The Same People

Gay Lifestyle? You mean the one where I go to work, pay my taxes, donate to charity, make people laugh, and generally try to be a good person? That gay lifestyle?

Should society change? It already has, most people agree that gays and lesbians deserve equal rights, they just disagree on the details.

Good lord!
Let me vote on your rights!

Much ado about 'Defense of Marriage', and 'Natural Law'.

Unnatural behavior is by definition engaging in acts that go against ones nature, so it would seem that forcing those who are attractied to members of their own sex to behave as heterosexual, or remain celebate against their wishes is to require such behavior by them.

And over the course of a long married life I never found that the marital relationships of friends, neighbors, or family had any effect on my marriage other than the warmth we shared when loved ones married, or the sadness when they parted.

How strange it all is. So many waxing wroth over the behavior of so few.

One wonders how all these opponents to the loving joining of others will be harmed?

***Comment: Homosexuality is a choice. Just because someone has homosexual feelings doesn't mean that the individual has to give into those feelings. Humans are fallen beings, and have been since Adam and Eve. We have had a fallen, sinful nature since that time. ***

People being "fallen beings" and Adam having even existed, whether literally or as a metaphor, is a religious belief. That's a choice.

If it were not for religious freedom being protected under our Constitution, that could be a very effective weapon against any religious minority -- and a majority today can be a minority tomorrow. Be careful what you wish for.

As far as comparing same-sex marriage to marrying animals or molesting children, the continued efforts to dehumanize gay citizens are distressing but Anna Quindlen is right. That ship has sailed. Get used to it.

***Comment: Homosexuality is a choice. Just because someone has homosexual feelings doesn't mean that the individual has to give into those feelings. Humans are fallen beings, and have been since Adam and Eve. We have had a fallen, sinful nature since that time. ***

People being "fallen beings" and Adam having even existed, whether literally or as a metaphor, is a religious belief. That's a choice.

If it were not for religious freedom being protected under our Constitution, that could be a very effective weapon against any religious minority -- and a majority today can be a minority tomorrow. Be careful what you wish for.

As far as comparing same-sex marriage to marrying animals or molesting children, the continued efforts to dehumanize gay citizens are distressing but Anna Quindlen is right. That ship has sailed. Get used to it.

Posted By: eshuster @ 06/03/2008 5:30:18 PMComment: "I am certain that gay couple has the capacity to love one another. They can be devoted to one another and pledge a lifetime of fidelity. That is not the issue. The issue is that a gay lifestyle is deviant and should not be promoted to our children, nor to our society as being normal or acceptable. Most gay people I talk to would become heterosexual if they could, but they claim they cannot. Regardless of whether I agree with whether they can change or not, I understand their position. The point is that marriage is a sacred institution that must be reserved and respected as that which we want to promote as a society - that being between a man and woman. Once we start promoting gay marriages we become a weaker society and open the doors to other deviant lifestyles and norms. Can we please begin drawing the line in the sand for our country and not allow ourselves to continue to slip further and further into a destructive course for America? We accept gay people in our society - that is enough. I don't want our country to promote it. "

Eshuster, our society used to discriminate against left-handed people. Left handed students were forced to learn to write ONLY with their right hand (leaving many adults who always had problems writing legibly), pay phones were almost impossible for lefties to navigate. Even the Bible was used as a reason to put down left-handed people (for 25 Biblical references, see, for starters: http://www.theworldofstuff.com/lefty/ ) -- ever wonder where the term "sinister" comes from?. Yet, like homosexual orientation, left-handedness occurrs naturally in a small percentage of every society and culture.

Try re-stating your comment with "left-handed" every place you use "homosexual" or "gay", eg: "The issue is that a LEFT HANDED lifestyle is deviant and should not be promoted to our children, nor to our society as being normal or acceptable. Most LEFT HANDED people I talk to would become RIGHT HANDED if they could, but they claim they cannot. Regardless of whether I agree with whether they can change or not, I understand their position. The point is that marriage is a sacred institution that must be reserved and respected as that which we want to promote as a society - that being between TWO RIGHT_HANDED PEOPLED. Once we start promoting LEFT HANDED PEOPLE GETTING MARRIED we become a weaker society and open the doors to other deviant lifestyles and norms. Can we please begin drawing the line in the sand for our country and not allow ourselves to continue to slip further and further into a destructive course for America? We accept LEFT HANDED people in our society - that is enough. I don't want our country to promote it. "

THAT was what was believed in this country as late as the 1920's. Doesn't it sound silly now?

Why is it that those who espouse hatred get more attention than those that offer a simple human point of view? If you are lucky enough to find love, you should not have to face puritanical obstacles, that have never had a logical basis for existing in the first place. My dream is that someday my children will never have to live in a world where hatred trumps humanity and due to conversations of this nature they won't have to. Thank you for a very timely article.

By the way the romans ruled for about 1500 years so if thats the case we have a few to go.and just because your a man and women doesn't make you loving.more married men and PRIEST molest children than gays.Plus what about all of the loving dead beat dads and moms on welfare.

We are supposed to feel comforted that two Roman men got married in the second century A.D.? This rather detracts from the author's case. The Roman empire collapsed under the weight of its amoral permissive behavior -- each generation progressively got weaker as the family became less important. What sanctifies marriage are the children that make come from the union. Children deserve to be raised by a loving mother and father. When we forget this fundamental truth, we too will fall as did Rome.

Throughout the comments I have read about what a great country we would be if only everyone would have more tolerance. My tolerance is not infinite, and because of my belief system find it hard to support this gay marriage agenda. My belief system brings morality into play and I see this country falling like a bag of stones straight into the abyss.

How many of us would be willing to submit our rights to a majority vote? This is above all, an equal rights issue, and one any group denies the rights of others, all of our rights are in jeopardy. Ms. Quinlan gets it right when she says "the sacred business of judges is not to ratify the will of the majority, but to protect the minority from its tyranny." If we're all honest with ourselves, we know that at some point in history our ancestors benefited from such wisdom and protection (in this country). If being Americans has any value, then we must practice what we preach and begin with equal rights and fairness for all at home. And if anyone can tell me that Jesus, the only human-form of God that anyone as ever heard from, specifically was against homosexuality, I'm all ears! His message was nothing but acceptance, kindness and inclusion.

I wouls like to andrewinsanpedro diecribe what NORMAL NATURAl right is beause OLD testement David had more than one wife. and some question a relationship with Jonathan in 2ns Samuel. After Christ it became one man and one woman and " What God has put to gehter let no man put us under " Is Meant to be NO DIVORCE and DIVORCE is rampid in thi scountry over as little things as what he fixed for dinner last night. So What Part of UNFAIR but JUST do yo uwant to go in a country that is Built on Equality and Justice SINCE you are going back to the begining of time. SINE the begining of time HUMANITY has beeb progressive and the next step being gay marriage isnt going to bother anything but your pride sine from what I read your NOT GAY. So it seems you argument in Self Centered and ONLY I SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS. Well your in a BIG O BLUE STATE first thing you might consider and I am sure is on alot Of Homosexuals minds in this country is MOVE.... Your Neighbors are going to be MARRIED HOMOSEXUALS...