Modern Maturity?

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  • Posted By: liltimmy @ 06/27/2008 12:42:52 PM

    It also takes a lot of finite fossil fuel to dig up that other finite fuel.

  • Posted By: liltimmy @ 06/27/2008 12:42:01 PM

    It also takes a lot of finite fossil fuel to dig up that other finite fuel.

  • Posted By: wordwyvern @ 06/27/2008 11:42:09 AM

    So far it appears that the two huge problems with neuclear power plants are glossed over by McCain just as our (older) generation has always glossed over the wider impact of our consumerism. What is to guarantee that these plants are constructed correctly when constructing them shoddily will make the contractors more money? What in heaven's name is to be done with the neuclear waste? Until we find a way to rid ourselves of what we've made already it seems imprudent to produce more of the deadly stuff.

    • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 11:49:17 AM

      You are looking for the perfect, non-polluting fuel and there is no such thing. Nuclear is the least polluting. Even hydrogen, which only emits water vapor and nothing else, is a problem. What do you think will happen when we pump kazillion tons of water vapor into the air? Can you say Katrina and Camille every week of the summer? How about midwest style flooding in every state year-round? Let's be reasonable and go with the fuel that poses the least problems, not the imaginary problem-free fuel.

      • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/27/2008 12:03:53 PM

        Are you going to run your car on nuclear? The water vapor will cause flooding and hurricanes? Thanks a lot Mr. Wizard? What university did you get your PHD in? Did you find it on the back of a matchbox?

        • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 12:40:48 PM

          Hey, dumb dumb, nuclear power plants generate steam. That is the first step. Steam turbines generate electricity. That's the second step. Steam can be used to gasify and liquefy coal to make natural gas and hydrogen or gasoline for your car. Electricity can also be used to generate hydrogen via electrolysis. And yes, water vapor can cause more flooding. What do you think creates rain? Water vaporizes from the ocean into the atmosphere. Upon reaching the dew point, the vapor condenses and becomes rain. More water vapor means more rain. More water vapor means more and stronger hurricanes. Now, do you get it?

    • Posted By: Ghost13 @ 06/27/2008 12:19:57 PM

      With competent oversight, and resposibility placed on the constructors plants should be constructed according to specifications. Nuclear waste can be recycled and processed to a minimal amount of actually radioactive materials. What we should ask ourselves is where do we want our toxins? From a Coal plant it is in the air entering our lungs, at least with nuclear it's sealed up in a place designed for it.

    • Posted By: desh @ 06/27/2008 11:50:07 AM

      Thank you with Bush as our president we cant even fix New Orleans, Trade Towers, militay bases in Iraq that don't kill our own troops. For g-d sake soilder cant even take a shower with out Electrocuting themselves so why will we be able to build a nuclear powered plant that won't explode and kill tons, all the while the goverments grant given to their friends cost the tax payers billions extra for everythng?

      Posted By: wordwyvern @ 06/27/2008 11:42:09 AM
      Comment: So far it appears that the two huge problems with neuclear power plants are glossed over by McCain just as our (older) generation has always glossed over the wider impact of our consumerism. What is to guarantee that these plants are constructed correctly when constructing them shoddily will make the contractors more money? What in heaven's name is to be done with the neuclear waste? Until we find a way to rid ourselves of what we've made already it seems imprudent to produce more of the deadly stuff.

  • Posted By: barbara474 @ 06/27/2008 12:38:59 PM

    anti-part: Thank-you! More brains, less baloney. Emphasis on issues not emotions.
    ajiron: As someone who has friends and family in the New Energy Industry, I read much and have extensive dialogues with people who are experts (PHDs, GMs etc.) in this Industry. Algae proliferation and use in new fuels still has many unresolved hurdles, look closely at the Hawaiian project if you doubt this. There are, however, both short term (rapeseed) and long term (jatropha) alternatives. And please don't stop promoting new solutions because, as you know, more oil is no kind of answer.
    geminimom: Not to appear flippant, but, if we cancelled several dozen pork-barrel piggie initiatives (such as a war for more oil, and administration hugging corporate bailouts) we would not notice the deficit.
    Admittedly there are some issues on which I stand in opposition to Mr. Obama. No one candidate is perfect and it would be illogical to believe that or promote it. Having so stated, the largest issue facing us as both nation and (part of the) planet is the energy/economy/environment issue. All intelligent resources agree that one cannot separate the 3 Es. Mr Obama, I must admit, has the best short term answers and long term recommendations that I have investigated.

  • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:30:54 PM

    harhar, very funny post, olderwiser.

  • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:09:15 PM

    Liltimmy - I saw that documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car" back when it first came out in 2006 - it was excellent. They should run it on national TV. Good point!

    • Posted By: liltimmy @ 06/27/2008 12:26:37 PM

      He's a link for the DVD. http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
      of course the torrent sites have it also

      of course the torrent sites have it also

      • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:28:55 PM

        Thanks, I'll watch it again tonight!

      • Posted By: liltimmy @ 06/27/2008 12:27:49 PM

        ooops! LOL

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/27/2008 12:28:31 PM

    Also, an untapped source of energy is the millions of broken promises by candidates for office since the beginning of our democracy. "Read my lips, no new taxes" alone, a promise made by Bush number one, would fuel the trucking industry for two months all by itself. You can just call OPEC today and tell them to cancel that last order and look for another customer. I am not charging for this. Use this free fuel at your leisure.

  • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:27:18 PM

    Get your bike, horse and buggy ready now, before you guzzle all the gas left in the world.

  • Posted By: chuck kolstad @ 06/27/2008 12:24:30 PM

    I remember Dr. No and I remember Jimmy's windfall profits tax; like it was yesterday! I also remember a presidential canditates ecret plan to end the war!

  • Posted By: ajironworks4usa @ 06/27/2008 12:23:36 PM

    BIO ALGAE FUEL WILL USE THE SAME CURRENT FUELING INFRUSTRUCTURE , MAKING IT THE CHOICE FOR DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE OF THE LEAST NEED FOR INFRUSTRUCTURE CHAGE , PLUS IT USES THE SAME ENGINE MECHANICS WE HAVE IN PLACE TODAY .
    THIS ALL IN ADDITION TOO ITS MULTI-USE BENEFITS , IS WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS TO FOCUS ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/27/2008 12:23:32 PM

    The second best source of hot air is found on these blogs. Just print them out and throw them into the furnace with the rest of the political blovia.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 06/27/2008 12:19:36 PM

    There is enough hot air in Washington, D.C., to run every power plant in the country. Just hook the hot air hoses to the capitol building and everywhere that the elected officials and bureaucrats bloviate and pipe that air into the steam generating plants and, voila, no more coal fired power plants.

  • Posted By: Lakeman29 @ 06/27/2008 10:38:31 AM

    All you children for OSAMA: You call A TRUE HERO a war monger. But yet McCain knows the horrors of war FIRSTHAND (unlike all you little children and your hero OSAMA). And you call him a facist and use hateful terms to anyone that disagrees with you, EVEN THOUGH YOU OFFER NOS OSLUTIONS. I OWN a company that designs and manufactures the most technologically advances 5+ axis grinding machines in the world. I must determine how to make the money to support the wages/benefits of approx 100 families. We are intimately involved with MANY alternattive energy companies in the development of their wind turnbines and windmills by producing the grinding equipment to machine the incredibly large BEARING, Shafts, Etc that need incredible precision on this exoctic material parts to make these products. We are DECADES away from having any reliable, cost-effective, energy alternatives. But then all of you "CHILDREN" out there just want want you feel... what the reality is, just what feels correct to you. Fortunately their will be families voting that will put their families first in this next election, and will need to vote for someone that will take action to help families TODAY.
    Doesn't matter You OSAMA supporters don't want to do ANYTHING, but yet have NO PLAN except to wait for some UNKNOWN solution to come forward on its own. NERO FIDDLED WHILE ROME BURNED....

    • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 10:42:35 AM

      Uninformed? Funny how that same technology is what got us to mars. But then again, as a retired contractor from LARC, I wouldn't expect you to know, being you couldn't get the clearance to see toilets I have sat on.

      So, keep being the oil companies little crack head with your partisan name calling, I'm sure they'll send you a check...

      • Posted By: jmin08 @ 06/27/2008 10:47:33 AM

        Yeah! It gets us to Mars at a cost of how many billions? There;s a far cry between when government wants to do something and ignores the cost and the REAL world of filling up your gas tank! B.O. (Pee U) lives in a dream world. Try filling up your tank with "hope"! Get serious!

        • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 10:56:22 AM

          And please enlighten us with your superior knowledge of fuel cells? Sigh, yet more partisan name calling to pacify a lack knowledge and incompetence to the subject.

          Fuel cells release water vapor as a biproduct, which in turn can be routed to a hydrogen generator. Imagine if your car could produce a gallon of fuel for every ten it uses? Again, I look forward to your intellectual response on the subject.

          • Posted By: whala @ 06/27/2008 11:15:37 AM

            OldGamer007, try running a steel manufacturing plant on your fuel cell. Their just barely getting that technology figured out for consumer use, but the questions remain to be answered:
            1) Will it be cost effective?
            2) IF yes to #1, then how long will it take to convert our society to that technology?
            3) The Hydrogen for fuel cells comes from water. Do fuel cells diminish the earths water supply, and what does that do to the Earth's environment? Will a decrease in the Earths water supply decrease it's ability to regulate it's atmosphere? Yes. So what good have we done? We've exchanged one problem for an even worse problem.

            Eben if it turns out to be the right technology, once they have it figured out for consumers, that's only a fraction of our overall fuel consumption. No matter how you slice it, you can't look at a video on you tube, and resonably conclude that the technology is ready to solve all of our energy needs, but being suppressed bu "big oil". Can we please use a little common sense?

            • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 11:36:10 AM

              To answer your questions.

              1) Yes, being we have figured out ways to replace platinum with alloys.

              2) If we were to take the amount of money that has been spent in Iraq, and work with companies like Chevy and Ford, the infrastructure (I believe) could start to be put in in less then a year.

              3) Hydrogen can come from more then just water. (Hydrogen is the element we have an abundance of), Hydrogen can be extracted from novel feed stocks such as landfill gas or anaerobic digester gas from wastewater treatment plants, from biomass technologies, or from hydrogen compounds containing no carbon, such as ammonia or borohydride.

              My point is, rather then spending our energy [no pun intended] on coming up with new technology, rather then digging for the old, we might get somewhere. But we have had this same old stale arguments over oil since the oil embargo of the early 70's, and where has it gotten us?

              • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 12:03:28 PM

                As to your biomass option, I will use the standard anti-nuclear argument. Google "Q Fever Hereford, Texas". You will find that a power generating plant using cow manure as the fuel has been shut down indefinitely because airborne bacteria has intoxicated the entire town. Now, can we store all the cow manure in your yard?

                • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 12:18:04 PM

                  Being one mans manure is another mans fertilizer. Sure why not, my lawn seems to have a few dead spots anyway :)

                  In my state, we are burning trash people throw out, and have yet to have any problems.

              • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 11:59:55 AM

                Please keep your day job. Extracting hydrogen from ammonia? You are a dreamer. How much energy does it take to break up the nitrogen and hydrogen in ammonia to make hydrogen? Too costly for real world applications. You have just lost all credability in this debate.

                • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 12:13:33 PM

                  You asked where to get hydrogen, not how, which are two separate arguments. Put down the weed and stick to what you asked.

            • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 11:40:35 AM

              whala,

              I agree with your first two points. The technology is in its infancy and cannot possibly be affordable. But liberals don't see it that way. They are used to Big Government spending without bounds to achieve a goal. All they need more taxes. If it costs $200,000 for a car, that's OK, as long the goal of clean air is achieved. In the real world, we have to balance cost and benefits. Now, I must correct you on your last point regarding the depletion of water by making hydrogen from water. When the hydrogen is burned in the car, the byproduct is water vapor. Therefore, whatever water is used ot generate hydrogen is returned back to the atmosphere. Now, that should be a concern to environmentalists, as we put more and more water vapor into the atmosphere, we will see more frequent and more violent storms. Katrina will be a baby compared to what is about to come. Hurricane strength and frequency is due to water evaporating from the ocean. If we add to the moisture already coming from the ocean, you will see hurricanes and flooding like you have never seen. Something to think about, OldGamer007.

          • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 11:17:44 AM

            This is too funny to pass up. You are an absolute genius. Scientists have never been able to come up with a machine that produces more energy than it takes in. The laws of thermodynamics do not permit that. Ten times the energy it takes in, huh? LOL. You ought to patent your idea and make trillions.

            • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 11:41:32 AM

              Did I say produce more energy then it takes in? Didn't think so... And being the real numbers require actual math, thought it was better to keep it simple, then confuse simpletons such as yourself.

              Your argument reminds me of the boneheads who told the Wright brother they would never fly... Now the argument is whether the airlines serve peanuts. (Here's your sign)

              • Posted By: Tracker500 @ 06/27/2008 11:54:21 AM

                "your car could produce a gallon of fuel for every ten it uses"

                Your own words. You may be a scientific genius, but don't seem to remember your own words.

                • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 12:10:06 PM

                  Please explain how you think one is a bigger number then ten? (1>10) is not a correct mathematical statement, even for a third grader.

                  "a machine that produces more energy than it takes in", were your words, not mine.

          • Posted By: neocon @ 06/27/2008 11:01:44 AM

            Typical of a DEM party response. If you can't make a valid point call them names and change the subject.

            • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 11:10:45 AM

              Thanks for just proving your lack of knowledge to alternative fuels.

              • Posted By: neocon @ 06/27/2008 11:16:16 AM

                With every post you prove my point.

      • Posted By: Lakeman29 @ 06/27/2008 10:56:44 AM

        You BRAG a good story BUT NO NOTHING OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING OFF. I OWN a company that is A supplier to the Dept Of Defense(we even have our own GSA listing) of very sophistaicated Grinding machines that are used to make advanced weaponary. You couldn't get the clearence to sit on the TOILET SEAT IN MY PLANT!!!!!! I have been in nearly EVERY REPAIR DEPOT BASE in the World, and have equipment producing parts for every major U.S. weapon and space program. Our machines even grind the windsheilds for the space shuttle. YOU ARE IGNORANT AND SELF ABSORBED....

        • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 11:04:32 AM

          Again, fuel cells are over thirty years old. So, keep pasting the same message over and over. it won't make your outdated views any more relevant.

      • Posted By: neocon @ 06/27/2008 10:49:37 AM

        And just look at what it cost to do that. Try taking that technology to a scale that could produce sufficent power to support a town, city, state. Sir, I do have the clearance to "see toilets" (why I would want to I don't know) you have sat on. As I see it your the one calling names.

    • Posted By: j'espere @ 06/27/2008 11:39:05 AM

      Lakeman29: your childish rants are really reflective of the bile and hatred that resides in your being. Calling a Senator of the United States "Osama" sheds light of your true motivations which are racist. I am an independent voter and I am not sure who I will vote for but the bile that comes from some over zealous supporters with mental problems is appalling. However, it's apparent that Repubs are more desperate in their attacks. The world is changing (thank God) and America is already owned by several foreign interests. Soon most business will be owned by foreign investors. While you spend enormous amounts of time writing foolishness on blogs and spewing your hate and anger and trying to convince everyone of your intelligence, the war in Afganistan and Iraq still continues, more American lives are lost and America's deficit grows and our economy is going to the dogs.

  • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:14:54 PM

    Fareed Zakaria is also a good commentator on the global economy and energy situation - read his article, advertized here...

  • Posted By: mluebbe @ 06/27/2008 3:53:36 AM

    McCain has the worst energy policy imaginable.

    It's easy to say energy independence by 2025 when statistics say he probably won't live to see it because of age. We need somebody who can come up with a real plan, the equivilent of the apollo program for energy so that McCain can actually see it in his lifetime.

    Due to the fact that nuclear power was the victim of a uninformed smear campaign, and nuclear engineering programs no longer exist in our universities - everyone who's qualified to do the necessary design work is at or past retirement age. The talent to do this doesn't currently exist.

    Then there's his whole brilliant plan for his 300mil prize. I could offer a trillion dollars for a space shuttle that can survive reentry and is made out of gasoline soaked paper - but that won't get me a solution. We need public and private entities tackling this, and the best brains we've got working full time. Not whimsical prizes for goals set by someone with no science or engineering background.

    Aside from energy, America has a slew of other problems - all of which equally serious. We need real leadership. We need someone to roll up their sleeves with us, and tell us to fight for our future - not in Iraq and Afghanistan but on the streets of Detroit, Pittsburgh, the rest of the rust belt - in every city, every home and take back everything noble about what used to make America great.

    Our country needs to rediscover itself, and reconnect with the indomidable working spirit and optimism that conquered any problem and put men on the moon fifty years ago.

    We need real leadership, not the delusions of some senile old man. We want to save our country, we're willing to struggle, we're willing to fight.

    Mr. Obama, please take office and give us orders, we're waiting for them! This country wants to pull together and be great again!

    • Posted By: Zombiehero @ 06/27/2008 8:19:49 AM

      Optimism? Your showing anything but optimism.
      Your saying that there are no Nuclear Engineers in this country....look at the US Navy.... how many ships are powered with Nuclear reactors? hmmm Technology is better now than ever before. Nuclear is not only safe but clean. Global Warming nuts should love it.

      • Posted By: mluebbe @ 06/27/2008 12:13:10 PM

        Maybe less than 30? The nuclear navy is a small subset of the fleet - also nuclear propulsion designs are entirely different than commercial power generation. Also the navy only provides training to operate and maintain reactors, not design a power plant.

        Don't get me wrong, I'm all for nuclear power - but Im also a realist who has been through engineering education in the United States. Even the power provider in McCain's home state, APS is begging for competant people to replace the baby boomers who are keeping Palo Verde running - and are coming up empty handed. You can still be a realist while being an optimist.

  • Posted By: antipartisan75 @ 06/27/2008 11:41:29 AM

    I really don't have any comments to add regarding our nation's energy policies, as I am neither an expert on energy use nor a scientist working to solve the problems. However, I must ask, is it possible to have an intelligent conversation, whether or not we agree, without resorting to the childish name-calling that seems to be so prevalent in the messages here?? Does calling someone a French-loving liberal or a neocon nazi give more weight to your argument?? Why not start calling each other poo-poo heads? It would be far more fitting given that when you resort to such tactics, you are behaving like those who use such a term; namely preschoolers.
    Furthermore, if all you seek to do is spread right-wing or left-wing propoganda which is clearly on believable if you just arrived from another planet, please keep it to yourself. I would prefer to believe that these discussions are reserved for those of us with some level of intelligence...thanks!

    • Posted By: Ghost13 @ 06/27/2008 12:08:47 PM

      I was trying to address several topics, and it didn't come out too well.
      What makes a fasict or communist is the inability to tolerate ideas that differ from their own. The only difference between a fasict and a communist is the opinion of who should own what.
      Intolerance of different veiwpoints is what fuels this disgusting orgy of political BS. We should be able to discuss our thoughts and views without others trying to censor.

  • Posted By: Lakeman29 @ 06/27/2008 11:13:30 AM

    To Oldgamer007: You don't have any response to my writing, as you were completely obliterated. You obviously can't read, besides being uniformed and ignorant. This was a whole new writing. I feel sorry for you...

    • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/27/2008 12:08:16 PM

      Uniformed???? Wow, you really are quite the speller, Lakeman.

    • Posted By: OldGamer007 @ 06/27/2008 11:20:20 AM

      If you didn't copy and paste the same message over and over again, maybe you would have been taken seriously enough to require a serious response.

  • Posted By: Lakeman29 @ 06/27/2008 11:28:29 AM

    To Oldgmaer007: What a joke you are. you can't even read and comprehend if a posting is a copy or an orignal. You still couldn't get in my plant to sit on a toiloet seat. you make comments and then run and hide from them. You are a joke. I have produced high tech equipment for some of the US most secret weapon systems. Do you even know what GSA is? You don't know jack. And for all you others, Oil is not in shortage. We produce machines for GE, Pratt and Rolls Royce. They have production plans for Jet Engines using Jet Fuel for the next 25 years (set in stone). Beleive me they have BILLIONS riding on this business. They know what the real facts are with oil or they wouldn't be making this kind of investment. Jet production at BOTH Boeing and AIRBUS are at RECORD levels. that SHOULD tell you something. But to you lib's, of course you will just ignore and obviscate will this info...

    • Posted By: bobbyb4n6 @ 06/27/2008 12:07:33 PM

      Nice spelling on "obviscate" and feeble attempt to sound intelligent using big words that can not spell.

      Sure, I will listen to the big corporations that rely on big oil for their livelihood to tell me the truth about oil. That is like listening to the fast food industry about nutrition or asking the tobacco folks about the health concerns of smoking. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid Lakeman, and enjoy Barack Obama. I will continue to serve my country in the military under my new Commander in Chief and be proud to be an American once again under Barack!!!

  • Posted By: liltimmy @ 06/27/2008 12:06:42 PM

    Here we go..... http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html

  • Posted By: geminimom @ 06/27/2008 11:56:43 AM

    Has anyone calculated the $$ loss in gasoline taxes? The government can't stand too many energy-efficient vehicles because it will reduce gasoline consumption and thereby reduce taxes generated by gasoline sales.

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 06/27/2008 12:02:13 PM

      Well, the government might just have to raise taxes on the very rich to make up for it.

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