Obama's World

His travel dossier was unusual already, with his school years in Indonesia and family ties in Kenya, but last week Barack Obama revealed another distinctive page: a stay at a college friend's home in Pakistan in the early 1980s. He spoke later to NEWSWEEK's Richard Wolffe about how his travels have shaped his views on global hot spots. Excerpts:

NEWSWEEK: What particularly stuck with you from the Pakistan trip?
Sen. Barack Obama: There were a couple of things … You had at that time a military government, you had a lot of problems with corruption, a lot of unemployed young men on the streets, a very wealthy ruling class that was plugged into the international economy but that in some ways wasn't woven into the larger economy  … There were a lot of trends that were similar to what I saw in Indonesia and what I would later see in Kenya. Part of the most memorable portion of the trip was … seeing what was essentially a feudal life, not just in terms of the economy but the political structure  … You had [peasants] who were still functioning as indentured servants, effectively. And the equivalent of feudal lords who still were essentially the law of the communities in which they lived. You have modernity standing side by side with ways of life and economies that have been unchanged for centuries.

Did that inform your approach to Pakistan?
What it tells me is that the most important aspect of our foreign policy is not simply our relations with the rulers of these countries, but also our appreciation and understanding of the challenges, the hardships and the struggles that ordinary people are going through there. Because in a country like Pakistan, if we are not thinking about that [peasant] that's working in the fields, or the young man who is a day laborer in Karachi, [if] we think that interactions with the Oxford-educated Pakistani in Parliament somehow gives us an insight into the country, we can be really mistaken and can make a series of misjudgments.

There is a sizable middle class [in Pakistan] that believes in rule of law and believes in a government that is accountable to the people. So our willingness to put all our eggs in the Musharraf basket without understanding this other tradition, and without understanding that our choice in a place like Pakistan is not simply [between] military dictatorship or Islamic rule, led us to make a series of miscalculations that has weakened our fight against terrorism in the region.

But you're not just talking about "understanding," are you? You've said you'd hit Al Qaeda if opportunities arise and the Pakistanis aren't taking action.
Absolutely. The point, though, is that to the extent that the people of Pakistan broadly believe that America isn't seeing them simply as a tool to carry out our foreign policy and meet our self interest, but rather see [their] aspirations as legitimate … and part of a broader set of aspirations in improving the quality of life in Pakistan and opening up opportunity to people, the more likely we are to get cooperation when it comes to dealing with terrorists, and the more likely we are to have legitimacy when we need to take military action.

You've talked about having a global summit of Muslim leaders early in your presidency.How much of your message to them is going to be drawing on a personal understanding or experience?
I think that it helps. Look, I said this earlier in the campaign. If I go to a poor country and speak about both the U.S. obligation to work with poor countries to relieve suffering, but also the responsibility of poor countries to clear up corruption and increase transparency and rule of law and build their civil service, I do so with the credibility of someone with a grandmother who lives in an impoverished village in Africa. In the same way, if I had a Muslim summit, I think that I can speak credibly to them about the fact that I respect their culture, that I understand their religion, that I have lived in a Muslim country, and as a consequence I know it is possible to reconcile Islam with modernity and respect for human rights and a rejection of violence …