Kosovo’s Dark Meaning

The United States, which quickly recognized Kosovo's independence, has not always been so tolerant of the principle of secession.

By George F. Will | NEWSWEEK

Mar 24, 2008 Issue

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Posted By: getzel @ 04/11/2008 11:44:47 PM

Comment: George Will is a USA government Minister of miss information.

The spark George refers to was an excuse and a well planned one at that, not a spark. The Moscow weapons company, then operating under the Czar, wanted: free access through the Bosporus straits and Constantinople; France wanted Alsace-Lorraine; both wanted a European war to achieve their goals; and they got one. Moscows, precursor to the KGB, armed and assisted in whipping up a nationalistic fervor in Serbia against Austria. Franz Ferdinand was caught in the Turkey shoot on June 28, 1914; France and Russia rushed to war almost before the dust settled and Russia was mobilized and moving by July 24 before Serbia responded to the Austrian ultimatum. Bosnia and Herzegovina had been annexed by Austria in 1908 because Russia encouraged Austria to annex them, while at the same time Russia was telling Serbia how bad the annexation was and that Serbia better stand up to Austria.

Ethnic nationalism predated the Great War by a generation.
So Why does the Government Minister of miss information, George Will, go on to tell us about nationalism and self determination after the war?

We must assume this is the governments way of telling us about a coming war.

Source material: C J H Hayes: A brief History of the Great War 1920
A F Pollard: A Short History of The Great War 1917. J S Bassett our War With Germany 1919.

No, the USA should not take actions that result in the implementation of a Sharia terrorist government; in Kosovo, the West Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, et al. A representative government is fine provided the people of the area want one; not fine at the point of a gun. Kosovo is a Sharia terrorist government today: bad policy. The Hamas independent government in Gaza is a Sharia terrorist government; likewise West Bank; likewise Lebanon if Hizbully gets it, Likewise Iran since Jimmy brought the Ayatollah, watch out or you get one in Pakistan; et al

It is never the moral high ground to assist in imposing a Sharia terrorist government on people that always includes: honor killing, hanging gays, women as chattel: virtual slaves, legal to murder & rape & pillage non -Muslims; that is the moral low ground. Yes, these throwbacks to the seventh century should be confronted or you get a burqa, will bow to Mecca or be killed.

Why Will George not write about Condoleezza Rice and the Oil Supertanker with her name on it; OK they erased her name so she could go in politics;

Islam is at war with The West because Islam can not survive a free market, free speech to criticize Islam world, representative Republic.

The governments of the world led by the USA and Russia and international law, have defined a set of war rule parameters that guarantee no war can be won by good guys and that guarantee nice long lasting wars with lots of weapons sales.

Intelligence analyst: Getzel
Posted By: altin36 @ 03/31/2008 12:15:36 PM

Comment: Do you know where serbs come from, the word slav, translated in 1000 languages means slave, get it serb
you are slaves, in your genes and in your blood. How come you never mention the displacement of 200,000 ethnic albanians from their homes, by e terrible Dictator who got what he deserved. But he's not the problem all you serbs are intolerant, stupid knucleheads, who thought they could do with other people whatever they pleased, until know, when the world comminity( and hopefully greeks) can see for themselves the atrocities that barbar serbs are capable of. You are not humans you are monster. Your country was a disgusting conglomarate of different ethnicities, created after worldd war 1 to please France. Which ironically was the first country to recongize Kosovo, how ironic. Why is your enlgish so simple, are all you slaves stupid, like Slobodan Milosecic?
I can't understand your irony, cause i can barely understand your english, in order to have a civilized debate your have to know the language you are writing in. You don't have it slave, not my fault you people are dumb as mules, and for the record i am an Albanian Orthodox, and i am better than you
- Posted By: a1109 @ 04/01/2008 02:07:47
  
  Comment: How many of non albanians , mainly Serb displaced a five years ago , Can you remember a babun jumping on a roof of a ortodox church? How can one call whole nation like you did before and at the end submit a constatation :``I am better than you``.Serbia is after all what`s happened still multietnic state .What is Albania? What is Kosovo ? Who else can live with you primitives? You are , at the begining of 21st century , tribal organised, still have blood revenge.Those are the facts.Everybody who came to kosovo or Albania can see that.
Posted By: altin36 @ 03/30/2008 9:48:16 PM

Comment: You greeks need to open your eyes, i have said this before i am saying it again, you have been brainwashed by your church, I am not going to even dignify a1109 with an answer, he can't even speak english. His Kaspian sea claims are as stupid as they come. I could say, and i am certain that greeks who live in greece now are not the descendants of Achilles, and Homer, for that i am sure. As far as your comments Ellinas, you seem e little more open minded to debate. But know this, Albania and Kosovo will never, ever unite as one, they will be two separate countries until they join the EU. You can check back with me on this after 5 years, and if you are the betting type, you can bet your house that this will never happen. As far as northern greece rubbish you talk about, greek claims are much much stronger of vorioepiris than alabanian claims ever were or are. The sizable greek comnunity you talk about in Albania is no greater than 40,000 thousand people, and they have never been mistreated in any shape or form, even during the dark years of communism, the vice president of our parliament was greek. How were they mistreated, they had their own schools in their native language, and they were hired before albanians were for jobs, althouhg they were less qualified, and a little slow-witted due to the fact that they all were from the country side, and they spoke albanian very poorly. Just the fact Jack, just the facts.
Post Scriptum.
to a1109, please don't write anymore, your english is very mangled and subpar, ellinas will translate it for you
- Posted By: Ellinas @ 04/01/2008 22:36:27
  
  Comment: altin36: Let's agree to disagree about Greeks being brainwashed by our Church. And I never claimed that we are direct descendants of our Ancients. However, being Greek is different than blood genaelogy: it is about "feeling" Greek which is more important. The rest is simply easy to fall into place once this exists, including fervent patriotism for anything Greek. We are similar to the US in the matter of being a historic melting pot. Look how seriously we defend our Macedonian history and heritage. I will also disagree with you regarding Greece's view of "Northern Epirus". While historically during the creation of our Republic, there was the idea of a Greater Greece (Megali Idea: Big Idea), and during communism a need to "protect" our fellow Greeks in Albania, there is no modern movement to take any Albanian land by any serious person. As far as I am concerned, we have no major "Albanian" problem in our country or yours. Except for maybe what the Greeks are to do with all those illegal immigrants.
  You may be right about Kosovo not joining Albania...yet. Perhaps it will need to be separate for the moment to act as leverage (2 Albanian areas instead of one on the international stage). But eventually, I think it will join. It would be interesting what will happen when the Albanians of FYROM and Montenegro decide to act more loudly. Also, it will be interesting to see what the Serbs in Mitrovica will decide to do. How much can you cut down an area so the minority becomes a majority before this becomes just silly? I wish that both you and your Serbian neighbours find a mutual and acceptable solution.
  - Posted By: Ellinas @ 04/01/2008 22:46:14
    
    Comment: I just wanted to add as information to the forum that the Arvanites of Southern Greece do not consider themselves Albanian because they have been incorporated into the Greek melting pot for generations and hundreds of years. This is what I meant about "feeling" Greek regardless of blood. They are now simply Greek and don't want to hear anything more about it. Unlike the muslim Chams who fled into Albania after WW2.
- Posted By: a1109 @ 03/31/2008 03:31:34
  
  Comment: Poor guy. kaspian sea supposed to be a sarcasam. maybe you are more familiar with Kavkaz? There is many similarities between Albanians and chechen people.Maybe , there is more evidence for that claims than for fairy tails of ``great Illiryan ancestors``, just because there isn`t any documented evidence , anywhere ecsept in your head , which is not brainwashed(?). You must have been missed something when you were describeing my knowledge of english language, this is not a english class and I`m sure you have been very well understand my mangled english. For you it is more than enough.You only are able to giving``leasons`` to other and when it turns up a bulshit you spin discusion quickly to a gramatics so and so.Simply , in the Europe werent a darker, more isolated country than Albania. Serbia , and SFRJ before were asilum for Albanians running from rutteless comunist regime to Kosovo , where they become from political and economical diaspora , a ethnic majority in a substantial part of our country. This is more close to reality than the story of illirians, dont you think so?
Posted By: Ellinas @ 03/26/2008 6:06:31 PM

Comment: You also mention that the Albanians in FYROM are part of the governing coalition and don't want to secede? You should read the news because I believe that the Albanian coalition has left the government of FYROM and the minority government has collapsed. If the Albanians of FYROM did not want to secede, they would not have revolted in 2001. I am not saying who is right and who is wrong. I am just saying that the map of Albania will be bigger in the future and will include Kosovo, western FYROM, and Montenegro. I also believe that Republika Srbska will join Serbia proper as will North Kosovo. Slowly but surely, the Balkan map will change. I am not a politician or a fortune teller, but it seems obvious to me.
Posted By: Ellinas @ 03/26/2008 5:55:27 PM

Comment: To altin36: I am aware of Albanians claiming Northern Greece because I have heard it from Albanian immigrants themselves: "The Chams will get back the lands they lost". I have also seen Albanian Community groups of the diaspora display a Kosovo flag that is essentially the flag of Albania with five white stripes representing future Albanian lands: Montenegro, FYROM, Northern Greece, Kosovo, and Southern Italy. A Greater Albania is always discussed among certain Albanian groups and even members of the Albanian government and let's not deny this. The difference between Southern Albania and Greece is that there is a sizeable Greek minority there that was oppressed during Communist times. Greece asks for equal treatment for its minorities outside Greek borders. Greece has not recognized Kosovo because Cyprus won't and not because it sides with Serbia. Plus I didn't read that anyone called you an idiot for you to be calling others this.
Posted By: altin36 @ 03/24/2008 11:21:20 PM

Comment: Would you support Montenegro's independence, Croatia's independence, Slovania's Macednioa's? Why woudn't they trigger unsolved similar situations, like you say. I am not aware of any Albanians claims in Northern Greece, but i am aware of the opposite, of how Greeks gleem at the idea of owning parts of southern Albania.Let's get it all in the open this is the reason why you won't recognize Kosovo, and would side with undemocratic, totalitarian regimes, such as the current one in Serbia. Who do you think you have more in common:Albanians or Serbs, think again, i think you oughtta change your politics drastically, and model your democracy after that of the US, which is to say a secular state, until you separate the church from the state you'll have idiots like yourself, who have been brainwashed their entire life into beliefs such as the one that Albanians are coming from the Kaspian sea, are we slavic? Jorgo educate yourself, too bad there are people like you still propagate these vemenous, hatred ideas, may anastapolous be with you
- Posted By: a1109 @ 03/27/2008 08:40:09
  
  Comment: Montenegro, Croatia , Slovenia, Macedonia were constitutional part, each of them separately, of SFRJ( former yugoslavia) just like Kosovo were always a part of Serbia. So ,you `re wrong again. And as it concerned youre story of a totalitarian regime , Serbia weren`t totalitarian state in it`s history a minute long like Albania was for decades. Serbia was ,thanks to commarade Tito, a asilum for albanians from Albania .Thanks to him the economic diaspora of Albania ,in Serbia became a majority in a substantial part of a territory of Serbia.So , don`t speak no more about bad regimes, because youre conutry , Albania, was until resently cirkled with a concrete bunkers ,in late 20th century.Why don`t you think you`re not originaly from Kaspian sea region? What can support your talk abbout Ilirians? Nothing , just a mith! The only thing that was happened here , in Serbia` southern province Kosovo, was that US gave to Kosovo independence for it`s own reasons, surely not to satisfy the ancestors of ilirians .That reasons are very much real : Bond st. NATO base,energy and mineral recources, enough for now . Now it`s al for free.Now happy Albanians can go on with a distribution of heroin from Afganistan to the rest of Europe.
Posted By: altin36 @ 03/23/2008 11:15:18 PM

Comment: I respectfully disagree with Mr Will, on most of his writings, but on Kosovo's dark meaning he crosses the line between fine, informative journalism and the fake, made-up, disingenuous one.
Albanians have been where they are now far longer than Mr. Will claims, we are the descendants of Illyrians, that have lived where Albania and Kosovo is now since the time of the Roman empire.
It is a known fact that the Slavic( Serbians) showed up first in the Balkans around the 6Th century, unlike your claim that Kosovo is the heart of Serbia. As far as the Greek Albanians, never have they claimed that northern Greece is Albanian, nor are there any Albanians in the northern Greece that are organized and would like to "self-determine" themselves. The Albanians in former republic of Macedonia, are part of the governing coalition there, and they are active participant in the institutions of that country. They never asked to secede. No conflicts have ever been provoked or started by Albanians throughout the history Mr. Will. We are a country that aspires to become a NATO member and EU member. Kosovar Albanians have been massacred brutally for as far as one can remember, and recently the genocide staged by the notorious deceased Serbian leader. Albania has survived despite people like you Mr.Will, we have our problems, but i can guarantee you that you will not find another country in the Balkans that works more diligently to foster a new era of peace and prosperity. Mr Will, you can hide behind your know it all, and impeccable use of the English language, but that doesn't give you the right to pass judgment on countries older than your English ancestors.
- Posted By: a1109 @ 03/24/2008 05:10:07
  
  Comment: Again cheap history leasons.It is just like ,I propose ,as a fact, a thesis that Albanians came to Balkans from Kaspian sea region. There is just nothing to support that fairy tails of Ilirians.That is a pure fabrication of Albanians ``intelectuals`` gathered in Prizren league and many others groups that had only one true purpose and that is Great Albania which includes a parts of all countries that surrounds a curent territory of Albania.It is only a matter of agenda.
Posted By: Ellinas @ 03/22/2008 7:44:27 PM

Comment: I agree that the lawful Albanian immigrants have rights in Greece. But as lawful immigrants, they don't have the right to assert Greek land as their own. They are immigrants and not a "minority" in the politically charged sense of the word (ie. the current Balkan sense of the word). Just like Greeks living in the US or Canada are not a minority. As a Greek living in Canada, I can not claim Canadian land for Greece! Let's agree that the unlawful immigrants living in Greece have no official rights. So, regardless of what any Albanian thinks about a Greater Albania in his/her mind, they have no right to claim land. So I don't see how it is a legitimate question how they might behave. It wouldn't be claiming land for self determination-it would amount to an Albanian invasion-or an act of war. Anyway, Kosovo is NOT Greece's problem and the article should have been more transparent.
- Posted By: a1109 @ 03/24/2008 05:19:54
  
  Comment: We also thought that they have no rights to claim our land but it has happend. And of course , Kosovo is not a problem of Greece, Kosovo is a global problem because it is a trigger to hundreds unsolved similar situations in many of multinational states, including Greece
Posted By: zhtohellas @ 03/21/2008 8:05:17 PM

Comment: The lawful Albanian immigrants in Greece have legal rights, but I am not aware that they have been granted Greek citizenship (it is my understanding that they have "green cards" but nothing else). The Albanians in Greece, both legal and illegal, are a minority numerically, regardless of whether the Greek government wishes to recognize the existence of ethnic minorities or not. They see themselves as Albanians not as Greeks. They have no right of self determination (the subject of the column). It is a legitimate question to examine how they might behave if Greater Albania asserted itself.
Posted By: Ellinas @ 03/21/2008 12:08:09 PM

Comment: Greece has no Albanian minority. Mr. Will please educate yourself!
Greece HAD a muslim Albanian minority (the Cams) in the northwest of the country in a region known as Tsamouria (Cameria in Albanian). It consisted of about 30000 people that existed there since the end of the Turkish occupation of northern Greece in 1912. This community was not at ease with the local Greeks since the Turks left as they were always sympathetic to Turkey. During World War 2, the Albanians in the area collaborated with the Nazis and committed atrocities against the local Greeks and Greek Jewish community. When WW2 ended, the Cam Albanians retreated into Albania in front of the advancing Greek and British forces. There are no Albanian Cams left in Greece since 1945 but some Albanians in Albania include northwest Greece in the future idea of a Greater Albania.
Greece has many legal Albanian immigrants who have come to Greece looking for a better life. They are Greek citizens. Greece also has many illegal Albanian immigrants who have no OFFICIAL rights in Greece as they are there illegally. Perhaps some of these immigrants harbour feelings of a Greater Albania which includes Greek land but they have no case.
Greece has not recognized Kosovo on the principle that Cyprus will not recognize it. Cyprus is a divided country and is trying to unite its 2 halves. If the unrecognized Turkish Northern Cyprus claims that since the world is recognizing Kosovo, why won't it recognize Northern Cyprus, then hopes at reunification are lost. This is why Greece will not recognize Kosovo, NOT because of any supposed Albanian problem. Responsible journalism requires that one educates him/herself before printing inaccuracies.
Posted By: getzel @ 03/20/2008 12:48:14 PM

Comment: George Will is a USA government Minister of miss information.

The spark George refers to was an excuse and a well planned one at that, not a spark. The Moscow weapons company, then operating under the Czar, wanted: free access through the Bosporus straits and Constantinople; France wanted Alsace-Lorraine; both wanted a European war to achieve their goals; and they got one. Moscows, precursor to the KGB, armed and assisted in whipping up a nationalistic fervor in Serbia against Austria. Franz Ferdinand was caught in the Turkey shoot on June 28, 1914; France and Russia rushed to war almost before the dust settled and Russia was mobilized and moving by July 24 before Serbia responded to the Austrian ultimatum. Bosnia and Herzegovina had been annexed by Austria in 1908 because Russia encouraged Austria to annex them, while at the same time Russia was telling Serbia how bad the annexation was and that Serbia better stand up to Austria.

Ethnic nationalism predated the Great War by a generation.
So Why does the Government Minister of miss information, George Will, go on to tell us about nationalism and self determination after the war?

We must assume this is the governments way of telling us about a coming war.

Source material: C J H Hayes: A brief History of the Great War 1920
A F Pollard: A Short History of The Great War 1917. J S Bassett our War With Germany 1919.

No, the USA should not take actions that result in the implementation of a Sharia terrorist government; in Kosovo, the West Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, et al. A representative government is fine provided the people of the area want one; not fine at the point of a gun. Kosovo is a Sharia terrorist government today: bad policy. The Hamas independent government in Gaza is a Sharia terrorist government; likewise West Bank; likewise Lebanon if Hizbully gets it, Likewise Iran since Jimmy brought the Ayatollah, watch out or you get one in Pakistan; et al

It is never the moral high ground to assist in imposing a Sharia terrorist government on people that always includes: honor killing, hanging gays, women as chattel: virtual slaves, legal to murder & rape & pillage non -Muslims; that is the moral low ground. Yes, these throwbacks to the seventh century should be confronted or you get a burqa, will bow to Mecca or be killed.

Why Will George not write about Condoleezza Rice and the Oil Supertanker with her name on it; OK they erased her name so she could go in politics;

Islam is at war with The West because Islam can not survive a free market, free speech to criticize Islam world, representative Republic.

The governments of the world led by the USA and Russia and international law, have defined a set of war rule parameters that guarantee no war can be won by good guys and that guarantee nice long lasting wars with lots of weapons sales.

Intelligence analyst: Getzel
Posted By: lovejusticepeace @ 03/20/2008 4:29:38 AM

Comment: Cool guys. Easy does it.
In no time we will have a Kosovar bombing US.
Didnt the UK created Pakistan bomb London ?
Posted By: FactFinder @ 03/19/2008 7:18:22 PM

Comment: Ah, yes Kosovo-Methojia. Serbian word meaning: Blackbird and place of the Monasteries.

And then, Kosova, an Albanian word meaning: A PLACE Albanians stole from the Serbian and Gorani peoples with the help of the 4th Reich made up of the USA and her criminal friends.

America, USA: a land stolen from the native peoples with much violence. The same sort of violence that the Albanians used to steal Kosovo- Methojia from its Serbs and Goranis.

No wonder the Americans want to help the Albanians. Two evils acting just alike.

Yugoslavia has been 'wiped off the map' by the actions of the brave USA airmen, bombing from 5 miles up to avoid risk of retaliation.

It was clear to some of us then that this was more about oil - the building of a pipeline to the Mediterranean from Central Asia - than about "genocide, no, of course not genocide by Americans! but by those wicked Serbs.

In those days, fundamentalist Muslims were the allies of America. They had been funded and armed by America as a means of a vicarious attack on the Soviet Union. The Bin Laden???s were welcome visitors to America including the Bush household.

The renowned liar, Clinton and State Department, trumpeted their "ethical" foreign policy of military intervention in any sovereign country NOT following western standards of repression, sorry, behaviour. The radical Islamic forces in Yugoslavia were materially supported and encouraged to revolt against their Yugoslav compatriots as a means of subverting that sovereign country and thus paving the way for a trans-Yugoslav pipeline (now completed).

Because of his patriotic stand, Milosevitch was vilified, charged with war crimes, and eventually poisoned. He is now forgotten. New demons have taken his place to justify "ethical" intervention by the forces of 'freedom and democracy' anxious to secure their hold on oil and gas resources and their transhipment to the West.

The latest twist of Kosovan ???independence??? is simply the last act in the dissolution of the former Yugoslavia and a further advance in subjugating and terrorising Russia by ringing it with American nukes.

It is also a further example, if any more were needed, of the genius of America in subversion and propaganda to cover its own evil actions ??? a genius that began with stories of the ???wicked redskins??? who opposed the brave settlers from Europe who simply wanted to bring civilisation to savages and live in (Christian!) peace.
Posted By: FactFinder @ 03/19/2008 7:17:22 PM

Comment: Ah, yes Kosovo-Methojia. Serbian word meaning: Blackbird and place of the Monasteries.

And then, Kosova, an Albanian word meaning: A PLACE Albanians stole from the Serbian and Gorani peoples with the help of the 4th Reich made up of the USA and her criminal friends.

America, USA: a land stolen from the native peoples with much violence. The same sort of violence that the Albanians used to steal Kosovo- Methojia from its Serbs and Goranis.

No wonder the Americans want to help the Albanians. Two evils acting just alike.

Yugoslavia has been 'wiped off the map' by the actions of the brave USA airmen, bombing from 5 miles up to avoid risk of retaliation.

It was clear to some of us then that this was more about oil - the building of a pipeline to the Mediterranean from Central Asia - than about "genocide, no, of course not genocide by Americans! but by those wicked Serbs.

In those days, fundamentalist Muslims were the allies of America. They had been funded and armed by America as a means of a vicarious attack on the Soviet Union. The Bin Laden???s were welcome visitors to America including the Bush household.

The renowned liar, Clinton and State Department, trumpeted their "ethical" foreign policy of military intervention in any sovereign country NOT following western standards of repression, sorry, behaviour. The radical Islamic forces in Yugoslavia were materially supported and encouraged to revolt against their Yugoslav compatriots as a means of subverting that sovereign country and thus paving the way for a trans-Yugoslav pipeline (now completed).

Because of his patriotic stand, Milosevitch was vilified, charged with war crimes, and eventually poisoned. He is now forgotten. New demons have taken his place to justify "ethical" intervention by the forces of 'freedom and democracy' anxious to secure their hold on oil and gas resources and their transhipment to the West.

The latest twist of Kosovan ???independence??? is simply the last act in the dissolution of the former Yugoslavia and a further advance in subjugating and terrorising Russia by ringing it with American nukes.

It is also a further example, if any more were needed, of the genius of America in subversion and propaganda to cover its own evil actions ??? a genius that began with stories of the ???wicked redskins??? who opposed the brave settlers from Europe who simply wanted to bring civilisation to savages and live in (Christian!) peace.

America, USA: a land stolen from the native peoples with much violence. The same sort of violence that the Albanians used to steal Kosovo- Methojia from its Serbs and Goranis.

No wonder the Americans want to help the Albanians. Two evils acting just alike. AMAZING.
Posted By: dryman @ 03/19/2008 10:21:51 AM

Comment: Comment: Immigrant community is not a minority and not recognized in international treaties. There is no Albanian minority in Greece and that is a fact. On the other hand, there is a Greek and Christian minority in southern Albania recognized by international treaties. It has been suppressed during the Communist as well as the post-Communist era. Do they have the right of self-determination or not? Also as other have also put it in this forum, why did the Unionists brutally suppress the right of self-determination of the South?
- Posted By: zhtohellas @ 03/19/2008 14:22:43
  
  Comment: There is a community of Albanian immigrants in Greece. They are a minority as they are fewer in numbers than the majority Greeks. They have advocate groups and newspapers. They are not Greek, nor do they see themselves as Greek in the way a Greek immigrant might assimilate and become an American. Do the Christians of Northern Epirus have the right of self-determination? They are mainly ethnic Albanians who happen to be Christians (some are Greek). They are assimilated into the Albanian nation. They belong in Albania. And Albania has an obligation to protect their civil and political rights. Any Greeks in Northern Epirus who are dissatisfied can simply emigrate to Greece if they are dissatisfied. The Greek Government ought to encourage that kind of immigration. The Albanians in Greece have no right of self determination as they already have a country (i.e., Albania). The Kosovar Albanians do not have a right of self-determination as "Kosovo" has never been a country and "Kosovan" is not an ethnicity. They may live with full civil and political rights in Serbia as do minorities in many other countries, some of which are members of the EU and NATO.
Posted By: getzel @ 03/19/2008 10:06:32 AM

Comment: George Will is a USA government Minister of miss information.

The spark George refers to was an excuse and a well planned one at that, not a spark. The Moscow weapons company, then operating under the Czar, wanted: free access through the Bosporus straits and Constantinople; France wanted Alsace-Lorraine; both wanted a European war to achieve their goals; and they got one. Moscows, precursor to the KGB, armed and assisted in whipping up a nationalistic fervor in Serbia against Austria. Franz Ferdinand was caught in the Turkey shoot on June 28, 1914; France and Russia rushed to war almost before the dust settled and Russia was mobilized and moving by July 24 before Serbia responded to the Austrian ultimatum. Bosnia and Herzegovina had been annexed by Austria in 1908 because Russia encouraged Austria to annex them, while at the same time Russia was telling Serbia how bad the annexation was and that Serbia better stand up to Austria.

Ethnic nationalism predated the Great War by a generation.
So Why does the Government Minister of miss information, George Will, go on to tell us about nationalism and self determination after the war?

We must assume this is the governments way of telling us about a coming war.

Source material: C J H Hayes: A brief History of the Great War 1920
A F Pollard: A Short History of The Great War 1917. J S Bassett our War With Germany 1919.

No, the USA should not take actions that result in the implementation of a Sharia terrorist government; in Kosovo, the West Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, et al. A representative government is fine provided the people of the area want one; not fine at the point of a gun. Kosovo is a Sharia terrorist government today: bad policy. The Hamas independent government in Gaza is a Sharia terrorist government; likewise West Bank; likewise Lebanon if Hizbully gets it, Likewise Iran since Jimmy brought the Ayatollah, watch out or you get one in Pakistan; et al

It is never the moral high ground to assist in imposing a Sharia terrorist government on people that always includes: honor killing, hanging gays, women as chattel: virtual slaves, legal to murder & rape & pillage non -Muslims; that is the moral low ground. Yes, these throwbacks to the seventh century should be confronted or you get a burqa, will bow to Mecca or be killed.

Why Will George not write about Condoleezza Rice and the Oil Supertanker with her name on it; OK they erased her name so she could go in politics;

Islam is at war with The West because Islam can not survive a free market, free speech to criticize Islam world, representative Republic.

The governments of the world led by the USA and Russia and international law, have defined a set of war rule parameters that guarantee no war can be won by good guys and that guarantee nice long lasting wars with lots of weapons sales.

Intelligence analyst: Getzel
Posted By: dryman @ 03/19/2008 9:32:49 AM

Comment: Immigrant community is not a minority and not recognized in international treaties. There is no Albanian minority in Greece and that is a fact. On the other hand, there is a Greek and Christian minority in southern Albania recognized by international treaties. It has been suppressed during the Communist as well as the post-Communist era. Do they have the right of self-determination or not? Also as other have also put it in this forum, why did the Unionists brutally suppress the right of self-determination of the South?
Posted By: getzel @ 03/19/2008 9:29:52 AM

Comment: George Will is a USA government Minister of miss information.

The spark George refers to was an excuse and a well planned one at that, not a spark. The Moscow weapons company, then operating under the Czar, wanted: free access through the Bosporus straits and Constantinople; France wanted Alcee Lorraine; both wanted a European war to achieve their goals; and they got one. Moscows, precursor to the KGB, armed and assisted in whipping up a nationalistic fervor in Serbia against Austria. Franz Ferdinand was caught in the Turkey shoot on June 28, 1914; France and Russia rushed to war almost before the dust settled and Russia was mobilized and moving by July 24 before Serbia responded to the Austrian ultimatum. Bosnia and Herzegovina had been annexed by Austria in 1908 because Russia encouraged Austria to annex them, while at the same time Russia was telling Serbia how bad the annexation was and that Serbia better stand up to Austria.

Ethnic nationalism predated the Great War by a generation.
So Why does the Government Minister of miss information, George Will, go on to tell us about nationalism and self determination after the war?

We must assume this is the governments way of telling us about a coming war.

Source material: C J H Hayes: A brief History of the Great War 1920
A F Pollard: A Short History of The Great War 1917. J S Bassett our War With Germany 1919.

No, the USA should not take actions that result in the implementation of a Sharia terrorist government; in Kosovo, the West Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, et al. A representative government is fine provided the people of the area want one; not fine at the point of a gun. Kosovo is a Sharia terrorist government today: bad policy. The Hamas independent government in Gaza is a Sharia terrorist government; likewise West Bank; likewise Lebanon if Hizbully gets it, Likewise Iran since Jimmy brought the Ayatollah, watch out or you get one in Pakistan; et al

It is never the moral high ground to assist in imposing a Sharia terrorist government on people that always includes: honor killing, hanging gays, women as chattel: virtual slaves, legal to murder & rape & pillage non -Muslims; that is the moral low ground. Yes, these throwbacks to the seventh century should be confronted or you get a burqa, will bow to Mecca or be killed.

Why Will George not write about Condoleezza Rice and the Oil Supertanker with her name on it; OK they erased her name so she could go in politics;

Islam is at war with The West because Islam can not survive a free market, free speech to criticize Islam world, representative Republic.

The governments of the world led by the USA and Russia and international law, have defined a set of war rule parameters that guarantee no war can be won by good guys and that guarantee nice long lasting wars with lots of weapons sales.

Intelligence analyst: Getzel
Posted By: jordanadah @ 03/19/2008 5:32:35 AM

Comment: What about the fact that the founding founders put the right for any state to succeed from this union in the constitution, which Lincoln ripped to pieces with the civil war, 500,000 dead and the reprecussions still being felt. The blacks would have been freed. But we went to war against the constitutional right of the south. We're only for self-determination when it's in our interest. Look at Iraq. Where's their self-determination?
Posted By: 2chuckles2 @ 03/19/2008 2:16:53 AM

Comment: iii
Posted By: zhtohellas @ 03/18/2008 7:02:18 PM

Comment: Greece has a potentially restive Albanian immigrant community, mainly Muslim, which does not see itself as Greek but as Albanian. FYROM has a substantial Albanian minority. The Kosovars in Kossovo wave the Albanian flag because they see themselves as ethnic Albanians (because they are), not as ethnic Kosovars (because there is no such ethnicity). Albanians in FYROM likewise consider themselves to be Albanians, not FRYOM's. We may soon witness the rise of "Greater Albania" in much the same way that we saw the rise of "Greater Bulgaria" at the beginning of the 20th Century, and "Greater Serbia" at the end of that century with perhaps the same consequences for the Albanians as both Bulgaria and Serbia suffered as a result of their irredentism.
Posted By: zhtohellas @ 03/18/2008 6:53:11 PM

Comment: Greece has a potentially restive Albanian immigrant population, mainly Muslim. FYROM has a substantial Albanian minority. The Kosovars in Kossovo wave Albanian flags. All of these folks see themselves as "Albanians" not as Greeks, FYROM's, or even Kosovars. We may witness the rise of "Greater Albania" just as we did the rise of "Greater Bulgaria" in the early part of the 20th Century and "Greater Serbia" at the end of the 20th Century. The Albanian peoples would do well to see what ethnic irredentism cost both Bulgaria and Serbia.
Posted By: paul962 @ 03/18/2008 3:00:37 PM

Comment: Reading George Will on this reminds me of the time he questioned the self determination of the Colts in their move, fully supported by the NFL.
Unfortunately, the current Kosovo situation specifically or the issues swirling in Eastern Europe will be settled by two games per year.
look for Russia to support the western states and provinces, led by California & Alberta efforts to form a new nation along with George's apt view of Southern Texas, New Mexico & Arizona.
The neo conservative movement with the key players of the Clinton administration cheering on has really gone and done it this time.
Posted By: dryman @ 03/17/2008 10:48:06 AM

Comment: U.S. may support secession of Kosovo or other interest but not based on principles; only national interest in the narrow sense is taken into account. How can one forget the brutal suppression of the self-determination rights of the Confederate States of America? How can one forget the five long years of war and the millions of dead in the name of doing away with the right of states to secede? Why are others nations and countries, like Serbia or, prior to that Yugoslavia, inhibited of exercising sovereignty?
Posted By: dryman @ 03/17/2008 10:00:00 AM

Comment: Please correct the phrase "Greece, with assertive Albanians in its northern region," with "Albania, with suppressed Greek population in its southern region,". Also in the future try to refrain from incorrect and inaccurate statements. In case, that you want to learn facts and conventional provisions please let me know and I will be more than glad to help.
Posted By: opriest @ 03/17/2008 9:14:35 AM

Comment: Will's irrelevant discussion aside, we see two faced liberals ignoring that the province must apply to the parliament to secede, therefore rejecting the rule of law. But enforcing it in Haiti. We ignore that the Kosovo crisis would have exposed Albright's and Holbrooke's failure to deliver US aid promises to Albania and why we had to close the embassy and evacuate Albania, which were "covered" by Clinton's "closet" foreign policy down around his ankles: Bosnia and Kosovo (troops still there fourteen years later), Somalia, Haiti, Darfur,Bin Laden,and the horrendous genocide in Rwanda and impotency in Mideast. Bush's poor judgement was lava flow from Clinton's inability to concentrate on anything not related to genitalia.
Posted By: getzel @ 03/15/2008 9:43:50 PM

Comment: President Wilson, 6 months before the USA entered The Great War, 1917, proposed a peace plan which was rejected by the Entente allies, included nothing of self determination. The Pope tried a peace plan that had self determination for disputed territory. George, quote your source.
Posted By: getzel @ 03/15/2008 9:25:00 PM

Comment: George Will is a USA government Minister of miss information.

The spark George refers to was an excuse and a well planned one at that, not a spark. The Moscow weapons company, then operating under the Czar, wanted: free access through the Bosphorus straits and Constantinople; France wanted Alcee Lorraine; both wanted a European war to achieve their goals; and they got one. Moscow???s, precursor to the KGB, armed and assisted in whipping up a nationalistic fervor in Serbia against Austria. Franz Ferdinand was caught in the Turkey shoot on June 28, 1914. France and Russia rushed to war almost before the dust settled and Russia was mobilized and moving before Serbia responded to the Austrian ultimatum. Bosnia and Herzegovina had been annexed by Austria in 1908 because Russia encouraged them to, while at the same time Russia was telling Serbia how bad the annexation was and that Serbia better stand up to Austria.

Ethnic nationalism predated the Great War by a generation.
So Why does the Government Minister of miss information, George Will, go on to tell us about nationalism and self determination after the war?

We must assume this is the governments way of telling us about a coming war.

Source material: C J H Hayes: A brief History of the Great War 1920
A F Pollard: A Short History of The Great War 1917. J S Bassett our War With Germany 1919.

No, the USA should not take actions that result in the implementation of a Sharia terrorist government; in Kosovo, the West Bank, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, et al. A representative government is fine provided the people of the area want one; not fine at the point of a gun. Kosovo is a Sharia terrorist government today: bad policy. The Hamas independent government in Gaza is a Sharia terrorist government; likewise West Bank; likewise Lebanon if Hizbully gets it, Likewise Iran since Jimmy brought the Ayatollah, watch out or you get one in Pakistan; et al

It is never the moral high ground to assist in imposing a Sharia terrorist government on people that always includes: honor killing, hanging gays, women as chattel: virtual slaves, legal to murder & rape & pillage non -Muslims; that is the moral low ground. Yes, these throwbacks to the seventh century should be confronted or you get a burqa, will bow to Mecca or be killed.

Why Will George not write about Condoleezza Rice and the Oil Supertanker with her name on it; OK they erased her name so she could go in politics;

Islam is at war with The West because Islam can not survive a free market, free speech to criticize Islam world, representative Republic.

The governments of the world led by the USA and Russia and international law, have defined a set of war rule parameters that guarantee no war can be won by good guys and that guarantee nice long lasting wars with lots of weapons sales.

Intelligence analyst: Getzel

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