A Firmer Hand

One now hears from time to time about some Israelis who feel their government should be talking to Hamas (the main Islamic Palestinian group that aspires in its charter to Israel's destruction).  The consensus in the administration here is that you don't negotiate with terrorist groups. What's your position?
Well, it's the same silliness that the only people you talk to when you want to make peace are your friends.... We couldn't have negotiated an end to the arms race with the Soviet Union if we didn't talk to them. We couldn't have ended peacefully the conflict in Northern Ireland if the two sides hadn't talk to each other. The notion that you're going to pursue peace without talking to people with whom you have disputes is ludicrous... We don't support Hamas. We reject their beliefs, we reject their actions but it doesn't mean you shouldn't be engaging in diplomacy. That's foreign policy 101.

What common ground would there be?
The common ground you have is with the Palestinian people. And when you put the question to both sides, Israelis and Palestinians, about a real solution, you still get majority support on both sides [for two states]. And as much as Hamas's leadership may well be ideologically motivated, [it] is also, in the end, now a political entity. And if they want to continue being in power and have the support of their people, they're going to have to respond to the will of their people as well. So having that kind of offer on the table is going to help push Hamas and their leaders as well.

And I imagine J Street welcomes the announcement of indirect talks between Israel and  Syria. But critics of the talks argue that Israel is essentially undermining an effort by this administration to isolate Damascus.
J Street disagrees with the Bush administration's approach to dealing with Syria by attempting to isolate it.  We believe a far more effective policy would be to try to coax it out of Iran's orbit into engagement with the west and other moderate Arab influences.  To that end, we support the Israeli decision to follow its own assessment of the best path to follow.

Can you give me an example of an issue that AIPAC has taken a position on over the years where your position might be different?
I would assume that the Hamas question would be one. I think it applies to Iran. There's no question that [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmedinijad is a deranged man who is leading his country off a cliff. But once again we're sort of giving the car a push through the types of policies we're following. We're not denying in any way at J Street that the man is a threat and out of his mind and that the things that he's saying are dangerous and the pursuit of a nuclear weapon by someone like that is intolerable. The question is how do you stop him? And in our view, we think you don't stop him by saber-rattling and only wielding a large stick. You have to have some sort of engagement, some sort of a carrot that not only entices that actual government but makes sure that other forces within Iran know there's an alternative.

In that case, here's a hypothetical question: If Israel ends up attacking Iran to try to put an end to its nuclear program, what would your position be?
I think if it were as easy as that, if it were really possible to launch a simple attack and end the nuclear threat, I don't think we'd be talking about it, I think it would have happened already. It's kind of like saying, would you support Israel trying to go into southern Lebanon to take out Hezbullah? Well, in theory it sounds great. But we saw the reality. You can't go into Lebanon and defeat Hezbullah militarily just as you probably can't go into Gaza and probably defeat Hamas militarily.

But my question is might J Street find itself in a situation where it would be lobbying on an issue that would be counter to what the Israeli government is doing?
Oh, absolutely. We have absolutely no problem taking a position that says the actions and policies of the Israeli government are counterproductive and not in the best interests in our opinion of either Israel or the United States. And I think the reticence to stand up and take those positions has been a real absence in America and one that we're putting an end to.... And by taking these positions we enable a better political and policy debate here in the U.S.