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  • Posted By: eshuster @ 06/03/2008 5:30:18 PM

    I am certain that gay couple has the capacity to love one another. They can be devoted to one another and pledge a lifetime of fidelity. That is not the issue. The issue is that a gay lifestyle is deviant and should not be promoted to our children, nor to our society as being normal or acceptable. Most gay people I talk to would become heterosexual if they could, but they claim they cannot. Regardless of whether I agree with whether they can change or not, I understand their position. The point is that marriage is a sacred institution that must be reserved and respected as that which we want to promote as a society - that being between a man and woman. Once we start promoting gay marriages we become a weaker society and open the doors to other deviant lifestyles and norms. Can we please begin drawing the line in the sand for our country and not allow ourselves to continue to slip further and further into a destructive course for America? We accept gay people in our society - that is enough. I don't want our country to promote it.

  • Posted By: bmayer @ 06/03/2008 5:30:09 PM

    Looking at ancient Rome to boost the legitimacy of gay marriage shows a truly poor grasp of history. Every ancient civilization that "progressed" to the point of normalizing homosexual marriage fell shortly thereafter. If you don't think that civilizations cannot fall today because of all the technology we have trumps moral decadance, you're dreaming. PS, I'm not saying that gay marriage directly caused the fall of Rome or the others, but it is certainly a barometer of the amount of rot a culture has undergone. I guess that the real question is, is it worse that gays are marrying, or that society thinks that it is OK?

  • Posted By: kshortSD @ 06/02/2008 6:47:14 PM

    Wow, there are lots of very closed-minded, fearful people posting here today. Look, for many people, marriage is an institution of love that is granted certain rights by the government. Not everyone is married in a church by a priest. I was married on the beach by a family friend who is a judge. If marriage was required to take place in a church before a priest, maybe we could argue that gay marriage is wrong. BUT IT'S NOT. It is a civil union that can be recorded down at city hall.

    Besides, how can you people decide that others can't marry because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. It doesn't effect you, it doesn't hurt anyone...GET OVER IT AND STOP BEING HATEFUL.

    • Posted By: Eliezer @ 06/02/2008 8:44:25 PM

      In the first place, marriage is not an "institution," but a principle clearly delineated by in the complimentary union of husband and wife in marriage and the sanctification of human sexuality for the purpose of life. The CORPORATE State, dealing in legal FICTION and pretense, can fabricate any illusion IT finds useful, including "gay" marriage. Love cannot be "institutionalized." And whereas the principle OF marriage cannot be defined BY Government, neither is marriage a State sanctioned privilege, but a Divinely conceived schematic and essential foundation of the human family. The hatred displayed by "gay" activists for truth, human dignity and the family, is what is "wrong." So, "get over it" and rejoin the fraternal community. There are many homosexuals who have resolved the psycho-sexual conflict and who are now on their way to becoming emotionally whole men and women. The homo-erotic dysfunction is best described as an arrested gender development and an attempt to compensate, which evolves into an emotional addiction much like alcoholism, but with an added sexual component. The first rule, is to uplift and guard your own dignity as a human being, and as a man. Think about it.

      • Posted By: kshortSD @ 06/02/2008 11:00:46 PM

        Sorry, but marriage is only considered to be "divine" by some people. And until the day in which marriage is defined by the church and the church alone, the state can rightly choose to offer the right of marriage without discrimination. I don't have to think about it...I choose not to hate people who are different.

        • Posted By: Eliezer @ 06/03/2008 12:14:09 AM

          Marriage is not defined by the Church, but by God. The Church is corrupt, and just as pretentious as the Corporate State which is largely predicated upon the Roman model. In fact, Rome is the seat of pretense and FICTION and the Capital building in the District of Columbia is under the occultic sway of Persephony, goddess of the underworld and a contemporary personification of Isis/Mary. Homo-erotic acts are not "different," they are a fundamental corruption and insult to the honor and dignity of God's Presence. When there are irreconcilable differences, divorce must be permitted and facilitated. The principle of marriage is Divinely given - "Male and female made He `"them (man)." Man, complete, is a complimentary composite of husband and wife, and not just a male or just a female. Divine sanction is withdrawn in the face of spiritual impurity which is encouraged by sexual corruption, both at the ritual level and throughout the general population. Time is God's grace by which man is permitted to return to an affirmation of God in his affairs, both private and public. For God to "Bless America," the American people must first bless God - meaning to emulate Him in His ways. God is not only a loving God, but also a perfectly truthful and morally righteous Being. All creation is both of and within Him. He is the perfect Witness to His creation and the Witness within each and every man. The Creator Himself breaths a "living soul" into the body of man which remains connected to it's source. Knowing this, if we fail to provide the soul with IT'S needs, IT surely must destroy the body, both individually and collectively. Divine Providence comes with prerequisites. God favors no religion, only those who stand by Him, of all backgrounds. All the righteous of this world have a place in the world to come. Who are those who will stand with God?

          • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/03/2008 8:30:39 AM

            In America, marriage is defined by the government. Sure, your church probably has its own definitions, but last time I checked the government was running this country. Not your church. Does your church provide welfare, health care, roads, buildings, education, laws, military protection, etc etc?
            Define marriage however you want to. The fact remains that LEGAL marriage in this country MUST be under the rules of the government or you will not enjoy the financial, medical, and other perks that come with being married.

            • Posted By: kshortSD @ 06/03/2008 11:17:42 AM

              I guess there's no convincing some people, huh, Summer? Hatred, discrimination, and intolerance will live on...

              • Posted By: LKateP @ 06/03/2008 3:26:46 PM

                You are absolutely right kshortSD. What I also find very interesting and satisfying is how many people "protest too much". Just like senator Larry Craig, who was arrested in a MN airport bathroom for innappropriate "gay" conduct. Larry Craig is & was one of the biggest proponents for protecting "traditional marriage." It really makes me wonder what Eliezer is hiding. Hmmmm....

                • Posted By: kshortSD @ 06/03/2008 5:24:42 PM

                  Right. I wonder how many of these self righteous religious posters actually live up to their own standards.

                • Posted By: Eliezer @ 06/03/2008 3:43:11 PM

                  A typical and disingenuous projection.

      • Posted By: jp_negri @ 06/03/2008 2:54:27 PM

        Funny, but I don't remember people like you getting all bent out of shape over tv shows like "Who Wants to Marry a Millionairre?"
        I think shows like that are a bigger disgrace to the concept of marriage than gay marriage could ever be because they lower it to the level of prostitution, whereas I've known gay couples who genuinely loved each other in the same way as hetero couples love each other.
        People like you can't see that because you've been so brainwashed by religious propaganda.

  • Posted By: jhngaunt @ 06/03/2008 5:05:46 PM

    Using the poem from Rome is a really bad example. As most with a knowledge of history will recall, the Roman Empire fell, primarily due to rot from within that caused it to be unable to withstand pressure from without.

    • Posted By: RationalTim20 @ 06/03/2008 5:24:41 PM

      I think the point was simply that this is far from a new concept. But if I missed the mark, I just wanna say that I really hope they bring back the Gladiator games, cause they looked really cool. Especially with the tigers and stuff.

  • Posted By: eshuster @ 06/03/2008 4:20:10 PM

    This debate is not over and will likely continue at the state level. The courts are over turning that which the people have already rejected. Gay couples can live together and enjoy a significant number of benefits, but marriage is not one of them. I am not a bigot or homophobic, I am an American that realizes that no nation in the history of the world has ever thrived under wide spread homosexuality. It is a deviant lifestyle and should not be promoted in any way shape or form. I love all of God's children and feel marriage is sacred and solely between a man and a woman. It must be kept that way.

    • Posted By: jfk423 @ 06/03/2008 5:23:53 PM

      What are the benefits we have?

  • Posted By: BoGilles @ 05/31/2008 11:38:10 PM

    Homosexuality is wrong simply because it's not the way God has designed the human body.
    For those who don't believe in God, it's still wrong because our body is not designed to interact sexually with a person of the same sex. I might understand some attraction for the opposite sex, but I might also be attracted to my neighbor's wife. It's wrong to give in to either one. This has to do with decency.




    • Posted By: nheilman @ 06/03/2008 5:20:08 PM

      its not decent for you to get with your neighbors wife because............ SHE'S MARRIED. that is a ridiculous comparison.

  • Posted By: Tundraman @ 06/03/2008 5:19:29 PM

    I'm a born-again Christian, married to the same woman for 45 year, we have three grown children, and 5 grandchildren.

    In NO way whatsoever is my marriage "threatened" by same sex marriages.

    I believe what the Scriptures say about homosexuals; however, I also believe another thing that is profoundly stated in the Bible.....do not judge others, that is God's job.

  • Posted By: casooch18 @ 06/03/2008 3:46:31 PM

    Well Andrewinsanpedro, I'm in love with Kate, she is not my sister and I hope to marry her, we will submit to blood tests, just like you and your wife did to prove you are not related. I wasn't aware that in asking for the basic human right of marriage that we (gays) were also asking to be able to marry our relatives, pets and multiple partners? I guess I missed that section of the request. Get over yourself... and yes, What Does Marriage Really Mean?? That is a very interesting question, maybe you should think about it some more.

    • Posted By: andrewinsanpedro @ 06/03/2008 4:16:04 PM

      I'm so silly. I thought blood tests were to check for diseases, not to check for being related. (Of course, if that is true, you and Kate wouldn't need a test because being close relatives wouldn't matter. No 6-fingered children in YOUR future.)

      But I'm shocked that you would deny happiness to me and Anne and Sally. We all love each other and polygamy has a long history... well way back a bit. As we've grown more enlightened, polygamy was OUTLAWED. But that should be reversed! We deserve the basic right of happiness like everyone else.

      If your Kate was your long lost step sister, who you only just recently met without knowing at first she was your sister, would be be able to stop wanting to marry her? My whole point is you can choose who you love and you chose wrong. (I'd guess you choose to not love me much right now.) You are not a prisoner of your emotions. You can do the right thing. If you understand what the right thing is.

      • Posted By: casooch18 @ 06/03/2008 4:48:42 PM

        Choice? right, I forgot about it being a chosen lifestyle... Do people really choose discrimination and hate? Silly me, I guess I'll work on choosing the "straight" and narrow... keep you posted on that!

        • Posted By: andrewinsanpedro @ 06/03/2008 5:19:07 PM

          I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound hateful. I was only disagreeing with you and illustrating by fictional examples. Does opposing your viewpoint mean that I hate you? Or are you talking about everyone else that opposes your lifestyle. The fact is, whether you chose to be "in love" with Kate or were born that way (you weren't) noone has a reasonable shot or even desire to stop you from living (and whatever) together. But it's no more marriage than me moving in with my sister to save money and expecting to share HER benefits and tax breaks. It's no more different than any of the other examples I've given.

          You can do the right thing. You just don't want to. Is it hateful to imply that you are responsible for your choices and not some random glitch that wired you different? You are not a victim.

      • Posted By: casooch18 @ 06/03/2008 4:50:36 PM

        I'm so silly, I forgot I chose this lifestyle.... I just decided it would be great to sign up for something a majority of the world discriminates against. Yeah tons of fun.... I guess I better get working on choosing the "straight" and narrow... I'll keep you posted on that!

      • Posted By: casooch18 @ 06/03/2008 4:50:34 PM

        I'm so silly, I forgot I chose this lifestyle.... I just decided it would be great to sign up for something a majority of the world discriminates against. Yeah tons of fun.... I guess I better get working on choosing the "straight" and narrow... I'll keep you posted on that!

  • Posted By: Patrick May @ 06/03/2008 5:16:43 PM

    Wow, it is just that simple. Love found a way.

    • Posted By: turin@msn.com @ 06/03/2008 5:18:34 PM

      So did the polygamists.

  • Posted By: Schpike @ 06/03/2008 5:18:23 PM

    "The opposition is aging out." Excellent point....also note that gay people already get "married," have "wedding" ceremonies, and call each other "wife," "husband" or "spouse." They often say they're "married." They register for wedding gifts a department stores (who seem very happy to take the money!). What's going in Calif. only speaks to the legal aspect of marriage. No group of people "owns" the word "marriage."

  • Posted By: Badbob789 @ 06/03/2008 4:56:42 PM

    When and if gay and lesbians can have sex and produce a child then I'll be all for it. Until then it is unnatural period.

    • Posted By: ericag76 @ 06/03/2008 5:06:01 PM

      And let me guess, the only time you have sex it to procreate?

      • Posted By: kshortSD @ 06/03/2008 5:18:22 PM

        Yeah, and the only people that get pregnant are married people. :)

    • Posted By: LKateP @ 06/03/2008 5:07:22 PM

      Ignorance runs amuck. The definition of unnatural is "1. contrary to the laws or course of nature."
      In other words something that does not happen in nature. Unfortunately, for your narrow mind, homosexuallity abounds in nature. Please read Bruce Bagemilh, Ph.D., BIOLOGICAL EXUBERANCE, Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. It is a 743 page book of example of homosexuality throughout nature, making homosexuality...natural.

  • Posted By: indydog @ 06/03/2008 4:59:53 PM

    Sorry...but it is not over. All gay people can move to California and do their thing legally. If it becomes too crowded with gays, the normal people can move to another state that still has some sanity behind laws. It's OK to be gay. But you should lose some of your rights as a result. Marriage is between a man and a women. Period. The ultra liberal, left-wing whacko California courts can say what they want. But it doesn't make it so. It makes it so only in California. Other states will not fall in line. Anna Quindlen....your article and assumptions are so far off normal American life, it's not funny. Get in the real world. Gay is not OK in 90%+ of America....no matter what Hollywood or the California Supreme court says.

    • Posted By: RationalTim20 @ 06/03/2008 5:15:40 PM

      Heck yeah Indy! Let's move all the gays to California, maybe into gay camps like we did the Japanese in WWII. The camps will be colorful, perhaps with some nice pastels and a lot of orange and purple, and mostly vegetarian, because we like to stereotype! That way we can keep 90% of America pure. By pure I mean full of overfed SUV-driving evangelical angry gun-toting bible thumpers, who are seeing the world change like their grandparents did and who never learn that change happens whether you like it or not. While we are at it, let's enslave anyone who looks different, put women back in the kitchen where they belong, and get out the belt when our kids get out of line. Good old fashioned American purity in action!

    • Posted By: spjon @ 06/03/2008 5:13:12 PM

      You need to revise what you said. You can't say it's ok to be gay but you should lose rights. That's like me saying it's ok for you to be Christian (you'll notice I even picked something you can control over something you can't like skin color) but you should not be able to vote.

    • Posted By: nautiboyz @ 06/03/2008 5:13:00 PM

      I'll move to California if you will sit on the back of the bus and use a segregated restroom wherever you choose to live.

  • Posted By: daisy&phoebe'smom @ 06/03/2008 3:54:55 PM

    To the person who wrote that marriage can only take place between a man and a woman and its for purposes of procreation - shame on you. If that's your argument -- let me pose this question should a wife leave her husband if they are unable to conceive a child "the old fashion way?" Comments that raise marriage and child bearing in the same sentence also are discounting to parents who choose to adopt and give a home to a child already born, i.e. couples who adopt. Is marriage really only a means for procreation? I don't think so. Is not marriage or any loving partnership between two adults, the joining of individuals who are committed to a life together with shared values, hopes, and dreams? Its the day in and day out experiences that define a marriage. The heartfelt knowledge that someone will be there no matter what, in good and bad times, to love, respect and honor you, to bond a life over the deepest of spiritual connections. I didn't know that only hetrosexual couples had the monopoly on that level, that feeling, that depth of love. I happen to believe that God made each of us, whatever your preferences in the bedroom. And, I also feel that in today's world the most important thing we need to demonstrate toward our fellow human being is tolerance. Intolerance for whatever reason will be the decline of our civiliation not allowing same sex marriages.

    • Posted By: miamiman @ 06/03/2008 3:59:35 PM

      i think you aimed that at me. I did state that this was MY OPINION AND BELIEF. Intolerance works both ways missy. I am entitled to MY opinion and dont need to hear crap from you. You are the one that needs tolerance.

      • Posted By: cmonpplthink @ 06/03/2008 4:46:02 PM

        Wow, sensitive much? Lots of people have said marriage is between a man and a woman, what makes you think she was pointing at you?
        Anyone who decides to vocalize their opinion in a public forum should not get uptight when someone else exercises their right to disagree. You saying "I am entitled to MY opinion" and yet calling her statements "crap" makes a valid case that you're intolerant to anyone disagreeing with you.
        You can believe what you want, its your right. But instead of resorting to personal attacks and childishness as a reply, why don't you actually respond to the points she made and justify your position?
        I fully expect that people will respond to my comments, most likely negatively, but you won't see me telling them "you suck, I don't wanna hear it you mean ol poopiehead" as a response.

        • Posted By: spjon @ 06/03/2008 5:09:44 PM

          I like you. Let's be friends. LOL.

  • Posted By: fuhrfen84 @ 06/03/2008 4:58:59 PM

    The only thing I ask is that if you were in that situation, and you found that you were in love with another man/woman, you would feel that you should have rights just like anyone else. I personally am not attracted to the same sex, but I can understand those that are. I may not like it, but I understand it. Animals mate with the same sex- and we don't shoot them and they certainly don't go to hell (at least not according to the bible... explain that one will you!). As long as they don't force their way of life on me (as in trying to get me to be gay when I'm not), I have no problem with them. They ask the same of us. Whether you like it or not, its here to stay. So wasting your time getting upset about it certainly isn't going to do any good. It might do us all a favor and shorten your life a bit. So chill out and live your own life in peace & harmony just like the bible says to. In fact, the bible says to turn the other cheek. How about THAT for sinning? It's between them and God, not us. We don't have the right to judge them.

    • Posted By: respdude @ 06/03/2008 5:08:49 PM

      Read your bible... Animals don't go to heaven either. Can animals reason? Can they think on cognative levels?, or do they live on instinc. If you consider yourself on the same level as an animal, then who cares what rights you have. Lets put a collar around your neck and tie you to a post in the back yard. What a horrible arguement you make. Did you even thinkg about what you were writing?

  • Posted By: orapronobis @ 06/03/2008 4:39:24 PM

    The freaks have won the battle but not the war.

    • Posted By: RationalTim20 @ 06/03/2008 5:07:14 PM

      Exactly! To arms! We shall fight them on the beaches, in the air, in Key West and San Francisco! And in the end, we, let's call us the "non-freaks", will win after using every resource available to stop the abomination! It shall be glorious! Then and only then will be look to the smaller matters, like starvation, child abuse, and climate change (by the way, we officially deny that last one exists for at least another 10 years).

  • Posted By: Rence @ 06/03/2008 5:05:19 PM

    If marriage were solely about the production of offspring, then why do we allow couples who are unable or unwilling to have children to marry? Should we mandate a fertility test for all couples before marriage to ensure that they can produce children? Why would we want to allow a male/female couple to marry if they are incapable of producing children. What about couples who choose to remain childless? Should marriages be automatically annulled if offspring is not produced in a reasonable amount of time? Or would it just be easier to mandate that a couple that wishes to marriage produce a child before they may marry?

    But then what about same-sex couples who have children. If marriage is about children, then same-sex couples with children should be allowed to marry. They may have children from a past relationship, they could have adopted, or used artificial insemination (for lesbians) or surrogacy (for gay males). If marriage is for the children then shouldn???t these couples be allowed to marry?

  • Posted By: Rights4ALL @ 06/03/2008 4:32:52 PM

    Isn't the law of the land "The CONSTITUTION of the United States" not the bible of the United States? It took the 1967 Supreme Court to tell the American people that it was unconstitutional to limit the rights of marriage - even if the people of a state voted otherwise; in particular the 13 states that still made it illegal for a black person to marry a white person. If you really want to "preserve the sanctity of marriage" then make it illegal to get a divorce.

    • Posted By: spjon @ 06/03/2008 4:47:34 PM

      "Amen" to that.

      • Posted By: RationalTim20 @ 06/03/2008 5:01:26 PM

        Absolutely right. The Bible is not the American law. Change happens slowly and generates anger and denial. Let them rail against the change, like people have done through history. Peasants do not have rights. Changed. Black people do not have rights. Changed. Women. Changed. Gay people. Changing. It will not happen fast enough for some, but 10 years is a blink of the eye for history...

  • Posted By: scottb777 @ 06/03/2008 5:00:21 PM

    What a beautifully written article. I wept (which I normally do not do reading Newsweek) because it shows there is actually hope for this world, amidst all the ignorance, fear and hate. Thanks for this article.

  • Posted By: Badbob789 @ 06/03/2008 4:54:51 PM

    When gay and lesbian people can have sex and produce a child, then I'll be all for it. Otherwise it is against nature, and is against the ethical and moral judeo-christian values for which this country was founded, period. And I am not talking about all of the scientific advances that are available for assistance to help women conceive if someone wants to try and make that arguement. It still takes and male and female component to produce an off-spring.

    • Posted By: spjon @ 06/03/2008 4:58:30 PM

      So a man and a women where one or the other is infertile should not be able to use science to have a child. We should do like in the old days and shun the one that is unable to reproduce?

  • Posted By: orapronobis @ 06/03/2008 4:40:34 PM

    they have won this battle but the war is still going on.

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