Not the Party She Planned

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: tired and old @ 06/10/2008 11:56:01 AM

    WELL THIS HAS TO BE ONLY BLOG LEFT FOR ME TO LIFT MY LEG TO.

    AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE.

    AND MY MAN OBAMA HAS ONE.

    WE WILL SEE IF HILLARY.

    GETS INTERVENTION FOR HER BIG BUBBA.

    THEN WE WILL KNOW.

    WHY HE LIKES BLOW.

    AND NOT HIS OWN WIFE.

    I AM A VERY BAD SINGER, I KNOW.

    BUT, NOW I MUST GO.

    OBAMA RIDES FOR FUN WITH HIS NEIGHBORS; WHILE, I RIDE ALONE TO BEAUTY UP THE LAWN.

    • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/10/2008 12:32:38 PM

      Lol T!, As always, you don't disappoint. Have a good day and be careful with the lawnmower.

      • Posted By: tired and old @ 06/10/2008 3:24:39 PM

        PIA !

        I HAVE SINNED I SAID " ONE " AND MEANT " WON ".

        SO HARD TO REACH PERFECTION.

  • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/10/2008 11:43:51 AM

    DO YOUR RESEARCH?

    For you that don't get it and feels McBush will give you a better 8 years I ask how is that when he has the same policies as the current President with the lowest ratings in Presidental history. If you are a democrat and feels disrespected by Hillary loss, I ask you to get pass this as you would fighting with your family, at some point you work it out. The democrats need to stand strong and vote our democrat in office with so much at stake. Here are more facts to why: Please keep an open mind. I don't expect the republicans to give a dam because there motto is to get richer and richer, no worries for our economy, the lower and middle class.

    Behind the door of Army Spec. Jeremy Duncan's room, part of the wall is torn and hangs in the air, weighted down with black mold. When the wounded combat engineer stands in his shower and looks up, he can see the bathtub on the floor above through a rotted hole. The entire building, constructed between the world wars, often smells like greasy carry-out. Signs of neglect are everywhere: mouse droppings, belly-up cockroaches, stained carpets, cheap mattresses.Soldiers dealing with psychological disorders of their own have been put in charge of others at risk of suicide.

    Disengaged clerks, unqualified platoon sergeants and overworked case managers fumble with simple needs: feeding soldiers' families who are close to poverty, replacing a uniform ripped off by medics in the desert sand or helping a brain-damaged soldier remember his next appointment.

    The soldiers feel like they are not getting proper respect. This leads to anger."
    Most soldiers do not have access to telephones or the internet. Communication with home is solely by letter.

    Soldiers can post as many letters as they want a week for free but packages have to be paid for and are censored.

    OBAMA 08'





  • Posted By: willnotvoteobama @ 06/10/2008 11:12:44 AM

    How destructive to the U.S. economy would a Barack Obama presidency be?

    An exclusive Newsmax analysis warns: There could be a very rough time ahead.

    Beneath Obama's flowery rhetoric lies a dangerous economic plan that will wreak havoc on the American economy.

    Obama plans to return to the failed policies of high taxation coupled with an expansion of government spending.

    Worse, Obama says he is absolutely committed to almost doubling the capital gains rate ??? something he will easily accomplish with a Democrat Congress.

    In the coming months ??? when investors realize that Obama will raise the cap gains rate ??? there could be a stampede of asset sales as investors rush to take their profits now to avoid Obama's doubling of the tax rates next year.

    All of these issues and more are explored in Newsmax magazine's special report "Obamanomics ??? the Coming Tax-and-Spend Nightmare," by Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund.

    This Newsmax magazine special report gives Americans the first in-depth look at the Democratic presidential candidate's likely strategies ??? and how they will affect not just the larger economy, but your personal wealth as well.

    Indeed, Obama makes no bones about his plans to go on a tax rampage. Not only would he increase the capital-gains tax rate from 15 percent to as much as 28 percent, he wants to allow the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, which effectively raises taxes on Americans by tens of billions of dollars.

    He also wants to do away with the $102,000 FICA payroll tax cap, which means anyone making over $102,000 would pay an additional 7 percent in taxes on earned income.

    And the loan dividend tax rate George Bush implemented? Under President Obama it will be DOA!


  • Posted By: Bluebonnet @ 06/10/2008 10:53:27 AM

    As a Clinton supporter, just because Mrs. Clinton asked us to support B.O. does not mean that we will. We have not been "courted" by Obama's camp and were told basically to "fall in line." That's exactly what men think that we should just be "good little girls" and "fall in line." We do not believe in him and therefore many of us are not and WILL NOT support him. It doesn't have anything to do with race. He's inexperienced and is basically a puppet for all of his advisors. We have lived through 8 years of someone not knowing what in the heck they were doing. I REFUSE to live through that again. B.O. had the nerve to mention the benefits of the Clinton administration...the economy in particular. Then that means we need a Clinton back in office. Not someone that wants to "play" president. If it means that we will cross party lines...so be it. We are for who will be the best president, make the best decisions...not the most charasmatic!!!

  • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/10/2008 10:51:09 AM

    You got to be joking me, some Hillary supporters who are looking to vote McCain, what a joke. He has no policies that reflect Hillaries or Obama's but here is the lastest from Cnn from McBush own words.

    John McCain issued a promise Tuesday that may cause a bit of unrest with a broad swath of voters:

    He'll veto every single beer?

    In a slip of the tongue while railing against excessive earmarks at the National Small Business Summit in Washington, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee inadvertently pledged to veto the popular alcoholic beverage.

    If you didn't get that McCain said he will "VETO EVERY SINGLE BEER"
    WHAT I SAY, WHAT and you are doubting Obama who is a Harvard grad with better plans for our government, WHAT

    OBAMA 08'

  • Posted By: Micky Marsh @ 06/10/2008 9:38:49 AM

    Presently Senator Clinton is doing the right thing, but one can't help wondering about her timing.

  • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/10/2008 6:37:31 AM

    Hillary supporters have you read latest article:

    When it comes to economic policy, Barack Obama's standard campaign crack that a John McCain administration would amount to a third term of George W. Bush contains an awful lot of truth. Yes, McCain is a different man, with a different history, who will face a different set of challenges and opportunities than Bush has. But look through McCain's campaign pledges on the economy, and for the most part they really do amount to a continuation of two key policy priorities of the Bush administration: cutting taxes and moving more economic decisions (and responsibilities) into the hands of individuals.

    McCain economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin tried over the weekend to make the case that it's Obama who more closely resembles Bush because they're both big spenders. But it's hard to see that one sticking. If this election becomes a referendum on the recent performance of the U.S. economy, Obama wins and McCain loses. It's as simple as that.

    OBAMA 08'

  • Posted By: chelle25 @ 06/07/2008 6:47:46 PM

    II was hoping she'd run as a independent.......but since I guess she could not--there is no other choice but to back Obama.

    The T.V. news has become disgusting in its reporting style--with their questions of "when will she get out "..and constantly picking favorites to give all the time to. I also noticed this issue when all the candidates were still active--some got T.V. time and others were obviously left out.

    I will be voting for John McCain.




    I will not be voting for Obama.

    • Posted By: Zig Zag @ 06/07/2008 8:39:36 PM

      That would be a mistake. Don't let your anger towards the media help plunge this country into four more years of mismanagement. If anything, admit your anger and say I'll make my final decision in November, once emotions have subsided and I've had a chance to really study both candidates and their respective policies.

      • Posted By: neda @ 06/08/2008 11:00:00 AM

        zig, i belive a vote for the orator is a mistake. now what?

  • Posted By: Achilles22 @ 06/09/2008 5:57:33 PM

    McComa is going down like nap-time.........

  • Posted By: Kboogie @ 06/09/2008 5:39:49 PM

    Hey guys!!! GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!

    From today's Gallup: "Barack Obama is enjoying a modest bump in support following Hillary Clinton's exit from the presidential race. The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update finds Obama leading Republican John McCain, 48% to 42%, among registered voters nationwide.
    Obama has consistently held a lead of five to seven percentage points each night since it was reported that Hillary Clinton intended to suspend her campaign. These represent Obama's strongest showing versus McCain to date in Gallup Poll Daily tracking of registered voters' presidential election preferences."

    Looks like the Dems are coming together!!!

    Oh wait....there's more........ Obama leads McGremlin 5 points in the Rasmussen Poll.

    Oh happy days!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: J.Richter @ 06/09/2008 3:59:56 PM

    I hope Hillary supporters will not allow themselves to be used as the wedge issue to give us 4more years on the same path as the last 8. Let's open our eyes, some cornered voters focusing on evangelical single issues alone the last time thrust us where we are now.

  • Posted By: J.Richter @ 06/09/2008 3:57:25 PM

    It is notable to note that the most frequent reason some of the less reasonable Hillary supporters claim to not support Barack has nothing to do with him but "his supporters" and "the press" - as if he should be accountable for them and every other person that mentions hsi name. On his own, what's his record:
    - defended her in pulbic debate on the Bosnia gaffe single handedly causing the press to release their grip on the story.
    - never brough up any other her prior gates (in 15 months of contest) - no travelgate, Foster gate, etc.
    - has been paying her compliments since NC (not at the end like McCain who only repeated Obama's compliments are the press tirade to pander to you her supporters all while allowing his own supporters in his presence use the b word on her earlier in the campaign).
    - I once blogged with one rabid supporter who pointed me to a video of a speech in PA as an evidence of him giving her the bird. To say the least, this rabid supporter felt foolish at the end after we both extensively looked at and analyzed said clip. I've seen it all in this campaign season.

    That said there are many highly intelligent, positively supporting, and to the end loyal, hillary fans I have encountered - one being that rep from Florida - Wasserman-Shultz.

  • Posted By: Nins @ 06/09/2008 2:26:58 PM

    Concerned Ctzn, are you OUT OF YOUR MIND saying that "W" did nothing to defeat Roe vs. Wade? It has been the stated goal of the religious right to appoint conservative judges to overturn Roe vs. Wade for years. Bush is on board with this plan. Every single judge that Bush appointed to every single Federal bench that came open during his tenure was a right wing Christian conservative. The Democrats were stymied when the GOP controlled congress, and Bush got to appoint two right wing Supreme Court Justices.

    First Bush appointed John Roberts to replace Sandra Day O'Connor when she stepped down. When Chief Justice Wm. Rehnquist died in 2005, Bush appointed Roberts as Chief Justice, and then filled O'Connor's empty chair with Samuel Alito. Both Roberts and Alito are Catholic, and both are outspoken against abortion.

    Bush has appointed two of the nine Justices, including the Chief Justice. The current Supreme Court has been sharply divided on a number of high profile issues, including abortion rights, affirmative action, eminent domain, gay rights, the separation of church and state, sovereign immunity, and states' rights. The number of close votes in cases involving these areas suggests that a change of one or two key justices could completely shift the thinking of the Court on such issues.

    Right now there are four Justices who are elderly and will soon either retire or die. The next President will get to appoint at least two new Justices. If the next President is McCain, those two will both be conservative right wing Christians. McCain has publicly PROMISED to do this, and explicitly said that his goal is to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

    Most Americans, even most Republicans, value the separation of church and state. That clause is in our Constitution to protect us from exactly what is going on in America today! Allowing any religious group (especially a radical one) to control the interpretation and application of our laws in the highest court in the land is NOT democratic. Nor is it wise.


    Ladies, prick up your ears! We need to band together and fight John McCain.

    • Posted By: NeverSurrender @ 06/09/2008 3:39:49 PM

      It is foolish to vote on narrow issues such as pro-life or pro-choice. Most candidates don't really care one way or the other and are just pandering to the voters. What the candidates need to do is promote prevention of unwanted pregnancies with education and career opportunities. Many more young women today are pro-life and would never consider an abortion unless they were raped or their life was in danger.

      • Posted By: J.Richter @ 06/09/2008 3:52:51 PM

        And Hillary will also never win the nomination again! Because people will also not FORGET. Right now, the party is still recovering from the statement "I have got my experience in the whte house and McCain has his years of military experience and Barack has a speech he gave in 2004".

        It is pointed to note that your reason to not support the candidate has nothing to do with him but "his supporters" and "the press" - as if he should be accountable for them and every other person that mentions hsi name. On his own, what's his record:
        - defended her in pulbic debate on the Bosnia gaffe single handedly causing the press to release their grip on the story.
        - never brough up any other her prior gates (in 15 months of contest) - no travelgate, Foster gate, etc.
        - has been paying her compliments since NC (not at the end like McCain who only repeated Obama's compliments are the press tirade to pander to you her supporters all while allowing his own supporters in his presence use the b word on her earlier in the campaign).

  • Posted By: dreffein @ 06/08/2008 6:22:38 PM

    HRC supporters - while I haven't been as successful as I hoped on this site, I have found many allies on other sites including noquarterusa.net and CNN. I'd like to rename our project: Operation Respect. The goal is to go after those who have used vile and malicious comments against Hillary and make sure there are consequences for them - in particular, the folks at Newsweek, MSNBC and their advertisers.

    Initially, we just need to ensure we are not boosting rates at MSNBC and Newsweek sees their subscriptions drop (which will lower advertising revenue). Thereafter, we will go after the advertisers (just like the right wing has done successfully in some of their campaigns).. I will be back in touch with boycott details. Thanks to those of you who have added ideas and better tactics than I initially proposed.

    Obama supporters - I don't think Barack is behind any of this nor is my anger directed at him (although some of you are really pissing me off calling HRC supporters, dumb, ignorant, stupid, etc.). Please stay out of this and let HRC supports redress our grievances with the people that are really behind our anger.

    HRC supporters - I know many of you are angry at Obama. CNN polls show that 17% of HRC supporters will vote for McCain and 22% plan to stay home. I understand. The GE is 5 months away. In the meantime, let's see if we can bring down Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, Howard Fineman, Jonathan Alter, etc., to at least take the edge off. Women will never be disrespected again (at least by these as*hol*es) if we can effectively hit them where it hurts.

    • Posted By: NeverSurrender @ 06/09/2008 3:41:58 PM

      Many of Hillary Clinton's supporters will vote for John McCain in 2008. The DNC and the Media as well as many Obama supporters were unfair and disrespectful to the best candidate, Senator Hillary Clinton. We will send a message to the DNC that they can believe in: No to Obama - the DNC and Media selected candidate.

      McCain in 2008 - experience we can count on.

    • Posted By: mdennis1 @ 06/08/2008 7:20:21 PM

      Enter Your Comment
      You forgot Sean Hannity and Tim Russert. I used to like Tim but not anymore and I will never watch his show, Meet the Press, again.

      • Posted By: dreffein @ 06/08/2008 10:35:09 PM

        mdennis - I agree about Russert and Hannity. You expect that kind of treatment from Hannity but I thought Russert was above it.

  • Posted By: rainbow68 @ 06/08/2008 8:06:38 PM

    If Senator Obama loses (and I don't think he will), I don't think Hillary will run again. Her voters are older. And by 2016, there will be fewer to vote for her and she herself will be almost 70. I think this was it for her.

    • Posted By: Texanna33 @ 06/09/2008 3:10:28 PM

      Actuaslly, if Obama loses (I don't think he will) McCain will be a one term president. Hillary would be 64...plenty young enough to be president.

      • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/09/2008 3:35:17 PM

        Tex--

        I agree with you, which is why it's very important for Hillary Clinton to play "the game" now....just in case.
        eck out this article in the

        This NYT articles addresses that very issue:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/us/politics/09legacy.html?ref=politics

        Remember, playing the "game" isn't "giving in", actually it's more akin to "working the system".

        If she plays her cards right (assuming Obama loses) she could gain the nomination in 2012 or even take control of the DNC from Howard Dean. Clinton is down, but she's not out. Her legacy is at risk, but it's still possible to save it.

  • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/09/2008 2:57:31 PM

    McBush health care plan:
    Realpolitics.com
    McCain's Health Care Plan: Why It's Another Dumb Idea

    John McCain has just issued a new health-care bulletin about his health-care plan. In response to criticisms from the likes of Elizabeth Edwards, who notes his plan wouldn???t cover people with pre-existing conditions like her and, indeed, like McCain himself, McCain has amended his plan: States would create ???high-risk??? pools for people with risky pre-existing conditions.

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 06/08/2008 1:34:34 AM

    The Democrats are messed up. They're a bad soap opera that will be canceled in November. Clintons don't like Obama and vice versa. The 18 million voters for Hillary won't forget how they were ignored by the DNC.
    They want revenge. If Hillary's voters don't send a strong message to the Dems in November , they know the party will be managed by the same rotten bunch in the DNC. There has to be a house cleaning. Hillary's supporters are focusing on that. They realize Hillary's endorsement for Obama is superficial. Her supporters won't be led like sheep in November.

    • Posted By: hillary1973 @ 06/08/2008 11:11:13 AM

      Stop posting under various names. Everyone knows you are Republican trying to stir up trouble. It's not working genius.

      • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/08/2008 1:29:07 PM

        Hillary, ignore him.

        • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 06/09/2008 12:54:58 AM

          Oh how the truth hurts ...The Dem party went to the dogs...its stranger than fiction...get a grip on reality...
          your party and the media did not allow democracy to happen on its own.

          • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/09/2008 10:34:35 AM

            The last time you posted to me, you posted the most vile and demeaning comments that had nothing whatsoever do with politics, in fact, you compared me to a whore because I defended Obama's 'sweetie'. remark. I asked you then never to respond to any of my posts again. I am telling you once again, do not respond to any of my posts ever again.

            • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/09/2008 10:46:48 AM

              Pia--
              don't waste your time on this clown...

              • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/09/2008 12:09:40 PM

                Joe, you are so right. I appreciate your support, thank you very much..

  • Posted By: gandolina @ 06/08/2008 1:46:52 PM

    Which part of ---NO EXPERIENCE is not going to get people to vote for you ---are you not seeing.

    Maybe for you it's not wartime or time of financial stress or a feeling that your country has managed to be about to go from corporate looting in the White House to incomprehensible in the Oval Office.

    It's not that voters are going for McCain, especially. It's that they can't understand why with Obama they should want to vote for a self-promoter who has shown them nothing tangible to back him up. This isn't the Grammies, it's an election.

    It's that the democrats have caved to some shallow partisan agenda and think that with all our problems the way to solve things is to make leadership a matter of pigmentation. Instead of giving the voters a balanced ticket.

    I could care less who the first black president might turn out to be. But if it needs to be politician, and it does, wouldn't Charlie Rangel, brilliant, resourceful and a real grown-up be better than some MTV Muppet?

    What are the Obamabots going do next, offer a free tank of oil with every vote? And then have the press fawn over how visionary a tactic that is?

    People, regardless of party are going to vote for McCain because he fits the job description in the way we want it to.

    How delusional do you hav not be to actually believe that the same people who distrust the unfamiliar enough to reject Dean and Kerry and rather than that stunningly voted for Bush a second time, are now going go against every bit of their own logic and vote for Obama.

    Oh, sure they are.

    On Day One the objection to Obama was that he was inexperienced.

    Today he appears even less so, showing us nothing but sulky entitlement issues and worse judgement.

    You can foist someone so unsuitable -- a two year junior senator up against a lifetime Congressional mover and shaker --but you cannot make sentient adults vote for him..

    WHY WOULD THEY?

    That would be the bottom line-question even in the best of times, and if you are living in this country today the only other question is how much worse can these times get?

    I am writing in Hillary Clinton. She is the best of the three choices and I now realize that what this election has really made me see is that I am not about to pick party over patriotism.
    I If she and McCain both have a shred fo wisdom, they'll run on a Bi-partisan ticket and make four years , at least, of history..

    After being a life-long Democrat, I'll now define myself as an Independent til the day I die.

    Obama's only lasting legacy will be to have hoisted the petard of the Democratic Party.

    -gala1

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/08/2008 2:15:11 PM

      Gala, gala, gala,

      How little you get America. American LOVES scapegoats. If McCain wins with Hillary's supporters, who do you think will be blamed?

      How do you think it will affect the NEXT female candidate?

      If Hillary plays the game and Obama loses, she (and everybody else) can blame Howard Dean for screwing up FLA and MI. Dean is weak, everybody knows that. It would not be difficult at all for Clinton (Bill or Hillary) to stage a coup and run Dean out of office. This would place her as the unequivocal leader of the party and frontrunner in 2012 (assuming Obama loses).

      To paraphrase, "HRC fought, and now she should walk away so that she can live to fight another day."

      • Posted By: busby @ 06/08/2008 6:03:51 PM

        It'll be a sorry day if Obama supporters blame Hillary Clinton is he doesn't win. She endorsed him, she'll work for him but she can't force people to vote for him. Frankly the Obama supporters have trashed her enough. They made her supporters angry and they dug in. Now Obama's people find themselves in the unenviable position of trying to convince people whom they have so outraged with their nastiness that they are beyond listening. If she had the power to force people to vote a certain way, she would be the nominee today so lay off. Her supporters are going to go in different directions and what is good for the democratic party is in the eye of the beholder. I'm more concerned with what is good for the country and that too is a personal decision on everyone's part. To make a u-turn from devisiveness, name calling and contempt to cajoling is a tall order for anyone to swallow. So just support your candidate and leave Clinton supporters alone to make up their own mind. They can do their own research and make their own judgements without your help.

        • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/08/2008 6:17:59 PM

          Busboy,

          Thank you for proving my point. How could Clinton's supporters back Obama after she said he wasn't qualified to hold office? Or after she said low income, uneducated white voters vote for a person of color (actually, the white voters said that too, so it's not entirely her fault)?

          And let's not forget, she had 13 supporters on the rules committee, but only 11 would back her claim to all the FLA and MI delegates. Even they knew she had crossed the line, and they, FOR THE GOOD OF THE PARTY, said, "no".

          In terms of nastiness, I don't remember Obama ripping Clinton when her lead pollster was lobbying for the trade bill she claimed to oppose. Nor do I remember Obama ripping her about the whole Kennedy remark. Although I have no proof, I don't think Obama was responsible for that despicable YouTube video that showed all the pundits and their blatantly sexist attitudes. I do, however, know for a fact that he never called her "unqualified" to be president, and, from the start, he said she was a far better choice than McCain.

          So where is the nastiness of which you speak? Specifics...not just generalities.

          • Posted By: busby @ 06/08/2008 6:26:18 PM

            You just don't get it. You're not the only one around with a mind. You can't convince anyone - they'll decide for themselves. And who said Obama was nasty - I was talking about his supporters on these posts and you're still doing it. So keep ranting and see who you will turn.

            • Posted By: ozarkajuice @ 06/09/2008 10:44:34 AM

              The problem Busby, you just dont get it. you can sit here and blame Obama supporters for Hillary down fall. but the bottom line, obama supporters didnt do it. Hillary did it to her self. Did she not think her making up stories will not catch up to her in the end? or Agreeing not to count MI and FL , but come back almost a year later whining about why we are not counting them? come on , stop blaming others for her faults. if anything you guys should be happy with hillary. she put up a strong fight, but yet you guys want to be nasty and start blaming others.

            • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/08/2008 6:53:35 PM

              My bad.

              I was talking about the candidates...NOT their supporters (who, I might add, are not running for office).

              PS--
              this is America, you can vote for whomever you want for whatever reason you want.

            • Posted By: hillary1973 @ 06/08/2008 6:41:00 PM

              I agree with you that people will make their own decisions. I don't agree that Obama suppoters are nasty. Both Clinton and Obama have very passionate supporters, oddly McCain does not.

              Look, everybody has a reason they supported the people they supported. The only thing anyone can ask is that everyone makes decisions based on logic and intellect and accurate information and not purely emotion and spite. That's what people see from Hillary supporters here and many other places and it is simply frustrating to hear someone say things like "DROP DEAD" and "I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HIM" without being able to accurately explain why in any detail.

              Ranting will not help anyone and there needs to be a time of healing which is what Hillary asked all of her supporters to do. I'm not trying to persuade you one way or another. It is just hard for me to understand how people that call themselves life long Democrats would so cavalierly throw away such an important vote at this time in the US and vote for someone they don't really think would be a good president because they feel scorned about Hillary. A spite vote just doesn't seem very democratic to me.

      • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/09/2008 6:41:20 AM

        Even the NYT agrees with me...

        "Other historians said the real impact of the race on the Clinton legacy would not be clear until November.

        ???If McCain wins a race that Democrats expect to win, a lot of people will say, ???If she had won the nomination, we would have won,??? ??? said Michael Kazin, a historian at Georgetown University. That could set the stage for a Clinton candidacy in 2012.

        Many of Mr. Obama???s loyalists, however, would attribute his defeat to her relentless campaign against him. Such division among Democrats could persist through the next presidential cycle and leave Mrs. Clinton weakened."

        source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/us/politics/09legacy.html?ref=politics

      • Posted By: perumanian @ 06/08/2008 3:13:22 PM

        what are you trying to say? Because of some future benevolence you may show to a female candidate people should forget how the backstabing party kicked out one of their best and brought in the thin resume guy to run aaginst the experienced patriot. ???

        • Posted By: joe_mama @ 06/08/2008 3:45:22 PM

          what i'm trying to say:

          Clinton lost. She cannot win. All she can do is screw herself, her party, and the female candidates who try to follow in her footstep ("how can we trust a woman after what Clinton did...."). The same would be true if the tables were reversed ("we had a 'Black Candidate', and you saw how that worked out....").

          We live in a racist, sexist society. Admit it. The only way to effect change is to take over the mechanisms that control it--the 'White House and/or the National Committes (DNC & RNC).

          You can't win every fight. Sometimes, you need to swallow pride, learn from your mistakes, and position yourself to see that it never happens again.

          Is that clear enough for you?

        • Posted By: Zig Zag @ 06/08/2008 3:23:42 PM

          I've read your posts on other blogs. You're not a Hillary supporter. You're just another racist republican trying to sow dissent among democrats. Take your hate somewhere else bigot.

    • Posted By: hillary1973 @ 06/08/2008 6:25:16 PM

      The part where people have voted for him Gala. Record numbers ov voters have voted for him. If experience means so much to you, you were obvioulsy going to vote for McCain anyway. McCain vs Clinton in experience, McCain wins!

      I'm not sure if you've actually thought this through but change and experience don't really go together. How can you be the change candidate and be the most experienced, it's an oxymoron.

      If you have fooled yourself into believing that writing in Hillary you are not. You are only extending the Bush presidency then you get McCain, the president you deserve. Why is being in Independent so bad? And you have the audacity to call him entitled. Did you watch the campaign at all?

    • Posted By: EveryoneHasBias @ 06/08/2008 2:28:06 PM

      We are not so blind as you seem to believe. We are just of the opinion that experience is sometimes over-rated. You need some, yes, and Obama has some, though many choose to ignore it. However, there is no job that prepares you for being president of the US. The only training for it IS on-the-job training. Being a senator, one among many, does not ready you to be the #1 decision maker. I agree that Hillary would make a great president, but it's her policies that would make her so, not her experience. Those sound policies are nearly identical to Barack's, with a few exceptions. Writing in a vote for her is equivalent to voting for McCain, and if you truely agree with Sen. Clinton's policies you should realize how much damage this could cause our country.
      Also, all politicians are self-promoters. That's what campaigning is. In addition to that, to what sulky entitlement issues are you referring?

      • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 06/08/2008 4:51:15 PM

        I agree with this and have posted similar thoughts before. There is no resume that signalsprefect presidential training. It's just NOT like hiring a bookkeeper.

        The prime example is Abraham Lincoln who had LESS experience than Obama: 4 terms as a state congressman, one term in the U.S. House (but he was so unpopular he didn't run for reelction). When he ran for the Senate, he lost. When the new Republican Party nominated him. half the members were so distraught that they wanted hold a second convention and withdraw the nomination because the Democratic nominee was the most powerful Senator of the time. But Lincoln won and he is considered one of our greatest presidents.

        In contrast, Lincoln's predecessor, James Buchanan, had what would seem to be a supurb resume: 10 terms in the U.S. House, 10 years in the Senate, ambassador to both Britain and Russia and Secretary of State. He had it all -- or so it would seem. And he almost single-handedly destroyed the United States.

        Truman had a weak resume -- he was a creation of the Pendergast machine in Kansas City. But he had a strong presidency.

        Herbert Hoover had a strong resume -- and the little he did to offset the Depression (impose protective tarriffs) made things worse.

        There are too many intangibles connected with being a leader -- and that's what being a president is all about. A president doesn't write legislation, or gather intellegence. He or she does set policy and make decisions based on the the information gathered by the people he appoints and manages. I'm not sure what experience either Clinton or McCain have that is really germane to being a president. One is a policy wonk who has the details of 100 different programs at her fingertips. She should be in the thick of writing legislation and that role is in the Senate. McCain survived a prison camp and he did it heroically. But I'm not sure how that qualifies him for leadership. He was a pilot, not a general. In the Senate, he's had as many disasters (Keaning Five) as successes (Gang of 14). Both voted wrong on the war -- the seminal issue of our time. Obama got that one right.

  • Posted By: rfamily089@sbcglobal.net @ 06/08/2008 3:31:01 PM

    For the past year we've listened to debates; discussed with friends, and family; lived with foreclosures, higher and higher gas and food prices. So, we've decided that McCain may be the better choice because of experience, he isn't trying to CHANGE everything and everyone (its impossible) ; but with political experience, Senator McCain can change (Bush's war, job training and education for displaced workers, trade agreements, mandatory caps on carbon emissions).

    • Posted By: ozarkajuice @ 06/09/2008 10:30:09 AM

      Rfamily, i think you should pull the polices that bush has and what mcccain wants. because the 2 are exactly the same. not sure what you and your friends are smokeing when you guys haveing these type of discussions. but it seems like its some reallllly good stuff.

    • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/08/2008 3:40:54 PM

      Did you say McCain will change Bush was, job training and education, NEWS FLASH, McCain has the same policies and Bush thats why they are fundraising for him, Obama can bring change

      • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 06/08/2008 4:32:43 PM

        McCain is for the war for the next 100 years. He's for trade agreements -- strongly!. He's against job federal aid for job training. Not sure about carbon emmissions; I know he had made some statements that differ from Bush policy, but I don't know the details. So -- that's a possible one for four on your list of supposed McCain changes. And how is he different from Bush, again?

        PS -- you do know that his voting record shows a 95% agreement with the Bush people, don't you?

  • Posted By: Nins @ 06/09/2008 2:49:17 AM

    Here's some change you can believe in: the amount of times McCain has changed his values and positions on the issues.

    The reason half of the conservative Christian right hates McCain is because they think that they can't trust him. McCain started his career as part of the Christian right (there's a little-known fact). Once he landed in the soup as part of the Keating Five (which almost derailed his career) he positioned himself as a liberal and became a reformer for campaign finance in an effort to resurrect himself. For those of you who don't remember, the Keating scandal had to do with some shim sham corporations pumping money into McCain's coffers. So McCain became a reformer to shine up his tarnished image, and that was his first departure from the right.

    Other, more serious betrayals of the right came later, after McCain got swift boated by Bush in 1999. The great Texas Republican political machine laid McCain to waste, and McCain was mad as hell. He started voting against the party line and against Bush. He suddenly supported abortion rights, opposed the Bush tax cuts, co-sponsored a patient's bill of rights with Kennedy and Edwards, and got on the environmental bandwagon with John Kerry. My gosh, he even tried to crack down on gun shows in legislation he put forth with then-Democrat Joe Lieberman. And in 2001, when Senator Jeffords of Vermont switched from Republican to Independent in an effort to counteract Bush's stranglehold on the Senate, McCain announced that he was considering becoming a Democrat, and went into a pow-wow with Senator Tom Daschle at his Sedona ranch. And did you know that John Kerry floated the idea of having McCain as his VP in '04? That was to have cemented his status as a newly-minted Democrat.

    But instead of joining Kerry, McCain suddenly switched his affiliation, came out in support of Bush in '04, and jettisoned his liberal image. Suddenly, it was the "old" McCain from the 1980s back in the saddle, the neo-conservative, take no prisoners Creationist. Against abortion. For the war. The SAME man who opposed a Federal amendment banning gay marriage and openly met with gay groups now was pushing a gay marriage ban in Arizona. The SAME man who said in 1999 that he was opposed to overturning Roe vs. Wade, now suddenly in 2007 is promising that he will stack the deck in the Supreme Court with religious right judges and overturn Roe vs. Wade.

    But the religious right isn't so sure about him. He's supported so many different opposing positions at so many times, that they are afraid that they are getting played in the name of McCain's political expediency.

    Here are videos that show clips of McCain reversing himself on the same issues at different times, to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Don't believe me -- get it straight from the horse's mouth:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&feature=related

    • Posted By: griffin1 @ 06/09/2008 10:24:41 AM

      very well said, Nins

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse