‘If He Were Here, It Would Be Different’

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  • Posted By: Red Dirt Brother @ 06/11/2008 10:18:30 AM

    Mr. Williams, how is it you can read the scriptures but cannot read the times? Is it true that the original scriptures were written in Aramaic and Latin and only re-interpreted during the middle ages by over zealous persons such as yourself and that there were scriptures by Judas himself that the church burned and hidden? Or is the evidence found just in the minds of scientist? Also, I feel your fascination with the devil and hell only perpetuates the worst in mankind and excuses his plight to fulfill the rapture and the end of life on this planet, kind of a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY? Do we not have our futures in our own hands? If there is a book of life, then why worship God if we are damned to eternity anyway? I have never heard two Christians agree on any ONE scripture! Did you know the bible was written by Jesus??? disciples and not Jesus himself? Therefore, everything in your faith is up to interpretation, RIGHT?

    • Posted By: Pastor Terrence @ 06/11/2008 2:07:32 PM

      In response to Red Dirt Brother's comments to my father, Terry Williams: I read the times through the lens of Scripture, just as you read them through the lens of your limited understanding of man's opinion, your cultural heritage, and past hurts. I would rather stand upon the firm foundation of the never-changing Word of an eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and infallible God; than the constant and contradictory blathering of limited and fallible men.

      Concerning the Scriptures, I would never compare the Koran with the Bible and the Torah is part of the Old Testament. The Bible was written by over 40 different authors, from a wide variety of backgrounds, from three different continents, in 3 different languages (Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek), over a period of 1500 years, with absolutely no true contradiction. The Bible is the best-selling book of all time and is the most historically established ancient work, as well. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and translated into Greek over 200 years before Christ. The book of Ezekiel contained Aramaic, as well, as Hebrew. The New Testament was originally written in Greek and translated along with the Old Testament into the Latin Vulgate by Jerome. In 1611, the Old and New Testaments were translated fully into English by 46 top scholars of the time. In 1947, the dead sea scrolls were found and and the Biblical Texts were practically identical to our modern translations. We currently have over 25,000 early manuscripts of the New Testament and all serious scholars agree that we can truly know with confidence the text of the original Scriptures. Not to mention, all of the fulfilled prophecy, medical knowledge, scientific and historical statements that the Bible makes that have been confirmed in the last 100 to 150 years.

      You mentioned the Gospel of Judas. This document was written well over 200 years after Christ (way after everyone that knew Him had died) by a non-Christian group called the Gnostics. However, the Gospel of Mark was completed and published within less than thirty years after the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15, which contains the earliest Christian Creed, was written before that. Surely, there were people still living that could have denied Gospel Truth, however, they could not. The enemies of Christ admitted that His tomb was empty and followers of Christ were willing to die because they had seen Him alive after the resurrection!

      Because He Lives,

      Pastor Terrence H. Williams
      Greater Things Fellowship, SBC
      West Virginia, USA

    • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 06/11/2008 12:01:47 PM

      Just a quick comment on your post. Regarding Judas, I believe that I heard something recently that the gospels of Judas have been located. I think I heard something about it on National Geograhic.

  • Posted By: davechar1@msn.com @ 06/11/2008 2:06:03 PM

    Let's see....Jerry Falwell's income was only generated by his church, and he took his kid to McDonald's in a limo. His inflammatory comments and intolerance of everything he doesn't agree with is NOT an example of the teachings of Jesus, whom he claims to worship. No, he was just another bigoted, greedy jerk that took advantage of others. He'll have plenty of company where he went.

  • Posted By: davechar1@msn.com @ 06/11/2008 2:04:47 PM

    Let's see....Jerry Falwell's income was only generated by his church, and he took his kid to McDonald's in a limo. His inflammatory comments and intolerance of everything he doesn't agree with is NOT an example of the teachings of Jesus, whom he claims to worship. No, he was just another bigoted, greedy jerk that took advantage of others. He'll have plenty of company where he went.

  • Posted By: Pastor Terrence @ 06/11/2008 2:03:05 PM

    To Red Dirt Brother and others of the same mindset:

    Why attack Falwell who has passed on??? (A man who helped countless poor, alcoholic men, young girls with crisis pregnancies, and genuinely cared for his critics and their families) Why be belligerent about the proven Word of God??? Why resort to arguments about morality, sinful men, and racial divides. (The Bible says that we all come from Adam and Noah, and that "God has made all nations from one blood" Acts 17). God is not concerned with what color of skin you have or whether you are male or female, but whether you have trusted His Word and have a personal relationship with Him through His Son Jesus Christ!!! You cannot argue with God!! You are only trying to squirm your way out of being held accountable and Judged by His standards and attempting to justify living your life, your way. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but through me!" I did not say that, Jesus did!!! I did not make Truth narrow!!! God did! If you have a problem with it, take it up with Him!!! I hope you come to the knowledge of the truth before it is eternally too late!!! Thank you and may God's Holy Spirit speak to you through His Holy Word!

    Because He Lives,

    Pastor Terrence H. Williams
    Greater Things Fellowship, SBC
    West Virginia, USA

  • Posted By: Pastor Terrence @ 06/11/2008 2:00:41 PM

    In response to Red Dirt Brother's comments to my father, Terry Williams: I read the times through the lens of Scripture, just as you read them through the lens of your limited understanding of man's opinion, your cultural heritage, and past hurts. I would rather stand upon the firm foundation of the never-changing Word of an eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and infallible God; than the constant and contradictory blathering of limited and fallible men.

    Concerning the Scriptures, I would never compare the Koran with the Bible and the Torah is part of the Old Testament. The Bible was written by over 40 different authors, from a wide variety of backgrounds, from three different continents, in 3 different languages (Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek), over a period of 1500 years, with absolutely no true contradiction. The Bible is the best-selling book of all time and is the most historically established ancient work, as well. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and translated into Greek over 200 years before Christ. The book of Ezekiel contained Aramaic, as well, as Hebrew. The New Testament was originally written in Greek and translated along with the Old Testament into the Latin Vulgate by Jerome. In 1611, the Old and New Testaments were translated fully into English by 46 top scholars of the time. In 1947, the dead sea scrolls were found and and the Biblical Texts were practically identical to our modern translations. We currently have over 25,000 early manuscripts of the New Testament and all serious scholars agree that we can truly know with confidence the text of the original Scriptures. Not to mention, all of the fulfilled prophecy, medical knowledge, scientific and historical statements that the Bible makes that have been confirmed in the last 100 to 150 years.

    You mentioned the Gospel of Judas. This document was written well over 200 years after Christ (way after everyone that knew Him had died) by a non-Christian group called the Gnostics. However, the Gospel of Mark was completed and published within less than thirty years after the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15, which contains the earliest Christian Creed, was written before that. Surely, there were people still living that could have denied Gospel Truth, however, they could not. The enemies of Christ admitted that His tomb was empty and followers of Christ were willing to die because they had seen Him alive after the resurrection!

    Because He Lives,

    Pastor Terrence H. Williams
    Greater Things Fellowship, SBC
    West Virginia, USA

  • Posted By: neildiamond @ 06/10/2008 11:05:58 PM

    Perhaps, wildlifeusa, you have forgotten, (chose to forget?) that the political United Staes of America was founded upon "Religion" (Christianity, to be specific and accurate) and that the institution of government is NOT a human invention. You should not be labeled an animal fanatic because of your held beliefs on preservation, and etc., nor should you be institutionalized. Neither should Christians who believe that the USA should embrace it's Judeo-Christian Heritage and beliefs, and also tolerate those who oppose. Hate? Oh my, did you read what you wrote? What poison you poison yourself and others with. We Christians hate the evils of the Bible, NOT the eviloers and sinners whom God loves and died for. As a 30yr plus veteran of one of our armed forces, many have died for your freedoms to publicly disagree and ridicule others.

    • Posted By: Andrew88 @ 06/11/2008 1:00:36 PM

      Wrong wrong wrong. A few christian fundamentalists attempt to convince us to return to the Christianity of early America, yet according to the historian, Robert T. Handy, "No more than 10 percent-- probably less-- of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations."

      The Founding Fathers, also, rarely practiced Christian orthodoxy. Although they supported the free exercise of any religion, they understood the dangers of religion. Most of them believed in deism and attended Freemasonry lodges. According to John J. Robinson, "Freemasonry had been a powerful force for religious freedom." Freemasons took seriously the principle that men should worship according to their own conscience. Masonry welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.

      The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

      If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."



    • Posted By: scamomile @ 06/10/2008 11:31:07 PM

      Any pastor/preacher/priest that even MENTIONS political subjects in his church should have their tax-exempt status stripped permanently. PERIOD. If he were as effective as he claimed to his congregation, he certainly shouldn't have to tell them how to vote, now should he??

      Yes, absolutely. Religion and religious ideas need to stay out of the political arena. We need to start punishing them by taking away their tax-exempt status. I agree with this even though I am a religious person. Although, I hate to use the word "religious". I prefer "spiritual person". I am trying to be a better overall person. I do not wish to cram my religious and spiritual beliefs on others. They are just that, beliefs. It is a walk of faith and nothing else. I understand that the burden of proof is on me, therefore, it only seems right I should never ever impose those beliefs on others. It's just simply wrong. In the end, I believe we'll all be judged as what kind of person we were. Were we kind? did we love others? And only god can answer those questions. I can not know your most inner thoughts and your deepest heart felt convictions. Peace to all of you, regardless of race, religion, gender, etc. Peace I say.

  • Posted By: apikores @ 06/11/2008 12:37:09 PM

    how does the expression go? good riddance to bad rubbish?

  • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 9:48:28 AM

    Macel: "You come in sometimes, and I don't have anything to do."

    She could serve the poor.

    Terry Williams: "...the World is basically round and not flat."

    Not according to the Bible.

    Terry Williams: "There is one individual that is broad minded and tolerates...murder...."

    Lots of individuals tolerate murder: all the people who voted for Bush. War is mass murder.

    Repent your sins, Terry Williams, and vote for someone who will end war. And use your time and money to adopt the many, many children that await adoption.

    • Posted By: Williams25064 @ 06/11/2008 10:52:38 AM

      In response to the comment by washchadblip, the Word of God states in Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

      War is an armed conflict of opposing forces and some innocent people can and do get killed. You may call this murder. God's Word states that anyone who hates his brother is a murderer (I John 3:15). All sin is the same in God's eyes. Compare Hitler with Saddam and what was already happening to innocent people in Iraq. People were being murdered and tortured every day. Will the war end even if we remove all of our troops?

      We live in a broken world, and Jesus is our only Hope and Salvation. We are all sinners and must repent of our sins. Christians are not perfect people, just forgiven by Grace.

      Terry Williams
      West Virginia

  • Posted By: fightthetheocracy! @ 06/11/2008 10:40:23 AM

    I think I'll blame christians for 9/11. I figure I have about as much proof as Flawell did when he made his BS claims. If people were wiling to take him at his word then why not me?

  • Posted By: Red Dirt Brother @ 06/11/2008 7:59:40 AM

    How can there be a hell when people are being blown to bits over your Christian Republicans goal of hating and destroying anything and anyone that doesn???t know the story of Jesus? If Jesus died for our sins, why don???t Christians pay a penance called taxes instead of building mega-mall-churches and give money to the likes of Falwell, the Bakkers, etc,. These people reaped the wealth of the earth and then go to heaven? What a bunch of blind idiots! Have you not known that Christ did say that even the tax collectors get to heaven before you who pray in public and claim Christ is your savior. We all know the story. His coming to be; his life and ministry; his persecution from RELIGIOUS folks of his day! Jesus was a law-breaker back in the day. All your scripture quoting and preaching is in vain. How you treat your fellow man would show your true heart instead of trying to pimp for an institution. There is little or no difference between Muslim hate and Christianity hate. I do not believe in hell or the devil since man is the greatest evil to his world and hell is a state of mind. Hell is torture on earth idiots, and you Christians put the devil in the Whitehouse and expect anyone to take you seriously? Even Christ himself said it wasn???t about a church, book, or ???best??? religion. You Christian folk are just blinded by your own zeal, so your hell is yet to come while the rest of the world is burning! Think about it!

    • Posted By: fiber artist @ 06/11/2008 10:32:50 AM

      Jesus also said that it's easier for a cow to go through the eye of the needle than for a wealthy man to get to heaven - I think all these ultra wealthy evangelicals are going to burn in their own hell - it's a good thing I don't believe in hell and I'm nowhere near even middle class, let alone wealthy. They should feel guilty about all this wealth and about hatred and torture and mass murder!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/11/2008 10:08:37 AM

    This was a man who convinced a lot of people that when he died his body would physically ascend to heaven in some sort of rapture and he was made into a national authority on politics and religion and even on the cause of the 9/11 tower destruction. He figured that we had brought it on ourselves in pursuit of sinful pleasure. This phenomenon is reflective of the many layers of understanding in our population and there is one great big thick layer named "ignorance" that seems to flourish. His wonders to perform.

  • Posted By: fightthetheocracy! @ 06/11/2008 10:01:09 AM

    The man blamed people like me for 9/11. He can rot for all I care and I hope all of his defenders on here rot with him. The man preached hate and anyone who agrees with him is just as hateful as he was. There is no way any of you are in a position to lecture the rest of us about morality, especially after the last eight years. Why don't you all go find some books to burn or some gay kid to strap to a fence post and flog to death somewhere, it's what your good at.

  • Posted By: Williams25064 @ 06/11/2008 9:41:57 AM

    If Red Dirt Brother would take the time to read the Word of God in chapter 15 of I Corinthians, and open his heart to the Truth of God's Holy Word, then he would know that quoting scripture or preaching is NOT in vain. There is Absolute Truth in Jesus Christ and in His Word. It doesn't matter whether we believe in Hell or Not for it to exist, Jesus spoke of Hell, and He now holds the keys to it and the grave. Also, the Devil does indeed exist and he hates all of God's Creation. Hate never comes from God for any people, and a true Christian only hates the Sin, not the Sinner!. Jerry Falwell did not hate anyone, only the sin committed by them!
    Being a Christian is not a religion, but a personal relationship with Christ and each other.

    Jerry Falwell was just a man, a sinner, saved by Grace. Yes he was narrow minded about the Holy Word of God! The Bible tells us that there is only one way to God, for all people, by admitting that we are sinners and repenting of those sins, and accepting that Jesus Christ died for those sins and rose from the dead, that He is our personal Savior and is now sitting at the right hand of God! This is what Jerry Falwell knew and believed!

    You may call this a fairy tale. However, my Creator is alive and He created all things. I challenge you to read His Word entirely, not just bits and pieces. Also, if you don't believe in God or Christ, read former atheist Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ," then make your decision one way or the other. When you leave this world and stand before God Almighty, I pray that you have made the wise decision to accept Him. Again, I dare you to read Psalm 14:1-5, and then the entire Word of God!

    As a Christian, the only Good in me or anyone else is Jesus Christ, for there is none Good, not one, but God! The Book of John tells us that the Word was with God, and the Word was made flesh, in Jesus, and that He was God. Jerry Falwell witnessed the deeds of many people, just as you and I have, he knew the sinful nature of people, and as a servant of God, he preached against those personal sins and those of our nation,
    such as killing unborn babies through abortion. I met and spoke with Jerry four times since 1975 and I know that he loved all people, and prayed that we would turn from our sin and see the truth and accept Christ!

    Yes, truth is narrow, just as 2 + 2 is 4, and not 5; and that the World is basically round and not flat. The Narrow Path of Righteousness and Truth may be unreasonable to those that shout about Tolerance. There is one individual that is broad minded and tolerates lying, cheating, theft, murder, adultery, homosexuality, and child abuse, to name a few, and his name is Satan. This is the Truth that Jerry Falwell preached, if you didn't take him out of context.

    Terry Williams, West Virginia

  • Posted By: jath123 @ 06/11/2008 9:19:47 AM

    Dear Newsweek; As you say yourself "the book is lightweight and probably of interest only to Falwell's followers". Precisely. And you are featuring it as a lead news story why? This woman has all the intellectual and literary gravitas of Paris Hilton.

    • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 9:29:55 AM

      They probably feature it because it panders to the Right and enrages the Left. The Left's righteous outrage engenders responses, which helps sell ads.

  • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 9:15:12 AM

    And Macel is going to cast another vote for the Torture Party. So, while she misses Jerry on her luxurious sofas and fondles the cross, an instrument of torture, suspects held without due process are being tortured.

  • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 9:03:03 AM

    Here's the way it's going to play:

    America has been morally (torture, imperialism, gulags) and fiscally (trillions of dollars of addtional debt and a rotting infrastructure) bankrupted by Bush. Bush was elected by fundies organized by Falwell and others. More and more middle class people are becoming poor folks. If you're a fundy and you have a beloved home, can you heat it and cool it when fuel prices double? Triple? The gov't won't save you: it's broke. And it's indifferent. You saw what happened in New Orleans.

    And you better pray every night that there is no God, since you voted for the Torture Party, the Republicans. Jesus was tortured. How do you think Jesus would feel about a person who votes for torture?

  • Posted By: HollyTerror @ 06/11/2008 12:21:28 AM

    I'm sorry but I have nothing good to say about Jerry Falwell ecepting perhaps that two thing he certainly did not have in relation to my life, that being powerless and being of non influence.

    Me and Jesus will stick with Obama. McSame and the far right churches have a lot in common, they remain rich and strive to get richer. Pass the plate!

    • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 12:23:29 AM

      Yep, and I note that not one fundy has replied to my several posts about the Bible's warnings about wealth. And Falwell was a multi-millionaire.

      • Posted By: sprues1 @ 06/11/2008 12:26:23 AM

        Funny, isn't it? Surely, there must be one, poor man of influence, in the religious right.

        • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 12:30:15 AM

          Nope, they all hoard. They could feed the poor, but instead of suffering the children, they let the children suffer. And die. How many children could Falwell have saved if he'd sold his mansion? And his plane?

          • Posted By: MauiKimo @ 06/11/2008 12:55:23 AM

            From a Fundy, Falwell was not a multi millionaire. Two, while the love of money is the root of evil, money itself is not. The Bible also requires people to act responsibly, we must pay our bills, we must provide for our families. We are also to care for those in need. While I do not live a life of poverty, I do live comfortably and try to spend money wisely so as to have extra funds for those in need.

            The idea of giving all your money away is really a strawman, you would just as quickly ridicule anyone who was "foolish" enough to do so. In fact this message board is filled with comments to that about those who gave to Jerry and others.

            As a Christian, I live by faith, but I also work as the Bible commands. I have seen times in my life and others where God has supplied needs out of nowhere. I have been able to give to God beyond my means on occasion and have been blessed in return. At other times I have just gone on with my life. I also have known times when I was tight fisted and chose not to help.

            If Christians should give all their money away to help the poor, how about all those rich Hollywood stars and recording artests whipe out world hunger with a check or two.

            • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 8:44:10 AM

              One more comment: you know the two most generous people are atheists: Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Contrast them with the Walton heirs of Wal-Mart, who burrow into the earth and stockpile their bunkers with food and luxuries. In case the world goes badly, they're prepared to stay as far from Jesus for as long as they can. I once smiled when I passed churches. Nowadays, when I pass a fundy church, I get the heeby-jeebies.

              I think, "That's where the pro-torture people congregate."

            • Posted By: washchadblip @ 06/11/2008 8:41:13 AM

              Why should Hollywood stars give all they have if they don't pretend to follow a book that mandates just that?

              So, you hoard? You don't trust God to care for you? You've asserted that when you've given beyond your means, you were more than recompensated. So, give it all. You'll be more than recompensated. Right? Right? Right?

              If sweet Jesus went to your church, He'd go postal, tipping tables and spilling your collection trays. Your love of money is clear through your actions. You hoard, doling out some here and there, while children starve. You don't trust in God to care for you, even though God has more than cared for you whenever you've given.

  • Posted By: Red Dirt Brother @ 06/11/2008 7:59:24 AM

    How can there be a hell when people are being blown to bits over your Christian Republicans goal of hating and destroying anything and anyone that doesn???t know the story of Jesus? If Jesus died for our sins, why don???t Christians pay a penance called taxes instead of building mega-mall-churches and give money to the likes of Falwell, the Bakkers, etc,. These people reaped the wealth of the earth and then go to heaven? What a bunch of blind idiots! Have you not known that Christ did say that even the tax collectors get to heaven before you who pray in public and claim Christ is your savior. We all know the story. His coming to be; his life and ministry; his persecution from RELIGIOUS folks of his day! Jesus was a law-breaker back in the day. All your scripture quoting and preaching is in vain. How you treat your fellow man would show your true heart instead of trying to pimp for an institution. There is little or no difference between Muslim hate and Christianity hate. I do not believe in hell or the devil since man is the greatest evil to his world and hell is a state of mind. Hell is torture on earth idiots, and you Christians put the devil in the Whitehouse and expect anyone to take you seriously? Even Christ himself said it wasn???t about a church, book, or ???best??? religion. You Christian folk are just blinded by your own zeal, so your hell is yet to come while the rest of the world is burning! Think about it!

  • Posted By: Red Dirt Brother @ 06/11/2008 7:59:19 AM

    How can there be a hell when people are being blown to bits over your Christian Republicans goal of hating and destroying anything and anyone that doesn???t know the story of Jesus? If Jesus died for our sins, why don???t Christians pay a penance called taxes instead of building mega-mall-churches and give money to the likes of Falwell, the Bakkers, etc,. These people reaped the wealth of the earth and then go to heaven? What a bunch of blind idiots! Have you not known that Christ did say that even the tax collectors get to heaven before you who pray in public and claim Christ is your savior. We all know the story. His coming to be; his life and ministry; his persecution from RELIGIOUS folks of his day! Jesus was a law-breaker back in the day. All your scripture quoting and preaching is in vain. How you treat your fellow man would show your true heart instead of trying to pimp for an institution. There is little or no difference between Muslim hate and Christianity hate. I do not believe in hell or the devil since man is the greatest evil to his world and hell is a state of mind. Hell is torture on earth idiots, and you Christians put the devil in the Whitehouse and expect anyone to take you seriously? Even Christ himself said it wasn???t about a church, book, or ???best??? religion. You Christian folk are just blinded by your own zeal, so your hell is yet to come while the rest of the world is burning! Think about it!

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