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  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/11/2008 4:31:04 PM

    What Gramm calls whining is genuine protest, well grounded. He can't recognize it for what it is because it discredits his many years of setting things up that led to the economic failures that led to the protest. Makes him look like a daddy who chides his children for whining because he hasn't provided them a bite to eat for two weeks, having eaten their groceries himself.

    • Posted By: SPORTLOCK09 @ 07/11/2008 4:52:28 PM

      Nah,
      Dont try to twist it up. Its whining...

  • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 07/11/2008 2:42:42 PM

    Gramm is an old fart with terrible skills in expressing himself -naturally, he comes from Texas. I was surprised McCaint even bothered to hook up with him in the first place so publicly. The duo is obvoiously rather lack-luster for our economic outlook, and I doubt that anything Gramm could bring to the table would be very cutting edge, savvy or pragmatic.

    The irony in all this is that the Republicans are generally acknowledged as the ones to "balance the budget" and create economic prosperity. That is why so many misguided Consrvative voters supported Bush Jr. in 2000, even though ALL EVIDENCE showed Clinton had done brilliantly with the economic torch.

    The Republicans are BAD FOR THE ECONOMY. Supply side economics obviously are not the great idea they purport to be on paper. The thinking creates inequities, or the perception of them and somehow mars the whole national psyche - eroding any eonomic opportunity rather than creating it for the masses of people.

    So if you want to continue on the same poor path, go ahead, vote for McCain't. But obviously, the GOP has some major rethinking to do - my adivce is to get some new economic thought leaders who aren't all about supply-side and trickle down - the old Reagan-Thatcherite days... Get some new political and economic blood and get beyond thinking that Daddy Bush and Uncle Ronnie Reagan and little Bushy-Tail Jr. are the antidote. They're the symptoms and the flagrant illness.

    Get over yourselves, Greedy Oil Pretenders.

    • Posted By: ara9557 @ 07/11/2008 4:11:03 PM

      Now, I believe that Presidents get more credit or bad credit regarding the economy. If you can explain what influence that a president has other budget balancing which has no effect whatsoever on public companies. Now, remember my freind, it is the Congress that makes law and approves what money will be spent. If I am not mistaken, the Repubilcans were running the show during Clinton's time. Now, I am check and balance kind of guy... I don't trust either party and like the idea that the president be the opposite of the party running Congress. Just my opinion.

  • Posted By: bikechick67 @ 07/11/2008 4:08:24 PM

    Let me shed some light on the Gramm issue. Those who are offended by his comments are indeed WHINING! Thus they are the whiners he is refering to. We as a nation need to stop being soooo sensitive about words. We would all be better off if we said to ourselves "is this really something I need to be upset about?". Try it for a month and I guarantee you'll all feel better about the world around you and STOP WHINING!

  • Posted By: OldUncleTom @ 07/11/2008 4:05:57 PM

    Interesting words from one who might turn up as McCain's Treasury Secretary...
    4 years of "stop whining and bend over" does not sound like a future I want.

  • Posted By: lvdragonlady @ 07/11/2008 4:04:00 PM

    Well, if this -> two straight quarters of negative growth is considered a recession, then just maybe we need to redefine recession. The current equation does not even include the cost of food or gas, so how is the hell can it be an accurate measure of what a recession is??

  • Posted By: SharonAustinTX @ 07/11/2008 4:02:12 PM

    Correct lonk for Gramm's thinking on poor people (history)

    http://www.famoustexans.com/philgramm.htm

  • Posted By: SharonAustinTX @ 07/11/2008 3:58:47 PM

    This isn't the first time Gramm has shown his true colors. Here's what he thinks of poor people.

    http://www.famoustexans.com/philgramm.htm

  • Posted By: SharonAustinTX @ 07/11/2008 3:56:28 PM

    This isn't the first time Gramm showed his true colors. Here's what he thinks of poor people:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-donnelly/400-million-for-mccain-iw_b_112169.html

  • Posted By: ara9557 @ 07/11/2008 3:43:04 PM

    Now, I wish the media would let Mr Gramm explain himself and why he made the statement. I personally, believe that we have become a country of whiners and tend to agree with Mr. Gramm. The worst thing that you can do in politics is to tell the truth. Will it hurt John McCain? It will be back page news when the election nears, but Mr. Gramm sorry to say will pay the price for his honesty. I am optimistic about America and the economic crisis will pass. The media is just playing the part of chicken little.... The Sky is falling!

  • Posted By: repub4obama @ 07/11/2008 3:23:09 PM

    Yeah nice pick for your economic adivisor McCain, just tell everyone to stop whinning, brilliant plan.

  • Posted By: All4America @ 07/11/2008 12:42:54 PM

    Mr. Fineman, you are making too much ado about nothing. McCain immediately expressed his strong disapproval of Phil Gramm's comments indicating "He does not speak for me." End of story.

    The manner in which the MSM, including you Mr. Fineman, jump to shore up and defend Obama's candidacy for President is unprecedented in American Politics. There is an obvious bias to maximize anything that may hurt McCain and minimize whatever may hurt Obama (Jackson sounding like "Plato"? Are you kidding me?!)

    What is it with you MSM guys?! Will you ever get back to do some informative reporting rather than writing pieces that look like they came straight out of Obama's campaign headquarters?!

    • Posted By: farrdoo @ 07/11/2008 3:15:10 PM

      Um, the Plato thing was a joke. See, the point is that what Gramm said was so dumb it made what Jackson said sound like Plato IN COMPARISON. He wasn't trying to say that Jesse Jackson ACTUALLY sounded like Plato. It's called hyperbole. Exaggeration? Get it? A joke? Oh -- never mind.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/11/2008 3:03:45 PM

    What Gramm said has been said before. It's been so long ago that we simply forgot. "Let them eat cake" (and then they'll quit whining?).

  • Posted By: aeroplane @ 07/11/2008 2:08:01 PM

    Gramm 08!

    Telling the truth, as evidenced here. Quit your useless, Democrat whining. Mc Cain should have supported him. Democrats are upset at their own personal failures, like your father in law (he obviously made bad decisions to be where he is at 62)- so really want to believe there's a Recession when the Facts say there isn't one. Just the Media says there is one. Gramm says something obviously true and it's a "scandal". Look at yourselves.

    • Posted By: kle5507 @ 07/11/2008 2:35:15 PM

      Hey Aeroplane,

      You got gas for in that tank? BTW, my father in law owns his own home, put three kids through college. At one time worked two jobs to make it all worked. He played by the rules. What personal failings? What have you done? How many kids have you put through college? Do you have a college degree?

      You may be better off than the rest of us, surely, filling up that gas hog of an SUV of yours must hurt now that are paying $100 per tank vs. $37.50/tank Pre-Bush. Obviously, you are a religious man. Hope you'll have a prayer to get the rest of us through this mess.

  • Posted By: StephenTM @ 07/11/2008 2:26:07 PM

    Phil Gramm is the "mother of all supply siders". He and his ilk are tMcCains biggest dilemna.
    As long as they hold sway, McCain will be forced to defend the fiscally irresponsible Bush tax cuts
    He will have to carry this albatross to his doom in November.
    Pity, he once was on the right side of this issue.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/11/2008 2:18:13 PM

    Once we give all of our money to those who sell petroleum, we can forget them, as they will forget us and sell it to some place where there is money left to buy it. Money has ceased to exist in this country a long time back, anyway. I first caught onto this when I tried to rent a car back in 1974 with cash dollars. The rental company said that they only rented to those with credit cards. Money was no good any more. I notice where this trend recently peaked in our mortgage industry. I managed to survive without a credit card for thirty more years and finally got one because insurance companies and utility companies threatened to hike their rates to those with bad credit. Not having used credit for some forty years before that, I found that without any credit rating at all, I was a bad credit risk. The disadvantage, mind you, was solvency to the extent that credit was not necessary. That's when I realized that we no longer have money in this country. It's an economic condition that I am having difficulty naming. It's not just credit, but some condition of mind that exists with purchasing power but without money. Ask a person who was induced to take out a home mortgage and recently discovered that there was no way to pay for it. It's madness, and it has thrived under the present eight year old administration, finally apparently self-destructing before the eyes of the whole world. I will name my horse Old Ned, and the mules Jimmy and Jenny. Money's no good any more. I'll just bury it in the back yard in a mayonnaise jar and barter the rest of the way. Trade you some potatoes for a Thanksgiving Turkey?

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/11/2008 2:03:46 PM

    Fast Eddie, you're right. And I look forward to the hardships ahead. I will buy one of those surplus mustang horses from out west and get the equipment to ride him. That will cause me to think carefully about how far to ride and how to get everything I need in one trip. Next, I'll get me a donkey and then a mare from the mustang herd and allow them to breed. The mare will then produce a hybrid animal called a mule. When she produces two of them, by then I will have finished the wagon that they will pull. I will build the wagon so that it can serve both to haul my spouse and me to wherever we need to go to buy the month's supplies and be sufficiently strong to carry a medium heavy load, but light enough to cover with canvas so that we can take trips to wherever we wish to go. We will carry equipment enough to sleep overnight on the way and cook small meals to tide us over until we get back. We will slow down to the pace of our draft animals and never be in a hurry to get anywhere. Hypertension and a number of illnesses that are generated and aggravated by the hectic pace we've been living will fade into the past. We will go to the poultry house and get a box of chicks and get them up big enough to survive in the yard and then will have eggs and as they reproduce, we can eat the surplus fryers for Sunday dinner, and when the hens get too old to lay, make good chicken soup stock by boiling them for a few hours. Surplus roosters, as well. A vegetable garden will be maintained year round. Winter for leaf and root vegetables and Spring and Summer for the rest, canning and drying surplus to carry us through the fallow periods.
    There's more, but you get the idea. Gramm is full of crap about us whining. We've been overdue to return to a better way of life for a long time and this is our chance. All of this grandeur and excess was just a waste of good life and we didn't know what we were missing.

  • Posted By: kle5507 @ 07/11/2008 1:57:54 PM

    Perhaps Dr. Phil would like to talk to my father-in-law. He's 62 yrs. old and still working. His after tax take home pay is $1560 per month. He's spending $600 per month on gas to get to and from work. The rest of his monthly income goes to paying down the home mortgage, insurance & food. His wife is also 62 yrs old and still working. Needless to say, retirement is only a dream for the both of them. When is America going to wake up? The Republican tax cut policy does not benefits the 98% of the middle class. Still they scare you into voting for them because of terrorism, gay marriages and taxes. The very definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again while expecting for a different result. When G.Bush took office in 2001, gas price is at 1.50 per gallon. Now, it's $4.25/gallon for regular unleaded. Had enough? Still voting for Mccain this election? Maybe we should all find religion b'ce with another 4 years of Bush-McCain administration, praying will be our only way out of this mess.

  • Posted By: Fast Eddie @ 07/11/2008 1:46:37 PM

    No you're not in recession, you're in stagflation. That's a stagnant economy with ever-rising inflation. Oil is rising primarily for two reasons - one is the speculators, which were facilitated by Gramm's Enron loophole. The other is the vast increase in demand from China and India.

    You can close the Enron loophole, but oil prices will still remain high because of the demand from two huge economies growing like wildfire. The rapidly expanding middle classes in Chain and India will also keep the prices of grains, rice and many other staples on an upward curve.

    America meanwhile is losing jobs at an unprecedented rate. It's been running a deficit for many years now, underwritten by the petrodollar. The petrodollar basically acts as the world's largest credit facility and has enabled the US to live far beyond its means for decades. This year, Iran dumped the dollar as a trading currency for oil and it's likely Russia and others will follow suit next year. That particular trillion dollar credit facility is closing.

    Bottom line? With no growth, no money for infrastructure and rising prices, American standards of living are on the way down. Add onto this the current administration is selling the family silver to China in order to finance wars it can't afford. The time is coming shortly when the Chinese loans are due to be repaid, the petrodollar is largely dismantled and America will have to live within its means.

    People talk as if Gramm is 'daring' to speak the truth. He wasn???t. He took the coward???s way out by parroting right-wing cliches about whiners and wasters. He daren???t tell the real truth, because that would involve looking the American people straight in the eye and telling them that they have to halve the military, raise taxes and balance the books. Doesn???t play half as well to his bellicose base, now does it?

    If he were a real conservative - a fiscal conservative - he'd tell the real truth. That America is spending money it doesn't have. That it can't afford to be the world's policeman. That 59 cents in every tax dollar goes towards military and defense (the UK by comparison spends 14% of tax income on defense) and money needs to be spent on things like education or in the long-term America???s going to fall behind and become a second world economy. But that would require real cajones, of the type Gramm simply doesn't possess.

    Oh hang on. Ron Paul told all the Republican voters this already and they didn???t like it. Instead they voted for a man who can???t even pronounce his own economic plan, the Dyslexicington Project. My bad.

  • Posted By: Fast Eddie @ 07/11/2008 1:46:25 PM

    No you're not in recession, you're in stagflation. That's a stagnant economy with ever-rising inflation. Oil is rising primarily for two reasons - one is the speculators, which were facilitated by Gramm's Enron loophole. The other is the vast increase in demand from China and India.

    You can close the Enron loophole, but oil prices will still remain high because of the demand from two huge economies growing like wildfire. The rapidly expanding middle classes in Chain and India will also keep the prices of grains, rice and many other staples on an upward curve.

    America meanwhile is losing jobs at an unprecedented rate. It's been running a deficit for many years now, underwritten by the petrodollar. The petrodollar basically acts as the world's largest credit facility and has enabled the US to live far beyond its means for decades. This year, Iran dumped the dollar as a trading currency for oil and it's likely Russia and others will follow suit next year. That particular trillion dollar credit facility is closing.

    Bottom line? With no growth, no money for infrastructure and rising prices, American standards of living are on the way down. Add onto this the current administration is selling the family silver to China in order to finance wars it can't afford. The time is coming shortly when the Chinese loans are due to be repaid, the petrodollar is largely dismantled and America will have to live within its means.

    People talk as if Gramm is 'daring' to speak the truth. He wasn???t. He took the coward???s way out by parroting right-wing cliches about whiners and wasters. He daren???t tell the real truth, because that would involve looking the American people straight in the eye and telling them that they have to halve the military, raise taxes and balance the books. Doesn???t play half as well to his bellicose base, now does it?

    If he were a real conservative - a fiscal conservative - he'd tell the real truth. That America is spending money it doesn't have. That it can't afford to be the world's policeman. That 59 cents in every tax dollar goes towards military and defense (the UK by comparison spends 14% of tax income on defense) and money needs to be spent on things like education or in the long-term America???s going to fall behind and become a second world economy. But that would require real cajones, of the type Gramm simply doesn't possess.

    Oh hang on. Ron Paul told all the Republican voters this already and they didn???t like it. Instead they voted for a man who can???t even pronounce his own economic plan, the Dyslexicington Project. My bad.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/11/2008 1:46:12 PM

    To some, it's just another wall to write on.

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