The 1953 Short Creek raid taught authorities a valuable lesson.
Comment: (according to a historical posting on the web) A US Army contingent under the command of Rufus Ingals was dispatched to Utah in 1854 to investigate the killing of Army Surveyor John W. Gunnison. Upon their departure from the region in the Spring of 1855 they took with them 100 "escaping" mormon women. To read about this adventure visit http://rufusingalls.tripod.com/steptoe_expedition.htm. Go figure.
Comment: Male ego and domination-Brainwashing. That's is all this amounts to. I am open minded, if a man can afford to have a large family, that's great.. But not if the tax payers are footing the bill. arranged marriages fine, but there is an ethical age that one must adhere to. and the girl always has the last say. This is her protection against abuse. And I find something disturbing about a Father that willingly Passes his Daughter around .amoung his friends.
Comment: Look past poligamy.......follow the money !!!!! Where do these cults, Hare Krishna, Jim Jones, Yearning for Zion get their assets? How many of the followers, wives and children are on social security, medicade and other federal and state grants? Why? Are these cults protected as religious organizations and hence, pay no tax? Why? How can this many mothers give their daughters to cousins, uncles and older men for a sham "marriage" and sex. Why? Why? Why?
Comment: Yes you do see children being given back to crackhead Moms, don't kid yourself. We live in a small communtiy (900) and a small county (14,000) and we are personally aware of many children kept in the homes of incompetent drug moms with fornication and drugs and alcohol in their lives. Many of these children are permanantly brain damaged form the tertogenic effects of alcohol and drugs (alcohol is really the worst because it is a solvent and goes through blood-brain barrier and the placental barrier). These children grow up and become problems to society.,We deal with this every day.
Comment: Yes you do see children being given back to crackhead Moms, don't kid yourself. We live in a small communtiy (900) and a small county (14,000) and we are personally aware of many children kept in the homes of incompetent drug moms with fornication and drugs and alcohol in their lives. Many of these children are permanantly brain damaged form the tertogenic effects of alcohol and drugs (alcohol is really the worst because it is a solvent and goes through blood-brain barrier and the placental barrier). These children grow up and become problems to society.,We deal with this every day.
Comment: In the State of New Hampsire it is legal for a 13 year old girl to marry with parental consent. In most all other states the age is 16. Hell, Jerry lee lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Men marry Men, Woman marry Woman in Hawaii. THAT WHATS LEGAL. Its also legal for a nba player to father muliple children with multiple women wthout marriage and let the courts of law decide who liable. But no human being should be forced or coereced into marriage
Comment: In the State of New Hampsire it is legal for a 13 year old girl to marry with parental consent. In most all other states the age is 16. Hell, Jerry lee lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Men marry Men, Woman marry Woman in Hawaii. THAT WHATS LEGAL. Its also legal for a nba player to father muliple children with multiple women wthout marriage and let the courts of law decide who liable. But no human being should be forced or coereced into marriage
Comment: The fact of the matter is Polygamy is illegal in this country is all that anyone should be worried about here. Those children need to be put in homes that are not practicing things that are illegal; we don't let crack heads keep their kids because of the dangers surrounding the mothers situation (i.e. drugs, weapons, abuse) so why would we allow children in a polygamist camp stay with their mothers? The rule to this land is to either accept freedom and the responsibilities that go with those freedoms or get the heck out, its simple. The "norm" for these people is to enslave the minds of young girls and marry them off before they are even legally allowed to be married in this country to men who can at times even be family members- this is just wrong in legal terms. As for their religious beliefs, yes they are free to believe what they want as we all are- but you don't see me out sacrificing animals or children for mine...because it is ILLEGAL. Get your heads out of your bums people, freedom still has boundaries - it is not a pass to do whatever you darn well please.
Comment: The fact of the matter is Polygamy is illegal in this country is all that anyone should be worried about here. Those children need to be put in homes that are not practicing things that are illegal; we don't let crackwhores keep their kids because of the dangers surrounding the mothers situation (i.e. drugs, weapons, abuse) so why would we allow children in a polygamist camp stay with their mothers? The rule to this land is to either accept freedom and the responsibilities that go with those freedoms or get the heck out, its simple. The "norm" for these people is to enslave the minds of young girls and marry them off before they are even legally allowed to be married in this country to men who can at times even be family members- this is just wrong in legal terms. As for their religious beliefs, yes they are free to believe what they want as we all are- but you don't see me out sacrificing animals or children for mine...because it is ILLEGAL. Get your heads out of your bums people, freedom still has boundaries - it is not a pass to do whatever you darn well please.
Comment: The fact of the matter is Polygamy is illegal in this country is all that anyone should be worried about here. Those children need to be put in homes that are not practicing things that are illegal; we don't let crackwhores keep their kids because of the dangers surrounding the mothers situation (i.e. drugs, weapons, abuse) so why would we allow children in a polygamist camp stay with their mothers? The rule to this land is to either accept freedom and the responsibilities that go with those freedoms or get the heck out, its simple. The "norm" for these people is to enslave the minds of young girls and marry them off before they are even legally allowed to be married in this country to men who can at times even be family members- this is just wrong in legal terms. As for their religious beliefs, yes they are free to believe what they want as we all are- but you don't see me out sacrificing animals or children for mine...because it is ILLEGAL. Get your heads out of your bums people, freedom still has boundaries - it is not a pass to do whatever you darn well please.
Comment: I found an article on the 'lost boys' in the Denver Post. Apparently the issue of disenfranchising teenage males was a real issue in other FLDS locations BUT the article states that the teenage boys at Elderado were not treated that way because they are considered favored.
I think this practice is reprehensible but I'm not sure if there is any law broken on this issue Are there any laws regarding the abandonment of a minor?.
Comment: b
Comment: To me they are all a bunch of dirty old men abusing innocent children.
Comment: To me they are all a bunch of dirty old men abusing innocent children.
Comment: Mormons are a bunch of lunatics. They should all be arrested and shipped away.
Comment: So, based on what fact should I be shipped away? Married to one woman, 2 children, keep the bills paid, try to be as nice as I can to people. Done a tour overseas. Please I need to know what I did that I need to be arrested and sent away?
Comment: No Nazi's should be arrested and shipped away
Comment: sjbrock80 = HITLER
Comment: This is NOT polygamy. Are the women - are these teenaged girls - allowed to marry several men if they so choose? Are they allowed ANY choice before they're handed off to be raped? No. This is the sexual enslavement of teenaged girls - these are harems, not "families." The concept of plural marriages between consenting adults (that is, both genders have choice and give consent, not just the men) has nothing to do with these situations.
Comment: Good Point!!! Thank you. This is no poligamy in the complete sence. This is SEX!!! Just old fasioned SEX... masked in religion... o well
Comment: You can't believe everything you read...
Comment: You can't believe everything you read...
Comment: you can't get objective reports in america,the media is full of liberals and their hidden agenda's!
Comment: Has MSNBC been bought by the Clintons..? Since the suspension of Shuster who I consider said nothing that deserved to be suspended the entire MSNBC news casters pundits and even Chris Matthews have caved in to the Clintons."hardball" has become "softball". There is no objective reporting on MSNBC.
Comment: Ok, we need understand that we are dealing with a religious belief no matter how strange it may seem it is still their belief's and these people will see these actions as religious prosecutions. No matter what the outcome of this it will be the children that will suffer the most and like it or not the group will reconstitute itself and begin again. You or the state can not interfear in religious beliefs unless someone is harmed, repress religious beliefs, history has shown us that much it would be best to come to a
Comment: MegaYacht, God's law states that everyone must abide by the laws of the land. Screwing little girls for any reason (including planting the seed of Jesus) is just perverted.
Comment: Ok, we need understand that we are dealing with a religious belief no matter how strange it may seem it is still their belief's and these people will see these actions as religious prosecutions. No matter what the outcome of this it will be the children that will suffer the most and like it or not the group will reconstitute itself and begin again. You or the state can not interfear in religious beliefs unless someone is harmed, repress religious beliefs, history has shown us that much it would be best to come to a
Comment: Ok, we need understand that we are dealing with a religious belief no matter how strange it may seem it is still their belief's and these people will see these actions as religious prosecutions. No matter what the outcome of this it will be the children that will suffer the most and like it or not the group will reconstitute itself and begin again. You or the state can not repress religious beliefs, history has shown us that much it would be best to come to a workable compromise with these people.
Comment: the state has always acted under the pretense that it is the peoples ruler. or that it owns our children.
Comment: A polygamist is a RESPONSIBLE father in comparision to hooker who leaves behind a pregnant teenager and a yet to be born sin. If, someone call to ban adultry I am with him to ban polygamy, but, if you allow men and women to have extramarrital sex, produce babies and single parents then POLYGAMY is less evil then adultry/prostitution.
Comment: There's a major difference between adults that WILLINGLY have sex with each other and have children out of wedlock, and children who are basically raped by older men. These 14 year old girls would never willingly sleep with a 60 year old man, come on! They're forced to have children when they're still kids themselves.
Comment: A MUSLIM IN FAVOR OF POLYGAMY?.....I KNOW I'M SHOCKED?!!?/ AHAHAHAHAH
Comment: Hi FATJOEY is there any thing wrong in being a MUSLIM, I am proud of that, at the same time I believe in freedom to practice any religion. Study ISLAM and you will be surprised to know how beautiful is the way of life, which Islam propagates.
Comment: sorry about the multiple posts. was having prolems posting here.
Comment: The problem here is the due process of law. Every American has Constitutional rights that legal authorities cannot side step. I've read all sorts of assumptions about what goes on within the FLDS community but no real facts. By some people's standards, we should all be prosecuted whenever any of our leaders do something wrong. It would be like, if there was a break in at the local school suspected by multiple teenagers and the authorities suspected a teenager in our neighborhood and then decided because they believe there were more than one, they would arrest every teenager in the neighborhood. Can you imagine seeing your son or daughter being hauled off just because they lived in the same neighborhood as one of the suspects. I think this is a good analogy to what is going on here.
The state has legals rights to do investigations and prosecute crimes but have to follow the law
As to polygamy, if there are no legal marriages, it's not polygamy. Having sex with multiple partners is not against the law. In everyday society there are people who are promiscuous who have sex with multiple partners. It is only illegal to be married to mulitple partners.
As to the "lost boys". Has anybody seen factual news articles on this subject. I know the main line mormons have their teenage boys do a mandatory year of missions. This is not pushing them out or abandoning them. I think requireing chartible work experience as part of a teenagers education is admirable. I don't know if this is FLDS's practice so I would be interested to know if this is where the assumptions of 'lost boys' is coming from.
I would like to see the state do a proper investigation rather than a communistic style abduction. Let those who break laws be prosecuted for those laws but lifestyle engineering threatens all of our constitutional rights.
Comment: Every American has Constitutional rights that legal authorities cannot side step. .... La La La... a sweet song... Dude, Our rights are gone, and accountability in America is lowr then a dirt floor Mexican jailhouse
Comment: The problem here is the due process of law. Every American has Constitutional rights that legal authorities cannot side step. I've read all sorts of assumptions about what goes on within the FLDS community but no real facts. By some people's standards, we should all be prosecuted whenever any of our leaders do something wrong. It would be like, if there was a break in at the local school suspected by multiple teenagers and the authorities suspected a teenager in our neighborhood and then decided because they believe there were more than one, they would arrest every teenager in the neighborhood. Can you imagine seeing your son or daughter being hauled off just because they lived in the same neighborhood as one of the suspects. I think this is a good analogy to what is going on here.
The state has legals rights to do investigations and prosecute crimes but have to follow the law
As to polygamy, if there are no legal marriages, it's not polygamy. Having sex with multiple partners is not against the law. In everyday society there are people who are promiscuous who have sex with multiple partners. It is only illegal to be married to mulitple partners.
As to the "lost boys". Has anybody seen factual news articles on this subject. I know the main line mormons have their teenage boys do a mandatory year of missions. This is not pushing them out or abandoning them. I think requireing chartible work experience as part of a teenagers education is admirable. I don't know if this is FLDS's practice so I would be interested to know if this is where the assumptions of 'lost boys' is coming from.
I would like to see the state do a proper investigation rather than a communistic style abduction. Let those who break laws be prosecuted for those laws but lifestyle engineering threatens all of our constitutional rights.
Comment: The problem here is the due process of law. Every American has Constitutional rights that legal authorities cannot side step. I've read all sorts of assumptions about what goes on within the FLDS community but no real facts. By some people's standards, we should all be prosecuted whenever any of our leaders do something wrong. It would be like, if there was a break in at the local school suspected by multiple teenagers and the authorities suspected a teenager in our neighborhood and then decided because they believe there were more than one, they would arrest every teenager in the neighborhood. Can you imagine seeing your son or daughter being hauled off just because they lived in the same neighborhood as one of the suspects. I think this is a good analogy to what is going on here.
The state has legals rights to do investigations and prosecute crimes but have to follow the law
As to polygamy, if there are no legal marriages, it's not polygamy. Having sex with multiple partners is not against the law. In everyday society there are people who are promiscuous who have sex with multiple partners. It is only illegal to be married to mulitple partners.
As to the "lost boys". Has anybody seen factual news articles on this subject. I know the main line mormons have their teenage boys do a mandatory year of missions. This is not pushing them out or abandoning them. I think requireing chartible work experience as part of a teenagers education is admirable. I don't know if this is FLDS's practice so I would be interested to know if this is where the assumptions of 'lost boys' is coming from.
I would like to see the state do a proper investigation rather than a communistic style abduction. Let those who break laws be prosecuted for those laws but lifestyle engineering threatens all of our constitutional rights.
Comment: The problem is in how to investigate and prosecute illegal activity. Everyone in America has Constitutoinal rights and the right to due process. The governement never has the right to side step the Constitution and individual's legal rights of due process. Many people are appalled by what they think is going on inside this community but they don't factual know what is going on. People are assuming all sorts of things. By some people's standards, if one of our leader's is prosecuted for something, we should all be prosecuted. I would love to see factual investigations into whether "lost boys" exist or is an assumption made up by the public. Mormons have a history of sending their every teenage males to do one year of missions work, which I think is admirable to mandate charitable work. If that is the case, they are not being pushed out and abandoned. I don't actually know whether the FLDS is practicing missions or the abandonment that some are assuming.
The state has rights to do investigations when the circumstances fit within the law but this smells of going outside of their legal authority. For example, if a group of teenagers broke into a nearby elementary school in your area and the authorities indentified one of the suspects to be in your neighborhood but had reason to believe there were more involved, so the authorities arrested all the teenagers in your neighborhood without any information that the other teenagers were involved. This is an abuse of authority outside of the due process of law. I think the same is true here. An investigation needs to take place and only those involved should be prosecuted not the entire community.
As to the polygamy thing, if they are not legally married, it's not polygamy. People having sex with more than one partner is not against the law. It happens everywhere in promiscuous minded individuals. The difference is that these people are doing it while cohabitating.
Comment: Have we considered the number of teenage pregnancy in the "normal" setting. How about the percentage of unwed mothers. Is it really that different from the number of teenagers who are pregnant or already mothers at this sect? I don't necessarily agree with plural marriages but we do have freedom of religion in this country. If you say that plural marriages or letting teenagers marry older men is unacceptable, then who will pay for the same problems we ALL have in society.
I was a teenager when I became pregnant with my first born. My parents raised me to believe that I should wait until marriage to have sex but I didn't listen. Should my parents be held accountable for my own actions? Should they be held in high esteem for encouraging the marriage between me and the father?
Comment: thank all the bleeding heart liberals from the 50's for pedifilia err i mean polygamy!!!
Comment: thank all the bleeding heart liberals from the 50's for pedifilia err i mean polygamy!!!
Comment: Sexual abuse of children is and certainly should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- it should not be tolerated at all! But polygamy? Why people think they have a right to judge others simply because they want to enter into a plural marriage is beyond me. Polygamy laws are outdated and were instituted to satisfy religous zealots and, in my opinion should go by the way-side much like the old "blue" laws -- again instituted by religous beliefs. It is not the plural marriage families hiding behind religion as much as we (yes, I am not a polygamist) hide behind these arcane beliefs to prosecute others who are not compelled to blindly follow the religion docterine of others despite the fact that these religous docterines somehow rediculously made it into the law books. I say live and let live providing that the parents of these children protect with the same love, affection, and freedom of choice afforded children of non-plural marriages. Without the abuse -- trully where is the crime??
Comment: good point, send your 13 yo daughter over to the FLDS camp and let her experience freedom first hand
Comment: The important issues are not about polygamy. What about the teenage boys who are simply set adrift because they would compete for wives in the sect? Newsweek needs to let America know what happens to the hundreds of so-called "lost boys" who are abandoned into the streets, with minimal education and life skills. Let's see the mothers crying about those children.
Comment: Why are they allowed to hind behind their faith like a shield to break the law? Most states including Texas have laws against it but because their religion says so they can do it? Have faith if you need it but follow the laws of where you live instead of expecting exceptions.
Comment: Why are they allowed to hind behind their faith like a shield to break the law? Most states including Texas have laws against it but because their religion says so they can do it? Have faith if you need it but follow the laws of where you live instead of expecting exceptions.
Comment: why is it that they are allowed to be in polygamist marriages when it's illegal anyway? They are hiding behind their faith to break the law. I am all for having your own faith and what not but if it doesn't comply with the law should you be able to hide behind it like a shield?
Comment: Why are the mothers allowed to cry about their children being kidnapped by outsiders? For years, they have been throwing away their teenage boys, and nobody is doing a Newsweek story on that. Don't let these women fool you, if their prophet told them to abandon their children and start over with new families, they would do it.
Comment: The practice is still alive in Salt Lake City and rural areas of Utah. Look for big, big houses, tons of children and only a one or two cars. The neighborhoods around know who the polygamists are and little is done to stop the practice. Go to wholesale club stores on weekends in Utah and watch them use the large carts piled high with supplies and look close to see several women and many kids doing the shopping. Who is billing their bills? Polygamists don't have heath insurance because of the records that would point to multiple wives. So you and I pay their bills.
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