FACTCHECK.ORG

Obama's Inflated Health Savings

He claims that a shift to electronic medical records will help save families up to $2,500 a year in his first term. Independent experts say that's wishful thinking.

By Jess Henig and Lori Robertson | factcheck.org
Jun 16, 2008 | Updated: 3:58  p.m. ET Jun 16, 2008

« Return to Article

 
Discuss
 
Member Comments
  • Posted By: AmeriKhan Lobo @ 06/24/2008 3:43:42 PM

    Comment: I have a son who was born in Costa Rica. I paid the doctor $1000 and I paid $1000 for 1 1/2 days in a private hospital which was as clean and secure as any hospital I've been to in the US. We had a private room with an extra futon bed and a large LCD screen TV. I was able to be right next to my wife, I was the fist to hold my son and I cut the "cord" on both ends. I would've paid closer to $10,000 in the US.

    1 week later we found out that my son had pulmonary valve stenosis( an almost closed valve in his heart. We took him to the Children's Hospital which is rated the 2nd best hospital for children in all of Latin America. The operation and hospital stay would have cost me at least $30,000 in the US but I didn't have to pay a dime because my son was a Costa Rican by birth.
    My son's surgery couldn't have gone any better than it did and he is now in perfect health.

    The World Health Organization ranks the US health system at #37. Costa Rica is one higher at #36. Saudi Arabia is # 26. Singapore is #6 and France is #1. I know you would like to believe the US is #1 but it's just not so.

  • Posted By: gcparee @ 06/20/2008 8:47:51 AM

    Comment: yhere nothing this mam says that turna out .

  • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/19/2008 5:30:26 PM

    Comment: This was a fun one:

    Posted By: Zombiehero @ 06/19/2008 15:35:41
    Comment: FEAR FEAR FEAR....is that all Obama has now, since people can see past his smoke screen on "Change," "Hope," and "New Politics."

    Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/19/2008 17:02:25
    Comment: Hey you just satrted the McCain general election chant, keep going, it' goes like this:
    "Fear, Fear, Fear, the Brown Boogeymen are here,
    Now Ilay me down to sleep, McCain has said my
    safety he'll keep.
    When I'm 18 it's off to his war,
    see my mom and dad no more
    OIL is what we are fighting for,
    FEAR, FEAR, FEAR!!!

  • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:31:51 PM

    Comment: You're right you are not flip flopping, That's Johny Mac. I have been arround long enough to remember that under Clinton (bill) we had a strong economy and a 3billion dollar surplus, granted there were other issues there, but I belive he delivered on promised (not all of it) and there was change.
    I've seen Bush 1 say "NO NEW TAXES" and completely lie. I've seen Bush 1 take us to Kuwait to defend his Oil rigs off the coast from the Iraqis. I remember the Iran Contra Scandal and dear old Ronnie. I remember the Saings and Loan Scandal in Az involving John McCain and Charles Keating, both crooks.
    I have seen what Bush 2 has done to this country, physically (killing our troops for OIL), financially, eomotionally, economically, and spiritually has destroyed all we had achieved in all time past.
    I've been here through Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and NO! Obama is not like anything or anybody I've seen in my living history. Now, inspirational as Kenedy or King, yes, Intelligent..inagruably so, dignified, humble, confident, restrained, honest, carring, strong, consistant, all these describe only one candidate running Obama.

    You're right I did say Black Man, as I am not afraid to say it, to me it's not a dirty word.

    As for the 04 election, we have lost 3000 more of our sons and daughters thanks to sheeple believing in the brown boogeymen in funny hats, tursting bush yet again, and to what end?

    This election is not a matter of "the lessor of two evils", as only one is Evil, McCain. Under his reign we would only see more dead, more destruction, and our country brought finally to it's knees, not by the boogeymen but by McCain/Bush policies that have already weakened us, killed nearly 4500 Aericans, and crippled the economy, while bush and his daddy's buddies have gotten more and morw wealthy.

    In closing you're last paragraph only further proves my point, none of the things you listed are REAL issues for anybody but those trying to find any other reason but the TRUE reason they hate him so much they would sooner kill thousands more of America's children then vote for a "BALCK MAN"...said it again, can you say it yet. Just say it, admit it, because all of this "Rev. Wright, Farrahkan, Pfleger, Rezko, Ayers, and all the rest"...is NOTHING and You know that as well as I do, I'm sure!!!!

    • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/19/2008 12:41:35 AM

      Comment: HDAVIDSON you said :I've been here through Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush. Just wondering which of these presidents did you like and think did a good job as President?

  • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/18/2008 1:35:02 PM

    Comment: HDavidson: Yes Obama has come across as more of the same, even worse, he was elected Senator in Illinois and has done nothing since elected except run for president. Even his 20 year Rev. and Mentor Said he talks like a politition and says what politions say. Obama has no experience thats right, and he talks like all polititions do. Thats right too !!! I am not the one that is flip flopping,I am saying it like it is, all polititions promise everything and once elected hardly ever follow through. I'm sure you know this is true you don't sound like a young kid who knows nothing. You have been around long enough to have seen plenty of polititions elected and then see none of the change they talked about before happen. I am not the one who said black man ,you did. Since he has done nothing as senator what makes you think he would do anything as president!!!!!!!! I do have logic it's just different than yours. It would be really boring if we all thought the same, wouldn't it, who could you dissagree with? This election is just like the election 4 years ago Bush and Kerry the only funny thing about that election was Jib Jab put out a funny video about them both that pretty much discribed them both as idiots and it gave people something to laugh about. In that election it came down to choose between the lessor of 2 evils and this election is the same. 2 candidates McCain and Obama I will again have to choose between the lessor of 2 evils and because of all Of Obama's friends like Rev. Wright, Farrahkan, Pfleger, Rezko, Ayers, and all the rest I choose to vote McCain. But in the end all polititions are the same, they all make promises and once elected don't follow through on the promises. You know that as well as I do, I'm sure!!!!!

  • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:41:32 PM

    Comment: There that's for citron:

    Bush book: Chapter -10-Shell plans to move the SIDEWINDER to the Persian Gulf where Seacat-Zapata, our Persian Gulf affiliate, will operate the SIDEWINDER with another Shell ...
    www.tarpley.net/bush10.htm - 127k - Cached - Similar pages

    Zapata Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaBy 1964, Zapata Off-Shore had a number of subsidiaries, including: Seacat-Zapata Offshore Company (Persian Gulf), Zapata de Mexico, Zapata International ...
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Oil - 81k - Cached - Similar pages

    George Bush: The Life of a Lone Star Yankee - Google Books Resultby Herbert S. Parmet - 2000 - Biography & Autobiography - 585 pages
    Seacat Zapata, which was formed in 1961 to do contract drilling in the Persian Gulf for the Kuwait Shell Petroleum Development Company, was chartered in ...
    books.google.com/books?isbn=0765807300...

    Bush book: Chapter -8-At this time, Mr. Mandel found, Zapata Offshore owned 50% of Seacat-Zapata Offshore Compnay, which operated the drilling rig NOLA III in the Persian Gulf. ...
    www.kmf.org/williams/bushbook/bush8.html - 64k - Cached - Similar pages

    httpZapata Offshore filings with the SEC in Washington for the year ... 1964, which showed Zapata Offshore owned 50% of Seacat-Zapata Offshore Company, ...
    www.newsmakingnews.com/lindaminor/lm3,19,02harvardtoenron,pt1.htm - 41k - Cached - Similar pages

    Spitire InfoTech - Dave Emory - For The Record #445 - The Bush ...He added that ???the Zapata-Permargo deal also caught the attention of Allen ... from Zapata International, Seacat Zapata, and Zapata de Mexico to the Zapata ...
    spitfirelist.com/f445.html - 70k - Cached - Similar pages

    Tech-Sym Corporation -- Company History... Engineers & Fabricators, Inc.; Carry Machine Supply, Inc.; Metric Systems, Inc.; and Seacat-Zapata Off-Shore Company, a gas and oil exploration firm. ...
    www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/TechSym-Corporation-Company-History.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

    Cronies: oil, the Bushes, and the rise of Texas, America's superstate - Google Books Resultby Robert Bryce - 2004 - History - 327 pages
    The two men had a joint venture in the offshore drilling business, known as Seacat-Zapata Off-Shore. And that deal led to Bush's first exposure to the ...
    books.google.com/books?isbn=1586483374...

    Rigorous Intuition: "My God - they killed him!"Murdock became a director of Zapata in December 1979, while Winokur was a ... which showed Zapata Offshore owned 50% of Seacat-Zapata Offshore Company, ...
    rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-god-they-killed-him.html - 977k - Cached - Similar pages

    Obama criticizes McCain, Bush on appeasement talk | Newsweek News ...May 16, 2008 ... as VP...probably won't be able to se that, it's under "excutive privilidge". mmmkay, clear enough for ya? ever heard of Sea-Cat Zapata? ...
    www.newsweek.com/id/137102/output/comments - 435k - Cached - Similar pages

    • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 6:02:07 PM

      Comment: Thank you for the information. This does explain alot!!!

  • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:39:49 PM

    Comment: Bin Laden Ties"Bush Administration Hampered FBI Investigation into Bin Laden Family Before 9/11," [LINK], they announced, using scattered news reports and former FBI ...
    tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html - 87k - Cached - Similar pages

    Osama bin Laden's Bush Family Business ConnectionsThere are direct historical links between Osama bin Laden's business interests and those of the Bush family. On September 15 I received the following ...
    www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html - 52k - Cached - Similar pages

    Bush's Former Oil Company Linked To bin Laden FamilyDoing business with the bin Laden empire, therefore, is only the latest extension of the Bush family's financial ties to unsavory individuals and ...
    www.rense.com/general14/bushsformer.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

    Bush MoneyPart One: "Hike in US defence spending to benefit Osama's family": Bin Laden-Bush business connection seen through Carlyle Group ...
    www.prisonplanet.com/the_bush_bin_laden_money_connection.htm - 47k - Cached - Similar pages

    Bin Laden's Family Link to BushBin Laden's family link to Bush by PETER ALLEN, Daily Mail Original Link: http://adserver.ukplus.co.uk/html.ng/size=1x1&site=femail&pos=101& ...
    www.prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_family_link_to_bush.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
    More results from www.prisonplanet.com »

    BUSHLADENA U.S. inquiry into bin Laden family business dealings could brush against some big names associated with the U.S. government. Former President Bush said ...
    www.emperors-clothes.com/news/bushladen.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

    Conspiracy Theories: The fifth estate delves into the labyrinthine ...In the course of separating fact from fiction, Bob delves into the labyrinthine and surprising ties between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. ...
    www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5103.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

    The Bushes And The Bin LadensThat's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing. ...
    www.bushwatch.com/binladens.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

  • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 4:47:46 PM

    Comment: I thought I'd bring this conversation up here forsome feed back ;) and so Gusto mayabe will respond...

    Posted By: GustoMaybe @ 06/16/2008 21:29:35
    Comment: So Bush raised gas prices? HDavidson you are completely ignorant and uninformed.

    Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 14:05:58
    Comment: Well let's see, am I uninformed?
    Q: Which 2 American Preisdents have DEEP ties with the Bin Laden Group in Saudi, The RICHEST OIL FAMILY IN SAUDI?
    A: The Bushes and for over 30yrs

    Q: Who's family own OIL RIGS off the cost of Kuwait?
    A: The Bushes, it's called "SEACAT ZAPATA the reason for the first Gulf War.

    Q: As an OIL owning Family, who stands to make BILLIONS when the price of oil goes up?
    A: The Bushes...duh

    Q: Is Gusto a tool..."
    A: Maybe ;)

    Get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, gas has gone up over 3$ per gal and thte cost of oil for 60$ a barrel to what ever it was 3 seconds ago. Not while the "Evil" Bill Clinton was in office, only since the Bin Laden buddy has been in there and it is suposed to reach 5$ by July.

    Next...

    • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 5:05:15 PM

      Comment: I know the Bush family isin oil but I never heard what is in your comment: Which 2 American Preisdents have DEEP ties with the Bin Laden Group in Saudi, The RICHEST OIL FAMILY IN SAUDI?
      A: The Bushes and for over 30yrs
      Could you tell me where I could get more information on this? Thank you in advance

      • Posted By: raddave @ 06/18/2008 1:05:30 AM

        Comment: The Bin Laden Group is a construction company, not an Oil company. the richest oil family in Saudi Arabia is the Saudi royal family.

        • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 5:58:41 AM

          Comment: my bad, it wasn't the oil there, it just why Osama Bin Laden is still alive ;) whoops

      • Posted By: marksgershenson @ 06/17/2008 11:22:09 PM

        Comment: See Farenheit 911 it is touched on in the documentary

      • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:33:55 PM

        Comment: Look it up sweetie ;)

        • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 5:36:54 PM

          Comment: I was wondering if you could tell me where I can find this information!!

          • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:43:05 PM

            Comment: There ya go, easy enough...

    • Posted By: olgrumpyman @ 06/17/2008 5:01:10 PM

      Comment: How does this have anything to do with the article. I am gettign very tired of every blog I read quickly denigrating into a name calling Bush bash. Please try to find another blog if you don't want to discuss what this blog is discussing, health care and "savings" by going paperless.

      • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:35:28 PM

        Comment: This actually started in a health care blogg below, then someone treid to give Bush a "shout out". and here you go ;) so yeah GET OVER IT!

      • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 5:12:31 PM

        Comment: I really don't see how this will change health care much at all!!! I think Obama should switch to Clinton health care plan so every american could have health care. Now that would be a solution!!!

        • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/17/2008 5:37:49 PM

          Comment: Yes becuase issuing fines to people who are already struggling with gas prices, mortgages, food, and yes health care is a GREAT Idea. If Hillary said "feed the starving sh!t sandwiches, there must be SOME nutrition there." would you support that too, just because Hillary said it?

          • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 8:41:13 PM

            Comment: Polititions make all kinds of promises to get elected and then once they get elected nothing happens!!!! Obama if elected will forget all his promises just like the rest of them

            • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/17/2008 9:08:25 PM

              Comment: Does this mean that you believe McCain would do the same?

              • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 11:29:25 PM

                Comment: In all honesty yes I think Obama and McCain are both polititions and make all kinds of promises to get elected. But they usualy forget once elected. It's the election gave. I don't mean anything bad about this but the one thing Rev. Wright said that is really really true is when he said Obama talks like a politition and says what polititions have to say to get elected. All candidates do the same thing!!! I do think that maybe just maybe Hillary might have been different because she would have had to prove a women can run this country as well or better than any man. But I guess we will never find out about that either since she is out of this election.

                • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 3:57:48 AM

                  Comment: Yeah because that's exactly what Obama has come across as, "more of the same"...lol

                  Funny how you, in one breath, claim he has "NO" experience (and therefore no bad habbits), and then in the next he is EQUAL TO ALL OHTERS? Make upi your mind flip floppers ;)
                  \
                  Oh and "BALCK MAN" has NOTHING to "PROVE" I would like to address your "logic", but like the few remaining blinded by the fem Hillerites, you have no logic ;)

                  • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/18/2008 1:31:17 PM

                    Comment: HDavidson: Yes Obama has come across as more of the same, even worse, he was elected Senator in Illinois and has done nothing since elected except run for president. Even his 20 year Rev. and Mentor Said he talks like a politition and says what politions say. Obama has no experience thats right, and he talks like all polititions do. Thats right too !!! I am not the one that is flip flopping,I am saying it like it is, all polititions promise everything and once elected hardly ever follow through. I'm sure you know this is true you don't sound like a young kid who knows nothing. You have been around long enough to have seen plenty of polititions elected and then see none of the change they talked about before happen. I am not the one who said black man ,you did. Since he has done nothing as senator what makes you think he would do anything as president!!!!!!!! I do have logic it's just different than yours. It would be really boring if we all thought the same, wouldn't it, who could you dissagree with? This election is just like the election 4 years ago Bush and Kerry the only funny thing about that election was Jib Jab put out a funny video about them both that pretty much discribed them both as idiots and it gave people something to laugh about. In that election it came down to choose between the lessor of 2 evils and this election is the same. 2 candidates McCain and Obama I will again have to choose between the lessor of 2 evils and because of all Of Obama's friends like Rev. Wright, Farrahkan, Pfleger, Rezko, Ayers, and all the rest I choose to vote McCain. But in the end all polititions are the same, they all make promises and once elected don't follow through on the promises. You know that as well as I do, I'm sure!!!!!

  • Posted By: olgrumpyman @ 06/17/2008 4:44:14 PM

    Comment: I am glad they brought up the fact that the system does not work perfectly. As an employee of a hospital system that is switching to a paperless system, I see the problems every day. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to perfect the software and its ability to communicate with other systems. It should also be pointed out that ALL of the additional privately owned ancillary medical professions (O.T's, P.T.'s, Orthotists, Prosthetists, Nursing homes, etc) will need to be part of this as well, not just physicians, pharmacies and
    hospitals. Most of these private facilities are small and may not be able to afford the burden of paperless software systems.

  • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 06/17/2008 2:28:09 PM

    Comment: Electronic records are only a small part of the system, and if we had 100% electronic records tomorrow, our health care system would still be broken. As long as the surgeons, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and medical device makers are calling the shots, health care will continue to be sick care, and unaffordable for most.

    Until we uncouple health care from employment, until we have a non-profit health care system that focuses on HEALTH, not MONEY, until we switch the place of care to the home, workplace and schools and remove it from offices, clinics and hospitals, and until we make prevention instead of treatment the focus, we will continue to get sicker, fatter and poorer. All the electronic records in the world won't make a bit of difference.

    None of the candidates - not Obama, not Clinton or Edwards, and certainly not McCain, understand how to fix our health care system, or if they do, are too chicken to say so.

    Socialized medicine is the only way to help people get healthy and stay healthy - the PROFIT must go.

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 9:41:04 AM

      Comment: mac, any ideas how to make it non profit? As lay people, we maybe to brainstorm and come up with a plan. 'The government appears to not have a workable one. Why should we just sit and complain? What example are there of non profit organizations. Those that are seems to be able to stay on top. Is the CFC a not profit organization? Maybe someone needs to talk to some of the nonprofit organization and see how they operate. It is not people will work for free. They still will get paid.

  • Posted By: irwind @ 06/17/2008 12:52:55 PM

    Comment: The VA has electronic records already. Why can't this hodgepodge of a private system get it right? The whole 'civilized' world has a commendable system, while we have the mose expensive one with the worst service. There's just no political will here, especially with the Republicans. If we can muster the resources and will to fight these damn wars, but not to help the people you start to wonder. FDR did it, and hopefully the Dems this time will do something too. It's long overdue! Tax credits alone (the Repubs' idea) is a joke, a band-aid.

    • Posted By: stematwork @ 06/18/2008 3:17:53 PM

      Comment: alright, i'm officialy tired of the misinformation. the "civilized" world wants to get it's health care here. the best doctors in the world want to practice here. go to a hospital in europe: it's like a walmart with people milling about waiting for their "free" check up. peeps with $ go to private hospitals in europe because THATS where the good doctors are. what incentive does a doctor have to be the best he/she can be if they get paid the same government wage regardless?

      in addition, go to an emergency room anywhere in america and you will find all the folks without healthcare being treated (at a discounted rate!). it's a myth to suggest that people without health insurance cannot get treatment.

  • Posted By: fog80 @ 06/17/2008 12:32:40 PM

    Comment: i dont understand why this article is sort of "accusing" of obama of misleading. someone has to set the wheels in motion and set up an environment to make the transfer to electronic records possible.

    nothing happens overnight, and i applaud obama for taking this by the horns and making it the cornerstone of his candidacy.

    • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 3:07:55 PM

      Comment: Clinton's health care plan would be much better, even Mrs. Edwards said that!!!

  • Posted By: paulte @ 06/17/2008 11:50:30 AM

    Comment: Like duh, why aren't medical records already electronic? There is no need to revamp the whole system. Most people are satisfied with the health care system as it is. There will always be a group of people which will need govt help and won't be able to pay it back. That's the safety net.

    You can't force people to buy health insurance in a free society but you can penalize those who end up getting government help when they could have afforded health insurance. It's called the IRS. Anyone who ever gets govt help for medical services will never receive a tax refund until they pay back every cent.

    As far as the working poor, the govt could offer subsidized health insurance to them.

    So you have the four groups:

    1) people currently covered by health insurance who need no govt assistance

    2) people who could afford health insurance but don't buy it who would be required to pay back any govt assistance they receive through the IRS

    3) the working poor who will be able to get govt subsidized health insurance

    4) the poor who will be covered by a safety net

    The money the govt pays for the safety net and the subsidized part of the working poor insurance is the total the govt should have to spend.

  • Posted By: Obama Drama @ 06/17/2008 11:29:57 AM

    Comment: Obama has said many changes since he got the nomination. It is like he tricked people into voting for him on these issues and promises and now he is saying totally dif promises. Iraq being one major- now he says 16 months at least before he will get out- what is that about? His hiring of Hillary's ex campain manger that Patty Solis Doyles? Seriously? What's up with that? She was fired for srewing Hillary - was that a plan with Patty and Obama? I think more than a news plimp is in needed here.

  • Posted By: summer1216 @ 06/17/2008 11:24:42 AM

    Comment: It is clear that we can have a health-care system that covers everyone and is billed efficiently for less money that we spend today. (see "Healthcare, Guaranteed: A Simple, Secure Solution for America" by Ezekiel Emanuel.) However, I can see various possible reasons for not presenting an idea this new in the middle of a campaign. Obama has to get elected first before he can bring about the changes he promises to make.

    • Posted By: citron16 @ 06/17/2008 11:33:37 AM

      Comment: Polititions make all kinds of promises to get elected and then once they get elected nothing happens!!!! Obama if elected will forget all his promises just like the rest of them.

  • Posted By: amendment2man @ 06/17/2008 10:48:05 AM

    Comment: I love the allegorical and symbolic way that the obama supporters express themselves. it accurately reflects their candidates orientation as he also speaks in allegorical generalities.

    you cannot get past the fact that obama is of a very Left Liberal philosophy. Most of America is moderate right leaning. He tries to temper his true self(super liberal) to appeal to the majority yet when they do not fall in line then they are labled as "bitter" and "clinging to the wrong issues". well my friend these issues define a candidate and are factors which will be deciding points for those voters. obama is saying that things shich are important to these people shouldnt be??!! this means that he really has no emphaty to others who do not see it his way. I am afraid that this is not the mechanism on which democracy is built.

    If 75% of the people care about these issues then who is he to discount their desire for a matched government. super liberals will NEVER appeal to the right of middle majority. The press and his supporters try to deflect this by making it a race issue instead of the true issues which exist. Its not about race it is about; Issues, philosophies as well as obama's glaring lack of presence and experience on the world stage as well as his voting records which are party line all the way(extreme left Liberal).

    its not race its experience. the voters are not bitter just oriented diffrently. rhetoric can only go so far before concrete action is needed to back it up. obama is not prepared nor does he have the substance to be President of the US.

  • Posted By: willnotvoteobama @ 06/17/2008 10:37:09 AM

    Comment: Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn???t a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.

    ???Well, look, if that???s the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now ??? where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife ??? which we haven???t done,??? Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

    ???We would be deploying unilaterally and occupying the Sudan, which we haven???t done. Those of us who care about Darfur don???t think it would be a good idea,??? he said.

    Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois, said it???s likely there would be increased bloodshed if U.S. forces left Iraq.

    ???Nobody is proposing we leave precipitously. There are still going to be U.S. forces in the region that could intercede, with an international force, on an emergency basis,??? Obama said between stops on the first of two days scheduled on the New Hampshire campaign trail. ???There???s no doubt there are risks of increased bloodshed in Iraq without a continuing U.S. presence there.???

    The greater risk is staying in Iraq, Obama said.

    ???It is my assessment that those risks are even greater if we continue to occupy Iraq and serve as a magnet for not only terrorist activity but also irresponsible behavior by Iraqi factions,??? he said.

    So people who really care about Darfur are happy to let the Arab genocide against Black Africans continue, because deploying troops to crush the racist jihadi insurgency isn???t a ???good idea???? Doesn???t that strike anyone as a disgustingly amoral stance?

    And since when is genocide considered ???irresponsible behavior??? as opposed to unmitigated evil?

    Obama just exposed himself as either completely shallow and naive, or some sort of emotionless leftbot.


    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 10:12:30 AM

      Comment: I think it is amoral to promise families that have members serving in iraq that has soon as you are elected you would bring them home and renege on it. That is what obama has done. He won million of vote just on his promise to bring the troops home as soon as he is elected. He is a flip flopper. He wiggles and waddles all the time on the issues. Don't get me wrong I believe the war should be over and the troops come home. I have a niece that has been over there three times and is heading back again. Now he is talking a 16 months departure and leaving a contingence behind. What is that all about? In that instance he would have achieved nothing because he would leave the door open for those left behind (not matter how small a conitgence) to participate in any iscalation in the area and more than likely a rebuild up of troops. You know that mess over there is not going away any time soon. It is just plain double talk and plain wrong. He needs to stand by his original committment to end the war and bring the troops home immediately. The little flip flopper. Am I the only one that see this and feels this way?

    • Posted By: summer1216 @ 06/17/2008 11:14:23 AM

      Comment: I'n not arguing the larger question of whether or not to stay in Iraq here. But the comment about preventing a potential genocide by continuing to keep our troops there surprised me. We haven't used "our troops" to do ANYTHING about any number of recent unbearably brutal genocides around the world. Although it's undoubtedly an over-simplicfiation, the most common comment I hear is, "They have no oil, so we have no national interest there." In other words, that genocide doesn't count. Whatever the reasons, we are not exactly pure in our fight against unmitigated evil.

    • Posted By: amendment2man @ 06/17/2008 10:55:55 AM

      Comment: He is truly contradictory! he spins 180 Degrees trying to modify his previously stated naive stands on these issues. He speaks without really weighing his statements. he can always say he "misspoke". try telling that one to the IRS. I "misspoke" about that under the table payment. dont think they accept that excuse , why should we?

      I hope that people can see through this rhetoric and see the shallow naive little guy which is barak hussein obama.

  • Posted By: Jack999 @ 06/17/2008 10:22:10 AM

    Comment: Obama understand the roots of the Evils Policy,his very practical solutions and step of the Future of America in long run.You're Smart thinker Obama.Yes Our Country are now being diagnoised with CANCER.We need a smart "Research Team" to eliminate this Problems at its root cause to tackle its existence for ever just not a loser temporary solution.

  • Posted By: amendment2man @ 06/17/2008 10:20:15 AM

    Comment: obviously obama is embellishing and promising things that he cannot deliver. His empty promises and rhetoric can be barely differentiated from Clinton. Mccain demonstrates better judgement due to his presence over 25 years in gov't. Mccain knows the process in implementing policy and it is not so simple as a wave of the hand as obama has promised.

    He really appeals to the idealistic non experienced segment of the population who really don't have an understanding of the legislative process. I really think these people think that the President is a dictator who waves his hand and makes it so.

    look at the clintons promises in the 90's. we were supposed to have this health care thing done by now! what happened? NOTHING. their campaign theme was also '"change"; The only thing bill changed was the reputation of the US from tough and unbeatable to cowardly and afraid.

    obama is a real SALESMAN. Tell you what you want hear, after you buy its too late.

    vote John Mccain

    HE REALLY DOES SUCK LESS

  • Posted By: Micky Marsh @ 06/17/2008 9:51:13 AM

    Comment: You mean people will be losing jobs to computer, ok as long as you compensate those families who have lost their job because of modern technology

  • Posted By: rboos @ 06/17/2008 9:37:28 AM

    Comment: melodyk1
    "I will vote against Obama. Four years of McCain is really not that bad then voting for an empty suit."

    If you really think that voting for McCain is the answer to Hilary LOSING then you must not have ever been a HIlary supporter. Look at the policies, look at the history. McCain has become the opposite of what he has faught for the last 20 + yrs. Clinton and Obama are almost the same when it comes to what changes they want to see in this country. How anyone who Supports Hilary could all of a sudden change their beliefs based on the simple facts that she lost is beyond my understanding. It was a fair primary and she lost. In a game of sport if you win when the time runs out your opponent shakes your hand. Well, it would be nice if you would shake the hands of Barack's supporters and help us beat John McCain.

    He is wrong for America Post George Bush. Obama's suit might not be as old as John McCains or HIlary's, but it sure is fresh and ready to take on tuff challenges full steam.

    Lets win this together Friend.

    Democrats in 09!!

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 10:31:04 AM

      Comment: rboo, obama is a flip flopper. Where as his policies are similiar to hillary, if elected, by the time he gets to the white, no telling what his policies may be. I dislike the charasterices of obama and don't trust him. He tells you what ever he thinks you want to hear to get your vote.

    • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:00:51 AM

      Comment: Bet the families of 4500 DEAD Americans might disagree, you dipsh!t! Oh yeah and I'm sure tha families of 75,000 more who would die if MCCAIN had his way might feel differently also, just a thought....but you stick with your 13% of the population.

  • Posted By: DeborahJ @ 06/17/2008 9:31:28 AM

    Comment: 1 - It is extremely significant that O'Bama recognizes the need for us to focus on PREVENTING disease just as much, if not more, than just treating disease. I have used Homeopathic medicineexercise, and a good diet to keep myself healthy for the last 13 years...no antibiotics! The students I teach are sick all of the time and can't learn because of it.

    2. I don't worry about when Obama's changes to the health care system fully take effect. What's important is that someone starts to make smart changes to the miserable system we have today. It will be great to save money, but it will be even better to save lives. How can anyone possibly criticize Obama when McCain only offers more of the same screwed-up approach we've suffered under Bush for almost 8 years? Quit your whining!

    3. Anyone who really thinks that "four years of McCain is really not that bad then [than] voting for an empty suit [I guess she means Obama]" is "off their rocker" "not dealing with a full deck," "doesn't have both oars in the water"... well, you get my drift... It's okay to be angry/disappointed that Hillary lost, but it's NOT okay to be stupid.

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 10:45:04 AM

      Comment: Deborah, you ever worked for the federal government. You really need to participate and see how it operate. Here is how it work, someone (discussing) comes up with the newest of the brightest idea about a change. The government buys into it and put all your money and manpower into making these changes and a short while later somebody comes back and changes it back to the original or comes up with another bright idea (disgusting) to misabuse your money. Most of the times the changes are superficial and serves the purpose of someones personal agenda. Been there, done that. If I get you right, you want to put your hard earn money again, toward a plan that you feel is better than nothing. Go figure. Well, take my word, the government is very good at taking your money and you know the return you usually get.

  • Posted By: melodyk1 @ 06/17/2008 9:10:25 AM

    Comment: he could say anything, flip flop all day long and it would still be okay with the Obama "blind ones". As stil a Hillary supporter who will not vote for a loser again in the general. I am now an ind not a dem as of Wed ater he said he was the winner. I will vote against Obama. Four years of McCain is really not that bad then voting for an empty suit.

    • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:02:38 AM

      Comment: Bet the families of 4500 DEAD Americans might disagree, you dipsh!t! Oh yeah and I'm sure tha families of 75,000 more who would die if MCCAIN had his way might feel differently also, just a thought....but you stick with your 13% of the population.

  • Posted By: Karenn1 @ 06/17/2008 8:58:51 AM

    Comment: It is the right direction, and change can happen if you don't listen to the whiners. The I told it can't be done,the ones who live their lifes by Bushs Red light,yellow light policy.Thats a dogs life.

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 10:57:27 AM

      Comment: karen, there those who live their life on the edge. They make decisions on a whim. Among others, there are those who makes decision on rational, thought provoking, reasoning, analytical decisions. That is not living a dog life. It is just using great skills to come up with solutions and rational to as much as possible guarantee returns on your resources.

  • Posted By: Smuhamm @ 06/17/2008 8:08:10 AM

    Comment: To gommy goomy How pessimistic are you? How negative about anything that is possible are you? If all of us get involved the above article is possible. We are a creative people God made it that way but many of us are stuck on critizing instead of rolling up our sleeves and MAKING things work by using the creative brain juices that he gave us and the ability to work as a team. Just wondering have you ever volunteered to help someones campaign. Or did you side on the side lines as a referee? I'd rather try anything at this point to get us out of this health care mess.

  • Posted By: gommy goomy @ 06/17/2008 7:51:57 AM

    Comment: This is a guy who belongs to a party that can't run their primaries right-(see Michigam and Florida)-and who belongs to an organization-(Senate)-that can't even run their own restaurant. And you think that this hopelessly in over his head, empty suit, can run your health system? How STUPID are you people?

    • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:05:24 AM

      Comment: Not quite "stupid" enough to buy your BS, lol, come on out, it's not that there is an "empty suit" it 's that YOU refuse to see BLACK, right ;)

      • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/18/2008 10:51:07 AM

        Comment: Who are you?

    • Posted By: summer1216 @ 06/17/2008 11:20:02 AM

      Comment: Look at our health-care system now. Third-rate and beaten in quality by half the countries in the world. And they do it at a fraction of our costs. Do you think the people who are running it today are doing even as well as Obama would? I don't.

      • Posted By: loriw @ 06/22/2008 7:58:08 PM

        Comment: Have you or a close personal relative of yours ever been treated in a hospital outside of the US? Do you speak from experience? I'd about bet not. Our health care is top notch compared to just about any other country, Canadians wait a long time for "free" care. England's free care is poor quality compared to ours.
        You want to see Third Rate medicine go to third world countries and you know what I bet there are US medical personnel there, volunteering their time and supplies toprovide some level of care. No we are not third rate by any stretch.

        • Posted By: AmeriKhan Lobo @ 06/24/2008 3:36:45 PM

          Comment: I have a son who was born in Costa Rica. I paid $1000 for a private hospital which was as clean and secure as any hospital I've been to in the US. We had a private room with a futon bed and a large LCD screen TV. I was able to be right next to my wife, I was the fist to hold my son and I cut the "cord" on both ends. 1 weak later we found out that my son had pulmonary valve stenosis( an almost closed valve in his heart. We took him to the Children's Hospital which is rated the 2nd best hospital for children in all of Latin America. The operation and hospital stay would have cost me at least $30,000 in the US but I didn't have to pay a dime because my son was a Costa Rican by birth.
          My son's surgery couldn't have gone any better than it did and he is now in perfect health.

          The World Health Organization ranks the US health system at #37. Costa Rica is one higher at #36. Saudi Arabia is # 26. Singapore is #6 and France is #1. I kniw you would like to believe the US is #1 but it's just not so.

          • Posted By: AmeriKhan Lobo @ 06/24/2008 3:45:57 PM

            Comment: I would've paid close to $10,000 in the US for my son's birth at a hospital with equal care.

  • Posted By: unitedwestand03 @ 06/17/2008 7:47:50 AM

    Comment: raddave.....are you honestly in the military cause if you were you would probably know about a 201 File...cause I'm pretty sure that isn't completely electronic...I still think you carry that as your personnel records because it's paper.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 06/17/2008 11:14:07 AM

      Comment: Actually the 201 file has pretty much gone away. The only things in it now are items that have to have a signature on it for legal purporses, such as SGLI forms and emergency notification records. Every other item in our records is electronic. Even evaluation reports are prepared, signed and submitted electronically.

      • Posted By: unitedwestand03 @ 06/17/2008 11:59:07 AM

        Comment: Then why do you still carry the 201 to SRP or any form of mobilization. Why does it contain all the information about your entire medical life in the army.

        • Posted By: raddave @ 06/17/2008 2:53:56 PM

          Comment: And since you said "mobilization" I assume you either were or are a reservist?

        • Posted By: raddave @ 06/17/2008 2:46:12 PM

          Comment: Are you talking about medical records?

  • Posted By: phillydog @ 06/17/2008 3:26:24 AM

    Comment: We do not know if his plan will work in the stated time especially since Doctors, major pharmaceutical firms and journalist who maintain the status quo along with a great many political figures, will stand in the way of change. Many of Obamas' policies will have to be hard fought, because many want things to stay the same. We need to purge the systems of these antiquated Neanderthals before change can come about.

  • Posted By: raddave @ 06/17/2008 1:36:48 AM

    Comment: I am in the military and we have had electronic health records for a couple of years now. It amazes me that the military is actually way ahead of the civilian sector in this. Not only are our medical records electronic, but virtually all of our records are digital now.

    Obama's plan might not save as much money as quickly as he predicts, but it is still better than what McCain proposes, which is a status quo. He says his plan will offer the public choices. I only see the choices that he offers to alot of Americans is the choice to have health care or to support your family. Health care costs are not going to come down until most of America has health insurance.

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/17/2008 1:19:54 AM

    Comment: later all

  • Posted By: Thevail @ 06/17/2008 1:11:35 AM

    Comment: I have to say, I'm an Obama supporter, and even I find that he seems to have overstated this bit.

    On the other hand McCain's plan basically deregulates health insurance so that providers can move to states with lower regulation and not have to follow the stricter regulations of states like New York.

    First things to go:

    Insuring anyone with a prior condition,sorry epileptics, diabetics, and children born with health problems.

    Regulations that make it illegal to deny necessary medical care, by allowing the insurance company not your doctor to decide what falls under the category of "necessary".

    Perscription coverage.

    And since McCain's plan involves not requiring employers to provide insurance...guess how many of us will still have it? Not too many once it occurs to the companies that they are not required to give you a raise to make up for cancelling your insurance benefit. So NOT PAYING for your insurance is pure profit for them.

    There are currently about 47 million uninsured Americans. Under McCain's plan that number would likely double.

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/17/2008 1:18:28 AM

      Comment: your on the right track but kids will always be protected healthwise, if not federaly, then the state will do the job, but only kids, not adults. so you got that right, and it will triple!!! As he kills Veterans healthcare benifits except to those he deems patriotic?

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/17/2008 12:24:59 AM

    Comment: I guess these independent experts never had to fill out all the peperwork, with every doctor who touchs you, the hospitlal, and your next doctor, specialist! Every time, fill out the same paperwork, with the same records, takes tons of time!! If eletronic you see a doctor, no paperwork, specialist allready knows why your comming! Saves time, time is money! Welcome to America, but the EXPERTS most likely skipped the tons of paperwork you need to fill out, every time, every doctor, every visit! They don't do this, they are after EXPERTS?

    • Posted By: Johnny at Work @ 06/17/2008 1:05:31 AM

      Comment: What the experts are saying is that it will save money, but the savings will not occur overnight. ..... Even if every doctor, clinic and hospital started using a global electronic system that was compatible with every other doctor, clinic and hospital system tomorrow, it would still take time to get every file for every patient linked.... and, it would take more time to input every record for every patient that is stored somewhere else. More likely, it will only effect records starting the date the system becomes effective. Additional work to input existing records takes time and money, that has not been put into the equation. That is why the full savings in 2019 is realistic. ............... When the PC age began in the mid 80's, it had a promise of increasing productivity, which would pay for the cost of implementation and training. That productivity savings was not fully realized for about 10 years. PC's have greatly increased productivity, but the benefit to the bottom line took longer to occur. ............... Obots have bought into the belief that O'boy will wave his arms on his inaugeration and make his words an instant reality. Truth is, the Obots need to be brought back down to reality. .............. No one knows what O'boy will do if elected anyway, not even the O'boy himself. He has been all over the map on every issue and flip flops faster than the pancakes at a church fund raiser. ....... O'boy will end up doing whatever his handlers and corporate sponsors tell him to do, and hell sweet talk it to you from a teleprompter. ............ Not to worry though, there's no way he'll be elected.

      • Posted By: raddave @ 06/17/2008 1:46:32 AM

        Comment: It is funny that you call Obama "O'boy" it kind of has raciast connotations.

        • Posted By: Smuhamm @ 06/17/2008 8:16:18 AM

          Comment: Well, waving the arms are a way of making things happening, atleast he is lifting up his arms to try and do something. Oh, and actually you do not know what you are going to do tomorrow either, but nothing beats a failure but a try. Vs the current administration crawling year by year to do the same o thing. I'll take the sweet talk anyday if it CHANGES what we have now. Don't think that I will not hold the sweet talker accountable.

        • Posted By: Johnny at Work @ 06/17/2008 3:42:35 AM

          Comment: Bart Simpson uses the suffix "boy" for everyone that does something stupid, especially Homer. No body ever calls Bart a racist. ........ funny? Yes, it's funny that you can pull a racist card out of that. You are either a magician, or just stupid.

          • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:11:17 AM

            Comment: Well, the funny thing is...you f@#KING HICK, it is racist!!!...DOH!

      • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/17/2008 1:13:02 AM

        Comment: Everyone gotta have a dream.

  • Posted By: Johnny at Work @ 06/16/2008 11:47:30 PM

    Comment: Obama's HOPE and CHANGE is he HOPES no one notices as he CHANGES his position on every issue.

    • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:13:02 AM

      Comment: Oh I get it you don't know who is who, got to youTube and search McCain V. McCain, you'll see the position changes there, DOH!

  • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 06/16/2008 11:47:00 PM

    Comment: Many in Obama's camp are parading Canada's "National" healthcare - and what the extolling virtues of that plan are - after all - they don't pay anything for a heart transplant or any other service. Well, my scholarly Obamites - let's compare Canada's tax rate and health premiums with the US (using my income/taxes etc)

    NOTE: Please see end of post for source research links.


    In the US (2007 rates):
    Total Income tax on household - $21,000
    Medical Insurance (Family of 4) - $3,600
    RX Drugs - $900 (Thyroid disease - mine)
    Office visits - $100 (10 /year - family of 4 for 2007)
    Total Medical Expense + Taxes 2007 - $25,600

    In Canada 2007 rates:
    Total Income tax on household - $$40,894
    Medical Insurance to cover additional expense (Family of 4 )- $3,600
    (increased care provided to = what I have now)
    RX Drugs - $720 (Thyroid disease - mine)
    Office visits - $140 (10 /year - family of 4 for 2007)
    Total Medical Expense + Taxes 2007 - $45,354

    Difference in cost:
    Canada: $45,354
    US: $25,600
    ______________
    $19,754 MORE in my pocket in the current US System.

    DO I REALLY need to say more?????

    SOURCE -
    Canadian Info: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html
    http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/13/1906
    US Info: My 2007 tax return

    Do you still think Obama's "National Healthcare" is such a great plan? We all know Washington gets very gluttonous with new programs and fees so the cost will likely be more than this. Personally, I prefer to keep the almost $20K in my pocket.....

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/17/2008 12:02:37 AM

      Comment: you forgot to tally the bankrupcies and forclosures as taxes are not paid on empty homes. Run national through workmans comp sources state by state. the system is allready in place, billing,doctors, and hospitals. no muss, no fuss about paperwork,this would relieve, employers only paying primiums, to paying no primiuns at all. so now the disabled can work, as employers will not be over billed, as we are concidered high risk employees, and no employer will pay comp, more than you make. there is a way it just needs to be seen, and linked, with some awasome security in place, i would hope.!

      • Posted By: loriw @ 06/22/2008 8:08:16 PM

        Comment: Actually taxes are still paid on forclosures, the bank or mortage holder who repo's the home must continue to pay the taxes until they sell the forclosed home.

      • Posted By: e.nigma57 @ 06/17/2008 3:21:16 PM

        Comment:
        Please explain your numbers. First, without providing and actual income amount (you know, what you actually made!), your numbers and assertion have no validity because they can't be verified. Second, the highest rate in Canada is only for those making over $123,000 which only represents about 5% of Americans. Also, you do realize those are their complete tax rates and not just for healthcare?

        From your second linked article:
        "The premium rises from zero for those whose taxable income is less than $20 000 to $900 for those whose income is over $200 000. Overall, it will raise $2.4 billion in revenue, about 8% of annual public health care spending in Ontario."

        In the United States, only about 2% of the people make over $200,000/year, and half make less than $48,000/yr., (IRS figures). Considering there is no premium for those making less than $20,000/yr. (and don't forget, those are Canadian dollars which are worth more than US dollars), very few people in the US would have to pay a very large premium if at all.

        At any rate, your numbers really make no sense without providing some kind of initial income level.

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/16/2008 11:30:41 PM

    Comment: Loriw
    what is this word in your post "bariatric" i don't know if its misspelled, or im unaware, which is far more likely, but what is it, or what does it mean, in contex of your post please.

  • Posted By: jrider1019 @ 06/16/2008 10:38:35 PM

    Comment: I'm sure this article will wind up on Fight the Smears, Obama seems to be fighting the truth on this one. A great fact based debunk site is despitethesmears.com .

  • Posted By: brian.reach @ 06/16/2008 9:59:44 PM

    Comment: I don't think Obama will have to use the age case against McCain - have you seen/heard McCain? I really think he's senile...

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/16/2008 10:21:13 PM

      Comment: obama already have the race and sex issues to deal. You think he really want to add age too? I realize he has the youth on his side that seem to help tip the scale and gave him a majority. Stacked against racism, sexism, and ageism, the scale may tip the other way. Woe, to long for age and along with that wisdom! Heck, what do I know. I'm elderly, female and an AA.

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/16/2008 10:05:46 PM

      Comment: brian, Why bother to beat a man when he is down? If that is the case, why not just leave the age thing alone?

      • Posted By: HDavidson @ 06/18/2008 4:24:31 AM

        Comment: Awe yeah have a heart, so McCain does'nt have a heart attack, besides it's his breath that has become the issue, since he can't stop sticking his foot in his mouth his breath is terrible...

  • Posted By: sedonakaren @ 06/16/2008 9:46:12 PM

    Comment: I get so angry because all the criticism that people do only prolongs our INACTION. SOMEBODY has to do SOMETHING for God's sake. Got a better idea, instead of just shooting Obama's plan down?

    • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 06/16/2008 11:50:23 PM

      Comment: Doing the absolute WRONG thing is WORSE than doing nothing....

    • Posted By: Zombiehero @ 06/16/2008 9:54:39 PM

      Comment: Yeah get a real job.

      • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 06/16/2008 11:12:41 PM

        Comment: Americans live in the wrong country to get American money!

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 06/16/2008 9:46:01 PM

    Comment: Not only health records, all other records (INS, for example) must be electonic in USA, like in the rest of civilized world. Under Obama guidence or somebody else - Conress must impose severe money penalties for those Hospitals still keeping paper records after some shorf dealine.

    • Posted By: loriw @ 06/16/2008 10:12:33 PM

      Comment: You evidently didn't read my post below. Hospitals don't need to be penalized especially those that are in the red trying to provide healthcare for those that don't have insurance already. Go a head and penalize those that are trying to help.... How about penalizing the attorneys, ambulance chasers, that cost doctors and hospitals billions trying to get monitary awards from bogus lawsuits? How about penalizing patients who don't follow medical advice and continue down a path of health self distruction? How about penalizing Supersized people who want risky and expensive bariatric surgery after years of eating McFries? How about penalizing smokers who continue until they get cancer then want expensive treatment for that? Where is personal responsibility in health care? Why is NO ONE talking about that?

      • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 06/16/2008 11:53:48 PM

        Comment: Hmm....how about we sue the illegal aliens who are taking healthcare - with no insurance - and NOT paying the bills...

      • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/16/2008 10:42:54 PM

        Comment: I'm sorry. Years ago I had a heated discussion with a co worker regarding the smoking issues. Her view were more in line with yours on that issue. However, she disagreed on the mcfry issue. She refused to see the parallel.

    • Posted By: jbboness @ 06/16/2008 9:58:04 PM

      Comment: big, I thought we were a democratic society. Next thing you know, the govt is going to want to penalize you for parking your car in your garage. it is alright when we get to penalize someone else. But whoa, let someboby try to penalize us. We just want everything.

  • Posted By: sedonakaren @ 06/16/2008 9:44:06 PM

    Comment: So.....what d'ya want to do? Continue adding each year to the 47 MILLION uninsured, who are mostly women and children?

    • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 06/17/2008 12:01:25 AM

      Comment: First off - those "facts" are SO skewed it is a farce to keep repeating them.

      1. Some of those "uncovered" Americans are people who have jobs, insurance available and DON'T want the coverage. You know - young 20-somethings who have no dependents and are still young enough to think they will live forev