The New Face of Islam

Deuteronomy 7:1 ???When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. [1] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. 5 But thus shall you deal with them: you shall break down their altars and dash in pieces their pillars and chop down their Asherim and burn their carved images with fire. THIS IS NOT VIOLENT? I guess most of you have not read the Old Testament

Thoughts that derserve to be taken very seriously. To avoid the so-called clash of civilizations to be turned into a military armageddon, any voice of moderation must be heard.

These thoughts deserve to be taken very seriously by both sides of the so-called divide. To avoid a clash of civilizations threatening to turn into Armageddon, it is vital to give moderating voices their say.

ANSWER SULTAN AHMED

By
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

QUOTING SULTAN:


The question is that Islam or Kuran says about it;

;;killing of man is killing of whole mankind;;

END QUOTE

Sultan is quoting Koran teaching 5:32. This is a favorite teaching of Muslims but they do not quote the entire teaching. 5:32 states is you can be killed for spreading mischief and corruption in the land. By refusing to convert to Islam, or rejecting Muhammad or rejecting Any teaching of the Koran, or declaring that Isam is bogus, that Allah does not exist, that Muhammad never met the Angel Gabriel, never received any revelations from Allah, that Muhammad created ALL the teachings of the Koran you are spreading mischief and corruption in the land and MUST BE MURDERED.

In Koran 5:32 you can murder non believers (kafirs), rape and enslave their women and children, and loot their property. These are all holy acts in Islam.
5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief (corruption) in the land it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then there came to them Our apostles with clear Signs yet even after that many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. 5:32
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam Koran 5:33
The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34) 5:33
When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax. 9:29
Verse 9:29 forms the basis of the system of dhimmitude prevalent in the Islamic empire, which institutionalised the second-class status of non-Muslims (specifically Christians and Jews) and forced them to pay tribute for ???protection???:

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

Large number of incidents ,occured in and around,have seen womens and innocents killied by blsting the bombs detonated under the cart,behind the cycal or hidden portion of motorcycle.

The question is that Islam or Kuran says about it;

;;killing of man is killing of wehole mand kind;;

You are all crazy. Do not let the media fool you. The islamic people are crazy and are a bunch of radicals. They do not drink beer and they eat spicy turkey necks.

Journalist Peter Bergen discussed this issue on NPR yesterday (6/11/08) and has an article about it on his web site:

http://www.peterbergen.com/bergen/articles/details.aspx?id=346

It's important to note that, so far, Al Qaeda appears to be the only radical Islamic Movement with global aspirations. The movements in Indonesia, North Africa and even East Africa are completely internal: they do not support the West, but they're more concerned with taking over their own countries than with destroying the West. No, I'm not defending them. If successful, they could create safe havens for all sorts of illicit activities--both criminal and terror-related.

Nevertheless, we (Americans specifically and Westerners in general) should take a step back and recognize that this dissent does, in fact, exist and try to determine how or if it can be exploited.

On NPR, Bergen recommended doing nothing and letting it evolve on it's own. I'm not willing to leave that much up to chance, but I do acknowledge that we need to proceed carefully. Dissent within Al Qaeda DOES NOT mean support of or sympathy for America, her allies, or her interests. If we are too aggressive in trying to exploit this divide, people could get defensive and rally back to Al Qaeda's cause.

For now....let's wait and see. This may well be the beginning of the end of Al Qaeda as a philosophical movement within the Muslim world.

PS--Ahmed,
Thank you for your postings....it's always good to hear from ACTUAL Muslims.

Wrong clarification,absolutely wrong done by Osama Bin Laden.It is not acceptable ,absolutely rejectable,wrongly narrated and delibrately interpratered.In fact ,such people have not real knowledge of Islam and Kuran.Due to such acts muslims are devided into many factins and every faction has different vviews about Islam and Kuran.


Islam, teachings of Kuran,in fact a religion of peace.Every versus of this wholy book teach us brother hood not enmity or war.

86 war had been fought in the early days of islam and during such long period you will find no suicide attack or conspiracy hatched by islamic leaders against others.
Islam grante no permission of killing innocent people as is being done by blasting and explosions on public places

It is an admitted fact that they have aggravated the face of islam by their evil deeds.
Why they are instigating muslims.They don't know that they are ccountable to God.
A fair part of the world is burning like hell.Who is responsible for that,Kuran? no,Islam ? no those peoples who are watching vision to rule over the entire world.

ANY THING ON ISLAM THAT COMES FROM TURKEY WILL NOT BE ACCEPTABLE TO THE REAL ISLAMIC UMMAH BECAUSE OF THEIR SECULAR STAND. THAT HADITH THEY ARE TRYING TO BRING MAY NOT BE AUTHENTIC AND ARE LIKELY TO BE FAKE SO THEY BETTER NOT WASTE THEIR TIME, PLEASE.

SAMINU KILA

The apocalyptic notion of holy war he promoted???and the reality of it that he demonstrated on 9/11???became the dominant vision of Islam for those with little understanding of the faith, whether in the West or, indeed, the Muslim world. Even many religious scholars were intimidated.
~~~~~~~~
who were the religious scholars which were NOT intimidated?

" The apocalyptic notion of holy war he promoted???and the reality of it that he demonstrated on 9/11???became the dominant vision of Islam for those with little understanding of the faith, whether in the West or, indeed, the Muslim world. Even many religious scholars were intimidated."
~~~~~~~~~
Who were the religious scholars which were NOT intimidated?

The worst that can happen to a Muslims scholar is being seen to be pandering to the wishes of a different ideology. The Turk researchers cannot be seen to be sincere whatevet their motive. They cannot be allowed to gain any shred of acceptance if their goal is to try to find acceptance for "un-islamic" cultural issues in the traditions of Islam.
It is not the time for Muslims to think about reforming Islam, you cannot reform anything under the threat of being nuked to smithreens. You cannot do independent research and interpretation of religion when you have already set yourself the goal of rejecting an existing thesis. Muslims agree on many issues and disagree on others. Disagreement is not a form of rejection, it is just a matter of opinion. Difference of opinion has always existed among muslims and that should not create dissent ot creation of supporters od Western Ideology among Muslims. Muslims should be united in the rejection of Western culture, imperialism and domination. Muslims should not allow division in their ranks which can be exploited by others to weaken their resolve in creating for themselves a better world.
The paradoxes that exist in the Muslim world are there for everyone to see; dictators, unelected monarchy, forreign controlled puppets, poverty in a very rich society, internal feuds and external wars. The Muslim world is in deep trouble and solutions are needed. Some will suggest unreasonably violent solutions, others will give up any hope and essentially defect, while many will just live on to hope for better leadership and better days.
The solution for Muslims is in self acceptance, reflection and resurgence. The solution is not to reject part of the society as radicals or liberals, the solution is discussion and finding the right way. Islam has richer history than any other civilization and Muslims should take pride in this. The Muslims should not allow themselves to become cheap targets for the Western media.

oK, I am just wondering what theturks can tell muslims now. They have zero credibilty. They cannot "rethink" Islam, they cannot even rethink Turkey itself. Turkish Ulama should tell the world whether women have a right to wear what they want in campus. The AK party should not attempt to fit Islam to their needs, they should fit their policies into Islam.
Nobody has appointed Bin Laden to talk for Muslims, nobody has appointed the turks to "revise" Islam to fit into their skewed form of democracy and enforced secularism. Islam is Islam regardless of those who like it or dislike it. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world and their interest is in unity of purpose, not to get apologetic towards the West.

As Rodney said" Can't we all just get along?"

If we rummage through various investigation reports available on the net, we will find enough credible material to know that, 9/11 was a highly complex planned Ground Zero created by the US agencies for covert sinister reasons. Osama bin Laden is their extremely dependable agent who is revered today by his contemporary agents, as disclosed by Michael Scheuer, one of the former agents, in his recently published book. Enough evidence is available in the book proving that, the war against terror is the biggest conspiracy in the human civilization of man against humanity because, it has specifically been created to exterminate religion ???Islam??? and promotion of ???shamism???.

It has also been reported extensively by some honest and realist writers in the US media that, war against terror cannot be speeded-up, without increasing the terror itself. Therefore, planner of the farce are secretly training and helping insurgents for creating avenues of turmoil to increase terror, while on the surface, they are fighting terror in such a way that creates ever increasing hold of the terrorists every where, showing the success of real agenda.