The Politics of Heroism

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  • Posted By: herbo21k @ 07/04/2008 1:44:23 PM

    Yo! Wait a minute! Isn't it true that McCain graduated last in his class at Annapolis and was the DUMBEST MAN IN THE NAVY? Isn't it true that McCain's flight school training records are sealed, classified or otherwise missing? Isn't it true that McCain was graduated and promoted only because his Father and GrFather were admirals? (not due to personal merit) Is it true or not that McCain's bombing targets over N. Vietnam included schools, hospitals, paddy dikes and a bike factory? McC refuses to discuss his bombing
    targets or his flight records. Just how many bombing raids over N. Vietnam did McC fly in. Is it an act of heroism to drop a bomb from 20k feet in the air on a bike factory? McC is a former POW but otherwise he non-entity with the charima of a floormop. To the 20 and 30 somethings who are key voters in this coming election (I am way passed that) McC is Oldmanriver and Mr. McFossil. His campaign is DOA and he knows it, that is why he has thrown in with the Rove gang.

    • Posted By: Lovly2008 @ 07/05/2008 4:09:00 PM

      Enter Your Comment LOL@floormop, Oldmanriver, Mr. McFossil and a DOA campaign. Poet lover here. This has got to be the greatest thread I've ever witnessed. Keep up the good work folks! Wait till Obama announces Colin Powell as his running mate and watch Bush and Mr. McFossil have a stroke.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 07/04/2008 2:01:06 PM

      Your pitiful. Just another obamamohammed. Uninformed, uninterested in truth, anti-military, chump looking for a handout. And if we want character assassination...HOLD ON. Hussein hangs with the lower rungs of society. He is associated with racists, radicals, terrorists, crooks, and is a U.S. Senator on the down-low. Radio ads featuring Larry Sinclair talking about their love limo rides start in 3 states this weekend and expand to 12 next week. Then comes the T.V. ads. Ain't going away. Hussein better buckle up his burqua.

      NOBAMA!!!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:09:07 AM

    What does Mc Cain the war hero intend to do about inflation?

    • Posted By: willnotvoteobama @ 07/05/2008 1:45:26 PM

      well i know the left has been crying about the bush tax cuts and i'm okay with tax cuts on corperations but i would have some stipulations on them like they have to expand the american job market and not send the jobs over seas that would be one of the stipulations because if you look at it like this the big corps provide jobs and with jobs comes economic life the workers spend money and businesses make money and we all pay taxes the corps would still pay taxes just not 28%more than anyone else the goverment would get the federal taxes from both the employee and thier employer plus property taxes on those big factories and so on its a win win situation i think a fair tax plan would not only simulate the economy but it would allow for the big companies and the small businesses to expand and hire more folks to do the jobs thus bringing in more revnue to keep up our infastructure and keep our military strong !! you know a swell as i do that there are some slack ass people in this country and we need to cut down the hand outs to those peopel and put thier asses to work and let our social programs do what they were intended to do and that is to help the elderly and the sick people that need to be helped there are too many taking advantage of the systems and that includes the illeagle invaders that come here and lock all those benifits in and stay on them thus putting a strain on our social programs !!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:14:25 AM

    Lest I seem biased, I ask the same of Obama. Just what does he intend to do about the war in Iraq? It is not so clear now. We are citizens who need remedies and we can do better than carrying a bunch of dumbassed placards with heroic symbols painted on them, and arguing what is right of wrong with wearing a plastic flag pin on a lapel. We need to know what in the hell these politicians are going to do. They love it when you argue about irrelevant matters so that they don't have to commit themselves to specifics so that you have an opportunity to vote intelligently. I was one of Obama's small time contributors, but when I just heard him say that he was going to change his Iraq war remedy, I stopped. I want to know what he is going to do about that war. If he waffles, then all bets are off.

    • Posted By: willnotvoteobama @ 07/05/2008 1:20:24 PM

      DAMN OLDER WISER SEEMS LIKE WE BOTH MIGHT HAVE TO HOLD OUR NOSE TO CAST A VOTE !! HELL LETS PUT YOU ON THE TICKET I THINK YOU WOULD BE BETTER THAN BOTH OF THEM !!!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:41:26 AM

    What we are calling terrorism in Iraq is simply the chaos which resulted there when we removed the iron hand which had kept the chaos relatively smothered. The sooner we leave, the sooner the parliament will be blown up and the next iron hand will take over. Unfortunately, the next one might be a religious figure instead of one like Saddam, who was more of a cruel realist, the only really qualified leader for a place so steeped in religious extremism. We have literally made a mess that we are incapable of cleaning up. The kindest thing that we can do for those people is to get out of their way while they dig through the rubble and rebuild something that they can live with as peaceably as possible.
    After we leave there, our country needs to be led by someone who can teach us how dangerous it is to misuse such awesome power as we possess. It is not effective as a policing tool. It is only good for our protection. Going to war with Iraq had nothing to do with our protection.It was a unilaterally unjustified aggressive act unworthy of our Democracy. Preemptive war is anathema to our future. We must never do something so foolish as this again or we will quickly find ourselves in the rubble of past civilizations which made the same error.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:30:04 AM

    Whenstarsturnblue, a host of countries are in the hands of one terrorist or another. Saddam Hussein also terrorized some of his own citizens. However, that was not a legitimate reason for us to go there if we exclude all of the other countries similarly situated, as we do. When we leave Iraq, the country will be terrorized by someone again. That is the only way that you can bring order to the insane religious fanatics there. I was already under control before we got there. Democracy is a farce in that place. We are fooling ourselves if we think that we can impose that form of government on that country. It is possibly centuries too early for that culture. It dwells in past events of a thousand years for its tenets. We are literally spitting in the wind there.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:17:50 AM

    Well, starsturnblue, the point is not the 100 years. That only indicates that he will follow the same inconclusive path of Bush. I don't take it literally any more than Mc Cain meant it to be. The point is that the Democratic primary candidates promised to get us out of there forthwith and he intended to stay the course. You can have any number of years you want to fill in for the 100 that he stated. We never belonged there. Had no right to go there. Have no right to stay there for any reason. We invaded Iraq earlier for wrongfully invading Kuwait, a sovereign country. Then, we turned right around and wrongfully invaded Iraq, a sovereign country. We have no right to stay there any more than we had a right to invade there. It was all a lie.

    • Posted By: WhenStarsTurnBlue @ 07/05/2008 11:28:19 AM

      I'll agree with you there. I was furious in 2002 when we went to Iraq. I couldn't believe congress voted for it. And I voted for Democrats for Senate positions in 2006, believing they would get us out of there. Fool me once, shame on me.

      I still want to leave as soon as possible, but I don't feel we have the right to nearly destroy a country and leave it in war conditions. It's our fault the terrorists are there attacking because we were stupid enough to go there in the first place and drag out a war that should have been over with once Saddam was captured and the Iraqi's had a government in place.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:22:18 AM

    It is only in this country that you hear all of the enthusiasm for our activity in Iraq. The rest of the civilized world sees it as an historical hypocrisy of gigantic proportions. The casual way in which our president changes the reason for committing our nation to this folly as one by one each reason fails in its own fraudulent way is a scandal that will render his presidential library as a farcical monument to his stupidity. I can't wait to visit there and listen to the snickers at his exhibits of wartime prowess. All he lacks is an Adolph Hitler mustache to complete the picture.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:58:21 AM

    Barack Obama had the right as a U.S. Senator to go to look at Iraq. He did not. Then, one of his big vote getters was a promise to get us the hell out of Iraq. Now, nominated, he plans to go to Iraq to see if he needs to change his mind. I voted for him principally because he promised to get us the hell out of there. If he goes there and comes back to endorse staying there, then I reserve the right to flush my Obama vote down the toilet.

    • Posted By: WhenStarsTurnBlue @ 07/05/2008 11:13:43 AM

      It doesn't make much sense to me either. Partially, I'm happy he's going because I always thought just leaving without making sure the country wasn't going to fall into terrorist hands or spark a civil war that could re-stablize the middle east was just irresponsible, since we would have an even bigger mess and more dangerous mission to send our troops back to. But on the other hand, if this was his position all along, why didn't he state that in the primaries? Is it because it's too similar to Hillary's and McCain's position on Iraq and he lost his edge?

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:10:23 AM

    Some of us are not what you call party loyalists, leaving the vote open to see what is to be done before casting it into the blindness of political faith. We listen to what is promised to be done and then vote for those things. The war is a travesty, long overdue to end. Farting around in the neighborhoods and making everyone be nice in the midst of our troops, surging, is a waste of our time and resources. It is no better than the temporary appearance of stability in a society ridden with hate between rival religious factions. The image that this will somehow create an orderly country so that we can leave is just as false as the WMD's that we went there in the first place to remove. All that has been removed is the future of our treasury. I will vote for whoever pledges to get us out of there the soonest. But, if Obama promises only fifty years, then I will simply vote for Mc Cain because he will have become a patently unreliable liar.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:07:48 AM

    What does Mc Cain intend to do about ending the War in Iraq besides staying there for a century?

    • Posted By: WhenStarsTurnBlue @ 07/05/2008 11:08:55 AM

      He doesn't want to stay there a century. That's a quote taken out of context when he said we might keep a military base there similar to our presence in Japan and Germany. McCain wants our troops to leave too, he just wants to leave when Iraq is stable so we don't have to go back in a year after terrorists take over from the Iraqi army because they weren't ready.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:03:59 AM

    If going to Iraq before deciding to withdraw or not is necessary, then one needs to go there first before making promises. We are upside down here on our position.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 11:01:56 AM

    I used to say Mc Cain't, but now I reserve the right to say Mc Maybehecantoo. The floor of politics is very slippery and one must maintain a steady stance in order not to slip and fall into the slime from wishy washing the political floor.

  • Posted By: Jacob Freeze @ 07/05/2008 10:44:50 AM

    Clark told the truth, but the miserable little scribbler Eleanor Clift and a few idiots on Fox News don't like it. Boo hoo!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:17:42 AM

    Well, maybe when I go to Iraq and take a look, I might just decide to stay there?? Whoa.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:06:07 AM

    Swing low, sweet chariot, coming for to Kerry me home.
    Kerry was swift boated. Mc Cain will be Kerried just as long as his supporters try to allege the fraudulent qualities of war heroism as qualifications to be a president.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/05/2008 10:02:38 AM

    Well, if you quit trying to aggrandize Mc Cain by his war experiences, then his detractors will quit showing the other side. It does have two sides, you know. Same as Kerry's mistake in trying to capitalize on war. You blow up the uppers and we blow up the downers. Tit for tat.

  • Posted By: Karenn1 @ 07/05/2008 9:47:18 AM

    Tokyo Rose for McCains VP.W.Clark is right and I salute him.

  • Posted By: misterharban @ 07/05/2008 9:43:47 AM

    Being a POW is neither a qualifier or a disqualifier president. It is a part of the sum of a man's life. How a person deals with every situation which confronts him is a part -- a part -- of his makeup. It is clear that the qualities that McCain exhibited during his captivity make his opponents uncomfortable. There can be no other reason for the significant effort that those opponents are making every effort to demean those events. To believe Gen. Clark and his supporters you have to believe that McCain was simply a bumbling idiot who got shot down (which he well may have been) and went along for the ride with his captors (which he clearly did not) ??? that there was nothing about that experience which might help define the character of the man. It is clear, and understandable that McCains opponents can find nothing in his resume which might qualify him to be president. It is equally clear and understandable that McCains supporters can find nothing in the Obama resume which might similarly qualify him to be president. That is politics.

    But it would be nice if Obama supporters had the intellectual honesty to refrain from suggesting that any of Obama???s life experiences have any bearing on his suitability as president as long as they are willing to cavalierly dismiss the possibility that McCain???s experience in Viet Nam is in no way a measure of his suitability to be president.

  • Posted By: sparky716 @ 07/04/2008 2:25:02 PM

    hey Galasso why was it ok for you right wing nuts to pick apart a real hero's service ( John Kerry) in Vietnam but you don't like it when some ons says something about YOUR hero?If it was ok to pick apart John Kerry its ok to pick apart McSames...the shoe is on the other foot and you don't like it do you....

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 07/04/2008 2:50:20 PM

      A Real Hero....he got "swiftboated" successfully for a reason. Because it was true. He lied about going into Cambodia. His Purple Heart was self-inflicted. He threw FAKE medals off a bridge. He testified to congress and called his comrades war criminals in the vein of Genghis Khan. I could go on. Kerry should have been brought up on charges of treason. Hussein and Kerry are two of a kind. Crooks and frauds.

      NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: raddave @ 07/04/2008 3:26:24 PM

        It is funny how you will believe the lies about Kerry, but defend McCain against the allegations about him. McCain committed more "treasonous" acts than Kerry did by giving information to the enemy.

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 07/04/2008 3:30:35 PM

          you are one sick little puppy

          NOBAMA!!!

          • Posted By: Lovly2008 @ 07/05/2008 9:37:01 AM

            Money can find the truth, and who has it? SEANTOR OBAMA, thats who! Be careful what you wish for. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

          • Posted By: raddave @ 07/05/2008 2:56:31 AM

            How is the truth sick?

      • Posted By: Lovly2008 @ 07/05/2008 9:35:24 AM

        Hmmm, wouldnt it be funny if McCain ends up getting brought up on charges for giving information to the enemy. Yes I think that would be funny, he could be right up there with his buddy Bush, when he gets impeached.

    • Posted By: Galasso @ 07/04/2008 3:21:43 PM

      I didn't do that to Kerry - I honored his service like all of the young giys who went to Vietnam with me. Personal attacks show the level of experience and intelligence you bring to the discussion.

  • Posted By: djheru @ 07/05/2008 9:28:06 AM

    "Clark was a guest on Sunday's Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer, who was grilling him about Obama's experience to be commander in chief, noting that unlike McCain, Obama has not "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down." Mistake Number One: Clark repeated Schieffer's words, saying, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." That's a fair point but only if McCain were claiming it as a credential." - Isn't there an IQ requirement for being a pundit nowadays? McCain wasn't claiming it was a "credential", SCHIEFFER WAS!

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