Telecoms and the Bush administration talked about how to keep their surveillance program under wraps.
Comment: All of this stems from the great 9/11 subterfuge. WE ARE ALL BEING LIED TO. The War on Terror is not what it is portrayed to be! Just google Operation Northwoods or go to
www.zeitgeistmovie.com and be enlightened. Bear with the Religion part, it is Part 2 and 3 you really need to watch..
Comment: Continuation of last post: Look at all the illegal aliens that have been allowed to come to this country and stay; now there are so many of them that, John McCain for one, says it would be impossible to round all of them up and send them home. If it would have been handled in the beginning then we wouldn't have this problem. I say "Fight For All Your Freedoms or YOU Will Regret It!
Comment: Continuation of last post: Look at all the illegal aliens that have been allowed to come to this country and stay; now there are so many of them that, John McCain for one, says it would be impossible to round all of them up and send them home. If it would have been handled in the beginning then we wouldn't have this problem. I say "Fight For All Your Freedoms or YOU Will Regret It!
Comment: Continuation of last post: Look at all the illegal aliens that have been allowed to come to this country and stay; now there are so many of them that, John McCain for one, says it would be impossible to round all of them up and send them home. If it would have been handled in the beginning then we wouldn't have this problem. I say "Fight For All Your Freedoms or YOU Will Regret It!
Comment: If it's no big deal, then why be so secretive about it. We are all losing our freedoms one at a time because of some of the people in these posts. Remember the Bill of Rights. We need to keep our government in check or we will have hell to pay. Then it will be too late to do anything about it. Once it's done, really almost impossible to change it. Look at all the illegal aliens that have been allowed to come to this country and stay; now
Comment: If our government wants to spy on us for protection against terrorists, I don't see the big deal unless somebody is actually committing crimes.
Comment: The telecoms should be free from these ridiculous lawsuits. I'm glad someone is monitoring this phone traffic to prevent the next attack.
The people wanting to file suit are showing the worst kind of greed; this is all about the money and they are willing to sacrifice the safety of their fellow American citizens in order to pursue a quick buck. They disgust me.
Monitoring only occured on international calls, and domestic calls only with a warrent. This is a very reasonable balance to ensure our safety. People whining about how their "rights" have been violated need to re-read the constitution and Bill of Rights.
Comment: Well here we go; the writing is on the wall. First it takes a FOIA request for documents, then a judge???s order to enforce it, then they admit there are documents, but no one can see them because of the too often used ruse of ???national security???. Then no one will speak to the press because of pending litigation excuses, so it becomes a non-story covered by the media except to claim those opposed to illegal surveillance will be responsible for any future attack if they don???t let the administration continue illegally spying on them.
What a sham. Expect an interesting ???October Surprise???, and I don???t think it will be very pretty, most likely deadly for someone.
Comment: Well here we go; the writing is on the wall. First it takes a FOIA request for documents, then a judge???s order to enforce it, then they admit there are documents, but no one can see them because of the too often used ruse of ???national security???. Then no one will speak to the press because of pending litigation excuses, so it becomes a non-story covered by the media except to claim those opposed to illegal surveillance will be responsible for any future attack if they don???t let the administration continue illegally spying on them.
What a sham. Expect an interesting ???October Surprise???, and I don???t think it will be very pretty, most likely deadly for someone.
Comment: So your phone company can let the government spy on you without a wiretap and not be sued. Now the government wants to keep confidential the conversations that led to the passing of the legislation enabling them to do so.
Moral of the story: The government wants to know everything about you, but want you to know nothing about them or their political allies in business. Privacy is a right afforded governments and businesses, but not private citizens. Welcome to freedom and individual rights in the post 9/11 world.
Comment: So your phone company can let the government spy on you without a wiretap and no be sued. Now the government wants to keep confidential the conversations that led to the passing of this legislation.
Moral of the story: The government wants to know everything about you, but want you to know nothing about them or their political allies in business. Privacy is a right afforded governments and businesses, but not private citizens. Welcome to freedom and individual rights in the post 9/11 world.
Comment: So your phone company can let the government spy on you without a wiretap and no be sued. Now the government wants to keep confidential the conversations that led to the passing of this legislation.
Moral of the story: The government wants to know everything about you, but want you to know nothing about them or their political allies in business. Privacy is a right afforded governments and businesses, but not private citizens. Welcome to the definition of freedom in the post 9/11 world.
Comment: So your phone company can let the government spy on you without a wiretap and no be sued. Now the government wants to keep confidential the conversations that led to the passing of this legislation.
Moral of the story: The government wants to know everything about you, but want you to know nothing about them or their political allies in business. Privacy is a right afforded governments and businesses, but not private citizens. Welcome to the definition of freedom in the post 9/11 world.
Comment: So your phone company can let the government spy on you without a wiretap and no be sued. Now the government wants to keep confidential the conversations that led to the passing of this legislation.
Moral of the story: The government wants to know everything about you, but want you to know nothing about them or their political allies in business. Privacy is a right afforded governments and businesses, but not private citizens. Welcome to the definition of freedom in the post 9/11 world.
Comment: Recession???? I wish everybody who keeps using that word would do a little research. Not that you're in bad company because the big media outlets are just as guilty but a recession is two quarter's of negative growth. We've yet to have even one! Given the importance of consumer confidence in how well our economy does, this is not a minor issue.
And anybody who realistically thinks ANY president has any control over the economy is delusional.
Comment: Recession???? I wish everybody who keeps using that word would do a little research. Not that you're in bad company because the big media outlets are just as guilty but a recession is two quarter's of negative growth. We've yet to have even one! Given the importance of consumer confidence in how well our economy does, this is not a minor issue.
And anybody who realistically thinks ANY president has any control over the economy is delusional.
Comment: Recession???? I wish everybody who keeps using that word would do a little research. Not that you're in bad company because the big media outlets are just as guilty but a recession is two quarter's of negative growth. We've yet to have even one! Given the importance of consumer confidence in how well our economy does, this is not a minor issue.
And anybody who realistically thinks ANY president has any control over the economy is delusional.
Comment: The number of posts in this comment column that are ignorant or just plain wrong is sad and disheartening.
To the poster who blames the ressesion on the bush admin. Under what rock were you hiding for the last dozen or so years. The US economy has balance on that edge for longer than Bush has been in office. To blame it all on the Admin that finally gets slammed with it is pathetic. That you seem to have forgot that early in his first term the economy had a upturn for awhile is also sad.
Now back on subject. The vast majority of americans have no true concept for what it is to live without freedom. They have never steped foot out of this county or at the least out of the major tourist spots. To see how people in other countrys live. People have said(A good portion americans themselves) that the american govt is evil. Really? Lets draw some examples from "Evil" goverments shall we.
What goverment rounded up thousands of people based on race and gased/shot/hung/tortured/etc them? America?
What goverments spyed on their own people without any legal restriction? And when they found one word of protest the person vasnished never to be heard from again. America?
Under what goverment was is a acceptable practice to encourage sports teams to win with torture and beatings? America?
People nowadays seem to equate evil with anyone or thing that has a different opinion or does something a way they wouldn't. I see more and more that for every one person trying to do something (whether they agree it needs to be do or not) there are 5 people who were to lazy to do it, telling him that he is doing it wrong. And speaking statistic wise with the number of people actually voteing now. It's safe to assume that for every 10 people in here complaining about the goverment, 5 to 7 of them don't vote. The american people at work(I'm so proud). Don't actively participate in how the govt is run, but complain about it anyway.
Comment: It is someone who in unINformed or ignorant of how truly corrupt this government has become. Trusting this administration has put Americans at greater risk of being in danger from abroad as well as now from within. I suppose if you are an individual with close ties to the government, you are not afraid of having to give up your personal liberites because after all, we do have the best legal system that money can buy. As a patriotic American, I loathe and despise any style of oligarchy or monarchy that puts the prosperity of the few ahead of the needs of the many.
If these telecommunication companies are truly as patriotic as AAPLE claims them to be, they would have known that there is no person or group that is above the law. I would have the tought that the actions of companies like ENRON and Worldcomm would have sent a clear message as to the trust that big companies engender. It was big business that urged to Clinton administration to open up borders so that they could go abroad and produce items like poison toothpaste, babyfood and petfoods at much lower costs to them, while in return cutting those annoying pensions and benefits for people right here at home.
Is this the type of trust and faith that we should contunue to have in the country's government and industry? Is this the type of continued rhetoric and deceit that is going to turn this country around and put us back at the top?
Comment: It is someone who in unINformed or ignorant of how truly corrupt this government has become. Trusting this administration has put Americans at greater risk of being in danger from abroad as well as now from within. I suppose if you are an individual with close ties to the government, you are not afraid of having to give up your personal liberites because after all, we do have the best legal system that money can buy. As a patriotic American, I loathe and despise any style of oligarchy or monarchy that puts the prosperity of the few ahead of the needs of the many.
If these telecommunication companies are truly as patriotic as AAPLE claims them to be, they would have known that there is no person or group that is above the law. I would have the tought that the actions of companies like ENRON and Worldcomm would have sent a clear message as to the trust that big companies engender. It was big business that urged to Clinton administration to open up borders so that they could go abroad and produce items like poison toothpaste, babyfood and petfoods at much lower costs to them, while in return cutting those annoying pensions and benefits for people right here at home.
Is this the type of trust and faith that we should contunue to have in the country's government and industry? Is this the type of continued rhetoric and deceit that is going to turn this country around and put us back at the top?
Comment: Seeing comments like samo606's makes you wonder if American culture and democracy has any future at all. The founding fathers must be turning in their graves at such ignorance. Great Americans gave their blood, gave their lives, so that we would not be subjected to such tyranny like the Bush administration's unreasonable searches made without court orders, without any oversight. When you read comments like that, the "so what, I got nothing to hide" foolishness, you know that America has, indeed, been dumbed down to a frightening level. The stupid, greedy telecom executives should be fired, their companies should be sued, and I hope their stockholders bleed as a result. The president is not above the law. The president is not a king. Sue the telecoms and make them pay for what they've done.
Comment: samo606 you said: time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!! PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAMO6O6 for getting on your knees and being a good little sheep! Q: If we are fighting terrorists who are they? A: Anybody that gets in the of the neocons way and doesn't bow down. The word terrorist is such a broad term. They are doing the same stuff the Nazi's in Germany did. You must be Government
govGovgovernment
Comment: samo606 you said: time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!! PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAMO6O6 for getting on your knees and being a good little sheep! Q: If we are fighting terrorists who are they? A: Anybody that gets in the of the neocons way and doesn't bow down. The word terrorist is such a broad term. They are doing the same stuff the Nazi's in Germany did. You must be Government
govGovgovernment
Comment: samo606 you said: time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!! PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAMO6O6 for getting on your knees and being a good little sheep! Q: If we are fighting terrorists who are they? A: Anybody that gets in the of the neocons way and doesn't bow down. The word terrorist is such a broad term. They are doing the same stuff the Nazi's in Germany did. You must work for the Govgovernment
Comment: Did anyone beside me notice that the first several minutes of POTC: At World's End was a blow by blow indictment of the bushite administration? Way to go Bruckheimer!!
Comment: USA has become a worse gulag. Willful slaves and morons following a buffoon over a cliff.
The USA government is not entitled to eavesdrop or invade privacy. EVER.
Fools and imbeciles allow the government to review every wakig hour.
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I can take of my own backyard just fine, thank you. I won't blame you or anyone else.
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: UP NEXT FOR SLAUGHTER, thanks for the spellcheck. I can see what your real concern is.
Comment: To murkeni, you can bath in yourself or you can wake up and see the truth. I'm done talking here because so many have a stick up thier a__ in self indulgence. Wake up everyone and se the truth. We are our own enemy when it comes to the ecconomy. Buy first from your State and then your Country. If it's not available, ask yourself if you really need it. We need to help ourselves help ourself.
Comment: To murkeni, you can bath in yourself or you can wake up and see the truth. I'm done talking here because so many have a stick up thier a__ in self indulgence. Wake up everyone and se the truth. We are our own enemy when it comes to the ecconomy. Buy first from your State and then your Country. If it's not available, ask yourself if you really need it. We need to help ourselves help ourself.
Comment: niteshift It's spelled authority and constitutional. That old piece of paper has lasted over 200 years and It will last a lot longer if politicians are MADE to honor their OATH of office when they put their hand on the Bible and SWEAR to uphold the Constitution. But I guess it doesn't count since the Bible is too old to keep up with the "New Technology". Just who is the terrorist? You,me and anybody else they don't like. WAKE UP PEOPLE
Comment: niteshift It's spelled authority and constitutional. That old piece of paper has lasted over 200 years and It will last a lot longer if politicians are MADE to honor their OATH of office when they put their hand on the Bible and SWEAR to uphold the Constitution. But I guess it doesn't count since the Bible is too old to keep up with the "New Technology". Just who is the terrorist? You,me and anybody else they don't like. WAKE UP PEOPLE
Comment: For those of you who have always known freedom... you are completely incapable of recognizing when your freedoms are slowly being eroded away.
You have nothing to hide samo060? I'm sure you would also be the first one to agree with spying on your neighbor and reporting them to the police if it comes to pass that disagreeing with the government is a form of corruption that needs to be 'fixed' by some time in a state hospital being 'de-programmed' and re-programmed into being an 'honourable citizen'.
For a nation that fought so hard against the 'evils of Communism' for 50 bloody years, you Americans are on a slippery slope right now. Land of the free, home of the brave? No. Land of the opressed and home of people who never learned from history and are determined to repeat the same mistakes the USSR made.
Either you take a stand and say this wire tapping and constant surveillance is not acceptable, or get used to calling yourselves 'comrade' when you greet each other in the street. Your choice.
Comment: What a quaint headline - "Snooping". No, it's not snooping - it's conspiracy to commit and committing an illegal and unconstitutional eavesdropping program by W and his cabal of criminals. When is W going to pay for his incompetence and crimes?
Comment: I must agree with you niteshift, we the people, have gotten ourselves into this mess. Perhaps in November we can begin the long process of extricating ourselves from it. God forgive us, indeed
Comment: What a quaint headline - "Snooping". No, it's not snooping - it's conspiracy to commit and committing an illegal and unconstitutional eavesdropping program by W and his cabal of criminals. When is W going to pay for his incompetence and crimes?
Comment: samo6o6....well lets all keep hoping that what is acceptable to say on the phone today doesn't turn out to be something the jackboots will come get your for tomorrow. Its quite a nasty surprise when the majority suddenly finds themselves the minority......
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's words
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Comment: To murkeni I say, we all have ourselves to blame for this economy. We buy from China, Japan and whatever country our US companies decided to move to. Sure, we were asking for better wages and benefits but we made the company profitable to begin with. It's our fault by buying the product after they left us for another country. It will continue to be our fault as long as we continue. Heck, China has a difficult time finding enough fuel to turn our junk into the products we buy. God forgive us!
Comment: Waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop? How long was it between the first Tower hit and the 2nd? And then the Pentagon? Are there those who BELIEVE that our government (any of the branches or the Pretorian Guard)can do anything to protect our collective body from attack by ANY extreme radical - Baptist, Buddhist, Islamic, Catholic, agnostic? All the preacher was saying in his sermon was "we reap what we sow". But, alot of simple folk don't cotton to that way of talkin'.
Comment: Waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop? How long was it between the first Tower hit and the 2nd? And then the Pentagon? Are there those who BELIEVE that our government (any of the branches or the Pretorian Guard)can do anything to protect our collective body from attack by ANY extreme radical - Baptist, Buddhist, Islamic, Catholic, agnostic? All the preacher was saying in his sermon was "we reap what we sow". But, alot of simple folk don't cotton to that way of talkin'.
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here or see, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: samo said: time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!! PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAMO6O6 for getting on your knees and being a good little sheep! Q: If we are fighting terrorists who are they? A: Anybody that gets in the of the neocons way and doesn't bow down. The word terrorist is such a broad term. They are doing the same stuff the Nazi's in Germany did.
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: samo6o6....well lets all keep hoping that what is acceptable to say on the phone today doesn't turn out to be something the jackboots will come get your for tomorrow. Its quite a nasty surprise when the majority suddenly finds themselves the minority......
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's words
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Comment: samo6o6....well lets all keep hoping that what is acceptable to say on the phone today doesn't turn out to be something the jackboots will come get your for tomorrow. Its quite a nasty surprise when the majority suddenly finds themselves the minority......
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's words
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Comment: samo6o6....well lets all keep hoping that what is acceptable to say on the phone today doesn't turn out to be something the jackboots will come get your for tomorrow. Its quite a nasty surprise when the majority suddenly finds themselves the minority......
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's words
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Comment: samo6o6....well lets all keep hoping that what is acceptable to say on the phone today doesn't turn out to be something the jackboots will come get your for tomorrow. Its quite a nasty surprise when the majority suddenly finds themselves the minority......
Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's words
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I read this article and chuckle because I work at the agency tasked with this collection. You could say I am a subject matter expert. Let me say implicitly that the United States does not target US Citizens. In the case Katz v. United States it was determined that we could not, under the constitution, target someone within the United States without violating their fourth amendment rights. The only time we are allowed to wiretap someone within the United States is with a warrant signed by the Attorney General. Even then, we have to show probable cause that the person we collect against is a threat to National Security.
We Never Quit. Never Have, Never Will
Comment: Thanks for giving us the party line. We expected it.
Comment: Thank God George Junior came along and saved us! Where would be right now without him? Let's see, no wiretaps, no recession (no rising energy costs and stagnating wages because of rising energy costs), no war in Iraq (no WMD...hey everybody, wake up...your prez is a LIAR...thats not bad information, thats bad policy), no crazy fuel prices (peace in the middle east=cheap oil), no bailouts for Wall Street (do your really need an explanation of this relationship), no secret emails, (no Bush emails at all, thank God) no waterboarding (again, peace in the Middle East), no poor global image ( Thanks for wasting all of that Post 9/11 goodwill). Good thing George Junior came along and made our life so interesting. For all of you out there who think your president is doing what he thinks is right, how many of you would go around begging for retroactive immunity if you thought you were so right? So, on the fifth anniversary of misson accomplished...here you go folks...America, ruined by republicans...."Mission Accomplished!"
Comment: You had me, right there with you until the end, when you said, "America, ruined by Republicans"... That is ignorant HORSE HOCKEY! Dumb! It is not Republicans that are ruining America, it is all the top dogs of politics. You don't think Hilary Clinton would sell us out if she gets the throne??? HA! She is all for the North American Union, the Patriot Act, and even things you don't know about! You need to think independently, there are no longer any differences between the parties, trust! The faces of "leadership" may change, but behind the curtain, the folks are the same- and so is their agenda. WAKE UP!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment: I have no problem with the goverment listening to my phone calls or anything else they want to here, i have nothing to hide.If we don't keep track of these nuts the next time they bomb us it might be in your backyard then who you going to blame!!!!!!!
Comment:
Spying on innocent Americans do not keep us safe, it just makes us shackled. Amnesty to illegal???s, student Visas to citizens of countries that hate us, Teaching Islam as a ???religion of peace??? while outlawing Christianity, taking away our right to bear arms???does this sound like a government that is protecting us? No it is a government trying to protect its control of us! Live free or die it has been said???now you say live in shackles, live oppressed, just please let us live. Cowards!
Comment: SF777 you should sit back and read your own inputs. I believe you are talking gibberish my friend. Don't get mad at me just listen to reason for a moment. We didn't have a more diverse way of communacation as we do now back then. Terrorists have and probably now iniltrate our way of life. Would you be happier if they were to commmunicate to each other with disregard because we don't have survailance. I'm sure your family would feel alot sfer if they know they wouldn't be harmed by ome event from terrorists
Comment: ???If you are a law abiding citizen then what do you have to hide???? Sounds like something the Stasi (SSD) or the KGB have said too many times to count. If our government can be so trusted, then why have a constitution? Why have the Bill of Rights? If you trust our government so much, why not let the NSA or the CIA, or the FBI put a camera in every room in your house to prove you are a law abiding citizen?
Comment: SF777 you should sit back and read your own inputs. I believe you are talking gibberish my friend. Don't get mad at me just listen to reason for a moment. We didn't have a more diverse way of communacation as we do now back then. Terrorists have and probably now iniltrate our way of life. Would you be happier if they were to commmunicate to each other with disregard because we don't have survailance. I'm sure your family would feel alot sfer if they know they wouldn't be harmed by ome event from terrorists
Comment: I don't know if it's just me, but snooping on U.S citizens scare me more than potential terrorist threats, because if a person has the authority to suspend democracy, then how can we continue to call this America. I can remember reading about how the former USSR used secret police to spy on it's citizen and thought to myself how evil. Now I hear justification for our government to do the same. I'm starting to believe that there isn't much difference.
Comment: jenscott: Police and FBI in the US round up innocent people based on race, color, religious affiliation, etc. and even Americans who oppose these actions, shoot 'em dead (on night before wedding) or ship them off to private labor prisons or camps (Japanese in US during WWII, African Americans daily, Hispanics, Muslims), and did experiments (Tuskegee Experiments), not to mention the genocide by the combination of crack and guns or by no intervention in Rwanda. So what IS the difference?
Comment: jenscott: Police and FBI in the US round up innocent people based on race, color, religious affiliation, etc. and even Americans who oppose these actions, shoot 'em dead (on night before wedding) or ship them off to private labor prisons or camps (Japanese in US during WWII, African Americans daily, Hispanics, Muslims), and did experiments (Tuskegee Experiments), not to mention the genocide by the combination of crack and guns or by no intervention in Rwanda. So what IS the difference?
Comment: jenscott: Police and FBI in the US round up innocent people based on race, color, religious affiliation, etc. and even Americans who oppose these actions, shoot 'em dead (on night before wedding) or ship them off to private labor prisons or camps (Japanese in US during WWII, African Americans daily, Hispanics, Muslims), and did experiments (Tuskegee Experiments), not to mention the genocide by the combination of crack and guns or by no intervention in Rwanda. So what IS the difference?
Comment: jenscott: Police and FBI in the US round up innocent people based on race, color, religious affiliation, etc. and even Americans who oppose these actions, shoot 'em dead (on night before wedding) or ship them off to private labor prisons or camps (Japanese in US during WWII, African Americans daily, Hispanics, Muslims), and did experiments (Tuskegee Experiments), not to mention the genocide by the combination of crack and guns or by no intervention in Rwanda. So what IS the difference?
Comment: To SF777, your reading too fast. Yes, we "the people" made it too difficult for other countries to invade our shores "many years ago" and thus made us free. It is more difficult now with the new techknology available to everyone, including the terroists, to keep our shores, i.e., our country. from being invaded. Do you understand?
Comment: You also say, ???It's a whole new world out there now and we need to approach our safeguards differently. President Bush has done just that, enabling wire taps to intercept conversations from known countries and/or individuals. It is't the first time survailance was done....remember the intercept of wireless,(radow waves), uring the world wars???? But those radio intercepts were from the enemy military that were a threat to our way of life???in order for the comparison to stand is if you agree with the government that ???we the people??? an enemy to our governments and a threat to its way of life! If their motives were valid there are other things they would be doing that they refuse to do.
Comment: TO:Radical323 What did Bush have to hide when he was Questioned by the 911 Comission?? The only way he would agree to be Questioned was not to be put under Oath and have Dick Cheny in the room at all times!!! What did he have to hide?? Law Abiding, My Ass!!
Comment: To Radical323, I'm behind you 100%. To all check out my commments around 4:30 pm.
Comment: You don???t find the way our government is going about conducting this program spooky? If our government must break its own laws to ???protect us??? then why were those laws there to begin with???to protect our freedom! You say, ???We are free because we "the people"' have made it too, difficult for someone to come to our shores to invade us.??? If this is true, then why not enforce border laws, why give amnesty to illegal???s???some of whom may be terrorists?
Comment: If you are a law abiding citizen then what do you have to hide? To all you Bush bashers out there I would rather have someone listening to my calls than have terrorist bombs blowing up all over the country!
Comment: I'm 100% behind you on that.
Comment: We need to get over this thing about terrorists blowing up bombs all over the country. That's an old outdated tactic. These guys are smart, well educated (by us), trained in military tactics and intelligence(by us), and understand world financial markets and influence. They don't have to us bombs any more. They are using their world friends (foreign governments) to bleed America dry by running up the price of oil (ie OPEC and Saudi Arabia) to record levels and lending the US government money (ie. China) and buying our debt causing inflation, credit crisis, foreclosures, etc. Which has a greater impact on the U.S.? A bomb at a shopping mall or what we see happening now.
Comment: I know....radio waves during the world wars.........
Comment: I know....radio waves during the world wars.........
Comment: I know....radio waves during the world wars.........
Comment: I know....radio waves during the world wars.........
Comment: To Islam there are two zones???the Zone of Islam and the Zone of War. We want to play nice and try to appease the terrorists and force Israel to give them land, while all the while they plot to take over the world. Our government is more aware of this than maybe you are, yet they seem focused on taking away our rights???why? Study the tactics of the SSD in the old East Germany and compare them to this current government. See the similarity? If not, your indoctrination is complete.
Comment: To: swwhite
Don???t blame me when you wake up one day and realize you have no freedom left. When an evil dictator rises up and forces you to worship him as a god, like Kim Jong Il, and you have no freedom to say no, don???t blame me. When we get attacked again, I will blame our government for not doing the right things. Rather than inundating themselves with useless intelligence on innocent Americans???so much so that it would take hundreds of years to sift through it, they should be doing things that will make us more secure, like securing our borders and ending student visa from Muslim countries and focusing on the people that would be the ones carrying out the next attack???Islamists.
Comment: We are free because we "the people"' have made it too, difficult for someone to come to our shores to invade us. It's a whole new world out there now and we need to approach our safeguards differently. President Bush has done just that, enabling wire taps to intercept conversations from known countries and/or individuals. It is't the first time survailance was done....remember the intersept of wireless,(radow waves), uring the world wars?
Comment: There was nothing wrong with the president and others on these surveillance issues. At the time of war, and it is a war against terrorism, the president should and does have the power to use his athority. This is a different world since these constatutional rights have been written and changes need to be made for the new tech. that has sprung up faster than we can adapt to.
Comment: It's spelled authority and constitutional. That old piece of paper has lasted over 200 years and will last a lot longer if the politicians would uphold their OATH of office when they put their hand on the Bible and SWEAR to uphold the Constitution. But I guess it doesn't count since the Bible is too old to keep up with the "New Technology". Just who is the terrorist? You,me and anybody else they don't like. Good luck with it!
Comment: You have obviously got your education from a government school because you can't even spell authority or constitutional. That old document you talked about has survived all these years and will last a lot longer if the politicians would uphold their OATH of office. The one they put there hand on the Bible and swear to uphold. But the Bible is too old so it should updated to the "new technology" so the OATH doesn't count? HA
Comment: You have obviously been taught in the great public school system because you can't even spell authority and constitutional right.That old piece of paper you talk about has survived all these years because the corrupt politicians you are obviously getting on your knees to defend swore to uphold the constitution. But maybe you haven't seen them put their hand on the Bible because you have been reading so much. Ha Ha
Comment: When I was in my thirties, someone told me that by the time a person reaches fifty his/her character is etched all over thir face........ I keep in mind that eighty percent of communication is non-verbal...
Georgie Boy = untrustworty, puppet on a string, evil personified. Look at what he's done, and allowed tobe done to us here in the US[a country run by we, the people-hahahahaha}- to the world...
George, et al got a lot comin' to em. There is a Power greater and they will answer for their actions
Comment: There is no discussion to be had here. The Bush administration and their Telecom Accomplices shall be held accountable for violating the law of our land, the law of the People - Our great Constitution. This is the only law that Bush swore to uphold. The False Flag operations of 9/11/01 have given this president and his corrupt administration more mileage than warranted and they shall be held accountable.
Comment: The following different quotes are attributed to Ben Franklin.
Which one or the other is the correct one or the most accurate is not important. The meaning of the words are both IMPORTANT and TRUE.
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
"If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
"Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither."
Comment: Consider our government???s motives to spy on us, they say it is necessary now because of 911, however, it has been reported that our government was applying pressure to telecoms 6 months before 9/11/00 to spy on us, but with little cooperation. 6 months before! Also, if they are so worried about our safety that they are willing to suspend freedoms to keep us safe, they seem only willing to suspend the freedoms of US citizens while further protecting the ???rights??? of non citizens. They refuse to close our borders or enforce our immigration laws, they offer amnesty to illegal???s, continue student visa programs (even though this is the devise the 911 terrorists employed to get in this country in the first place) and they refuse to focus on Islam as the motivation behind terrorism, calling Islamic terrorist ???radicals??? when the Koran calls for terrorism. I bet many of you on here will disagree with everything I said and say that doing things like closing our borders and stopping student visas is too radical??? is it more radical than then taking away our God-given rights affirmed in the Constitution? There is something more sinister going on here.
Comment: I forgot which politician said this, but I heard one about a year or so ago say in defense of domestic spying programs, ???the most important freedom an American can have is the freedom to live.??? Some of you on here seem to have the same attitude and are completely willing to trust our government to do the right thing, even though you know they are acting against the Constitution; however, is the quote above accurate? If it is, then why have men and women throughout our nation???s existence sacrificed their lives to defend freedom? Do you see the contradiction? If the most impotent freedom we can have is to live in safety, then none of us would be free because no one would be willing to sacrifice their safety to defend freedom. Is it better to die free or live in shackles? If you believe it is the latter, then you are the reason our Constitution is so irrelevant to our current government. Our founding fathers believed that our government should be small and should only exist to serve ???we, the people???, however, our government now believes that we exist to serve it, and it has become a monster to be reckoned with.
Comment: I support this bill. It does not bother me one bit, if the government wants to look into my life, please go ahead, I have nothing to hide. This bill will prevent terrorism and it will hopefully prevent our country from being attacked again. And SF777, I want you to promise me one thing, if this bill gets knocked down and we get attacked again, I don't want to hear from you about how our government should have done something to try and prevent these attacks.
Comment: Also, if what the Telecoms did was legal, then why do they need immunity from our existing laws? If a US citizen breaks a law, they go to jail. Try fudging your income taxes and see what our government does to you. Why is it okay for the government to break the law? Because they believe that they are above the law because they are the giver of all laws???They are not. You can argue that the existing laws are not sufficient so it was okay, but try using that argument, as a citizen, the next time you break the law???see if that gets you off the hook with the judge. If you believe that you are free, you are fooling yourself.
Comment: Bella12,
This conversation has come a long way from the topic Lukeal and I were discussing. I'm still waiting for his response. I am will to bet you would agree more with my position than with his.
But to your questions. I don't remember Hassert and Bonner ever being exposed "covering up" Foley. If they did, I would call their actions wrong, unlawful, reprehensible, but I would reserve evil for a higher crime. Just my take on it.
As for comparing Foley to Barney Frank, Foley was caught trading text messages with a minor, Barney was CONVICTED of sex w/ a minor was he not? Yet Barney is a prominent figure in the DNC.
Why does Barney get a pass? I think we both know why.
Comment: Same reason as Larry Craig i guess. Not illegal and no one rep. or dem. needs their avocates on their neck. You would think the republicans would have tried to do something to Barney and the same for the democratic against larry. Gays give me the creeps but I wouldn't do anything to hurt them. The flamers i can do without. well I'm changing my handle now. i'm afraid I might have started a Gays for Bush/Cheney group with these remarks. not that there's anything wrong with that. signing off
Comment: NEWSWEEK is right on the cutting edge. The blogs have been showing a note that makes one think their post didn't take for 2 or 3 weeks now. Do you get the feeling that they might not be monitoring? Maybe they need the bush/cheney monitoring task force.
Comment: Clinton was impeached for improper fratinizing in the White House and not telling the truth obout it.
That is miner for the hell the Bush and his Gang has put the whole world thru.Now why hasnt Bush
and his gang been inpeached plus more.????
Comment: Clinton was impeached for improper fratinizing in the White House and not telling the truth obout it.
That is miner for the hell the Bush and his Gang has put the whole world thru.Now why hasnt Bush
and his gang been inpeached plus more.????
Comment: Bella12,
To answer your question directly, yes I do believe Mark Foley was an evil doer. I'll ask you the same straight forward question that Lukeal has yet to answer. Do you agree with me that pedophilia is evil? Or do I just not understand the pedophile's world view well enough?
Comment: 10-4 as evil as it gets. What about the guys who tried to cover it up. Bonner and Hassert? Are they evil doers too or just enablers? I'll never forget ole Rusbo doing damage control for the Pedophiles by comparing it to Bill and Monica and Barney Frank.
Comment: Bella12,
Lukeal is notspeaking of is our country's actions today. He's saying the founding fathers we terrorists because they used unconventional tactics, just like the jihadists of today. Read our whole thread.
Comment: I did, my bad. I'm running hot today. I'll put myself in timeout for a while. sorry
Comment: Even to confirm the identity of any of the carriers with whom administration officials have discussed the surveillance issue would implicitly identify the carriers that participated in the program and therefore "would provide our adversaries with a road map"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What a joke. Everyone already KNOWS which carriers have participated in this program: AT&T, Verizon, etc. All of them did except Quest, whose top executive got hit with a criminal charge by the Justice Department that looks suspiciously like punishment for Quest's refusal to do its "patriotic" duty.
Comment: Luke al, Easy there with the we. The President is supposed to protect and defend his nation. He is supposed to uphold the constitution. When your President lies to you it shouldm't be readily apparrent. Who would have thought a group like the Bush/Cheney gang would be willing to send people to their deaths based on lies and deciet. we know what they are capable of doing now and we'll see it coming the next time. But, don't include yourself and any of the other real americans for what this scum has done.we are not terrorist. The Bush/Cheney/rice/Powell/rumsfeld/Blair gang fits that description.
Comment: Luke al, Easy there with the we. The President is supposed to protect and defend his nation. He is supposed to uphold the constitution. When your President lies to you it shouldm't be readily apparrent. Who would have thought a group like the Bush/Cheney gang would be willing to send people to their deaths based on lies and deciet. we know what they are capable of doing now and we'll see it coming the next time. But, don't include yourself and any of the other real americans for what this scum has done.we are not terrorist. The Bush/Cheney/rice/Powel
