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Posted By: Anonymous9723 @ 02/26/2008 4:57:58 PM

• Posted By: ra1976 @ 02/27/2008 7:54:58 AM

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  I will concede that the ad is about statuary rape and the stats I posted were general but it speaks to a larger problem. The way you deal with this type of issue is to draw a clear line that and that crossing the line is not tolerated at all. I don???t presume to think that teens are innocent just because they are under the age of 18 but I do know clouding the laws with some other type of determining factors to distinguish between children and adults will further empower those who seek to take what is not theirs to take from someone who has not fully developed a well structure method of dealing with these types of pressures. I would further go on record and suggest that your assertion that "most children become responsible adults well before 18" could not be further from the truth. I???ve worked with youth for over 15 years all over this country and a few others and the one thing that keeps coming back is that they are dealing with more pressure then they know how to handle. Sure there are some but I'm telling you of the thousands of teens I???ve worked with the vast majority of them are extremely impressionable, especially by someone who they may look up to for some reason. Look even the difference between a 16 year old girl and a 19 year old boy is completely unbalanced in most cases. In most cases if the 19 year old boy wants something he will get it one way or another. I've seen this countless times, and yes the girl has some responsibility too but the culprit is the older person because ultimately they should be looking out of the younger and impressionable not trying to exploit them. I've seen too much brokenness a result of this type of behavior to allow some of your statements to go unchallenged. I'm sorry but based on the 15 years of service to this age group your statements do not reflect the realities that I've seen. Truth be told I have not even worked with the worst demographic in that most of the kids I've worked with come from middle to upper middle class suburban families with quote good parents and for the most part good schools and yet the brokenness lies just behind all those plastic smiles we see

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    Posted By: Anonymous9723 @ 02/27/2008 9:59:13 AM

    @ra1967
    
    First, I said most teenagers "have the capability to become responsible adults well before the age of 18." I'm not saying they all are, but they are capable, if raised properly. This is exactly the root of the problem. This excusing and enabling of childish behavior beyond the point that the person we speak of is actually still a child. It fosters all of these bad behaviors we discourage in young people. This idea that we should keep kids kids as long as possible is noble in some ways, but extremely detrimental to the child's development. Many times I think this fruitless effort speaks more to the parents' desire to recapture their youth than a preservation of their child's. In any case, you end up with the fatal combination of a teenager with a mature body and an imature mind. And, then, we are all mystified with the results. Unfortunately, it is no surprise to me. Ignoring these age-old facts will only excacerbate these age-old problems, not correct them.

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      Posted By: ra1976 @ 02/27/2008 12:01:38 PM

      
      Correct you said "most children" which is what I quoted and it???s still not correct. Look I appreciate the concept of raising kids properly and educating them to make mature decisions. I'm not opposing that concept one bit and I'm certainly not condoning the idea of keeping kid???s kids and sheltering them from the world around. However would you leave a child alone with a loaded gun because you were planning on training them on how to use. Would you let a child drive alone on the highway just because you let them pull the car up in the driveway a few times and have started the training process. Of course not so why would you want to reduce laws that have clear lines of distinction forcing kids into potential hazardous situations just because they have started to learn how to deal with them. It's not logical, its like you are saying letting an infant touch a hot stove and burn themselves is the best way to teach them not to touch it. Which sure teaches a kid not to touch it but the difference between a physical injury and an emotional injury is the emotional one comes with extreme baggage that can develop of cycle of self destructive behaviors which produce more destructive behaviors. I appreciate having this conversation with you as you are very articulate and seem to speak from a position of authority on the topic however based on what I've heard from you it sounds like you are speaking from "the outside in". Teens are experts in masking their pain and insecurities and when you get past that exterior your eyes are opened to a whole new world. In closing I would suggest that child behavior is embodied in those who are praying on younger influential teens to be sexually gratified.....end of story. My whole life has been spent educating, supporting, and offering a genuine love without conditions to this age group and to hear someone suggest that any laws relating to sexual offense should be made less aggressive and as a result empower those interested in poaching our young people is beyond me.....which regardless of how you spin it is what you are endorsing here.
      

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        Posted By: Anonymous9723 @ 02/27/2008 4:18:01 PM

        @ra1976: ". . . would you leave a child alone with a loaded gun because you were planning on training them on how to use."
        
        Of course not. And, that's exactly what I have been saying this whole time. Parents are not properly "training" their children to be adults by the time their bodies are adults and by the time they are in adult situations which in turn causes undesired teenage pregnancies among many other common teenage problems. Further, even with very little "training," if parents have a good relationship with their teenagers and properly supervise them, the risks of such undesirable behaviors will be much less. We need to stop excusing parents and subsequently enabling bad behavior in our young people.
        
        @ra1976: ". . . based on what I've heard from you it sounds like you are speaking from "the outside in""
        
        This is true in the sense that I'm no longer a teenager and I don't interact with many, but false in the sense that we were all looking from the "inside out" at some point because we were all that age at some point. I, for one, haven't forgotten the double-standards and injustices imposed on us as we grew up. I felt as though the adults attempted to shelter us from society's ills, but at the same time failed at preparing us for the inevitable exposure to these ills. One common theme that always rang true with nearly every young person I spoke with was that all of us considered our parents inadequate, irresponsible, neglectful, and/or just plain selfish. Essentially, you have kids and teenagers raising themselves.
        
        @ra1967: ". . . to hear someone suggest that any laws relating to sexual offense should be made less aggressive and as a result empower those interested in poaching our young people is beyond me"
        
        I'm all for strengthening laws against sex offenders, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking consensual sex is a sexual offense. We can have reasonable statutory rape laws, but I believe the laws we have now are overly-rigid and make sex offenders out of normal people while at the same time masking the true threats. We can't on one-hand intellectually neglect and not properly supervise someone under 18, but then be disappointed with them when they make a mistake like having an undesired pregnancy. We can't on one-hand collect taxes from someone under 18, but then disallow them to vote. We can't on one-hand charge someone under 18 as an adult for a crime, but then on the other hand treat them like a child in all other respects. The courts have ways of determining if someone is a lawful adult when it comes to the commission of a crime or emancipation, for example. The same should be applied to these statutory rape laws. The fact is that statutory rape laws are ineffective. After all, we wouldn't be having this conversation if they were. We need to stop relying on these laws, or any laws for that matter, to replace solid parenting.
        

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          Posted By: pikachurepurfekt @ 03/15/2008 9:13:38 PM

          it is refreshing to see your statement "lets not fool ourselves into thinking consensual sex is a sexual offense. we can have reasonable statutory rape laws, but i believe the laws we have now are overly-rigid and make sex offenders out of normal people".
          
          i could not have said it more clearly. not only is this ridiculously communist law ruin the future of the one person who i could count on for the past six months, it marginalizes the severity of REAL rape cases. its idiotic to think that i dont have a voice. im 15, but im not psychologically impaired. frankly, its an insult to my intelligence. our government, while it is great and just in many ways, is disgustingly wayward in this statutory rape law. i miss my best friend, i will never get to see or hear from him again, i cry myself to sleep every night (its been three months) because of how he will suffer as an effect of my dumb idea. yes, IT WAS MY IDEA TO HAVE SEX. im not all that innocent, so, HELLO WORLD, stop labeling me as a dumbshit. i admit, i should not have risked his safety and well-being by engaging in sexual behavior with him. hes the real victim here. but that doesn't make the act wrong. whats wrong is the hatred and fear that took me away from him.

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          Posted By: ra1976 @ 02/28/2008 12:50:27 PM

          The problem with comparing our own teenage years with the current situation is that things are very different now then they were even 10 years ago, much more so than 15, 20 or 30. If we lived in a perfect world we would all have perfect parents which would intern produce perfect people and there would be no need for any laws, however this is not the case. So we???re left with the reality that there are bad people out there some much older and some only a little older then the ones these laws are designed to protect. We have moved to an environment in which kids are getting older and remain in high school and at the same time we are seeing younger and younger kids going to college, with this blending of age groups now more then ever these laws need to be in place. There is a very dangerous cat and mouse game that gets played by those between the ages of 13-24 these days and kids are getting devastated by them. The idea that statutory rape is not forcible is just wrong. Ive seen it happen where girls meet mr right who treats them so nice and is so concerned and loves spending time with them and once the girl is completely isolated mentally and emotionally every thing begins to change. Mr nice guy is no longer so nice and puts more and more pressure on her to perform for him. She most likely resists for awhile until the true psychological damage begins. He becomes Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde one minute telling her he loves her the next telling her shes worthless and no one could love her followed by if you loved me like I love you then you would do this. I certainly dont have the words here to accurately portray the situation but let it be known that these girls are just as much forced into things as the other types of assaults and often its a repeated assault. The guys know what they are doing, they are well calculated in the approach and it happens every day right under everyones nose. I truly believe if you would be able to experience just one of the experiences I have had with these kids (male or female) you would not believe how fast your opinion would shift. Look I can tell you are probably a very good hearted person who truly wants the best for young people, but you just dont truly know whats going on and how deep it is. I've sat at the edges of emergency room beds after failed suicide attempts, held kids in my arms as they sob uncontrollably because they no longer even know who they were anymore because so much had been taken from them. I've seen legs and arms scared to pieces as a result of kids turning to cutting as a result of becoming so numb to the world and just wanting to feel something to try to prove to themselves that they were still alive because of what has been done to them. While all this is going on many times they end up finding themselves laying there cold, numb, and emotionally dead as some older person is on top of them thinking to himself how awesome it is to be scoring such a young piece. Lets not romance this issue here.