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Honor Thy Father

A daughter's memoir roils her family and the Episcopal Church.

By Jennie Yabroff | NEWSWEEK
May 12, 2008 Issue

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  • Posted By: Corazon1220 @ 05/09/2008 2:51:56 PM

    Comment: It disgraces me to read people's posts using the Bible to say homosexuality is wrong. The most basic thing is that the Bible was written BY man...I am very relgious and while I do believe it is the Word of God, I think is is naive and close-minded to think that it was not twisted in someway or another. Read anything about the slave system in America. How many times was the Bible cited saying that it was 'right'. We, as a society, need to be more open minded and understanding of GLtQ individuals (if it even matters I am not GLTQ). You mean spritied people will be the ones who 'reap what you sow' and will be judged in the end.

  • Posted By: fin14 @ 05/09/2008 5:45:24 AM

    Comment: The 'revolutionary" challenge to the Law of Moses and to the Roman occupiers offered by Jesus was/is to love one another as we are loved, and our enemies as ourselves. Not surprisingly this got him killed. Reading the comments that sound so angry and express that anger with name calling, harsh judgement and a sense of righteousness leaves me sad... but it does help me understand how it could be that Jesus was crucified.

  • Posted By: fin14 @ 05/09/2008 5:43:48 AM

    Comment: The 'revolutionary" challenge to the Law of Moses and to the Roman occupiers offered by Jesus was/is to love one another as we are loved, and our enemies as ourselves. Not surprisingly this got him killed. Reading the comments that sound so angry and express that anger with name calling, harsh judgement and a sense of righteousness leaves me sad... but it does help me understand how it could be that Jesus was crucified.

  • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 3:19:08 AM

    Comment: P.S. If anyone else wants to give the Episcopal or Anglican churches and earful, give them a shout through one of their official websites @ http://www.episcopal.org/

    Thanks for standing up for what is right rather than politically correct!

  • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 2:44:36 AM

    Comment: God have mercy! To the last remaining faithful remant out there not afraid to stick up for their faith or righteousness, please give the Bishop Gene Robinson some feedback regarding his sinful lifestyle @ GRinNH@aol.com. Yes, that is his real email address, which I'm sharing since it's public information at
    http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/bps_adds.html#D. It was bad enough when the Episcopal Church ordained this guy as an openly gay bishop, but now he wants to get married in the church as well? Call me a narrow-minded, bigoted, conservative right-winger hate monger...I don't care! This behavior was wrong when Sodom and Gomorrah burned to the ground, and it's still a perversion today. To the liberals and secular humanist out there, if God or "The Big Bang" designed sex for procreation, then how do you justify homosexual behavior? It serves no "evolutionary end" whatsoever. What is the act an adaptation to? Lack of the opposite sex perhaps? If it's OK to be gay, then why can't adults have sexual relationships with consenting minors? Why can't NAMBLA members openly practice what they seek to do in the closet? What's next, legalizing beastiality? A lot of people LOVE their pets, so why not allow them to make it legal?

    I don't care how so called religious people try to justify the gay lifestyle, it can't honestly be done by quoting Scripture. In the past, Scripture twisting has been used to justify slavery and denying women suffrage. Despite what Bishop Robinson states, the one and only true God did NOT tell him that his lifestyle was OK. Nor can he truthfully justify his deviant behavior by using the Christian Bible. No where in Scripture does God endorse homosexual behavior. The Episcopal church should be cut off from the worldwide Anglican church. They are an embarrassment to Christians the world over...yet they have no shame in their sin...

    No wonder why fanatical Muslims hate Christians and the USA given the conduct of this organization!

    • Posted By: Confessoressa @ 05/12/2008 11:57:39

      Comment: Being gay has absolutely nothing to do with having sex with minors. Two able-minded adults are able to discern for themselves if the love between them is good or bad and they don't need other adults deciding for them. I could find a lot of heterosexual marriages between consenting adults out there that I deem harmful but it is not my right or my duty to tell them what to do. I wish that Christians would keep there nose out of the rest of the world's business. And that, my friend, is the reason that some Muslims hate Christians because it has been happening for a millenia.

  • Posted By: Miranda Rose @ 05/09/2008 1:59:21 AM

    Comment: Everyone claims that the Bible speaks out against homosexual relationships. I must be missing something somewhere, I wish that someone could tell me the exact scriptures that speak out against this. People speak of judging others, but yet the comments made in the post that I have read is exactly that judging. The Bible has been interperted in so many ways, that each religion translates as they see fit. The Bible states that GOD is a loving and forgiving God. Our lives were layed out for from the time of birth, how we choose to live is given freely to us by the grace of God.

    • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 02:53:46

      Comment: The Biblical witness is clearly against the practice of homosexuality. God did not intend for male and male, or female and female to have sexual relations. As the popular saying goes, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" The OT clearly condemns homosexuality. The Law of Moses said, "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; c.f 20:13).

      The OT also condemns "sodomites," which were male temple prostitutes (I Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; II Kings 23:7). Some would argue that these male prostitutes were for the female worshippers, but it was primarily the males who involved themselves in the cultic worship of the pagan temples. The male prostitutes were for the purpose of homosexual acts with other men.

      The NT is just as clear on this issue as is the OT. In Romans 1 Paul was demonstrating how the Gentiles have failed to live up to the revelation of God given them. He wrote of the many evils they did while suppressing the knowledge of God revealed to them (Romans 1:18-21). Such evils included idolatry, fornication, maliciousness, disobedience to parents, hate for God, inventions of evil things, and homosexuality.. Paul plainly declared, "Because of this [the suppression of truth resulting in idolatry], God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27, NIV). Although homosexuality is not named as such here, the act of homosexuality is clearly described. It was in judgment that God allowed men and women to have sexual relations with the same sex, but they did receive in themselves their due punishment for such indecent acts.

      In conclusion, the sin of homosexuality is debase, but homosexuals are in need of salvation as are all other sinners. We are to love the sinner, but hate his/her sin. All people are valuable and should be loved simply because they are created in God???s image, and had their sins paid for by Jesus Christ at Calvary. We must respect homosexuals as human beings, but never condone or accept their ungodly behavior. There is a difference between our position as to the moral nature of homosexuality, and our personal feelings towards homosexuals. Some Christians have confused these two issues, allowing their position to influence their feelings toward the homosexual person in a negative, hateful manner. Such an attitude is unchristian. Let us make it clear to our world that we love all people because they are created in God's image, but must stand in opposition to their sin against our loving Savior.



  • Posted By: malachifogle @ 05/09/2008 1:57:38 AM

    Comment: he will reap what is sows.

  • Posted By: INKA @ 05/09/2008 1:23:06 AM

    Comment: I suggest that all of you read Conversations with God for different take on life and religion. Stop judging. Stop condemning. Free yourself. No one is better than anyone else...We all are children of God, God is good and He loves you.Amen.

  • Posted By: INKA @ 05/09/2008 1:21:44 AM

    Comment: I suggest that all of you read Conversations with God for different take on life and religion. Stop judging. Stop condemning. Free yourself. No one is better than anyone else...We all are children of God, God is good and He loves you.

    • Posted By: lutherjr @ 05/09/2008 01:44:38

      Comment: Yes I agree,we are not suppose to judge one another and god does love us all. Every time i read about a gay priest or gay bishop,people are going on about God not saying homosexuality is a sin and I would just like to know if these people read the bible and if so which one?My bible tells me that its wrong for a man to lay with another man as a man would his wife,and my only concern is the fact that a man cannot truely teach about god if he is telling everyone that its ok to be gay,when if he has read the bible he knows thats not true.A real man of God would not knowingly teach someone to go against gods word.I have allways been tought satan was the one who does that!

  • Posted By: want to change @ 05/09/2008 12:27:13 AM

    Comment: I do believe we are living in the final days. The fact that children don't have any role models. Priest's are marrying into the same sex. Kids are way out of control,you can't even correct them without interference from the authorities. The Bible says that daughters will rise up against their mothers and sons against their fathers. The reason that the world is falling apart is truly because of greed. What ever happened to morals. We really do need GOD to right the wrongs of mankind. The LORD did it once in Noah's day and we still haven't learned from that. Come quickly LORD JESUS. I know in my heart that I deserve whatever punishment happens to me. I can only hope that others do also. Repent!!!!!!!!!! and the world shall be saved. tomdonahue51@yahoo.com I welcome your thoughts. GOD BLESS us all.

  • Posted By: 2008melton @ 05/08/2008 10:46:46 PM

    Comment: It doesn't matter what people in this world think. The Bible hasn't changed and he never will either. People in this world tink they can do what ever they want and get away with it . But remember in Noah's day God everyone but Noah and his family ,WHY? Because of the badness of men. Jesus said our day would be like Noah' day. The world is so bad toay God will soon destory it He says it will not be late. So think about that!

  • Posted By: 2008melton @ 05/08/2008 10:24:35 PM

    Comment: 2008melton

  • Posted By: Ravi Kumar @ 05/08/2008 8:33:35 PM

    Comment: Perhaps the Austrian Incest case FATHER too should justify his actions of LOVE towards his daughter in the same manner
    IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM
    Animals are better than humans. Are they not, because they are free to have as many with whosoever

    • Posted By: Ravi Kumar @ 05/08/2008 20:43:07

      Comment: Very True

  • Posted By: likestothink55 @ 05/08/2008 7:32:04 PM

    Comment: Boy, we are so full of it. We say we are a free country, yet the basic frreedom of being able to choose who we love is denied, let alone choose who we marry. We have really got it wrong...

  • Posted By: likestothink55 @ 05/08/2008 7:29:44 PM

    Comment: Boy, we say we are a free country. We are not even free to love who we wish, let alone marry them. We have so much all wrong.

    • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 02:58:17

      Comment: Move to the American northeast or Scandinavia, it's legal there! However, you can "love" whoever you want to, in or out of the closet. There is nothing stopping you and the government endorses "diversity".

  • Posted By: RevDak44 @ 05/08/2008 7:00:35 PM

    Comment: Ah yes! The same old conservative Holier-Than-Thou Old Testament hypocrites spewing their self-inspired theologies. C'mon people, you have oodles of Bible Translations to choose from and you still settle for the lazy man's version. It's the 21st Century, good folks! Let Jesus off the Cross already yet!!! Good Friday is long gone and Easter Sunday has happened! Let it go!
    George M Melby, Pastor

    • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 02:49:40

      Comment: I hate to bring up this sore point for you, but since when did the interpretation of the Bible change from when it was written to the 21st century? What exactly changed other than society's moral fiber. What kind of pastor are you, sir? Hopefully not a very popular or influential one. Aren't you a hypocrite, too? If you have ever sinned, then you are no better than the "holier than thou Old Testament hypocrites". Jesus came to fullfill the Old Testament, NOT replace it with an "anything goes" grace. Put forth your argument.

  • Posted By: RevDak44 @ 05/08/2008 6:56:55 PM

    Comment: Ah yes! More Holier-Than Thou Old Testament hypocrites who espouse the lazy theology of same sex naughtiness. C'mon...it's the 21st Century. Time to let Jesus off the Cross, okay. Please??? :-)
    George M Melby, Pastor

  • Posted By: roseE @ 05/08/2008 6:54:55 PM

    Comment: Lately i have done some deep thinking about the issue of homosexuality. I find it confusing when people start saying that God is against homosexuality and these same people say that God is perfect. Since God created us all then he must not have made a mistake even with the homosexuals. So if one is saying that homosexual is bad, then one is essentially saying that God made a mistake and as such is not perfect. perhaps it is time we all thought deeply about this issue from all angles.

    • Posted By: lutherjr @ 05/09/2008 01:26:14

      Comment: My god is a perfect god.Yes god created everyone including murderers and so forth,but god didnt teach them to do the things they do.And as far as homosexuality,God does speak against it when the bible tells us men shall not lye with men.Read it its in there.My god is a very forgiving god and forgives all sins but theres a difference in someone knowingly and willfully sinning,and all the time calling himself a man of god.God says homosexuality is wrong,I dont think a man should or could really teach the word of God if he himself cant or wont live by it

    • Posted By: cptphil @ 05/08/2008 22:25:06

      Comment: This would be a sound arguement except for the fact that the Bible records that the creation that was created "good" later became corrputed by evil

      • Posted By: semana @ 05/09/2008 18:43:16

        Comment: God did not write the Bible!!! Men did!! Not even the women had a say in it!!! God made homosexuals, and God did not make murderers, since you are not born a murderer !!!!

      • Posted By: lutherjr @ 05/09/2008 01:06:59

        Comment: Ill have you know My god is a perfict god,He makes no mistakes! Furthermore God does in fact speak against homosexuality and that it is wrong.I dont read the bible as much as I should,but i do know the bible does speak against men laying with men! Read it its in there. The title "Gay Bishop"is a contradiction in itself, You cannot call yourself a man of god and teach gods word if you cannot live it ,and are knowingly and willingly sinning.

    • Posted By: cptphil @ 05/08/2008 22:22:14

      Comment: That logic works provided you over look the account of the Fall, when, as it is illumined in Romans, all of creation became corrupted by the infection of evil/sin.

  • Posted By: imabeliever @ 05/08/2008 6:22:07 PM

    Comment: Whether it be a Catholic priest/bishop, a baptist minister, an Episcopal priest/bishop, or any religeous leader, if they cannot keep their vows as a religious leader and/or their marriage vows, they have no business continuing to represent themselves as a "religious leader" of the faithful members of their denomination. They are hypocrites and pretenders that maintain their secret lives in order to continue to receive their paychecks, to hold on to whatever "power" they have or want, and to maintain their undeserved "respectability". Sadly they cause ministers and priests that do live up to their vows to undeservedly be viewed with suspicion.
    P.S.
    Re "..perhaps if celibacy were not a requirement for the Catholic priesthood, this wouldn't have occurred": This is both a fallacy and a smokescreen, not of the previous poster "paulte", but of many of the "faithful" who would like to believe that this had to be a homosexual thing. The most believeable conclusion arrived at regarding this issue by a number of theorists (inside and outside the church) that have researched it indicate that there is a common trait (though not homosexuality) that predominates amongst MOST of the priest abusers and that this similarity is shared by many (perhaps most) of the child abusers in the rest of society and that is that they are individuals that never learned how to establish relationships with their peers in their youth. They were "darlings" to their elders who were always impressed with how they (unlike most youth) seemed to enjoy being around their elders more than being around other youth their own age. They also preferred to be around much younger children who would look up to them (show them the "respect" and affection they never got or earned from their peers) and who were more easily manipulated. Many of them in early adulthood were "loners". The Catholic church did not do a good job of assessing their suitability for the priesthood beyond their ability to assimilate scripture and the canons of the church, and then exacerbated the problem by not booting them at the first sign of their "proclivities", instead covering it up in many cases.
    If you read the newspapers you have probably observed that the abuse and the covering up happens in many if not all denominations, the coverup believed to be "justified" by the denominations' desire to avoid the certain scandal. Both the Methodist and Catholic churches (and there are probably several others) now require all clergy, church staff, and volunteers who might in any way come in contact with children and/or vulnerable adults to go through training that not only mandates that they are never to be alone with children and/or vulnerable adults in any setting that is not observed by others and they are also trained to watch vigilantly for anyone who appears to be attempting to violate this mandate for ANY re

  • Posted By: RonE @ 05/08/2008 5:38:50 PM

    Comment: When men like Moore and Robinson say god is okay with thier sexuality,. Please tell me the name of YOUR god and what is the Bible YOU are reading? The Law which was given to the Israleites is clear, it states YOU MUST NOT sleep with a MAN like YOU sl;eep with a woman. Which part of this do you not understand? YOU or MUST NOT? It is not rocket science. Romans 1:25-27 is explicit and poignant on the subject and it tells YOU what Jehovah God thinks about your sex life, and your everlasiting life. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN, As a matter of fact YOU aren't getting a resurrection, because YOU are a PRACTICER OF FORNICATION and this is condemned by Jehovah God.Gay or Straigt.
    Incidentally don't say, "I am a Christians because nothing about fornication refects what Jesus Chris was like guiless and abstinatet. PLEASE!
    RonE Lee85326

    • Posted By: RevDak44 @ 05/08/2008 19:18:42

      Comment: One other thing...your statement: "and what is the Bible YOU are reading? The Law which was given to the Israleites is clear..." You're right on target, Ron. It was for the ISRAELITES!!! No comprehende???
      Think about it for a bit...it will become clearer and clearer.
      GMM, Pastor

      • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 03:08:04

        Comment: You're an idiot, plain and simple. I hate to personally attack people, but with you I will make an exception!
        Where in the Bible, Mr. Pastor, does it say that the New Testament replaces the Old Testament or that Christ came to abolish The Law? You sound just like Robinson and Moore; either too drunk from your sin to see straight or totally deceived. Jewish dietary laws and the Ten Commandments are two different things. Just because the Torah was given to the Israelites does NOT mean that gentiles are to disregard the Torah in the name of grace. Or did you miss that semester in Bible school? I believe that stealing and murder are still sins whether Jew or Gentile, capice? Don't go off on others with your superiority complex!

        Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament, not replace it. You would know that if you were really a pastor...

    • Posted By: RevDak44 @ 05/08/2008 19:15:29

      Comment: Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......Jehovah God...Jehovah God....where have I heard of......OH!!! YOU'RE A Jehovah's Witness!!! You need to catch up with your own teachings...JW's have now moved INTO the New Testament and actually believe Jesus died for our sins. How unique! Best wishes on your new-found knowledge. It's about time!
      You spew too much hate to be an effective witness....better do some more Christian exercises in humility and love. They really good for one's....witness!
      George M Melby, Pastor

      • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 03:11:46

        Comment: I would choose an LDS brother over you any day of the week! They may have some tweaked theology and doctrine, but at least the majority of them really do try to practice what they preach. If you throw out the polygamy issue, your morals pale in comparison to John & Jane Mormon...

        What "church" do you pastor, anyway? I need to pray for your flock that they find a good replacement!

    • Posted By: ohwisewon @ 05/08/2008 18:49:47

      Comment: God is very clear about not judging others, that is why I am thankful that he forgives me for my sins. I do plenty of judging. I cannot believe that someone would actually SAY, "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN." I know that God will forgive you for saying such a thing. What is sad is that we cannot forgive others when they sin. Homosexuality, if one believes it is a sin at all, is certainly not a sin AGAINST RonE Lee. We are commanded to forgive our brother 70 times 7 when he sins against us. How much greater is the forgiveness and compassion of God? Jesus tells us how to interpret the "Law of Moses" that you are teaching when you condemn this bishop. John 8: 4-11 is very clear that one without sin is the only one who should judge, and Jesus tells the sinful woman, "Neither do I condemn you." I am sorry that I was so judgemental to you RonE Lee, I am sure you are very kind to some people, please remember that we should forgive ALL people, including Samaritans.

  • Posted By: dlopez192003 @ 05/08/2008 5:07:10 PM

    Comment: Again, this is merely a comment/opinion: I have no problem with the fact that they were gay. HOWEVER, why get married if these clergymen are just going to have affairs?!? If you are gay, then be gay. It's terrible that one would be MARRIED-making a lifelong commitment just to go and cheat and lie. It's discouraging.

  • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 05/08/2008 5:00:00 PM

    Comment: God holds Bishops, Priests, Pastors, etc. to a higher standard as stewards of his teachings and the Bible. There is no room for compromise. Yes will are all technically sinners, but when one dictates his life with the flesh and not with the practicing and will of moral value, then he is not following God, but following .........

    • Posted By: miamijer @ 05/09/2008 03:14:11

      Comment: Good & very valid point!

  • Posted By: paulte @ 05/08/2008 3:06:40 PM

    Comment: I think it all depends on whether her father would have minded the revelation of bisexuality to be made public. Since he was a flaming liberal, I guess he would have supported his daughter's decision to make it public. Liberals are into spilling their guts all over the place!

    It's really very sad though when a person is a bishop and he can't even keep his marriage vows. A lot has been said about the homosexual nature of the abuse crisis in the Catholic Church and how perhaps if celibacy were not a requirement for the Catholic priesthood, this wouldn't have occurred. However, the case of Bishop Moore shows that married priests don't always keep their marriage vows. And the most horrific case of sexual abuse on record was by a heterosexual, married, father in Austria.

    I think the bottom line is that actual goodness and most especially purity of heart is very rare among humans. The Beatitudes say: "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God." The clear implication is that those who are not pure of heart will never see God, will never be in his presence.

  • Posted By: paulte @ 05/08/2008 3:06:32 PM

    Comment: I think it all depends on whether her father would have minded the revelation of bisexuality to be made public. Since he was a flaming liberal, I guess he would have supported his daughter's decision to make it public. Liberals are into spilling their guts all over the place!

    It's really very sad though when a person is a bishop and he can't even keep his marriage vows. A lot has been said about the homosexual nature of the abuse crisis in the Catholic Church and how perhaps if celibacy were not a requirement for the Catholic priesthood, this wouldn't have occurred. However, the case of Bishop Moore shows that married priests don't always keep their marriage vows. And the most horrific case of sexual abuse on record was by a heterosexual, married, father in Austria.

    I think the bottom line is that actual goodness and most especially purity of heart is very rare among humans. The Beatitudes say: "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God." The clear implication is that those who are not pure of heart will never see God, will never be in his presence.

 
 
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