Why It’s Worse Than You Think

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  • Posted By: rudhrach.madadh.alluidh @ 06/09/2008 9:13:38 AM

    Thankfully we've had Republican proposals to keep the downturn as small as it has been the last few years. Most people look at the current state of the economy and blame the US President for every problem, which is not the direction we should be looking. Instead of looking at the economy as a whole, to judge a President we should look at the contributions of that particular administration. For example, Clinton benefited from the technology boom, primarily boosting us due to events in Japan. Regardless of Clinton's actions, we saw a boost, and no President could take away the huge improvements we saw. However, what Clinton's proposals did was limit that boost, taking what would have been a great boost and making it only a good boost. Bush, or rather his economists, have taken a negative world economy, influences outside the realm of US control such as oil prices (we contribute app. 4% to the cost per barrel, mere change), and minimized the impact, allowing to have things such as almost the cheapest gas in the world right now. A good President under a good economy will make a great economy, while a bad President under a good economy will keep it at only a good economy. A good President under a bad economy will still suffer through a bad economy, but can minimize the impact from world influnces, as is happening in this case. A bad President under a bad economy would just cripple us all. I shudder to think of what would have happened if things had been reversed, if Bush had been in office during the technology boom and we had to suffer through Clinton through the bad times. The middle class would be practically wiped for certain, we suffered through a recession in 2001 because his ridiculous proposals hadn't yet expired. And the moron managed to convince people that it was a Republican's fault, someone who had just entered office and hadn't even done anything yet. The fact that people still buy into that astounds me. Bush is an idiot, but his proposals and the work of his economists have really lessened the impact we're feeling compared to the rest of the world, seriously lessened the impact from increased Chinese demand and other factors, and for that very reason we cannot afford a Democrat to come back to office in these harsh times. We can only afford a Democrat when the world is giving us a huge boost, but history has proven that 100% of the time we suffer even more greatly when times are bad. The economy itself as a whole is not a deciding factor on the worth of a mere US President, it's the contributions to that world economy and how it affects the US that show a measure. Reducing a negative impact, or taking advantage of a positive impact, we've seen both over the past few years, after seeing neither during the previous few.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/09/2008 12:15:02 PM

      You forgot about the Peace dividend Clinton enjoyed. Winning the cold war greatly influenced our nations mood and allowed more money to be spent on things other than the military. Remember all the base closings. By the way anyone else think the massive troop reductions might be contributing to our shortage of soldiers today? The military meets its recruiting quotas but we are stiill short of troops? I think we shrank the military a little too much in the 90's.

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 10:51:25 PM

        Onepoker - The reason the military meets it recruiting quotas is because they moved the goalposts.

      • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 1:21:28 PM

        Bill Clinton did not start the reduction in the Military, it was started by George H.W. Bush.

        • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/09/2008 1:51:27 PM

          Thanks raddave. I was in the military then and most people seem to forget that George H.W. Bush was the one that started the down-sizing and prefer to blame Clinton.

        • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/09/2008 1:47:39 PM

          I wsn't blaming Clinton I was just pointing out the reason for the surplus of cash.

  • Posted By: Nins @ 06/09/2008 2:33:15 AM

    Here's some change you can believe in: the amount of times McCain has changed his values and positions on the issues.

    The reason half of the conservative Christian right hates McCain is because they think that they can't trust him. McCain started his career as part of the Christian right (there's a little-known fact). Once he landed in the soup as part of the Keating Five (which almost derailed his career) he positioned himself as a liberal and became a reformer for campaign finance in an effort to resurrect himself. For those of you who don't remember, the Keating scandal had to do with some shim sham corporations pumping money into McCain's coffers. So McCain became a reformer to shine up his tarnished image, and that was his first departure from the right.

    Other, more serious betrayals of the right came later, after McCain got swift boated by Bush in 1999. The great Texas Republican political machine laid McCain to waste, and McCain was mad as hell. He started voting against the party line and against Bush. He suddenly supported abortion rights, opposed the Bush tax cuts, co-sponsored a patient's bill of rights with Kennedy and Edwards, and got on the environmental bandwagon with John Kerry. My gosh, he even tried to crack down on gun shows in legislation he put forth with then-Democrat Joe Lieberman. And in 2001, when Senator Jeffords of Vermont switched from Republican to Independent in an effort to counteract Bush's stranglehold on the Senate, McCain announced that he was considering becoming a Democrat, and went into a pow-wow with Senator Tom Daschle at his Sedona ranch. And did you know that John Kerry floated the idea of having McCain as his VP in '04? That was to have cemented his status as a newly-minted Democrat.

    But instead of joining Kerry, McCain suddenly switched his affiliation, came out in support of Bush in '04, and jettisoned his liberal image. Suddenly, it was the "old" McCain from the 1980s back in the saddle, the neo-conservative, take no prisoners Creationist. Against abortion. For the war. The SAME man who opposed a Federal amendment banning gay marriage and openly met with gay groups now was pushing a gay marriage ban in Arizona. The SAME man who said in 1999 that he was opposed to overturning Roe vs. Wade, now suddenly in 2007 is promising that he will stack the deck in the Supreme Court with religious right judges and overturn Roe vs. Wade.

    But the religious right isn't so sure about him. He's supported so many different opposing positions at so many times, that they are afraid that they are getting played in the name of McCain's political expediency.

    Here are videos that show clips of McCain reversing himself on the same issues at different times, to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Don't believe me -- get it straight from the horse's mouth:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&feature=related

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/09/2008 12:37:21 PM

      the savings and loan scandal was much bigger than Keating giving Mccain money. Mccain distanced himself from the situation because he felt the players were dishonest and he was correct. The reason it didn't destory his career was because he turned against keating as soon as he percieved that something was wrong with the way they were doing buisness. As a side note the savings and loan collapse was largely due to a change in tax law that no longer allowed buisnesses or individuals to deduct the full payment for thier investment homes this effectively turned several (tax) investments into losing investments and caused a sell off in real estate similar to what we are experiencing today. Mccains involvement was in fighting the removal of the tax break presumably because he feared what would happen to the economy. . Crash of 87 ring any bells? By the way if you had purchased a home at the height of the bubble in 87 and not refinanced it It would still be worth close to triple what you paid for it today! SO if your upside down in your home today don't panic you will have a few malox moments but in a couple of years youll be fine.

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 10:46:10 PM

        Onepoker- I seem to remember another name tied with the savings and loan scandal - Neil Bush (W's brother).

    • Posted By: CouldCareLessAnymore @ 06/09/2008 8:00:51 AM

      How ignorant to think that christians will vote for an "in the closet" black panther muslim over McCain.... Where do these people come from? LMFAO

      • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 1:28:56 PM

        So Obama is an in the closet black panther Muslim, who attended a hateful Christian church for 20 years?

      • Posted By: Steel Man @ 06/09/2008 8:21:10 AM

        Some ignorant people like you are most to be pitied!

    • Posted By: MavTx @ 06/09/2008 10:34:29 AM

      I agree 100%. McCain has established a disturbing pattern of misusing his role as a lawmaker by creating laws and loopholes that benefits lobbyist, his friends (only the rich and powerful), his family, and indirectly benefit him. McCain has consistently demonstrated throughout his political career that he is guilty of double-speak. He consistently attempts to appease whatever audience he's standing in front of at the time.

      In a string, spanning decades, of McCain engineered land swaps benefitting "his friends", Rob Smith, director of the Sierra Club's Arizona affiliate states, "When the public trust intersects with private interests, basically, he (McCain) has favored land development . . . in every case,"

      Rob's statement can be applied to all of McCain's grandstanding. McCain is an accomplished "Pretender", and all these land swaps, the flip-flops, the McCain-Fieingold bill that birthed the 527???s, the loophole laws demonstrate that upon closer scrutiny of his political life, McCain's brand is just plain scary.

      McCain graduated 3rd from the bottom at Naval Academy, not ready for prime time in 2000 and past his prime in 2008 - - clueless on the economy, foreign policy, flip-flops, double-speaks, extremist and flawed spiritual advisors, close ties and friends with unscupulous lobbyist - - at best he???s an enigma and at worse he???s the 16 personalities of Sybil.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g
      VIET NAM VETERANS AGAINST MCCAIN

  • Posted By: getinvolved @ 06/08/2008 11:18:19 PM

    The Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans will blame the Democratic Congress. The fact is we have had good economic times during the first 6 years of Bush and a Republican Congress and a slow down started about a year after the Dems took over both houses of Congress. But I don't blame either because recessions come in cycles and we are overdue for one.

    • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 10:25:17 PM

      getinvolved - Hate to burst your bubble, but in some places this has been going on for five years or longer.

  • Posted By: wildlifeusa @ 06/08/2008 10:49:48 PM

    Dr Man... and you are the most generous people in the world??? So tell me, how come do you reject social programs so much???? How many millions do you need to be happy??? How does it feel to be rich and surounded by poor people?? Do you feel any guilt about having so much and see so many with so little?? You greed is unbelievable! No when a country is not able to offer health care to all, I do not call it a generous country!! You like so many are so damn selfish!!

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/09/2008 1:07:58 PM

      Im going to have my butler throw you out! and when hes done my Gardener will kick your ass. We are generous we arent surrounded by poor people without healthcare. Did you know that in america you can get cured of diseases that are fatal in such backward countries as Britain!!! Guess what when government is in charge they decide whats fatal and what is cost effective treatment. I have seen people come to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN that were told to go home and die in there own countries get better. Our system isn't perfect but atleast its not up to the government who lives or dies.

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 10:20:25 PM

        onepoker- Care to pay for my health care. Yes, I have worked for companies without any group health.
        The one I really liked was, 'the pay is $10/hr, health insurance is $400 every two weeks for employee and $800 every two weeks for the family plan." Hey, you do the math - is this a good deal or what?

  • Posted By: Jack999 @ 06/09/2008 9:50:50 PM

    JOHN McSAME having the WRONG SUBSTANCE for being president calibre.He should have been preparing his future by relaxing and choosing his time which Old folks Home..

    I'm wondering why someone with only High School Education background can be better President than those who's having a PHD education like Obama.As he is constitution scholar? While John McCain stand as Candidate in 2008 not even university graduate to be a President.Even Abraham Lincoln, our 16th President of the United States 1861-1865,a Republican,was a Graduated in Law when he was the President.

  • Posted By: kdawg860 @ 06/09/2008 9:34:49 PM

    we need to get the truth out about what's been causing these booms and busts: the FEDERAL RESERVE. every time it lowers interest rates artifically low, it creates booms and the wealth destroying busts that inevitably follows. the federal reserve either needs to be abolished or put in control by the government, instead of the unaccountable private bank cartel that it is today. the federal reserve's inflationary monetary policy created the big boom of the 1920's and the bust of 1929-30's. get rid of the damn fed, it serves no beneficial purpose.

  • Posted By: Jef39 @ 06/09/2008 9:07:43 PM

    The economic pollyannas are one thing, the chicken little types are another. Many people getting paid to stand on a soap box spewing their opinions. Here's mine and I'm not a paid talking head: modest recovery in 2008, fewer airlines, some perhaps bought out by subsidized foreign airline companies, and the S&P will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1540. Nuts to the panic peddlers.

  • Posted By: Nick42 @ 06/09/2008 8:42:27 PM

    The only reason we're not near stagflation similar to 1979 is the changes to the CPI which made it a horrible indicator of real inflation, and a better indicator of whatever the government wanted it to be. It's unfortunate that reputable news organizations continue to quote this obviously bogus measure of inflation when analyzing the US economy; using the real numbers (eg: no hedonic regression BS) would make your story more accurate and more compelling. The situation we're in is exactly stagflation, and getting the truth widely reported would go a long way toward putting pressure on the government to solve the problem, instead of creating worse problems with idiotic stimulus/bailout packages.

  • Posted By: Watchman3839 @ 06/09/2008 8:13:51 PM

    The global financial meltdown will continue to increase with every preventive measure added to minimize the effects. The unrepentant greed of so few is now endangering the lives of billions across the planet. International corporations as well as banks have joined hands with heavy market investors and speculators creating an bubble in several key areas effectively bringing paralysis to consumers and depreciating the value of what assets they have remaining. The crux remains that investors continue to profit off the misery that they have created with overvalued stock in agriculture, finance, and energy. The world is experiencing labor pains which grow in frequency and intensity in every aspect of our lives culminating into complete collapse of global financial industries. The speculation of emerging markets will be short lived as mass populations suffer under famine and financial chaos orchestrated by free trade which is nothing but a masked term definined as wholesale exploitation of the populace.

  • Posted By: ted_hu @ 06/09/2008 8:12:12 PM

    Entitlements are not the biggest problem. That's a typically lame right-wing urban myth that attacks the demographic least able to defend itself. Defense takes up more than two and a half times that of all entitlements combined. W has jacked up our 10-year debt load to more than $3 trillion while promoting a free-for-all you're on your own

    While other countries India, China to EU to Denmark are planning and investing for the 21st century (Germany is 20% solar powered, EU currency has appreciated almost 30% v dollar), we're stuck in a decade long right-wing dogma that government is nefarious while corporations are given a free pass and can do no wrong, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

    It is also sad and embarrassing to see how the Chinese have done more in a month to take care of its people (moving a million people to safety, building shelter, clothing, feeding, educating) than we've done in years following Katrina. The GOP has been incompotent. It's one-liners and dogma (tax cuts are the solution to all economic problems big and small is a simpleton example) is faith-based with no comprehension of moderate, balanced governing by the numbers that is evidence-based. Republicans have dragged the US down to 2nd world status in less then a decade and the dollar is but one sign.

    However, the real macroeconomic elephants in the room, and one that is rather neglected in this artile - is that the dollar is now monopoly money at the root because we've spent or thrownaway so much of it for non-productive, non-tradeable economic activities - tax cuts for the rich who are invested overseas and the 2 wars - which only go to worsen our terms of trade and puncture/deflate the dollar's value. Thus oil and imports become increasingly more expensive in the US while the rest of the G-8 economies are faring a lot better.

    We need to invest and cut spending. Make government work again in partnership with the private sector. Be pragmatic and not dogmatic.

    Republicans have had a decade to do their thing. Time's up. Enough fear, one-liners and put downs - time for some deliberate and balanced leadership at the top already.

  • Posted By: ted_hu @ 06/09/2008 7:56:05 PM

    Entitlements are not the biggest problem. That's a typically lame right-wing urban myth that attacks the demographic least able to defend itself. Defense takes up more than two and a half times that of all entitlements combined.

    The real macroeconomic elephants in the room, and one that is rather neglected in this article - is that the dollar is now monopoly money at the root because we've spent or throwaway so much of it for non-productive non-tradeable economic activities - tax cuts for the rich who are invested overseas and the 2 wars - which only go to worsen our terms of trade and deflate the dollar's value. Thus oil and imports become increasingly more expensive in the US while the rest of the G-8 economies are faring a lot better.

  • Posted By: ICYEYES800 @ 06/08/2008 9:37:07 PM

    Let's see, we have a MAJORITY democratic senate....Pelosi and "there's a new sheriff in town" slogan has taken us on a downward spiral, gas at record prices, groceries climbing week to week, when's the new sheriff gonna put a lid on it??..One can only fear having a democrat president...GOD HELP US

    • Posted By: mariethomson @ 06/08/2008 10:56:53 PM

      It could cause a crash from which this great nation may never recover to have a D President, especially this Obama character. One of AlQueida's announced goals is to destroy the US financial markets. They won't have to if Obama does it for them--he has funded terrorists along with Khalida etc. and that business of trying to help his cousin Odinga instigate Muslim law in 85% Christian Kenya--maybe he is the Manchurian Candidate! If we do it to ourselves it will save them the trouble!

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 7:14:47 PM

        mariethomson - Wrong candidate for Manchurian Candidate, suggest read the book or see the movie before making additional comment.

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 06/09/2008 4:09:23 PM

        A little paranoid are we? A crash from which we may never recover? Bush and his cronies have done an enourmous amount of damage and they are Repubs so how could a D be any worse. Obama is not a manchurain candidate and is not supporting terrorism. More Repub lies.....or are you just a conspiracy nut?

    • Posted By: wildlifeusa @ 06/08/2008 10:58:39 PM

      Right!! and we go again... Blame the new congress. May be you should ask what did the republican congress did during all the years they had the majority???? Bankrupt the country with an unlawful war. This is why this country is in such a mess and by the way the food and gas problem is a mondial problem not only the usa's!! How would you feel if you had to pay over 8.00 / gallon?? This is what europeens have been paying for years!!
      Blame Bush and his neocons oil tycons because they are smiling all the way to the bank and would care less for the people.

  • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/08/2008 10:16:46 PM

    Just so many bad decisions made in the last seven years that affect todays economy. This will take effort and sacrifice of all. Roll up the sleeves.

    How much are those CEO's making? What the ratio to an ordinary Joe?

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 06/09/2008 4:14:06 PM

      They make an average of 460% more than the average joe. I am not exactly crying in my beer for them. As far as hard working and brilliant I know a lot of people like that who don't even make 50k a year let alone tens of millions.

      • Posted By: OBWan @ 06/09/2008 7:11:33 PM

        angelus1967
        Thank You - Same here.
        I saw an article today that the minimum wage would need to be at least $41/hr to be at the same ratio as 1970 in relation to CEO pay. Kind of sickening.

  • Posted By: peace and love @ 06/09/2008 11:02:29 AM

    I have a feeling that the Brians of the world would be screaming from the roof tops that it was their man/party who was responsible for the good times. THIS OF COURSE WOULD BE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT THE PAST 7 YEARS. THERE REALLY ISN'T ONE THING HE CAN BRAG ABOUT.

    They can only say it's not their fault. Pitiful.

    • Posted By: Brianb1956 @ 06/09/2008 11:45:56 AM

      The peace and love's of this world are completely blinded by what they read in the media. The formulate their opinions on a socialist driven form of indoctrination. They are completely ignorant of how this government works and who controls what. They are fed by democrats blaming Bush for every ill in this world. Don't you know that Bush caused Katrina and every other hurricane during his administration. Oh... and the wild fires in California.. Bush is to blame... he personally set them. He also personally chipped the tile on the Columbia and caused the deaths of the astronauts. He also blew up the World Trade Center. Bush has singlehandedly caused more distruction than any other person on this planet from Adam to the last baby born to date.

      If you think Bush was bad... elect Obama.... I'm sure you'll be in socialist heaven.

      • Posted By: WorkingForAJustWorld @ 06/09/2008 6:28:09 PM

        We already have socialism -- only it's just for the corporations. It's part of the Republican platform, only they don't call it that. For every person who works 40 or more hours a week and needs food stamps paid for by taxpayers, that's socialism for their employer. For every person works 40 or more hours a week and doesn't have health care, the taxpayers pay for it and that's socialism for their employer? Halliburton and Blackwater in Iraq being paid outrageous amounts of money, that's socialism for them. Bailing out Bear Sterns? Forgiving corporations' taxpayments so that they will bless us with their office towers or plants? Brian -- learn some history and economics and then talk to me.

      • Posted By: WorkingForAJustWorld @ 06/09/2008 6:21:30 PM

        The only socialism we have in this country is for the corporations. This is a big part of the Republican agenda, but they don't call it that. When people who work 40 or more hours a week have to have food stamps in order to survive, and we taxpayers pay for that, that is socialism for the corporations. When people who work 40 or more hours a week and don't have health care, we taxpayers pay for their trips to the emergency room or for state funded insurance. That is socialism for the corporations. Bailing out Bear Sterns? Paying outrageous prices for Halliburton and Blackwater to operate in Iraq? The disparity between the outrageous amounts that CEO's and others make compared to the lower level employees -- and then they pay a tax rate that is half what it was in the glorious 50's and 60's that the conservatives go on and on about. Brian -- learn some history and economics, and then talk to me.

      • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/09/2008 1:45:15 PM

        Have you served your country and been to Iraq to fight the war? If not, then you have no right to speak about it. I have been multiple times and will more than likely be back again. If you are so supportive of the President, go off and fight the war, or send your sons and daughter to do it. It is so easy to be supportive of something that causes no hardship for you whatsoever.

      • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 11:57:59 AM

        As much as you formulate your opinions on a neocon indoctrination from Fox News? No one blames Bush for Katrina, he gets the blame on how innept the Government was in responsding to the disaster. Yes, Bush and the republicans are to blame for our economy being in the mess it is in. De-regulation, cutting taxes on the wealthy while increasing spending. And on domestic drilling, if we were to drill more oil here, it would still go to the highest bidder. The problem is not that there is not enough oil being drilled, but a lack of refining capabilities. The Oil companies are to happy with their profits to invest some of it into creating more refineries.

  • Posted By: HungLo @ 06/09/2008 12:30:04 PM

    All the left-wingers keep on praying for economic recession so they can blame it on Bush. Lets face it, everything was fine until that piece of sh*t democrat congress came along and screwed everything up with their uncontrollable spending and economic policies. Notice how the country's economic troubles only came about over the last 2 years. Marxism at its best, what else can I say.

    • Posted By: Want A Change @ 06/09/2008 2:53:18 PM

      It's true: even complete idiots have access to the internet..................Gawd, no wonder the Republican machine is doing so well in this country with idiots like you.

      • Posted By: aristonymus @ 06/09/2008 5:46:16 PM

        Tsk, tsk, Want A Change -- and I thought all liberals were kind compassionate souls. I thought the left prided itself in being more enlightened than all those unwashed masses. How is he to see the supposed error of his ways if you call him an idiot?

    • Posted By: Dr. Waterbury @ 06/09/2008 4:45:46 PM

      Dear HungLo, The tiny majoraties that the Democrats have had in both houses of Congress since 2006 have not been large enough to override any threatened vetos by President Bush. They have passed nothing that he didn't want passed. The economic conditions we are now experiencing are the direct result ot the policies of this administration for the past seven years.

    • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/09/2008 1:40:08 PM

      You have got to be kidding me, right. The problems in the economy have been coming to a head for a long time.

    • Posted By: dubldoc @ 06/09/2008 12:52:57 PM

      HungLo, truly one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen.... funny, I dont hear any Nationally renowned economists (let alone those commie-pinko Nobel types) echoing your rant....(must be the Jew Owned media, huh??) . Seriously, you need to check yourself. And you comment "everything was fine"....Good lord, what a jerk! So, to start, you mean to tell me that the loosening of banking regulations under GWB (funny, kinda reminds you of the S+L thing, doesnt it?) , wasnt in place long before 2 years ago?? Allowing all those silly little 'no-doc' loans?? And, allowing 'securitized mortgage bonds' (remember how GWB ordered to Gov regulators to back off on trying to assign real risk??) as a means of getting a quick cashout for the annual bottom line and letting unknowing investors take the fall? And what about this admin's record of dissuading regulators from insisting that banks and other financial institution had/have adequate
      cash reserves?? You are either totally blind or a regular Faux news groupie....how sad.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 12:37:09 PM

      Excuse me, but it was the piec of sh*t republican congress and president that caused the problems with the economy with their out of control spending and tax cutting. Maybe that is Marxism at its best???

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/09/2008 12:33:34 PM

      dude, hit "post your comment" once....

      It's not that hard

  • Posted By: ploughman @ 06/09/2008 5:33:31 PM

    Looks like it's the perfect storm, as least as far as the U.S. goes. The short-term stuff: Another greed-driven bubble creating massive waste and write-offs in housing. It's far worse than a normal cyclical downturn because those who were close to qualifying as homebuyers and could pull it out of a funk have instead been burned as subprimes. It's like eating your seed corn.

    The long-term stuff: The day of reckoning arriving as far as energy vulnerabilities and suburban sprawl. Many have LONG predicted trouble for the U.S. when China becomes a net oil importer. Most families are trapped in living situations designed around cheap energy that won't be easy to fix. Indeed, the 2008 poster family ought to be one with 30,000 combined miles of "non-discretionary" driving on that $4 gas (due to sprawl) having to take a STAYCATION because their discretionary budget is gone.

    Even worse will be said family trying to "defend" the car-dependent lifestyle because it's all they've ever known. We'll see many people turned into work-eat-sleep machines trying to hold onto a lifestyle long after it's obvious what a liability it is. Meanwhile, places like Europe haven't had near the hit the U.S. has, thanks to being already a lot more energy-efficient and having a stronger currency borne of a saner fiscal policy.

  • Posted By: genroku @ 06/09/2008 1:22:34 PM

    "We need someone in office who will confront the problems and come up with viable solutions" said Onepoker. And that would be? McCain is an old man who doesn't know the difference between Shia and Sunni, but who wants to start a third war in Iran, who admitted publicly that he doesn't know much about the economy, and who thinks wiretapping Americans is a dandy idea, showing me that he doesn't have a clue about our Constitution and the democracy it protects. Even Republicans have admitted that Bush lied us into war, and Bush, himself, has admitted that he has been illegally wire tapping Americans since 9/11.

    There isn't a day goes by when this thought doesn't cross my mind: What will the Onepokers on the Right do when they find out that the Bush government they so stridently supported for the past 7+ years has simply been using them to get elected and rich. By then, it will be too late to do anything about it!

    Have you been so brain washed that you no longer have any common sense, or understand the difference between right and wrong? I feel sorry for you!

    • Posted By: aristonymus @ 06/09/2008 5:30:37 PM

      After reading your post, genroku, I see that brainwashing is not limited to the Right. You provided a potent brew of claims, but no backing of these claims with proof. Now perhaps Onepoker was bombastic, but your diatribe matches his in terms of fact-free egocentric pontification. Let's just say the sympathy you have for Onepoker is also directed at another amateur pundit.

  • Posted By: Jack999 @ 06/09/2008 4:18:13 PM

    It doesnt make any sense of intelligent arguments at all,
    Im wondering why someone with only High School Education background can be better President than those who's having a PHD education like Obama.As he is constitution scholar?While John McCain stand as Candidate in 2008 not even university graduate to be a President.Even Abraham Lincoln, our 16th President of the United States 1861-1865,a Republican,was a Graduated in Law when he was the President.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 4:58:34 PM

      McCain is a university graduate. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958 which gives him a Bachalor Degree. He is also a graduate of the National War College, which gives him a Masters. Get your facts straight before posting a comment.

  • Posted By: cs_bunny @ 06/09/2008 3:02:32 PM

    All you have to do is look at the jews. I hate to say it but it was Milton Freidman that exported our job in free trade, it was alan greenspan that gave us our bubbles, it was thomas freidman that sold our world is flat idea, it was the jewish zionist neocons that put us in Afghanistan and Iraq thus exploding our deficits and crashing our dollar. Has their ever been a problem that this nation has faced in the last 50 years that hasnt had the fingers of jews destroying our nation for the benefit of their own race.

    As this country faces its crisis we need to deport US jews to Isreal and resolve our illegal immigrant crisis by making states of Central America and mexico.

    • Posted By: newsreader10 @ 06/09/2008 4:26:45 PM

      Never underestimate the sick minds of people like cs_bunny. It is astounding that we still have in our midst perverted mentally ill people like this one. Bunny - please take your medication. Maybe there's still hope for you.

      • Posted By: steve02001 @ 06/09/2008 4:50:40 PM

        you are one sick bunny

    • Posted By: klebrun @ 06/09/2008 3:54:09 PM

      Last comment didn't say enough. This is the same garbage that the Nazis used to justify the Holocause. What we need cs_bunny, is to get you into a psychiatrist ASAP You are obviously one sick SOB.

    • Posted By: klebrun @ 06/09/2008 3:47:40 PM

      I think that this is the same propaganda that right wing/Nazi Germans used to start the third Reich.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 06/09/2008 3:47:28 PM

      I hope what you wrote is a joke, otherwise you scare the sh*t out of me.

  • Posted By: aristonymus @ 06/09/2008 4:48:31 PM

    Hmmm, why does cs_bunny's argument sound so familiar? Oh yeah, because Adolf Hitler tried to do the same thing. Sorry cs_bunny, but hatemongers don't make valuable contributions to human progress. Lose the hate or you might be swallowing cyanide capsules in your own underground bunker just like you-know-who.

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