After the Vows

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  • Posted By: drupus2 @ 06/17/2008 8:55:54 PM

    sjbrock80? Please publish the name and location of your company so any free thinking , decent people with unbigoted moral values can boycott your company. And, I can only hope that someone you are planning to fire due to your ignorant beliefs knows who you are and is reading this so the can launch a preemptive legal battle against you law breaking mentality.

    • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 06/18/2008 4:48:26 PM

      I'm a bigot because I don't accept gay people or marriage? Since when are you the judge of what I must accept?

      Being gay is disgusting, in my opinion, and I will NOT give in to all you people who are trying to make me believe otherwise. If you want to be gay, I don't have to keep you on my payroll no matter what you think. Good luck trying to prove why I fired you.

      STOP PUSHING YOUR BELIEFS ON OTHER PEOPLE!! Gay's don't want others to tell them how to live, yet they have no problem telling other what we must accept.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 06/18/2008 6:38:32 PM

        Does that mean that if you are an evangelical Christian that I could fire you? After all you guys try pushing your beliefs on everyone else. Some might think that an evangelical is disgusting.

        There is a difference between what an individual is allowed to do (you can be as hate-mongering and mindless as you want), and what a business can do.

  • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 06/17/2008 2:58:42 PM

    This issue, like the newly poplular statewide smoking bans, is fine to have an opinion about. But most people don't weigh the consequences of who or what will be affected in the long term.

    The smoking ban in Colorado, for instance, sounded like a great idea to non-smokers or people on the fence. Since the ban has gone into effect, many bars, bowling alleys, and restaurants have gone out of business in Colorado Springs. The historic gambling town of Cripple Creek has suffered huge losses. Is this what people wanted by voting for a smoking ban? Probably not, but it's happening.

    The same may happen with gay marriage acceptance. Many employers will be forced to pay out much more money on their company healthcare policies and it will effect jobs. It's only a matter of time...

    • Posted By: colorado85 @ 06/18/2008 6:22:19 PM

      I no longer have to worry about my clothes smelling of smoke just becasue i went to eat, ot my smoke induced asthma, or secondhand smoke that causes lung cancer due to the Smoking Ban in Colorado. How can one die from the legalization of marriage for two consenting adults no matter what their gender? In a few years this will not be an issue anymore so let it go.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/18/2008 11:55:59 AM

      Gays are a small percentage of the population. Forcing companies to pay out extra in benefits isn't going to hurt them much. Any more than forcing companies to pay women equal amounts hurt companies.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/17/2008 5:52:31 PM

      Believe it or not, I don't believe in outdoor public smoking bans - partially for the reasons you mentioned, and also because I consider it an infringement on civil liberties.

      Of course, I think the same thing should apply to the other major smoked substance in America as well, for reasons of civil liberties, reducing prison load, and getting the warfare mindset out of our police officers so that increasing police brutality and human rights abrogation can stop. But really, who am I to say?

    • Posted By: mbailiff @ 06/17/2008 5:39:09 PM

      what if more heterosexuals decide to get married and suddenly marriage rates jump significantly. would you still have the same argument against them getting married?

  • Posted By: JustTryingToMakeIt @ 06/18/2008 5:57:21 PM

    Just another example of using emotion to cloud and take away attention from the real issues facing us as a nation and as a world. While congress spends thousands dollars and hours in hearings investigating a baseball players alleged use of steriods and/or human growth hormones, the press spending endless hours bombarding us during the primaries with drivel instead of issues, and our leader in his infinite wisdom is in congress askkng them to lift the ban on new oil wells. Well, let's see, there is no shortage of petroleum, again our leader in his infinite wisdom removed the rules governing investors early in his administration, while China, in the midst of its industrial revolution, with the same rules as were in place during ours - which were none - is poisoning the planet, the people and our pets. Now we still have a fit going on over the definition of marriage - with the price of gasoline $4+ a gallon - which in turn has increaed the price of everything else - who gives a damn if a man marries a man or a woman marries a woman - most of us out here are more concerned over the fact that our country is at war with Iraq (a hugh lie we have let the administration get by with) and Afganistan with is legitmate and ignored, we can't afford health care for ourselves or our families, retirement is a moot point (unless of course you are investor in petroleum), we are losing our homes, our jobs, having difficulty feeding and clothing our children - and we are concerned over the definition of marriage - folks the real world out here could care less.
    JustTryingToMakeIt

  • Posted By: GustoMaybe @ 06/18/2008 2:08:47 PM

    Protectmarriage.com : protect it from whom? gay people who have been together for 55 years? or from people who get married again and again, clog the courts with bitter and/or frivolous divorce proceedings and take marriage about as seriously as a Fourth of July picnic?

  • Posted By: onepoker @ 06/18/2008 11:49:44 AM

    Ok Im a life long hard core straight republican (not at all like Larry Craig) but I have to say its time to let these people get married. Lets be practical this is about benefits and rights. A gay partner has no say in rather to pull the plug on a brain dead lover. Is this right? A married man's wife is entitled to the estate immediately on death, a gay person is forced to go through an often painful probate procedure with family members of the deceased who may or may not of supported the gay lifestyle and if theres no will the partner has no chance of being recognized by the courts. If being Gay is a sin let God punish them we should be compassionate for people who's only crime is that they are emotionally different from us.

  • Posted By: mscarr1 @ 06/17/2008 8:08:31 PM

    to apply for spousal benefits when they get home to Tennessee, which bans same-sex marriage. "I'd like to put Derek on my health plan when his insurance expires in November," says Blaudow, a biologist with a biotech firm. "If that becomes an issue, then we'll do whatever it takes to exercise our rights. Why not push ahead and be at the forefront?"
    *********************************

    This is really what it is about medical benefits - because of the health problems many gay males have.

    I want to put my mother on my medical plan - who do I contact so that I can say its my civil right to do so?

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/18/2008 11:36:36 AM

      Well, some insurance companies WILL allow you to put your mom as a dependent. Mine allows anyone that is legally my dependent to be on my insurance. If I'm appointed as my mom's guardian in her elderly years, my insurance would cover her.
      The stereotype that gay males, or lesbians, have higher levels of illness is bigoted and hateful nonsense. What about promiscuous men and women that are straight? People that eat themselves to death? People with diabetes? What, do you want us to deny them coverage, too?

  • Posted By: Gary Hern @ 06/18/2008 12:28:01 AM

    Today Arnold Schwarzenegger kept his promise not to challange gay marriages while turnning a blind eye to
    the Federal Government stand on no same sex marriages. The majority rule has no meanning to Arnold, a
    law in place has no meanning to Arnold, proposistion 22 has no meanning to Arnold. However his wifes rel-
    ative in Massachutes the other gay state has the same disregard for Federal Laws and broken promises to the majority of people who elected them into office. You see in Hollywood a very active gay community one
    realises that after the Govenor returns to pictures he'll need support for his next picture, "How I let down the
    people who elected me Govenor". Arnold plays the role of a republican govenor who secretly is a domo-
    crat like is wife an undercover agent for the state of Massachutes. They tell you one thing but you have to
    decode the real answer by looking up the ACLU's membership of liberal judges that will support hot topics
    like homosexual marriages, illegal immigrants, drug king pins, anti-christian and anti-God supporters who
    pose as real life individuals deserving a chance at reverse discrimination. Yes, Arnold it is all there in the script. I e-mailed you three times and received your standard response, you forgot the one about majority
    rule like in Austria where the law counts for something!

    • Posted By: raddave @ 06/18/2008 12:36:57 AM

      There is just one tiny flaw in your comment, there is no Federal Law that prohibits gay marriage. And yes, the majority rules, unless the majorities will discriminates against the minority, then the law is not valid. That is why laws such as the "Jim Crowe Laws' were overturned.

      • Posted By: Gary Hern @ 06/18/2008 12:53:45 AM

        raddave, President Clinton signed into law a no same sex marriage law to include no deductions for any
        same sex marriage if any state approves a same sex marriage. look it up flawed in seattle..

        • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/18/2008 11:31:24 AM

          That act mainly was created to give states the right over whether or not they want gay marriage. Also, the key difference here is that they're trying to make "civil unions" legal and recognized by the government. Not "marriages." There is a difference.

        • Posted By: greenwolf22 @ 06/18/2008 11:25:56 AM

          Gary- I assume you are talking about DOMA. DOMA does not prohibit same-sex marriage (it simply doesn't recognize it). Califonia isn't breaking any federal laws. DOMA only states the the fed doesn't recognize same sex marriage or civil unions and that States aren't obligated to recognize a same-sex marriage or union from another State. California has decided to recognize it within their state which does not violate DOMA. Forcing another state to recognize this marriage woud be a violation (althought I have no idea if there are any penaties for this). Any old-school conservative will tell you this is a states-rights issue and the fed should butt-out.

  • Posted By: BoGilles @ 06/18/2008 10:16:28 AM

    I have no beef if gay couples settle for civil unions.
    Leave the word "marriage" for the union of a man and a woman.
    If I mentioned to someone that I'm married, I don't want to be asked if it's with a man or a woman.

    • Posted By: greenwolf22 @ 06/18/2008 10:36:50 AM

      Why not call it ALL "civil union" and leave Marriage for religous rites in individual churches. Once "married" you are recognized as a "Civil Union" by the government.

  • Posted By: erikwm @ 06/17/2008 11:26:22 PM

    It was once a radical concept to believe that a woman could choose her own husband. Arranged marriages were the norm and part of tradition. Fathers paid dowries and woman were like property. But because some woman rebelled, rejecting a life in a loveless marriage, this tradition, steeped in misogyny and discrimination, has made it's way to the ash heap of history. It is not a dissimilar situation here. Gay and lesbians long faced the prospect of loveless marriages, marriages of convenience, a life in the shadows of the closet - often with disastrous results for all involved. Only in the past few decades have people stood up and rebelled against such cruel fate. And so it shall be once more, that this "tradition," steeped in discrimination, will end. Marriage for gay and lesbian couples will be legal. In so doing, the institution of marriage will not be weakened, but strengthened, for it will more be inclusive, honest and true.

    • Posted By: Gary Hern @ 06/18/2008 1:12:18 AM

      erikwm, your statement is currently going on today in Muslim countries. The term gay marriage is mis-
      leading, same sex marriages misleads also because it really is homosexuals practicing a sexual pref-
      erance not legal in many states. Even California's laws on sodomy and inclusive for child protection
      hinders the way to legalize sodomy as a right for marriage. Same sex marriage for gay people was used
      because what support could one derive if the true wording were used. I have empathy for love and
      marriage that is benificial in order for civilization to survive. For God so loved the little children.. Where did
      this saying come from? I am not talking about people who cannot have children, I am talking about where
      are the male couples going to get their children? Or, do they want children?

      • Posted By: greenwolf22 @ 06/18/2008 10:22:52 AM

        That's assuming that people get married to have children. While many heterosexual married couples have children, many do not have children by choice. Should they be denied marriage? Also there are plenty of happy sexless marriages out there so the sodomy laws don't neccissarily apply do they? Sodomy laws are about sex not marriage. This argument holds no wieght with me.

  • Posted By: deebee1222 @ 06/18/2008 9:40:00 AM

    Could be that the word "marriage" is too loaded to use. Civil union is less confrontive. After all, we're talking basically about a legal arrangement binding two people who want to take responsibility for each other. Gosh, what's wrong with that? A mutually supportive relationship is beneficial to society both civily and financially. Couples build homes and neighborhoods. This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with civilization.

  • Posted By: pusscat @ 06/18/2008 9:00:05 AM

    Personally, I believe the amount of OUR TAXPAYER money is being spent on this is ridiculous! You don't believe in Gay Marriage? In the words of Whoopi Goldberg- DON'T MARRY A GAY. Other then that? GET OVER IT. I don't want my taxes spent fighting this.

  • Posted By: Floridian @ 06/18/2008 5:47:57 AM

    angel like God would approve of all that hate you have , not

  • Posted By: voxpop78 @ 06/17/2008 6:34:40 PM

    Some important points for those of you who oppose gay marriage:

    1) This is not about religion. California's decision to permit gay marriages does not mean gay people are getting married in your church. Your church has every right to continue to prohibit gays from getting married. This is about the government granting gay couples rights such as being able to file taxes together and make decisions for each other if one spouse falls ill. No one is trying to change what you believe. The government has just extended rights to a new group of people.

    2) Some people think the California decision was rendered by "activist judges," or judges that re-write the law or judges who go against the will of the people. In 1954, many people in Kansas accused judges of thwarting the will of the people and re-writing the law by ending school segregation and insisting that black children be taught in the same schools as white children. Many people of that time looked upon those judges as "activist judges." I believe that no ones civil rights should be determined by a popular vote.

    3) Those of you who oppose gay marriage are the same people who:
    --41 years ago opposed the Supreme Court's ruling that blacks and whites could marry
    --54 years ago opposed the Court's school de-segregation ruling
    --88 years ago opposed granting women the right to vote
    --138 years ago opposed granting black men the right to vote
    --143 years ago opposed the abolition of slavery

    All of the above civil rights milestones were seen by some people as religious blasphemy. Some people were certain the moral fiber of our nation was falling apart. But it wasn't. And gay marriage won't hurt the nation or children or religion or the government. This is simply evolution and it's hard for some because it's different and unfamiliar. But let's let history be our guide. Allowing gays to marry is simply the right thing to do.

    • Posted By: Gary Hern @ 06/18/2008 1:24:58 AM

      voxpop, the supreme rulling was for a white man and a black lady legally married but because the seg-
      ragation laws were equally strong in black neighborhoods as well in white neighborhoods no state wanted
      them to reside in their state. However she was pregnate and a decesision was needed and not the one
      that the police broke into their house and drug them out of their bedroom as locked them up overnight.
      The California Supreme Court used a segrgation law about a legal married couple discriminated against
      by both black and white communities as to where they can raise a family. "A married man and woman"
      not two homosexual men or two woman.. The clarity was for a man and woman of any color, for the right
      to live and raise a family (that is children) in any city in America.

  • Posted By: goldeniangel @ 06/17/2008 4:09:48 PM

    The stupidest thing about people who are against gay marraige is that they're infringing on an area where they don't belong... why do they care?! Is it in their life? They're rather be cruel, inhuman, unChristian bigots who don't think anyone but themselves should be allowed to have LEGAL RIGHTS AND BENEFITS. Separation of Church and State, PLEASE!
    I hate how unChristian all of these so called Christian groups act... whatever happened to Love your Neighbor? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone? No, instead they think they should be able to tell the whole world how to act, what to do, how to be.... they're putting themselves in the place of God, saying that THEY know what He wants, thinks, how God wants the world to be. It's downright sacriligeous really.

    And to sjbrock, let's see, in the long term, people are still going to get married. Gay or straight. And so it's not going to effect healthcare policies and jobs THAT much, MOST national healthcare companies already have "domestic partnership" coverage, for people who can't get married or just live together. I know, because I work for one. Welcome to the real world. Not everyone gets married, not everyone who doesn't/can't get married is gay, and people are way too involved in other people's business.

    • Posted By: ognywogny @ 06/17/2008 6:12:30 PM

      It is unfortunate you speak of God and know nothing of Him, His true Love and His unwavering, unchangeable law. For those who spurn His Love, only wrath remains.

      • Posted By: Carol L. @ 06/17/2008 10:40:00 PM

        Oh please, take that drivel and peddle it somewhere else. A much more enlightened day is coming. The extreme religious rights' days of preaching and practicing persecution, ignorance and hatred, in the name of God and what God wants, are over.

      • Posted By: MooP @ 06/17/2008 6:44:09 PM

        No ognywogny, I think goldeniagel knows God pretty well. Start by looking at your faults. Bigotry, pride, etc. and now imagine an entity that is free from those faults (yes I know it???s hard to do ??? requires a little Socratic wisdom here). Yes, I think God is quite pleased by this, quite pleased indeed.

  • Posted By: drupus2 @ 06/17/2008 8:57:51 PM

    and as for mscarri....legal rights to health benefits are only the tip of the iceburg. There are so many more state and federal rights denied gay and lesbian folks simply because of a bigoted ideology of right and wrong voiced by ignorant people such as yourself.

  • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 06/17/2008 8:53:35 PM

    IMO, banning gay marriage would be a violation of human rights. These people are harmless, they just want to live a happy life like the rest of us. Live and let live.

  • Posted By: seti2008 @ 06/17/2008 6:52:06 PM

    Agreed. There is a separation of church and state in this country. Gay couples are not marrying in the churches. They are doing it civilly. Even if voters in California vote in November to ban gay marriages, the fight will go on. Why no one has challenged the one man, one woman laws as sexist, escapes me. To tell someone they must be a man or a woman to have a particular right is already wrong. And something is in inherently wrong with allowing a majority, who has certain rights to deny them to a minority. My dum@ass heterosexual sisters and brothers and their hundred progeny, who can't read or write, are not to make health decisions for me.

  • Posted By: seti2008 @ 06/17/2008 6:51:04 PM

    Agreed. There is a separation of church and state in this country. Gay couples are not marrying in the churches. They are doing it civilly. Even if voters in California vote in November to ban gay marriages, the fight will go on. Why no one has challenged the one man, one woman laws as sexist, escapes me. To tell someone they must be a man or a woman to have a particular right is already wrong. And something is in inherently wrong with allowing a majority, who has certain rights to deny them to a minority. My dum@ass heterosexual sisters and brothers and their hundred progeny, who can't read or write, are not to make health decisions for me.

  • Posted By: firemedic258 @ 06/17/2008 5:58:21 PM

    This is going to be a mess for all the other states that don't recognize the marriages and suddenly get hit with all the lawsuits because of it. It will cost the taxpayers a fortune. If the states already have laws or amendments recognizing marriage as man and woman, that should be it. Sorry. If you want your marriage recognized move to California. Where you choose to live is just that, a choice. California wants to recognize gay marriage, other states don't. You have options in life. Deal with it. Anyways, you need to be living in California when you want a divorce. Their divorce laws do have a residency requirement.....

  • Posted By: firemedic258 @ 06/17/2008 5:58:00 PM

    This is going to be a mess for all the other states that don't recognize the marriages and suddenly get hit with all the lawsuits because of it. It will cost the taxpayers a fortune. If the states already have laws or amendments recognizing marriage as man and woman, that should be it. Sorry. If you want your marriage recognized move to California. Where you choose to live is just that, a choice. California wants to recognize gay marriage, other states don't. You have options in life. Deal with it. Anyways, you need to be living in California when you want a divorce. Their divorce laws do have a residency requirement.....

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