Where Can Gays Wed?

I wouldn't call it a church since they go against the word of God.....

Didar,

I really am trying to teach you how to communicate in English so that in the future people will be able to understand you better.


You started on this board by trying to explain that Islam is a religion of love. Or more specifically, your view that that love comes from the family and that homosexuality is not consistant with the family.(Which at alter point I showed is not a valid assertion. And then you made the inccorect claim that both the laws in Judaism were written down well after the fact and that Islam was "more suited for modern life". That is where I came in to state that you were wrong about that claim. I also said that not ALL of Islam is suited for modern life, as is demonstrated by the Saudis and other fundamentalist Islamic states.


We went back and forth about that (the fact tht there has been a lot of violence doneinthe name of Islam) and a few other things and then you stated on 07/26/2008 07:07:20 that "I,m 17 years old I think every one in my age just think about how to enjoy life but im not
you tell me that I have no sense while I cant even eat any kind of meat{im vegetarian}" which had no seeming relevance to the discussion at hand. The fact that you cannot eat meat/are a vegetarian, was not relevant to how some (I never said ALL) of Islam behaves. You did not equate vegetarianism with not liking bloodshed at this time. You said that people your age "just think about how to enjoy life" but that you are not like that. THAT is when you first mentioned being a vegetarin. You equated bveing a vegetarian with not being like others your own age and "enjoying life". (Now personally I think that vegetarina are jsut a capable of enjoying life as meat eaters. Every vegetarian I know relly enjjoys their life.)

It wa later that you said that you meant that being vegetarin was because "I don't want anyone or anything hurt because of me".

My response to that was to point out that although that might be your reason (and maybe even is others people's reason for being vegetarian) that to assume that people would automatically make the link is not valid. THAT is when I pointed out that there are vegetarians (including Hitler) who have no problem with ALL bloodshed. And furthermore that not everyone who is vegetarian does so because they hate for anything to harmed for thier benefit. THAT is ALL that I was trying to teach you. That when you write you need to be more concise and really think out what you writing.

As a side point I think that you would find that more than 50% of non-vegetarian hate bloodshed (and war) too. It is just part of being a civilized human being.

Didar,

Where do you get your statistics on 50% or more of vegetarians hating ALL bloodshed. (Hating all bloodshed would mean that they are complete pacificsts and would refuse to serve in the military.)
I know many vegetarians how, although they do not eat meat (and over half do so purely for personal health reasons and not because they think that eating meat is inherently wrong. ) Now do many vegetarians oppose everyone eating meat? Of course, but that does not mean the majority do or that they oppose other forms of bloodshed. BTW, my comment was that being a vegetarian does not automatically mean that one hates bloodshed, which was what your posts implied.

My comment about your age was because you have a tendency to make blanket statements without evidence. That is a tendency that I have noticed among my younger students.

And my comment about your limited English skills was to point out that those limitations result in your not getting your ideas across in a cogent manner. IT was asking to to be a bit more careful when you write.

I did effectively answer your quetion but I will give you a direct answer. Of course. There is no reason to think that same-sex marraiges would nto last just as long as opposite sex marraiges. I know over 50 same-sex couples, 35 of whom have been in monogamous relations (with the same person) for over 10 years.) 20 of those have been together over 22 years and 5 have been together over 30 years.


I post here because I am a human being who is a strtong supporter of equal rights for ALL people. The idea that only gays would post here is ignorant at best. The majority of people who post on newsboards are heterosexual (since the majority of the planet is heterosexual), the the majority of people who support gay rights are heterosexual becuase,like equal rights for women, Jews, Muslims, and the like, gays are entiteld to equal rights. Remember the article that this comment board is tied to is about US law. Most of us hate that religious nutjobs are trying to rape the US Constitution by making US laws based on thier narrow view of thier religion. That is treason against the US Constitution and the USA.

I am a university professor. If you talked to Sociology profgessor and history professors they would tell you that marriage was not primary for procreation.

Didar,

I never said you that you had problem s with other religions, just that you had made a mistake about the timeline of Judaism's written texts.

Not that it matters, but I am white. Hopefully as you get older you will suffer less and develop the strength to help those in your country who oppose hatred and bigotry to win the fight for peace and humanity.

And when I said that you were not making sense, I was saying that based on what you wroteis was very hard to discern what your meaning was. It has taken time and many posts t figure out some of what you were trying to say.

didar,

OK. I was just telling you how the conversation got to this point and why I made some of my posts.

Actually I did understand what you were saying , once you clarified why you had made certain comments. You are actually experiencing what many young people arind the world experience. It is not a bad thing. It is part of growing up and being acaring person. Many young people have a hard time enjoying themselves because they constantly think about those who have a harder life than they do, Right now it makes things very hard for you to do day to day things. Ass you get older, hopefully, you will still have that marvelous empathy, but realize that if you do not take care of yourself, you will not have the energy to help others.

Just because there are famous vegetarians who hate bloodshed does not mean that vegetarianism is automatically tied to hating bloodshed. THAT is the point I was making. I understand that it is both your age and limited skills with the English language, but as I said before, I was commenting on the fact that in your prior posts you mentioned vegetarianism and then tried to tie that to being against bloodshed in a way that came off sounding as if one being vegetarian meant that one ALSO hated bloodshed. I was trying to teach you to be careful how you write.

And when you said to be more careful you did NOT say to be more careeful reading your posts. Like it or not this is an English language board so the onus on making oneself clear lies with the writer not the reader.

Having a baby is not the main purpose of marraige. It never has been. It was originally a property rights issue. Marriage has nothing to do with nature. It is a completey human-made idea. Having babies is pure biology and it is no different for humans than for animals. Same sex couples can have babies through a wide range of methods, but that has no effect on their relationship with their partners.

I am not gay. I am male and if and when I get married it will be to a woman. Aside from standard friendships with men and women, all of my relationships have been with women and all of my sexual relations have been with women. I am sexually attracted only to the opposite sex. A piece of advice. You willl find that the overwhelming majority of people you meet who are pro-same-sex marraige are in fact not gay/lesbian. Do not presume that on these boards that the defenders of same-sex marriage are gay. Some will be gay, but most, I would venture, are heterosexual.

But for same sex couples they could be called two wives, two husbands or two spouses. The words used have no bearing on the legitimacy of same-sex marriage.

And since marraige does not exist in the animal kingdom the question about it is nonsense. But same-sex couplings and "pairings" do exist in the animal kingdom in every single mammalian species. Science has documented that.

OK. But once again you failed to point out he reasons you became a vegetarian. So my points were valid.

Younever mentioned yoga in your prior posts, so I would have to reason to know why you became a vegetarian. Also, Yoga is not exclusively a religion. there are many people who practice the relaxation techniques who do not follow the religion.

I have no reason to be careful. I am doing nothing wrong or unhealthy. BTW, I am not gay. I am heterosexual.

Science has shown that homosexuality exists in every mamallian (and some non-mammalian) species so it is very much in tune with nature. It has nothin to do with control. Sex is a beautiful and healthy thing. Homosexuality is not jut aobut (or even primarily about) sex. It is about attraction and therefore isnot different from heterosexuality.

Just so you know, there are a wide range of reasons why people become vegetarians and only a few of them have any ties to hating or disavowing ALL bloodshed.

Actaully AIDS has NO effect on the number of marraiges between men and women. Whoever told you that is wrong.

And although I understand that you may live in country where relationships outside of marraige are aillegal that is not the case in the rest of the world. In US law (and the law of may other countries) Marriage is primarily a property rights/.end-of-life decisions/estates/medical decisons/taxation issue. Love and companionship are not a requiring as far as the state is concern (nor should it be, whihc is why the state has no valid reason to prohibit same-sex marriage). If one does not care about those issues, marriage is not needed. It may be desired but it is not needed.

I was I was not comparing you with Hitler. I was saying that your analogy of vegetarianism being analagous to hating bloodshed is not a vlid one. It may have been your reason, but it is not a generally logical analogy. Reading whaat you wrote in prior posts, it can be easily inferred that you were saying that vegetarianism is always tied to a hatred of bloodshed when it is not. You need to be more careaful when you write that sort of stuff.

And I am saying that the "habit of homosexuality" is not bad either. There is nothing wrong with it.

My 8-10% comment was not about lesbians OR gays. Demographically somewhere between 8-10% of the world's population are gay or lesbian. The 2% variance is due to the normal variance in statistical studies.

Didar,

I am saying that you are making no sense because it s very hard to understand exactly what you are trying to convey. I am aware that English is not your first language, but you need to understand that some of what you are writing is coming acrros as at times nonsensical.

My point is that your ideas are not actually helping humanity. You do not seem to have really thought through the whole issue (or perchance have not done enoguh research to offer informed options). Some of your concepts (such as using the strawman argument about a person you are talking to not being there if their father had been married to a man) are seriously flawed. I am trying to help you become better informed about the realities of the issue.

I never said that you make no sense because you are vegetarian (I have no idea where you came up with that idea) or because you are an "emotional 17 year old (I was not aware of your age or emotional state, and theose things are not evident in your writing.)

And I never said that your religion is bad. Jjust that you are mistaken in your assertions about how Judaism and Jewish theological texts were developed and what they say. My comments were also that although Islam has done much good, it is currently not representing itselfinthe best light (but neither is some of Christianity ir Judaism.)

I have not idea what a "heartbroken comment is". I am not heartbroken, so my comments cannot be heartbroken.

AS for my comment about your religious beleifs be your own beliefs and not fact, that is not a criticism or a negative. ALL of religion is humna belief. There is no irrefutable evidence that any of the theological aspects of any religon are anything other than creations of the human imagination. In fact, the is no proof that gods exist except in the human imagination. There is nothing wrong with god existing in the human imagination. Many people need to have god in their imagination. Among other things, it gives them a sense of security, and that sense is not false if it inspires them act accordingly. It (and religion as well, since all religions are human-made constrcuts) can inspire them to treat their fellow humans and the planet with respect and dignity. That is always a positive and beneficial thing.