CHANGE mean nothing; and yet those with UDOPIA feel HOPE & CHANGE means whatever they fanaticize it means. Each has the same basic politically correct response to those who try and point out they have UDOPIAN simplex: you are a neo-con or you hate or other similar politically correct accusations of the day. Someone points out: OBUMER you have UDOPIAN simplex: I see all the red flags of UDOPIA; same delusional HOPE for CHANGE answer every time.
                4. Congressmen, & their workers, who think PINKObumer is their: 4 more years of pork barrel: free meal ticket for their districts; no leadership with a clue to control congressional out of control spending.= easy re-election.

                • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 00:11:02

                  Comment: Comment: I would like to propose that, according to his own so called research, getzel may be an Obama supporter. Consider the evidence:

                  getzel claims that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of Islamist extremists. As evidence to support this argument he says that no Muslims openly reject or criticize Islamist Fundamentalists or Islamist terrorists. Earlier I posted a quote from a Muslim scholar as evidence that this isn???t true. I will not repost it here but the scholar???s name is Abdal-Hakim Murad for anyone that cares to find it. I will however post these 2 web sites as further evidence:
                  http://www.aifdemocracy.org/about/principles.php
                  http://secularislam.org/blog/summit.php

                  Also consider this interview with the AIFD founder concerning a PBS documentary that was pulled from airing:
                  http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=123

                  These groups, composed of Muslims and non Muslims, oppose Islamist terrorism and support the integration of Islam into Western democracy. Now both of these groups have been criticized by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) for being non-Muslim and for not representing true Islam. But CAIR itself has been criticized for supporting Islamist terrorists and for falsely trying to portray its policy and convictions as the Islamic majority. As far as the non Muslim accusations, it seems pretty certain after looking at the web sites that they are indeed Muslim, although there are some non Muslims as well. This provides very strong evidence that, unlike getzels claims, there are indeed Muslims criticizing Islamist terrorists and Islamic fundamentalism. So this actual research indicates that getzel, by his own reckoning, is a:

                  #2 Hate others, and of course proclaim it is others that hate. = getzel hates all Muslims, claiming they are all responsible for Islamic terrorism and hateful to Americans/freedom/democracy, whether by direct action or passive non resistance. The presented evidence is a very strong indication that this is completely false, that ALL Muslims DO NOT HATE and some do indeed criticize Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists.

                  The conclusion then is that getzel is very likely an Obama supporter. Either that or a hypocrite.


              • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:10:04

                Comment: CAIR is the propaganda wing for Al QAEDA. see Michael Savage.com

              • Posted By: getzel @ 02/29/2008 22:08:03

                Comment: intheshrouds: reads everything getzel posts; has no facts to refute, so what is his dispute. He is frustrated that getzel can compute, while he is like a plucked lute.

                • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 00:10:13

                  Comment: You can't compute a damn thing. I clearly stated in my post that CAIR had been criticized for supporting terrorism. Apparently you can't understand english. The other 2 Muslim groups in the web sites have been criticized BY CAIR for rejecting Islamist extremism and supporting peaceful intergration of Islam with democracy. If you're going to argue against something you should at least understand what you're arguing against first.

                  • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 03/01/2008 00:18:11

                    Comment: Oh and another thing, I have provided ample evidence to support my argument. Just because you ignore it or are incapable of understanding it doesn't mean it's not there. Again you fail to provide any so called research to prove that your Obama supporter accusations are any more than opinions.