Let Me Worship as I Am

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  • Posted By: mdharnois @ 06/24/2008 5:19:48 PM

    Wow. I'm 52, have a BA, an MDiv and a JD, go to church at least 50 weeks a year, and I'm not nearly as certain about what God would have us believe as is mm1228. But I am absolutely certain that God is not about hate and condemnation.

  • Posted By: mm1228 @ 06/24/2008 3:33:22 PM

    I agree with the second poster. If we profess to be Christian, we can't make up our own rules about what the Bible says, or try to change God's truth. God's truth never changes, and gay lifestlye is just as sinful today as it was when the book was written. If we want to follow God and be Christian, we must abide by all of his standards and commands. He does love us all, reguardless, but he does not love people thinking the know better than him and trying to rewrite his commands. The fact is that Christians believe the gay lifestlye to be a sinful, unnatural, uhealthy one and God does not want us to have anything to do with it. If this person were really saved and really believed God's message, he would see the hypocrasy and shamefulness of claming to be saved yet continuing to think it's okay to live in sin. He may think God's okay with it because he hasn't been punished but in time he will have to stand before God and he will recieve his punishment.

  • Posted By: BAJUAMDA @ 06/22/2008 3:21:04 PM

    Let???s take this one step at a time. First: Christianity is a belief in God. It s called ???Christianity??? because of the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was (and is) the long-awaited ???Christ??? (anointed one) of the Jewish Faith, i.e. the Messiah. Christianity therefore believes in the God who is revealed in the pages of the Hebrew scriptures (also called the ???Old Testament???) The difference between Jews and Christians is that Christians believe that the Messiah promised to the Jewish people in those scriptures came to earth in the person of Jesus. The revelation of Him and his teachings, and of those whom He chose to spread the ???good news??? (gospel) of His coming, are recorded in the New Testament. Put them together and you have what Christians call the Bible.
    A huge part of being a Christian is the belief that what God is like is revealed in the pages of that Bible: His character, His nature, His ways. He calls those who believe and follow Him to be like Him. It is very clear, even from a brief reading of those scriptures, that there are certain things that God likes, and certain things that He does not. ???Do not kill, do not steal??? are a couple that most people could quote. One of the things called ???abomination??? (that???s pretty strong dislike) in the Bible is for ???a man to lie with another man?????? Lest we think that this is just ???Old Testament thinking???, the New Testament also warns us:???Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. ??? (Romans 1:26-27)
    If we say that we are Christians, we say that we are buying into the Christian faith. We are ???eating the soup??? ( if I may borrow from the author) of the Bible, of divine creation, the deity of Christ, the authority of scripture, to name a few (soups, that is).
    If we are to eat the soup of Christianity, we are not entitled to simply eat the noodles but not the chicken, or eat the celery but not the carrots (because God created me to be a carrot hater). If God made the Soup, it is good for us. All of it.

  • Posted By: BotBot @ 06/14/2008 7:31:00 PM

    There are those who read the Bible to justify their perfidy. If Catholic priests can be celibate until death anyone can do so, regardless of their inner "orientation". It shouldn't be harder for homosexuals to be celibate than heterosexuals.

    • Posted By: LLcoolTM @ 06/16/2008 8:02:03 PM

      Celibate Catholic priests...yes, look how that has turned out.

      This is not about sex, this is about love. Love is the best thing about people. It is the core of all goodness and beauty. I refuse to believe any Lord, even yours, would condemn people based upon whom they love. If you cannot understand that, then I pity your empty, lonely soul.

      • Posted By: HomeBrewMan @ 06/18/2008 9:18:00 AM

        Apparently no one who post that homosexuality is acceptable has read 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10. -- What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God???s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God???s kingdom. -- that is pretty clear as to what you should or should not be doing

        • Posted By: episcopalguy @ 06/20/2008 2:17:31 PM

          Not one of us deserves the kingdom of heaven. All have fallen short. Every one. Reread Romans!

          You cannot tear a quote out of context and ignore the whole thrust of the Christian message -- which is God's unfathomable love, given to the point of folly; and the marvel of undeserved grace. That will trump Pharasaic sifting through the text every time

          That

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 06/18/2008 7:49:45 PM

          Homebrew,

          Since there are highly educated theologians who disagree with you, it is not at all clear.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 06/17/2008 1:17:27 PM

      "There are those who read the Bible to justify their perfidy. If Catholic priests can be celibate until death anyone can do so, regardless of their inner "orientation". It shouldn't be harder for homosexuals to be celibate than heterosexuals.:"

      Except that there is no valid reason for anyone to have to be celibate. andf many, many , many CAtholic preiesst are not really celibate. They just hide their sexual activities. Also, they are "called" to be celibate while everyone else is called to be sexual.. Sexuality is a good thing. Homosexuality is a natural and normal state, regardless of what some mindless drones quoting a popular and well-read but still completely man-made book think.

  • Posted By: HomeBrewMan @ 06/18/2008 1:40:55 PM

    Well, if you read the bible, it would tell you at 1Corinthians 6:9, 10 -- What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 06/19/2008 10:36:46 AM

      Not inheritting something that only exists in the imagination of certain humans. Not that big a problem.


      • Posted By: nmjhh @ 06/19/2008 1:04:09 PM

        But what if it's NOT just an imagination as you suggest. What it this inheritance is REAL? Then you have something to ponder...

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 06/19/2008 3:54:56 PM

          Not really. I have studied this stuff for years and finally came to educated realization that there is no irrefutable proof of god's existance. In science the burden of proof lies with the affiremative stae (existance) . Lacking that the default position is the nagaitve (non-exisatnce.) Even religious scientists of any real skill and educaiton acknowledge that. I know, I have talked to some of them. When asked why they still believe they say "faith". But they still acknowledge that there is no proof and that the burden of proof rests with those who believe, not those who do not.

          If you want to believe, that is fine. If your belief in god and your religion inspires you treat your fellow and the planet well, then I respect that. You should not change. But it is not needed by everyone.

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/19/2008 10:19:16 AM

      Yeah so we're pretty much all out. I mean, kids out of wedlock (40% of kids born today), sex before marriage (the majority of the population), anyone who drinks and gets drunk (bye bye college kids!), etc.

  • Posted By: mongooselove@sbcglobal.net @ 06/18/2008 7:17:14 PM

    I feel like most people are missing the point of this article. Which I understand, do to the fact that the themes are so easily topic torrents, ie Religion and Homosexuality. So aside from comments that will flow with opinions, I think the point made is really concrete. And if anything should be discussed, let it be the about what people feel about such a huge change in ones life, and what that brings.
    I cannot even imagine what it must be like for someone to have a faith so defined for so many years in ones life, and then be willing to really work so very hard to let go and begin a new path. It's like working as a doctor for years, then going to school to become a lawyer. I don't actually think :taking the soup" is the easier way. Though at first it might feel easier and softer, it's actually opening backs one life to grow with a new vigor. To stay the same, to stay stagment, that is the comfort of being complacent, and I for one would hate to be a prisoner in my own life. even if I am promised a kingdom in the next.

  • Posted By: shawnp @ 06/18/2008 3:12:34 PM

    I was elated to open NEWSWEEK and recognize a picture of the sanctuary in which I worship! St. Thomas of the Apostle Episcopal Church of Hollywood is the church I've come to call home since moving to LA and I can certainly attest to the overall spirit of Christ that is felt there. :)

  • Posted By: Micky Marsh @ 06/16/2008 11:26:37 AM

    Yes for now let everyone be as he is; "BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER" UNTIL THE GREAT HARVEST.

    • Posted By: LLcoolTM @ 06/16/2008 8:03:47 PM

      Indeed, and the prideful will surely be separated from the loving.

  • Posted By: lgonzo @ 06/16/2008 3:27:50 PM

    Thank you for your wonderful article about the community you found in the Episcopal Church. As a "cradle Episcopalian" I have heard many say that my church has no set of values, or that doesn't follow the teachings of Christ and the Bible. But Jimmy Doyle's description of the Episcopal Church as having a "Chrisitianity that [is] alive and evolving and [sees] God's creation in many things" is the church I know and love. It is not an easy church to be a member of, but it provides me with the spiritual, intellectual and religious experience I need and cherish, a community that honors the many talents and skills of all, looks to the Holy Spirit for guidance, to Jesus for a vision of how the world could be, and to God for unconditional love.

  • Posted By: deebee1222 @ 06/16/2008 1:47:42 PM

    Great piece. Christianity is based on love, not on difference. Sounds like you have found a new home.

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