Posted By: japcrap @ 07/15/2008 5:13:28 PM
Comment: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25679520/
BWAA HA HA Ha
Running on Empty
Can anything save Detroit's automakers?
Jul 3, 2008 | Updated: 3:18 p.m. ET Jul 3, 2008
Discuss
-
-
Posted By: wyomingite @ 07/09/2008 5:25:51 PM
Comment: I have no sympathy for Detroit Automaker MAnagement. They have shipped assembly and manufacture to Canada and Mexico. so much that a Nissan, Toyota, or Honda is more American-made than a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler/Dodge. This is dispicable, never mind the failure of Detroit Management to offer fuel-efficient options. I enjoy supporting American workers (not American CEOs with accounts in the Cayman islands) and do so by buying cars assembled in USA and with a high domestic part content: again: Honda, Toyota, Nissan.
-
Posted By: sillyzoo @ 07/07/2008 1:35:17 PM
Comment: Hey Detroit, look in newsweek issue of July 7th. There is an ad about a company that helps cars to get 100 mpg. Istall thayt baby, include it in the price and bingo those trucks will fly out the door. Why didn't you think of that a long time ago? Then you wouldn;t be in this position. That is why those engineers makes the big bucks, right?
-
Posted By: jath123 @ 07/07/2008 12:33:24 PM
Comment: Man, this Japcrap guy is keeping me in stitches! It reminds me of my sister who swore by her Toyota. Never gave her any problems! And then I reminded her about the time she replaced her alternator. And air conditioner compressor. And fuel pump. As the sweat began to break through her Rising Sun headband, she quickly changed the subject. Bottom line is that anybody who knows anything understands that most cars by most major manufacturers are of fairly high and comparable quality compared to even 10 years ago. If you disagree, then please illustrate your superior knowledge with an argument that contains actual statistics and facts, as well as the words "redneck", "mouthbreather", or "knuckledragger". (Snicker)
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/09/2008 22:44:15
Comment: I'm glad you're feeling entertained. But if you really had any brains instead of spouting generalities, you'd already understand that the issue has already been decided (mostly by americans and their buying choices).
I'll ask the same damn question once again: name me one UNIVERSALLY RECOGNIZED authority anywhere in EXISTENCE that claims that as a whole, american cars are on par with their foreign counterparts (Japanese, German). YOU WON'T FIND ANY..... GET IT CLYDE?
Typical response from domestic apologists. Let me turn this back on you: what proof do you have that this isn't true? I have all the major consumer and car sites backing my point. WHAT THE F**K DO YOU HAVE? Oh... I keep forgetting. You're one of those geniuses that think these sites are paid off by Japan. One big freakin conspiracy right?..... But I have to admit: you're doing a good job entertaining me. Keep up the good work......
-
-
Posted By: yellerjacket @ 07/07/2008 10:25:23 AM
Comment: Dear olderwiser, McCain's opponent's health care plan will bring the federal government's budget to its knees. Universal, government controlled healthcare works decently in a quasi-socialist, highly homogenous country like Sweden, but it would be a disaster (to the tune of $500 billion dollars annually - Obama's own plan's number) in a country with the population, diversity, middle class vibrancy, and economic influence of the U.S. Look at Canada, a country with a fraction of our population, a fraction of our diversity, a fraction of our small-business initiatives, and whose universal healthcare system is in such a state of bogged down, backlogged, ineffiency that thousands upon thousands of Canadians come to the U.S. to receive medical surgeries, procedures, and treatments in short order that would take upwards of two years to receive in Canada after fighting through a long waiting list. Yes, the insurance conglomerates need to be reigned in, but it must be done in accordance with the singlemost responsible factor in the creation of our powerful economy: private business. We cannot fall into the convenient trap of assuming that a larger, richer federal government will solve all of our problems. Signed, youngeroptimistic
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/07/2008 8:54:59 AM
Comment: Hey LARay: Let me get down to your level. Drop dead and die!!.... Feel better?
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/07/2008 8:41:49 AM
Comment: Quit worring, Nins, Mc Cain will not have a chance to finally bring medical coverage in this country to its knees. His opponent will win the presidency and government coddling of the insurance industry will finally cease. Then the insurance people can retrain and find a way to make an honest living instead of sending their children to college on our insurance premiums.
-
Posted By: thrasher32 @ 07/07/2008 13:51:24
Comment: No kidding. Good to see I'm not the only one to recognize that McCain doesn't have a prayer of winning this election. I honestly don't know why he's even wasting his time. Bush killed the Republican Devolution. At least he was good for something.
-
-
Posted By: archmsu @ 07/07/2008 1:04:52 AM
Comment: They brought this on themselves........................There hasn't been any really forward thinking since Henry Ford's time. I just hope the Federal governement doesn't step in and bail them out like they did the airline industry, we all know how that's turning out! But the real problem here is that they are publicly traded companies, and therefore the leaders will always be driven by profit. Living for today instead of the future. Besides, American cars suck! Let these companies die off!
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/07/2008 12:35:39 AM
Comment: Regarding my last post -- sorry, a better link would have been
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/general-motors -
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/07/2008 12:25:56 AM
Comment: This article is depressing:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/general-motors/5
GM's bad management is live on display, in all its 3-D cringe-worthiness.
Rick Wagoner is comparing the Chevy Volt to the Apollo program, when in fact the Bataan Death March would be more appropriate.
Wagoner's analogy is wildly off-base. NASA had as much money as needed to make less than ten of its final product. It had the Mercury and Gemini programs to practice. GM has to make the Volt work the first time for everyone, every time, for years, and in unforseen conditions. It has to develop a nationwide base of trained servicepeople. It has to make the car CHEAP or no one will buy it.
Whereas Wagoner should be apologizing profusely for not having started the Volt program five years ago, instead he and others supply an endless stream of soul-crushing motivational speeches. The real brunt of this failure is being borne by the engineers, who admit, "???We???re counting on home runs every single time, and quite frankly, we???re hitting doubles right now." It's not the engineers' fault!
The right way to have gotten the Volt off the ground would have been to commit to its success years ago, and make those little successes that finally add up. What management wants now is a Hail Mary to cover for their previous hubris and laziness.
For comic relief, check out Bob Lutz. He seems to be the kind of guy who would appreciate a Harley-edition F-150. Unfortunately, he's also GM's vice chairman. -
Posted By: Nins @ 07/06/2008 11:22:21 PM
Comment: Did you know that if McCain is elected you will have to pay income tax on the value of the medical insurance that your employer gives you? Worse still, he is offering a tax break for people who pay their own insurance, BUT only $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families.
Let's say you have a family of four. Your insurance policy costs would be at least $1,500-2,500 per month under a self-pay plan, which cost more than employer group plans. So, you pay $18,000 -$30,000 per year for insurance, and you get to deduct only $5,000 of that. If you paid $25,000 for you insurance, you would be out of pocket $20,000 per year. This is FAR WORSE than the current system, where if you are self employed you can deduct 100% of you medical insurance costs.
So, if you're not self employed, you would stick with your Employer's plan. Employer plans for a family of four have a value of $900-$1,500 per month totaling 10,800-$18,000 per year. Surprise! On April 15th, you owe tax on all of that as INCOME to you. Say your bracket is 25%, and the value of your Employer medical plan is $14,000. You will OWE THE IRS an additional $3,500, and that's ON TOP of whatever monthly premium you already pay to your employer for your insurance.
Many analysts say that McCain's new rules would encourage employers to stop offering health benefits. If that happened, then far fewer Americans would be insured than are insured today, because what family of four can afford $18,000-$30,000 out of pocket per year for self-pay health insurance?
Furthermore, McCain's plan does not require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions of people who self-pay their insurance. People under employer group plans have all of their pre-existing conditions covered. This is a hugely unfair aspect of the current system. Insurance companies can afford to cover the pre-existing conditions of the much larger pool of people with group insurance, but they refuse to pay the pre-existing conditions on the smaller pool of self-pay customers. They have been allowed to price gouge the self-pay customers, which is a form of market manipulation that should be illegal.
So let's say one of your kids had diabetes and you have high blood pressure, then your employer stops offering insurance. You now have to buy your own, but you and your child are INELIGIBLE due to pre-existing conditions. Oh, yeah, they will let you buy the insurance, but you can't use it for any pre-existing condition until you have paid on time every month for two years. And you know what happens at one year and 11 months? You get a letter saying your policy has been cancelled. I have many patients this has happened to.
McCain's plan SUCKS.
It does nothing to help middle class working Americans afford or obtain medical insurance. In fact, it makes the current system WORSE. -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/06/2008 9:59:12 PM
Comment: WOW. To my (pleasant) dismay, 99% of the bloggers recognize that american made junk is still junk. Big thumbs up.
However, I don't agree with the statement "umngn300 and donthomasino are to be commended for their patriotism, even if what they said doesn't make any sense." ????? It's the same mindless prattle that got Vincent Chin murdered (look it up).-
Posted By: jath123 @ 07/07/2008 12:39:55
Comment: Actually I did look up Vincent Chin (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html). It was a tragedy. Equally tragic is the stupidity that Mr. Chin exhibited when he assaulted the man who ultimately killed him. Yes, Mr. Japcrap, Mr. Chin turned an argument into a physical confrontation. Seems like the kind of thing an angry little man like you might do. Is all this anger compensating for something?
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/09/2008 22:50:35
Comment: Yeah. that it wasn't you instead of Chin that bit the bullet. KEEP BURNING THOSE CROSSES ZEKE.
-
-
Posted By: LARay @ 07/06/2008 23:55:02
Comment: I read the comments for this article with interest and usually ignore agitators. But you're an idiot.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/07/2008 08:56:54
Comment: Very intelligent remark. Typical knuckle dragging mouthbreather. Say hello to your wife (aka your sister) for me ....moron!!
-
-
-
Posted By: Chaotician @ 07/06/2008 9:07:48 PM
Comment: What's the big deal? The Gas we use comes from overseas, most of our consumer buying is for foreign made goods, the only thing we produce is suckers to buy all this junk... and of course we excel at creating Christian Preacher to extract any remaining monies we marketing trafets might still have!
-
Posted By: TheVigil @ 07/06/2008 2:21:46 PM
Comment: Detroit will either have to create fuel-efficient vehicles or topple completely, but a lot of the blame for this can also be attributed to the American buying public, who snapped up massive, over-heavy trucks and SUVs for years at the beginning of this decade before the price of oil started to rise.
And this is the way it should be. America's selfish appetite for gas-guzzling monsters has damaged our environment horribly and contributed to health problems for millions, and will only continue to do so in the coming decades.
People can call me anti-American all they want, and I don't give a rat's ass about their knee-jerk, ignorant, motor-show patriotism. I woke up this morning with my hands blue from breathing problems caused by smoke from the California wildfires, which have been horrendously exascerbated in recent years by environmental damage. I don't care if people post 1000 "you can't blame CO2 emissions for that, wildfires are a natural disaster", because the extent of the wildfires and floods this year has been anything but natural.
Wake up and realize that your NASCAR-driven *** culture is starting to destroy people's health and lives, you idiot motorhead shits. -
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/06/2008 2:19:48 PM
Comment: Well, the vigil, it looks like your language turned about as blue as you did. Got your message. Thanks for not wishing that we'd all slip down in our own vomit. Anyway, I know you didn't mean me. I never drive Detroit junk, nor anything that gets drunk on gasoline.
-
Posted By: TheVigil @ 07/06/2008 14:31:38
Comment: I apologize for that. Blue hands and choking tend to bring out the worst in me, and no, my message wasn't intended at you at all. I've read many of your posts and you definitely think before you speak (which I should have done on my recent posts). My message was intended squarely at those who wave American regalia so fervently and vituperatively that they don't seem to care if the flag flies over a dead planet or not. I personally have too much respect for my flag to see it flying over a messed-up planet as a symbol of the arrogance and pride of a culture that wouldn't change.
I don't hate the vast majority of my countrymen. I regularly read up on our Constitution and try my best to understand its principles, which are tremendously wise. And I love the green sectors of American industry, I love American inventiveness, I love our history, I love a tremendous number of things about this country. But I don't love a lot of the stupidity and selfishness (which frequently go together) that I see, and the contempt that those who are stupid and selfish slather all over those who are genuinely trying to make a difference. The knee-jerk patriots have got to go.
I do apologize for my language, however.
-
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/06/2008 2:16:24 PM
Comment: If it's a Toyota and it's made over here, then it's foreign made. Same as Ford manufacturing Fords in a foreign country are American made. All in the design, planning and management. Junk in, junk out.
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/06/2008 15:25:34
Comment: olderwiser -
If that's how you want to see it, fine with me. I agree with you that a car is worth less if it's made by American management, wherever it's made.
However, if "buy American" is meant to keep jobs in America, then at least a California Toyota did something to keep the American middle class afloat.
-
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/06/2008 1:11:14 PM
Comment: umngn300 and donthomasino are to be commended for their patriotism, even if what they said doesn't make any sense.
Their "American" cars are full of foreign parts, so they have no right to be smug about being real Americans. Maybe they'd like to know that, my 12-year old Toyota (running great! 37 MPG!) was built in California.
I am 100% in favor of keeping American jobs whenever and wherever possible. However, it is entirely the fault of American auto execs that the Big Three bet against serious development of energy-efficient SUVs. When gas prices changed, they were caught flat-footed and out of options. A brain-damaged monkey masturbating non-stop would have performed as well.
They inherited world leadership in their industry -- an industry synonymous with America, and lost it in less than a generation.
My dad listened to Lee Iacocca to buy American, when Chrysler was last in trouble. The result? Our K-car *** the bed after 85K miles, but not before the door handles fell off.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.-
Posted By: LARay @ 07/06/2008 23:43:52
Comment: I live in California but my Dad is a retired autoworker. I have a 12-year old GMC pickup with 170K miles and never had a problem. (I know, it's a gas guzzler but my work requires a truck) My wife has a Nissan Maxima that has had tons of problems . There are good and bad examples on both sides.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/07/2008 09:01:02
Comment: I read the comments for this article with interest and usually ignore GM apologists. But you're an idiot.
-
-
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/06/2008 10:38:39 AM
Comment: Clint Eastwood's unforgettable quote in the movie, "Unforgiven", was, "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." Well, deserve's got everything to do with the demise of the Detroit auto industry. They asked for it and they deserve it. I am amazed at how long they survived. Some of it was advertising to convince Americans to "Buy American". That's kind of like voting for a presidential candidate simply because he wears an American flag lapel pin. You get what you deserve when you buy crap like that. Cars and presidents. Good luck.
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/06/2008 10:33:43 AM
Comment: Not to mention Detroit's efforts to make you buy excessive amounts of fuel to run their products. It's a madness that I have never been able to fathom. It's as if the owners of these places who make our cars own oil wells or gas stations or something. It just doesn't make any sense. They also constantly lobby congress to avoid mandates to reduce gas mileage.
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/06/2008 10:30:26 AM
Comment: The difference between our cars and the cars from overseas is the American CEO. The cars overseas are made with the idea that excellence in manufacture and a well designed program to keep the cars properly maintained is good business which can continue far into the future.
The cars made in Detroit are made principally to raise the value of the CEO's bonuses and stock options. After all is said and done, the foreign car runs better and is better maintained in a well run system and the Detroitmobile starts falling apart and leaking fluids before the buyer can even finish paying off the car loan. I don't know what can be done about it, except to avoid these rattletraps and buy something decent from Japan or Germany to drive.-
Posted By: jath123 @ 07/07/2008 12:19:26
Comment: If by "German" you mean a Mexican-made Volkswagen, then by all means enjoy your purchase and enjoy the repair bills. Or maybe you mean a high quality BMW made in South Carolina? I was thinking maybe a good "Japanese" car could be one assembled in Ohio, and that one of the best GM Pontiacs is the Vibe,assembled in California at a Toyota plant. My point is that throwing around nationalities with regard to car quality has become pretty pointless these days. It is more meaningful to look at the quality of the individual models and buy based on that. For example, the Chevy Malibu is very high quality, as is every Cadillac and almost all Buicks. By contrast, a Mercedes can be one of the most expensive cars to own because of mechanical unreliability.
-
Posted By: mrsavizdrav @ 07/07/2008 14:22:55
Comment: Finally a smart comment.
-
-
-
Posted By: Bass Pro @ 07/06/2008 9:18:53 AM
Comment: The only thing that will save Detroit is to make a car comparable to the Toyota or Nissan or Honda . Why would one want to buy a car with a poor maintenance record and inferior paint job? We are focused on gas prices when we should be thinking about replacement values and high maintenance cost. A car should be in good shape even after 100k miles. unfortunitly american cars peter out well before that. It's considered anti-american not to buy American. Isn't it just as anti-american to manufactor a car that is inferior?
-
Posted By: BrownFoxNine @ 07/06/2008 8:07:52 AM
Comment: Ouch! $123 to fill up and 12MPG? Sorry dude, I love Harley Davidson and all (ride mine pretty much every day now) BUT, that thing would HAVE to go. www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com
-
Posted By: Annuit @ 07/06/2008 3:56:29 AM
Comment: There is a kind of hierachy of industries. Raw materials, agriculture, manufacturing. The higher up the bulk of a country's economy is on the hierarchy is a good indicator of how powerful it is. All goods are not made equal. A million dollar's worth of heavy manufactured goods are worth considerably more, in strategic terms, than a million's worth of grain. A nation with a powerful industrial sector, even if lacking agricultural self-sufficiency, need not fear one with extensive agriculture but no manufacturing. This is true even in today's alleged information economy. Weapons still must be actually made to be effective; it is not sufficient to simply have great designs for weapons. The decline of the American auto industry, and manufacturing base in general, are part of a long-term trend by which this country is being reduced to a "colonial" relation with the actual great powers, i.e., a supplier of raw materials, food, and other low-value-added goods. That American automakers will in all probability never again play the role they did in World War 2 indicates that for several decades they have been run by what must be the stupidest people in the whole world. This failure implicates us all. *We* have got to be the stupidest people in the whole world. If we're told, for instance, that GM and Ford suffer from a bad regulatory environment, or if their problems stem from the retrogressive American health care and pension systems, just remember who created those systems: other Americans.
-
Posted By: schlang @ 07/06/2008 1:08:44 AM
Comment: When ever you read blogs Anywhere, remember that you never know who is really posting ( His socialist ways extend to his control of the media and his attempt to brainwash America):
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/17/obama-boys-lets-hire-400-bloggers-to-make-nicey-with-those-***/ -
Posted By: schlang @ 07/06/2008 1:07:35 AM
Comment: http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/17/obama-boys-lets-hire-400-bloggers-to-make-nicey-with-those-***/
-
Posted By: schlang @ 07/06/2008 1:06:55 AM
Comment: http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/17/obama-boys-lets-hire-400-bloggers-to-make-nicey-with-those-***/
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 8:58:56 PM
Comment: For eight years now, the administration has been selling world wide commerce to the American people while sending jobs overseas. There is no reason not to send our car manufacture overseas now, because the foreign makes are also much cheaper and is of much higher quality than ours. We quit buying Detroit junk years ago. That crap would literally fall apart on the highway and we finally caught on.
-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 8:55:20 PM
Comment: Leave them alone and let them go broke. They've been selling consumptive junk for decades while urging patriotism in buying American cars while the best cars in the world are made by Japan and Germany. Detroit asked to fail and the day has finally come. Good riddance.
-
Posted By: jlmealer @ 07/05/2008 3:24:20 AM
Comment: This plan will save Detroit and Ohio factories as many new MFG firms are headed there under McCain's 3R!
JOHN McCAIN???S 3R ECONOMIC PLAN 2008
Abbreviated version
Progressive Republican Candidate John McCain comes through for America with his 3R economic plan. In the persona of Theodore Roosevelt, McCain???s plan just makes sense.
FIRST , keep in mind that to drop the fuel tax, the local gov???ts would crash. We must use the 3R to replace taxes lost from replaced fuel through green energy (Yes, we have it ready to go!)
www.betterconstructed.com
1. RETHINK: America must see globally on what America is capable of in our current state of technology, engineering and meet the demands that face the world.
Private Sector framework is in place and current laws allow the 3R to happen. The Progressive attitude of John McCain to get things done by crossing party lines will resurrect America.
2. REFORM: The American people must demand higher quality products and less restricted trade routes for Made in USA components. We will lead the way of MFG again!
The USA will reform its dead manufacturing base
3. REINVENT: America and Americans must reinvent themselves to reach and maintain these standards and by sheer American ingenuity, control the world???s marketplace in the competitive manner, as the USA has always been proud to be #1.
NUTS AND BOLTS of the plan are simple.
Billions of savings equates to millions of lost tax revenue from energy companies. The US needs a separate tax revenue source before we can move away from fossil fuels.
McCain 3R solution.
McCain???s 3R is about technical, closely monitored and rapid hands on training from pros to create new pros. Thousands of currently-job-displaced ???once leaders in the manufacturing arena??? will be asked to train and play instructor rolls in the 3R plan. Paid, of course, as these new leaders will help create a whole new style of prosperous America. A massive restructure providing thousands New American MFG means millions of new jobs for infrastructure alone.
We have the buildings, needs and infrastructure to do this!
New jobs is the mainstay for Creating a new guard for Social Security.
This is the new place for financial speculators to invest!
McCain???s Progressive nature embodies Theodore Roosevelt more than any US presidential candidate in history since the original Rough Rider blazed the greatest era of growth in America.
We need John McCain to lead our nation with the same type of change.
www.betterconstructed.com
THIS DRAFT COURTESY OF:
John Lewis Mealer,
Founding President of Mealer Companies
www.betterconstructed.com (original promotional site)
www.mealercompanies.com (blank)
www.mealercompanes.tv (blank)-
Posted By: thrasher32 @ 07/07/2008 13:47:40
Comment: There's only one problem with the McCain plan: McCain can't win this election.
-
Posted By: jath123 @ 07/07/2008 12:22:30
Comment: And McCain says that Obama is too vague? Holy cow. What a bunch of vapid non-substance. 3R - Republican Rhetorical Rubbish.
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/06/2008 17:22:39
Comment: Hello, McCain campaign spammer! Good day to you, too!
I thought only liberals were capable of new-age blather. Thanks for proving me wrong.
Translations of your various points:
1. RETHINK - We will meditate for four years. We will not actually do anything. John McCain's winning personality will allow him to schmooze across party lines like never before. For what purpose, though, is unclear.
2. REFORM - Apparently, John McCain will instantaneously transform the American public into better-informed consumers. Maybe he'll spring for subscriptions to Consumer Reports for every registered voter. Also, the "dead manufacturing base" will be revitalized by a slew of additional deregulation, which has been working great for the past 25 years. Lastly, we'll start trade wars. Lobbyists rejoice!
3. REINVENT - Sheer American ingenuity, which in the past figured out how to outsource, will start pulling rabbits out of hats on behalf of the American public. But only if McCain is elected. If anyone else gets there first, sheer American ingenuity will stay home and sulk.
Oh, and this line:
"This is the new place for financial speculators to invest!"
Can I have some snake oil, too?
-
-
Posted By: emtyn1 @ 07/04/2008 11:45:08 AM
Comment: In a word, "No." The Detroit auto makers haven't got the sense they were born with. I remember when gas prices went up in the late '70s, in the '80s. The writing was on the wall that energy-efficient cars were the way to go. What did Detroit do? They come up with the SUV gas guzzlers. It was just a matter of time before the Middle East socked it to us again. Honda saw the way the wind was blowing and now it's laughing all the way to the bank. I kinda admired Lee Iaccoca (?) when he got the govmt to bail out Chrysler. Wonder how many people who remember that want to bail the Detroit manufacturers out again. Maybe GM needs to just bite the dust and a NEW U.S. auto industry emerge. Unfortunately, the U.S. auto worker will go down with Detroit. I say the people of Detroit need to move to tight labor markets and/or retrain. There is life beyond Detroit. There are lots of places in this country where they are importing workers from abroad.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/04/2008 8:22:17 AM
Comment: "BYE AMERICAN" OR MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY.............BWAAAA HA HA
-
Posted By: landonmkelsey @ 07/04/2008 7:59:52 AM
Comment: my 2002 VW diesel Jetta gets 47 miles per gallon. It is very swift!
Ford was bragging about a hybrid that gets 35.
I ask Toyota Prius owners and they get worse mileage than I do!
The fuel crunch is waking people up slowly! -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/04/2008 7:47:20 AM
Comment: Half the battle are these mind numbing attitudes from these "bye american" bozos who defend the domestics no matter how crappy their product. Maybe they're too stupid to spend their money wisely but me: I work too freakin hard for my money and I'll be damned if I don't speand it on the BEST AVAILABLE PRODUCT for price. If american cars were on par with the asians as a whole and prices were comparable, I'd BUY AMERICAN in a heartbeat. Of course we know the american cars are nowhere near the foreign ones.
-
Posted By: GracieII @ 07/04/2008 2:44:01 AM
Comment: Have the board of directors been living in caves for the last ten or so years? Have they not seen the trend to smaller, more gas efficient and eco friendly cars? Am I supposed to feel sorry for them and feel good about the government bailout that is inevitable? The really sad part is the workers are the ones who get screwed and the board gets fat pensions.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:58:32 PM
Comment: And finally: My opinion of the domestics has absolutely nothing to do with the american auto worker. All the foreign brands like Honda and Toyota have plants in the US that roll out cars built BY AMERICANS (Of course this is something the "bye american" fascists don't like to talk about.) and they do a terrific job at it.
NO. Its the idiots that run the company that are responsible for the mess that they're in. If you replaced all of GM's management with that of Toyotas, GM would be cranking out superior cars like the foreign brands. -
Posted By: bmharki @ 07/03/2008 11:47:45 PM
Comment: I wish everyone would find a copy of "WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR" this is a mind opening movie..
I truly believe the auto industry and oil industry and our government like just how things are and have no plan to get rid of the Combustion engine.They would be the loser then....
A GM AUTOWORKER -
Posted By: bmharki @ 07/03/2008 11:46:08 PM
Comment: I wish everyone would find a copy of "WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR" this is a mind opening movie..
I truly believe the auto industry and oil industry and our government like just how things are and have no plan to get rid of the Combustion engine.They would be the loser then....
A GM AUTOWORKER -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:41:19 PM
Comment: Hey umngn300: I hear that if you mix vinegar with bleach, you can get those nasty stains out of your robes after the Klan meeting breaks up. Keeps the hoods nice and "white" which I know is very important to you.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:36:34 PM
Comment: Right... I forgot. knuckle draggers like you think Consumer Reports is paid off by Japan. Gotcha.
It;s great how you answered my questions intelligently and put me in my place..... BWAAAA HA HA. -
Posted By: umngn300 @ 07/03/2008 11:31:48 PM
Comment: Oh, sorry. I forgot you read consumer reports. And I wasted all that time studying mechanical engineering and working in manifacturing plants.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:29:56 PM
Comment: Hey: umngn300,
Concerning "naturalized" Americans: Burn any good crosses lately? -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:23:05 PM
Comment: Just for you "bye american" mouth breathers out there:
I have owned the following american turdmobiles: Cutlass supreme, Skylark, Ford Econoline Van, Camaro, LeBaron. All perfect examples of the domestics skillsets.
Not one day went by where each of these cars made me feel like I was in Jed Clampetts car. -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:18:53 PM
Comment: Wow! With such well thought out reasoning like yours, there's no reason why GM shouldn't hire you to solve their crappy situation. How can I argue with your sterling facts, statistics and logic?
Again: name a universally recognized authority that states american cars as a whole are on par with the asians or Germans..... I think I hear crickets in the background.... -
Posted By: umngn300 @ 07/03/2008 11:15:18 PM
Comment: Anyone who thinks the domestic automakers are not building quality cars doesn't know sh*t about engineering and manufacturing. More likely trying to make yourselves feel better about your own foreign cars and selling out American workers and the American economy. Just ignorant comments from Wall Street descendants of the Vichy French or "naturalized" Americans here to milk our economy and bad-mouth us. Or maybe you're just from California. Don't worry -- the global economy will trickle up to you too eventually.
-
Posted By: TheVigil @ 07/06/2008 14:59:13
Comment: I'm a Californian. I also happen to know that my state contributes a tremendous amount of money to federal programs used in a lot of other states where people routinely bad-mouth and mock us.
Maybe instead of bitching, hating the French, hating Wall Street, and hating us, you could go try to get whatever state you're living in to be financially solvent and out of the economic gutter, so we don't have to divert any more of the resources from our increasingly clean-energy-fueled, educated, vibrant economy into propping up a bunch of ignorant people that jeer, talk trash, and treat us like ***?-
Posted By: umngn300 @ 07/06/2008 21:18:45
Comment: Vigil, my point was that The Big Three do manufacturer good, quality automobiles that are very competitive to any foreign automobile. And the domestic content of those vehicles is generally higer (than foreign models that arte assembled here). Sure some are gas gozzlers and maybe management isn't always making great decisions. But there are good, fuel efficient domestic models. I can't control wasteful spending by government at any level, however, I can do my part and drive an American car. My comment about California was a bit of a cheap shot, but it is the state with the highest percentage of registered foreign cars. I also believe we need domestic manufacturing and global economics will evetually kill the American middle class. This isn't the right forum, but we will never be able to compete with a world-wide labor pool. By the way, what kind of car do you drive?
-
-
-
Posted By: umngn300 @ 07/03/2008 11:15:01 PM
Comment: Anyone who thinks the domestic automakers are not building quality cars doesn't know sh*t about engineering and manufacturing. More likely trying to make yourselves feel better about your own foreign cars and selling out American workers and the American economy. Just ignorant comments from Wall Street descendants of the Vichy French or "naturalized" Americans here to milk our economy and bad-mouth us. Or maybe you're just from California. Don't worry -- the global economy will trickle up to you too eventually.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:08:36 PM
Comment: Last time I checked Toyata made 4X4s and Land cruisers. Yet they don't seem to be doing too bad with $4.00 gasoline. Oh. That's right: they didn't put all their eggs in one basket like some other dumb *** companies....Bwaaaa Ha Ha
-
Posted By: jath123 @ 07/07/2008 12:26:29
Comment: GM outsold Toyota again last month. Hahahaha
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/09/2008 23:03:25
Comment: But their product is still crap. Thank God for "patriots" like you to buy their "cars"... BWAA HA HA HA.
-
-
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:04:37 PM
Comment: Hey donthomasino: even if Detroit was building what the public wanted, you telling me that they didn't have the wherewithall to cover their asses and build cars for the other side of the spectrum? What did they think that oil is unlimited? This is why they're in the crapper like they are.
Who said anything about Japanese? But while we're talking about them: why are they beating the domestics like a drum?After all, its "americans" that are buying the cars isn't it? -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 11:00:10 PM
Comment: AHA.. There you are. I thought you were as extinct as the dinosaurs. Tell you what: you keep driving the shitmobiles that you so proudly defend and we'll try cars that won't break down every few months.
Hey Einstein: show me where there is organization (consumer reports, MSN auto, Edmunds) that states american cars are on par with asian ones (and don't give me 1 or 2 models. I'm talking in general). HA HA HA you won't find any. -
Posted By: donthomasino @ 07/03/2008 10:50:06 PM
Comment: Detroit has been making what the public has been buying. The public wanted big gas guzzlers, so that's what Detroit has been building, problem is, now that oil is so expensive, the public has suddenly changed it's mind and Detroit can't turn it around fast enough. And as for all the morons who think foreign cars are better built, they must not have bought a new car since about 1988. With the exception of Chrysler, the domestic automakers build vehicles of comparable quality to most all the foreign companies. Besides, as long as I live in America, I will drive cars made by American companies. If there are some that like Japanese cars so much, then why not just go ahead and move to Japan?
-
Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/05/2008 20:10:51
Comment: donthomasino - How typical of the "my country, love it or leave it" crowd - blind loyalty doesn't make you a better American, it just makes you blind.
The hole in your logic is that since it is Americans who are buying more foreign cars than domestic cars, Detroit hasn't been giving the American public what it wants - if it was, we would be buying more American cars.
No, Detroit got greedy and lazy, gambled on cheap oil, and lost. They steadfastly refused to agree to higher gas mileage standards, and only grudgingly dealt with better quality and better service when the Japanese beat their pants off in those areas. Without foreign competition pushing them, domestic cars would be even crummier than they are.
Detroit automakers have proven themselves to be less interested in what America needs, and more interested in their own profits. They don't deserve a bailout - they got themselves into this mess, let them get themselves out.
The sad part will be the employees who will lose their pensions, but it has always rankled just a bit that a high school dropout on the assemly line could make more money, have better benefits, and a better pension than I do after 28+ years as a registered nurse.-
Posted By: TheVigil @ 07/06/2008 16:14:02
Comment: Yeah. Really good post.
The heavy unionization of the American auto industry seemed like a good idea at the time, but it may have priced them out of global competition. And for some reason, even though this country produces some of the world's top engineering talent and America has a reputation for global inventiveness, our auto industry has been unable to produce vehicles that can match the fuel-efficiency or long-term durability of foreign automakers, particularly Japan (who we have many times the industrial capacity and resources of).
I almost bought a used Ford Countour once. I was all set to - it was a beautiful car - but then I started doing research online and found a whole host of people writing about how the car began to turn into a money trap at roughly the same mileage I was about to purchase it at. Now, I'll never know if the Contour would have been a good car for me or not, but I do know that after reading reviews on and purchasing a used Nissan Sentra, it's not needed one. major. mechanical. repair since I bought it with over 100,000 miles on it in 2003. As a matter of fact, it recently sat in moist weather unused for about two months, and still *turned on* when we put the key in the ignition without needing to be jumpstarted. There's no way to say that's not quality engineering. Detroit sowed the field it's currently reaping.
-
-
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 10:08:51 PM
Comment: Hey: can we hear from any of those "bye american" bozos concerning this? Should we still "bye american" no matter the quality of the vehicle? Let's hear your "reasoning".
I remember years ago these bozos were pretty vocal.
Oh sorry. I just heard bozo passed away..... -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 10:04:34 PM
Comment: Sorry. What I meant was: its only because of asians cranking out quality cars that we're not driving blocks of turds on 4 wheels
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 10:04:23 PM
Comment: All comments are right on point. The dimwits running the domestic automakers were swimming in money when gas was cheap and SUVs and trucks were king. What did they do with all this loot? Why the same thing they've been doing for the last 40 years: pocket the money and crank out cars only the most ignorant "BYE American" (sic) morons would want.
-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 9:53:53 PM
Comment: Does anyone truly believe that if not for the asian carmakers, we'd still be driving Cutlass Supremes and Fairmonts? The asians forced the big 3 to at least give some thought (albeit very litle) to some sembelnce of quality and reliability. Unreal.
Here we are 30 years after asian cars were starting to embarras the americans ones and YET the domestics STILL cannot get it right. -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 9:48:57 PM
Comment: All comments are right on point. The dimwits running the domestic automakers were swimming in money when gas was cheap and SUVs and trucks were king. What did they do with all this loot? Why the same thing they've been doing for the last 40 years: pocket the money and crank out cars only the most ignorant "BYE American" (sic) morons would want.
-
Posted By: ronaldr321 @ 07/03/2008 9:32:56 PM
Comment: Realize that most all of the "foreign" automakers such as Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Kia, have "domestic" manufacturing with American workers. There is something wrong with a system that pays workers 90% of their pay for doing NOTHING.
-
Posted By: sludged @ 07/03/2008 9:22:30 PM
Comment: Please forgive the spelling errors, it was my own version of Chrysler-think (being in too much of a hurry to produce a quality product). But at least I acknowledge, apologize and try to make amends. ; ).
-
Posted By: sludged @ 07/03/2008 9:16:59 PM
Comment: Google "chrysler" and "sludge" and see just one of many reasons why Chrysler will not recover. Whether they're building cars or trucks, they refuse to stand by their product when a consumer has a problem and this is one of the seldom reported but MAJOR reasons why most consumers will shun ANYTHING from Chrysler. The bottom line is Chrysler disrespected and abused their customers, forget all the other theoretical analyses by the MBA whiz kids. WIthout fudamentals everythnig else is meaningless, the foundation will always be the relationship with the customer. Word gets around mighty fast these days, and when you piss off someone who just spent $25K they tend to tell a few people. This attitude tends to flow from the top down, and the outrageously overpaid Chrysler execs have no-one to blame but themselves. They screwed their consumers and their employees, somethng that's all to familiar these days.
-
Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/03/2008 8:58:28 PM
Comment: "Washington does not have any sympathy for what's happening in Detroit."
Neither do the rest of us. American automakers have been greedy, blind and stupid for too long. They do not deserve a government bailout, and we do not deserve any more greedy, blind and stupid corporations.
Let them get smart and humble so they can adapt and survive, or let them perish, but let them do it on their own; not one penny of my tax dollars needs to go to Detroit.-
Posted By: donthomasino @ 07/03/2008 22:58:03
Comment: The rest of us don't care? There's where you are mistaken, my anti-american pal, there are a great deal of people in this country who DO care about major American industries like Detroit. Thank God the majority of people in this country don't hate it as much as you do or we'd be living in the United States of Japan.
-
Posted By: TheVigil @ 07/06/2008 14:15:26
Comment: As I write this I'm choking from smoke inhalation from the California wildfires, which have more than likely been severely exascerbated by global warming caused by excessive emissions from Detriot and the American auto-buying public's black-hole-like appetite for gasoline. I also suffer from asthma and have since I was a child, which makes me more susceptible to breathing difficulties in general. As I get older it's likely that my life quality will severely deteriorate along with the air due to my asthma, possibly confining me to rooms with expensive air filters or even a hospital bed.
I woke up this morning and my hands were blue from breathing problems caused by smoke inhalation. So to the extent that you and other Americans support buying overpriced, over-heavy, under-mileaged cars, I do *** hate you, with justification. I hope that both you and the American auto industry are punished horridly for the damage you're doing to the environment. Personally, I honestly hope you get hit by a top-heavy American SUV for being too much of a knee-jerk ass-*** patriot to realize people are starting to die from the world's environmental problems, you shitheaded loser.
Why is it fair that you and the other knee-jerk *** patriots get to pollute, causing me to be increasingly confined-
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/07/2008 09:10:10
Comment: knee-jerk ass-*** patriot. Shitheaded loser...... I love it.
-
Posted By: LARay @ 07/06/2008 23:21:58
Comment: Sorry about your health problems, but what's up with all the hostility? Just because someone supports American industry doesn't mean they own a big SUV. There are plenty of foreign model polluters and gas guzzlers. I don't know where you live in California, but most of your pollution problems probably aren't Detroit's fault. Try telling it to your neighbors.
-
-
-
-
Posted By: cindydrake @ 07/03/2008 8:22:13 PM
Comment: We lived through this in the 70s--conservation became the buzzword; automakers made smaller, more fuel-efficient cars. Then in the 80s when gas got cheap again, America said to heck with conservation--so now we want big SUVs. The automakers were responding to their market, giving the customers what they wanted. Now we need to demand fuel efficiency again, and the automakers will, if they want to stay in businesss, give us what we want. Supply and demand, Econ 101.
-
Posted By: jpooch00 @ 07/03/2008 7:59:28 PM
Comment: Maybe they could try putting out a product that is not a grossly overpriced, gas-guzzling piece of junk for a change! That might work. Sadly, I seriously doubt that any of the big three are capable of such a feat though.
-
Posted By: jamestlaing@hotmail.com @ 07/03/2008 7:45:47 PM
Comment: The unions killed Detroit. They have to learn that the era of someone with a grade five education making fifty bucks an hour to turn a bolt is OVER! Anyone who buys a domestic vehicle is a SUCKER and deserves what they get when they lose their warrany coverage after the big three go BANKRUPT.
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/03/2008 6:12:11 PM
Comment: To American auto execs -
Try living like the rest of us for once. Drive your own cars. Get stuck in traffic. Drive 30 miles each way, and never think about vacation or retirement. The soul you save and the company you save might be your own.
Do you really think (like the Escalade commerical says) that we want to live in our cars? If that we true, then there would be no road rage. By the way, all that commercial did was make me think that Escalades probably smell like farts.
I don't want a car that tells me where all the steak restaurants are. That's why we have cell phones and Google. Make cars reliable, safe, and energy efficient, and we'll buy them. Or is the Corolla a failure in your eyes? -
Posted By: ploughman @ 07/03/2008 6:11:51 PM
Comment: So much for laissez-faire economics...While Republicans controlled Congress from 1995-2007, Detroit got its wish for the government not to legislate things like tougher CAFE standards or other measures that'd affect what the companies could sell. As a direct result, they got whipsawed and now may go under because of it. Unless, perhaps, there's a government bailout. Managements at the companies have been shortsighted, overpaid and arrogant.
-
Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 07/03/2008 6:02:23 PM
Comment: I've said it before, and I'll say it again --
UAW, *beg* the Japanese to come here and open plants. The "Big Three" (ha!) are wrecks headed straight for the bottom. You may have to make concessions on benefits, true. But in the bargain you will get management that doesn't have its head up its ass.
A "Harley"-edition F-150??? Are they high? Rather than slapping together trucks that are pimped-out fantasies for auto execs, how about something we can afford to drive? How about fewer DVD players and cupholders, and more MPGs?
Nah -- why change? -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 5:00:21 PM
Comment: I remember a few years ago, I saw an american autoworker holding a sign that said "Bye American".
Thats all you need to know. -
Posted By: japcrap @ 07/03/2008 4:58:47 PM
Comment: Ha Ha Ha. Goodbye crappy american cars.
-
Posted By: Sinis @ 07/03/2008 3:50:36 PM
Comment:
The big 3 automakers have made clear for more than a decade that unless you want to buy a pick-up, SUV or a V8 sports car there is no need for you to stop by their lots. They are reaping what they have sown.
