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  • Posted By: cbinpa @ 06/26/2008 11:28:31 AM

    The march toward fascism by this administration should alarm every citizen, conservative and liberal alike. Every would be dictator invents an imaginary, civilization-destroying enemy, then proceeds to take away citizens rights under the guise of "protection".. (sure, fundamentalist terrorists are a threat, but they aren't going to destroy our way of life, UNLESS we let them by giving up our freedoms ) Do your homework, read your history. The pattern is profound. Please, write to your senators and congressmen asserting your fundamental, constitutional rights to privacy, freedom of speech and religion before they are further stripped from you.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/26/2008 3:45:22 PM

      I'll only get scared if there's some sort of "terrorist attack" before Bush leaves power, and he tries to keep it under some sort of emergency guise. Otherwise, the neocons are on their way out, and my guess is that their political stock has tanked, probably for good.

  • Posted By: mdeagon @ 06/25/2008 11:53:05 PM

    It really doesn't matter how a government seeks to justify such a program. It will continue to push and chip away at our Bill of Rights until you can no longer use it to ensure any sense of liberty. The power and abilities of these mechanisms will allow a surveillance agency to virtually step inside your home and life without any clue that they're doing it. The use of fear mongering, etc. by the Bush administration, and others likely to continue its terrible work, seeks to ensure that what used to be our good faith in our government will make this possible. Humans will control the use of these satellites, and they will, therefor, inevitably be abused. Congress should forever ban the use of these satellites for this work and only allow them to be used as they have been used in the previously described natural diaster and agricultural endeavors, once permission has been granted and under total and full disclosure. The Constitution was created to ensure that our natural human rights to be our own free sovereigns is never constrained. The real solution to reducing crime is not more and more laws, rules, constraints, and ever-present forms of enforcement, but rather addressing the root causes which is giving people more to live for than crime. You know, rather than spending trillions of dollars on illegal wars, etc., we might spend it on education, health care, infrastructure, etc. Just a thought.

    • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 06/26/2008 11:00:50 AM

      People don't seem to give a rats a$$ about the constitution and bill of rights anyway. Today we have a judicial system "deciding" if the second ammendment applies to private citizens. If you were to look into the history of the bill of rights, it was all meant for private citizens. The constitution took care of the government, but the ammendments were designed to protect private citizens. Amazing how a coupl hundred years later we want to interpret these things. I suppose if the first ammendment were in question the same way, the press would be up in arms about it.

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/26/2008 1:43:47 PM

        Um, the amendments and bill of rights ARE the constitution. Several amendments outside of the bill of rights (the 1st 10 of the constitution) have been meant for private citizens: freeing slaves, equal rights for women and blacks, the commencement and subsequent repeal of prohibition, etc. The constitution is constantly being interpreted as times change, hence why we had to put in amendments for women and blacks...or do you disagree with that, too?

    • Posted By: summer1216 @ 06/26/2008 10:46:02 AM

      People don't even know their bills of rights. In large project, questioners asked people to name the 10 basic rights delineated in the bill of rights. Almost no one got even a few, and the most common few that they did barely remember, they got wrong. The most common wrong one was "the right to bear arms". We can't protect our rights if we don't even know what they are.

  • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 06/26/2008 9:43:59 AM

    civil liberties? they have an x-ray machine that can look into your bedroom? if not when in public you should be watched!!!

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/26/2008 1:38:43 PM

      Well they can listen in on phone conversations, do surveillance on your home, and track your car. Who knows if they're peering inside yet.

  • Posted By: lakenorth @ 06/26/2008 12:19:29 PM

    Where have you been? Bush has been spying on you from the sky for eight years. The sad commentary is that he's so stupid............ what will he do with the information? Don't blame Bush, YOU voted for him twice.

    • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 06/26/2008 12:21:51 PM

      YOU SAID IT YOURSELF "8 YEARS" AND THEY HAVN'T DONE ANYTHING SO THERES NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/26/2008 1:34:57 PM

        Yeah that's like saying, "There's a convicted pedophile in my neighborhood, but he hasn't done anything for 8 years so there's nothing to worry about." The scary thing is that the administration CAN do something if they want to. The fact that they haven't is a moot point. I find it funny that you use that argument, when I'm sure you're also one that argues no terrorism has occured because of Bush's efforts. So which is it--nothing has happened so don't worry about it, or worry about the *potential* for something to happen.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/26/2008 9:26:24 AM

    Yes, millerm84. What some people don't realize is that when these erosions of our freedoms occur, the power to intrude into our daily lives trickles down through the law enforcement agencies little by little, statute by statute, court decision by court decision, and finally into the hands of the local constabulary. "Lemme see what you got in your pockets, there", with no probable cause to ask. "Why are you driving here this time of night", with no probable cause to ask. "What you got in that purse? Looks too big to me to be innocent".
    The constitution has protections written in it to prevent such intrusion into our innocent daily lives, free from undue suspicion, and "undue suspicion" is the unworthy motivation for these intrusions.

    • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 06/26/2008 10:39:06 AM

      And what some people don't realize (which is obvious by this article as well as these comments) is that this technology has been around well before Bush was in office. Take a look at google earth for example. You can type in an address and zoom clear into your own back yard. So, where do you think this technologies came from? What is pathetic is that people are quick to give government control over our lives by voting socialized this, socialized that and other handouts, yet make a mountain out of a molehill on other issues. You cry about our freedoms being lost yet you will give them away freely elsewhere. Amazing how the constiutution is used as a back up when the issue suits the need and is left to interpretation when it doesn't suit your agenda.....

      On top ot it all, the press and those others who would distort reality will bring up these issues and find a way to twist them around for their own political use - and stupid people buy into it. Leave "Bush" out of this - he can't even legitimately be a scapegoat for this NON ISSUE. But some will try.... Very pathetic how todays media and society will distort facts and use the constitution only when it suits their needs and in the other breath argue that the constitution needs interpretation. Wake up and get off the stupid pills

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/26/2008 1:21:12 PM

        Quite honestly and frankly, private technology probably far outstrips anything the government can do. NASA had a competing application to Google Earth - NASA World Wind - and where Google Earth is about a 15MB download and works nearly flawlessly, World Wind was a 300MB, pixelated, ugly mess.

        If the "spooks" have any sense at all they'll forget the overpaid computer contractors who do so much gov't. work and start using things like Google Earth, just as they eventually dropped the e-spying program Carnivore for off-the-shelf technology.

        But if you really are a retired Marine, you ought to drop the bullying and insults. I took the oath to serve my country too at Great Lakes. To me, you're acting like a disservice to the services. If you come here as a retired service officer, then you're a representative of your country, and it would benefit us all for you to get rid of the contempt.

    • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 06/26/2008 9:46:41 AM

      sure to stop you for no cause is wrong,but wheres it say in the constitution the governtment can't "watch you"?

  • Posted By: bigdeden @ 06/25/2008 10:11:12 PM

    Wow. I linked to this article from a headline on MSNBC that siad "Bush wants to train spy satellites on U.S." It's amazing how these two "news organizations" work in concert to deceive the American public. These technologies have been in existence for years and have in no case that I've ever heard of been used to violate civil liberties. Why don't you people worry about radical Muslims training their rockets on your kids like they do in Isreal instead of worrying about our government trying to do everything they can to protect us.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/26/2008 1:06:08 PM

      That's "Israel". And Israel has done quite a bit over the years to provoke its neighbors - our media has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to reporting some of their history and the human rights abuses that state perpetuates (I'm not saying they're better or worse than any other nation, just that we have a blind spot in reporting it). Also, while there are plenty of fundamentalist, jihadist, thuggish radical Muslims, probably 90% of Muslims or more are peaceful citizens who have families, children, and aren't seeking to "train...rockets" on anyone. Christians have ugly fundamentalists too - so do the Jews - so does just about every religion in existance.

      And yes, as others have noted, the spooks have been with us for years. But this ruling does give them more power to act with a free hand. I personally think it's a further unnecessary centralizing of federal power in a country where there's already been too much unnecessary centralizing of power. This paves the way for more money to be spent on spying and prisons instead of infrastructure development and improvement, which is badly neglected in the U.S.

    • Posted By: frankdooley @ 06/26/2008 6:22:15 AM

      @ bigdeden:

      Perfect for you: http://www.ablankpaper.com/2008/06/dear-internet-commenter/

    • Posted By: Tyrantstalktoomuch @ 06/26/2008 1:35:03 AM

      What makes you such a coward? Just how limited is your world view anyway?

  • Posted By: OneConcernedAmerican @ 06/26/2008 12:16:49 AM

    One of our founding father's said it best.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
    Any "program" with the potential to dig very deeply into the lives' of Americans deserves very careful scrutiny.
    It seem as though we are moving very quickly of the concept of "freedom" employed in the old Soviet Union.
    Their concept of freedom was "freedom from". The American concept has been "freedom to". Do we really want to sacrifice everyone's privacy?
    My hat is off to our Congress on this one

    • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 06/26/2008 10:48:17 AM

      There are so many other issues where our freedoms are being willingly given away and we allow government to take control of our daily lives, yet the issue of concern is ... they want to wathc us???/ The quote from Benjamin Franklin you mention is very profound. It is a shame that people don't pay attention to it when they vote for the government to grow even larger and more controlling. Esp with the view that the government should take from one to give to another, that somehow the government knows what is best for us, etc.... If you are going to fight for freedoms, how about for all the freedoms rather than picking and choosing which freedoms you want.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/26/2008 9:31:29 AM

    Everything overdone, as in, "mama get the hammer, there's a fly on baby's head." The spy satellite is not the way to solve the problem. It is the problem.

  • Posted By: adriadna @ 06/25/2008 10:21:59 PM

    With Bush's popularity so low, it's interesting to read comments of those who still support him. I've noticed that the people that oppose Bush and Co.'s neo-con platform, the so called "liberals" or "left-wings" write with so much more clarity and intelligence. The Bush supporters can barely spell and many of them make crude, stupid comments. Maybe that's why it's so easy for Republican politicians to dupe them into voting for them.
    they are the

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 06/26/2008 9:12:28 AM

      Agreed! That's also because so many Republicans are fed up and are crossing over to the Democratic party for this election. Apparently only the ones who can spell, though.

  • Posted By: millerm84 @ 06/26/2008 9:08:49 AM

    The idea that the government wants to be able to watch whoever whenever and without regulation is the problem here(not that anyone believes that they can) but just because they can't doesn't lessen the fact they shouldn't have the ability to do so. The notation "If you've nothing to hide, then let us in" is astoundingly stupid. If you're not doing something wrong you have a right to not be searched, you have a right to refuse an officer of the law entry to your home if they don't possess a warrant. Spy satellites would not have stopped 9/11 those men were living normal lives that, from the sky, would not have produced evidence they were terrorist. These men went to jobs, went to mosque, prayed to Allah, and pursued a hobby, flying. Those men blended into our society and no satellite could have proved they were malicious. What will prevent further terrorist attacks is better airport security, I went through 3 US airports with a leathermen(small hand multi-tool with a cutting edge that was left over from a camping trip) I was never stopped, until i got to London, and a more intensive visa process from all nations that (with that person's signed permission on the application) will have NSA run back ground checks.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/26/2008 8:52:11 AM

    The Republican party ought to have to pay a fine for picking Bush to run for president. They were desperate for a candidate, and not having one, they gambled that a name could win the office. Even though the name didn't win, they got him into the office anyway. He never understood the office and has governed like a fire hose out of control. His statements about things illustrate his ignorance, "smoke him out, string him up", referring to a fugitive from justice who has never even been seen despite billions spent and squandered to do so. He has such a poor understanding of the office, he thinks that the other two branches were a plot to deprive him of his divine right to rule on everything, as if he were king and his wisdom should govern all things. He has presided over efforts to take our individual freedoms away in the name of a fictitious war, a "war on terror" which has mostly been spent in Iraq, commenced in fraud. He, himself is the terror as he adds this next insult to our privacy in the name of a cowboy justice which never existed except in his own childish mind. Hurry, November, hurry, before he wrecks the place. He admits that he appears to be incompetent, but in the "Harry Truman" sense, to be adored in the future somehow as his gross incompetence fades into historical memory. He is no Harry Truman. There is no saving grace. He will be History's butt of governmental jokes. Only a democracy as strong as ours could ever survive such an attack on its integrity.

  • Posted By: scottjayne @ 06/25/2008 8:57:20 PM

    OMG Observer is a perfect example of the 17% that think this is the way to go for our country.
    Imagine for a moment what is about to happen. The Justice Dept. has been purged of Democrats and stuffed with Neo Con Whacko Republican Fascists loyal not to the country but to their Party. Active Democrat businesspersons will have their voting record, banking info, web traffic, emails, phone conversations, travel,location, and physical movements all tracked and catalogued. The Justice Department then finds some mix with which to prosecute, and silently off to jail you go. Your biz fails, your family falls to poverty and your economic power is NOTHING. Thirty years of this and we will be in a living ONE PARTY HELL. The ONLY people, like "Observer" that think this is okay are persons that feel they have an inside position with the Fascist regime. These petulant arguements that "its already happening-get used to it", and "if you're not doing anything wrong whats there to worry about", are not ignorant and foolish, they are evil manipulators of semantics trying to lead us away from our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS OF FREEDOM AND AUTONOMY.

    • Posted By: observer101 @ 06/25/2008 9:35:04 PM

      Nice conspiracy theory...In case you havent noticed, you give your info at the library, electric co, cell, phone, credit card company..What more does one need to be watched...You dealt with this your whole life..and its bound to happen with any government...Weve had spy sats in the sky forever...Just because a news outlet wants to sensationalize this doesnt make it wrong....And another thing its our countrymens given rights that we have not God given...If thats the case then Gods given rights would be popular all over this world, by God fearing politicians as in Cuba, Somalia, and other nations that kill in Gods name...So throwing Gods name in the mix doesnt validate arguement . Our rights were developed by Americans, which if Im not mistaken were mortal men, which have the right to be altered as the times change and as society dictates. Gods laws dictate to do what is right, not hide what is wrong. You are obviously some type of Bush hater that sleeps holding a gun under your bed waiting for DA man to come busting in and haul you away...

      • Posted By: Tyrantstalktoomuch @ 06/26/2008 1:52:23 AM

        II have to agree with some of the other observations about that 17% idiot base. They stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe we should let them have there own country. The old Confederate South would be perfect. Since history claims the civil war was about slavery, we can claim mission accomplished and let them go their own way. They can finally have a country where they can cower in fear while they revel in terror, await the rapture and stay the hell out of our way. Only condition for this new land: No nukes, no Satellites and of coarse no Slaves.

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/25/2008 11:37:01 PM

        I'm not sure about the last part, but much of that is true.

        The CIA has been spying forever, including on Americans. So has the FBI. So have local police departments and detectives in certain cases.

        I do think the first poster is being somewhat paranoid, at least at this point. The neocons are mostly on their way out (barring some sort of severe crisis that keeps Bush in power, which is hard to see happening). Also, as others have noticed, the Feds hardly have the time or manpower to spy on everybody effectively, at least not yet.

        I do, however, think a giant "eye in the sky" is an unfortunately fitting final legacy for an administration that trampled civil liberties and due process with such reckless and dangerous abandon.

  • Posted By: sean @ 06/26/2008 1:24:25 AM

    *** that. Bush is a war criminal

  • Posted By: thisisnotamerica @ 06/26/2008 12:48:52 AM

    Why do so few people seem to care that, with the signing statements, executive orders and the criminal capitulation of Congress, the United States is now a presumptive Police State?.

  • Posted By: quetzl @ 06/26/2008 12:46:37 AM

    This Nation is absolutely broken, a state of affairs that began long, long ago but that has accelerated dramatically over the past eight years. Domestic privacy and security are but terms experienced only in dreams. Nevertheless, the smoldering, summative outrage over trampled individual rights will move the pendulum dramatically back toward rational balance. The only danger here is that a violent over-correction holds its own set of perils.

  • Posted By: OneConcernedAmerican @ 06/26/2008 12:16:10 AM

    One of our founding father's said it best.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
    Any "program" with the potential to dig very deeply into the lives' of Americans deserves very careful scrutiny.
    It seem as though we are moving very quickly of the concept of "freedom" employed in the old Soviet Union.
    Their concept of freedom was "freedom from". The American concept has been "freedom to". Do we really want to sacrifice everyone's privacy?
    My hat is off to our Congress on this one

  • Posted By: solarpower @ 06/25/2008 8:59:46 PM

    HOLY EFFIN' CRAP!

    The Bush Admin and the GOP are clearly not to be trusted regarding ANYTHING related to civil liberties under any circumstances.

    Attention Democrats who still labor under the illusion that your GOP counterparts love America: NO MORE. STop anything and everything they want to do related to spying. Don't you understand they will spy on YOU? They already have, and probably are right now, and you have no recourse to ensure they are not, thanks to your own FISA ineptitude.

    Ask your Democratic Representative who voted for FISA if they can prove they are not being spied on right now. Then ask them how they think this satellite thingy will go.

    • Posted By: underdog @ 06/25/2008 11:08:06 PM

      I am a Republican and it disgust me to read what this administration has done and is doing. This is not the George Bush that ran in 2000. Unfortunately, this is the real George, Boy did he put on a good show when he ran . There are some, like Arnold Scharzenegger, that are fiscally conservative, but still work with Democrats for the good of the public. That ain't Bush.

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/25/2008 11:39:22 PM

        Yeah, I like Arnold too. He got handed a tough financial deck by decades of bungled government (Democratic, in this case), and he's played it decently well. And he's taken some tough stances on environmentalism that have bucked the Republican trend, which I think is the superior economic long-term strategy. The bill for our fossil fuel use is going to come due in way too many ways in the next few decades. And I agree he's a far sight from the Bush bungling.

  • Posted By: Jake22202 @ 06/25/2008 10:51:04 PM

    So, I am working in the government spy office, and I am so busy. Do you know how much time it takes for me to spy on all of you? I mean really. It takes a tremendous amount of concentration to watch every move that everyone of you make especially when you are in a crowd. If I look away for just a second I lose you and then of course you can run around and do whatever until we pick you up again at home. I hate it most when I have to go to the bathroom right when someone is getting ready to do something, or when a cloud covers you. Plus, they have me assigned to read all of your email and listen to all of your calls. Hey can you guys use better spam filters. We just got a memo today that we don't have to read your spam, only things in your inbox. Also, stop with all the email addresses. I know I have 3 yahoos and 2 hotmails not counting my work one. Do you know how hard it is for me to follow you on my little video screen, read your emails, and listen to your phone calls and read all your text messages. I don't even know all the LOL, BRB, IMHO, and all of those things so it is kind of hard. Sometimes when you are at a football game, I get distracted by the game and watch it a little and then of course we swing the satellite over to the cheerleaders and watch them before we swing back to you. Well I have to go now and violate all of your civil rights. It is a busy job, but someone has to do it.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 06/25/2008 11:32:27 PM

      I agree that the government doesn't really have the time or resources to spy on *all* of us. There are 300,000,000 people or thereabouts in the U.S.; that would be an awfully heavy caseload. But It sets a bad precedent.

      I haven't really been too worried about the government tracking my computer records, for just the reason you described - the Feds just don't have the processing power to watch all of us all the time, also I just don't really do anything that bad or dangerous. But down the line more sophisticated computer-processing technology could spring up that theoretically "recognizes" dangerous activity, programs that with enough horsepower could give one person the ability to watch thousands of blocks at a time. Giving the government carte blanche to do this sets us up for the automated programs, and tends to make it easier to allocate more of any budget to police, jails, etc., at the expense of schools, infrastructure, research, technology development.

      I wouldn't trust this kind of domestic spying to any President without severe reservations. I'm unconditionally against this kind of thing from the Bush administration. But, like so many others on these issues since the beginning of the administration's power, the American people have been effectively overruled.

  • Posted By: underdog @ 06/25/2008 10:54:38 PM

    This is a program that needs to wait for the next administration. To trust the current administration would be a big mistake. They do not seem to have a good track record of providing all pertinent information to Congress and seem to blur the lines on what is legal. Wither it's Obama or McCain I would feel better if a program like this was justified on their watch.

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