Why go backwards? Why keep the wound open? Has it not festered enough? Why promote the cancer to keep growing? BO is proof, living and breathing proof, that slavery will not and could not occur again. BO is proof of the freedoms in America. It is time to let go and move on.What whites did to the native American is the biggest travesty of all time.
HISTORY
Slavery’s Last Chapter
Long after the Civil War's final shots were fired, hundreds of thousands of African-Americans were held captive and forced to work hard labor without compensation. A new book tells their stories.
Jul 14, 2008 | Updated: 10:29 a.m. ET Jul 14, 2008
Member Comments
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Posted By: midniteangel @ 07/19/2008 11:50:09 PM
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Posted By: getzel @ 07/17/2008 4:32:40 PM
COMPLETE FICTION
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 1:47:42 PM
COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!
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Posted By: doublieve @ 07/17/2008 2:40:17 PM
From the comments written by some that Blacks should be grateful for the treatment that our great country has done to them shows just how far we still have to go. These are racist to their bones and if they could they would reinstitute the ways of the 20th century. We have championed the rights of Jewish decendants to receive reparations for the way Germans treated them and stil call for those injustices to be remedied today but when it comes to Black americans all we get is derision from the mainstream. also we hear 'we are not responsible for the actions of our fathers, granfathers, etc." like that also absolve them of their own actions today. Although many admendments to the constitution has been passed in some areas of our great country you would not kow this. That's why we still have a prison system based on locking up as many people as possible (mostly minorities) and continue to build communities around that 'career'. It's time for our great country to stand up for all the ills we've done to our own people, not only Blacks but Native Americans, and our ills we continue to do the world. We cannot export our form of democracy until we make this great experiment true in all of its forms.
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Posted By: geminimom @ 07/17/2008 10:57:58 AM
To continue ... Not all blacks, but many, want to blame their own lack of responsibility for their actions on someone or something else. Slavery ... get over it. Blacks are not the only race or culture to suffer slavery. And my answer for those still blaming the past ... go back to Africa. See if your fortunes are any different there. I think you'll find much more slavery and suffering in Africa than you ever have in the U.S. Accept responsibility for what you do.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 2:03:17 PM
I won't tell you where to go, certainly it wouldn't be to the beautiful continent of Africa, I as an African American cannot speak for my race as a whole, certainly I can say that I don't believe that every black person, or even "many" as you stated want to blame anyone for their circumstances, talk about not accepting responsibility, "Slavery...get over it". -
I don't gloat on the fact that what happened in this country to blacks was clearly cruel and despicable, however, I don't deny that it happened either, especially when we live in a society that still reeks of injustices.
Instead, I teach my children that there are good and bad in all people, and that in life they are going to come across *^%11#?@ like yourself, education always overcomes ignorance and stereotypes. -
Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/17/2008 11:21:03 AM
Absolutely. Blacks in Africa have it a sight worse than they do in America! I'm sure blacks in Africa would give their left arm to live in America and have the 'problems' that blacks here have...government subsidized housing, education, and food. They're living on a few cups of rice a day and no medical care of there, at best! And that's if they live past 15, after dodging AIDs, Ebola, and war lords!
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 2:09:08 PM
Simply stated, Your ignorant , when I read things like this it clearly makes me angry, I'm actually proud of the steps I've taken to be better than you and your foolish insensitive racial comments, A great man (Martin Luther King ) once said, "Let no man pull you low enough to hate him".
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Posted By: geminimom @ 07/17/2008 10:55:21 AM
I live in a small, rural Appalachian town in Virginia. We haven't had the racial turmoil that other areas have had which leads me to believe the squeaky wheel theory. Those loud-mouths who want to blame others for their troubles get attention. True, there are many instances of abuse. But not all are against blacks. Poor and underprivileged whites have problems, too. Who champions their cause? It seems to me that blacks always want
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Posted By: fitz3d @ 07/16/2008 3:07:30 PM
It's amazing how people get so angry when race is brought up, true or not, they hate to face it. They never want to make a connection, they never want to connect the dots. To them,the only time it's relavent, to compare history to current events, is when it has to do with honorable men, such as; Columbus, washington, Reagan...just to name a few.
Obama has been pointing out, and speaking against policies that have negatively effects on the black and brown communitie. If you; search, look, and listen, you will find all the information you need. What I find frustrating is the following, when people say:Barack Obama does have it right. I truly believe he understands that until the African-American community begins to focus on education, they will retain their position in society.
Thats not what he's saying at all, what he is saying is; African-Americans have to rise DISPITE being under white power. He has been saying this speech before he even ran for senate, for gods sake. Only after jealouse Jesse sais: "Barack is talking down to black people" does everyone compare Obama's father day speech,to Cosbies biased, prejudice rants. Americans suffer from a serious case of; SELECTIVE FOCUS!!-
Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/17/2008 11:22:46 AM
I can not for the life of me understand why some people took offense to Obama's comments. He said that blacks are not all gonna be the next Lil Wayne or sports great, and they need to focus on their education to make good lives for themselves. This is all true--not only for blacks, but all races. He said they need to be responsible fathers--again, true for ALL. His comments were all true.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 2:15:09 PM
Most likely, the people who took offense to what Obama said, were the people who identified with the shortcomings, I won't name names.
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Posted By: nonpolitico @ 07/16/2008 10:35:24 AM
All of this discussion about blame, restitution, and the realities of social inequality amazes me. First, to the person who commented about the lowest incarceration rates being in Africa, (I'm assuming they mean Sub-Saharan Africa) virtually none of these countries has "rule-of-law". They are some of the poorest, most un-educated nations in the world. They are, in many cases, still basically tribal. If I follow that individual's implication then African-Americans should have a different standard for incarceration. The truth is the disparity in race in our prison system is created by problems with substance abuse and it's associated violence. That is a by-product of the socio-economic status of most blacks in America. That is a by-product of educational levels in black America. That is not a by-product of the school systems, but a sociological issue. Barack Obama does have it right. I truly believe he understands that until the African-American community begins to focus on education, they will retain their position in society. Why doesn't a prominent hip-hop artist discuss this in their material? Rhetorical. It doesn't sell the easy thing. In America, we blame first. Analyze second. No doubt, there is plenty of blame to go around. There just isn't enough truly honest dialog. To the person who says whites need to pay for their sins... Wow, my family were indentured servants, of scotch-irish decent. They came through Virginia into Kentucky and then in to Indiana. None of them ever owned a slave. One of them was part of the active political movement to have slavery made illegal in Indiana, which was finally legislated in the state in 1820. I really can't imagine what this individual wants. At present rates black america will never pass whites as a racial subset. It's statistically impossible. More likely we'll end up with largest subset of the population being of mixed race. A social probability. Malcolm-X, who is frankly one of my heroes, said this, "Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time." That, to everyone reading this, is the ultimate truth. You cannot hide from this with anger, or any other destructive emotion. For all of us, stop blaming; start doing.
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Posted By: jath123 @ 07/16/2008 7:34:37 AM
Hey becky.alley, don't make me laugh. 1.) Even if white people become a minority, they will still be by far the largest minority in a nation with no clear majority. 2.) The other major ethnic groups (Latinos, Asians, etc.) value the present value of hard work over the axe grinding of what happened generations ago. You will find no allies in them. 3.) Many white Americans are descended from poor Eastern European peasants who arrived in America less than a century ago and never ever had anything to do with slavery. They 'owe' black Americans nothing more than the same respect owed to all fellow countrymen. 4.) Your comments prove that you are an uneducated disgusting racist. 5.) Obama, who is half white, was raised by his white mother and white grandparents. If you think he is going to 'stick it to whitey' you are a fool. He is far smarter and classier than you will ever be.
It's ancient history, and nobody responsible for slavery or neoslavery is even alive anymore. Nobody owes you ANYTHING, sweetie. Your life is what you make of it. Maybe it's time you started looking in the mirror for the source of your failures.-
Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 2:51:11 PM
No offense, but you too sound like a racist, you don't go tit for tat wifh ignorance, amongst the ethnic groups who also value hard work also African Americans, this person cannot possibly speak for all African Americans, please don't assume so.
You should have stated that America owes nothing to the individual, don't classify all people as being the same or having the same interests, you speak so highly of senator Obama, but you lack his message....
CHANGE.
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Posted By: distantsmoke @ 07/16/2008 4:28:01 AM
I find it interesting that African Americans prefer to continue to fight against the slavery of 200 years ago, instead of addressing the slavery that is going on within the Afican Continent today. American Missionaries are buying the freedom of black Africans who were sold into slavery (usually to Arabs) by other Africans in Modern day African Nations.
But there is no National Dialogue about that. It's much more comfortable for today's African Americans to sit in the comfort of there American homes and complain about the treatment of their ancestors, than to speak up about ongoing, vicious slavery of Africans today.
I wrote to the Black Congressional Caucus asking why this wasn't an issue for them, and got no answer. Apparently, Africans selling Africans is only an issue when it's a White person who does the buying.-
Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 3:02:09 PM
I understand your point, what I don't understand is your sincerity, do you actually care about the injustices, or do you highlight your point to belittle, or attempt to belittle a race?
An injustice here in America is an injustice anywhere, what , if anything have you done as an individual to right the wrongs, or do you just sit in the comfort of your home in a sad attempt to create chaos?
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Posted By: becky.alley @ 07/15/2008 10:46:01 PM
Whites need to be held accountable for their past wrongs. The tide is finally turingin in this nation so they will be held accountable. Our time is coming. If not with Obama then in the near future when whites are a minority and they get what they have given.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/18/2008 3:06:19 PM
You know, you really sound stupid! You cannot attempt to cast all whites in the same category, are you aware of the many whites who lost their lives during the civil rights movement?
All people are not the same, there are good and bad in all people, -
Posted By: realpages @ 07/16/2008 1:02:26 PM
You are a poor broken soul. Get help.
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Posted By: becky.alley @ 07/15/2008 10:44:47 PM
Whites need to pay for their sins. I hope Obama stays true to his word and holds white America responsible for the sins of its past.
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Posted By: josephjsalas @ 07/15/2008 7:30:15 PM
Many American citizens were born into debt "today".
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Posted By: va-native @ 07/15/2008 7:08:32 PM
my son worked for Newport News, VA city farm for a year. he finished cement, drove the "termite" and dug trenches, cleaned grounds, put up tents. all free. some cities rent out inmates to Colonial Williamsburg to cook. this is free labor. what would cities do without black or brown grease to oil the machines.
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Posted By: Gimli's Girl @ 07/15/2008 6:00:32 PM
Forced labor takes many forms and occurs to many nationalities. I agree with dark.energy 363 that it is a class or group issue. Those with power often abuse those with little or no power. My (caucasion) grandparents were sharecropppers in Alabama who were barely able to feed their families. Putting shoes on their feet was a luxury. Their children realized the only way out was education. My parents and their siblings either took menial trade jobs or entered the military to escape the poverty. Of the 28 grandchildren of both my grandparents, 24 have at least a 4 year college degree. We live in a country that is not perfect, but does offer a way out of poverty. There are numerous grants that are now available. I only wish they had been available to my grandparents generation, all the people of their generation!
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Posted By: dark.energy363 @ 07/15/2008 3:31:43 PM
We as Blacks need to recognize some things that have contributed to preventing us as a diaspora from achieving greater heights. First slaves have been made of many groups. It has and always wll be a class thing. That class with more power will seek to exploit those with lesser power. It still happens today. For gods sake the Native Americans had slaves. No one is beyond reproach. Next there are many forms of institutionalized stratification. You have the educational system whereby prices are inflated to prevent more of the masses fro acheiving independence. You have worker pay deparities where certain groups are paid differently according to race or gender. And you have organized religion where these same injustices are sanctioned by god. How many slave owners went to church every Sunday where he could read for himself where slavery was ok with god. If god is for it who can be against it. The battle for must be fought on may levels.
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Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/15/2008 4:34:00 PM
..............REFRESHING!
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Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/15/2008 12:14:08 PM
ENLIGHTENING!.....................THERE SHOULD BE REPARATIONS IF THE TRUE BENIFACTORS FROM "FORCED LABOR" CAN BE ISOLATED AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE................CRIMINAL!
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Posted By: Jack Prentiss @ 07/15/2008 2:32:06 AM
Constituion,
You're completely ignoring that Africa is also the continent with BY FAR the highest violent crime rate, so maybe their low incarcaration rate isn't such a good thing. -
Posted By: techresmgt @ 07/14/2008 6:51:50 PM
They are not 'our chickens' you dolt. Don't blame the average Caucasian living in today''s world for something that happened BEFORE MOST OF US WERE BORN. Grow up, and read my first sentence AGAIN. Maybe, just maybe, you'll 'get it'. But I doubt it.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 8:54:10 AM
I don't blame "the average Caucasian" as you put it, As an African American I don' t use the injustice of slavery as a disabler, I'm only speaking from my point of view and cannot speak for all African Americans,
I believe what angers me most is when I come across people, such as yourself who have the attitude of
"It happened, Get over it"
Not understanding that this careless attitude is sometimes hurtful, In order for history to not repeat itself the story should be told.
People often like to speak of the accomplishments of the U.S. rightfully so, but to avoid a segment of U.S.
history whether bleak or not, also deserves mentioning, to ensure that we never revisit that section again.
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Posted By: vestill @ 07/14/2008 6:02:09 PM
I was born in the South and proud of it. My family on my Father's side came from Europe in the 1730's. My Mother's side came over in the 1840's. When I graduated High school in 1974 I moved to Maaschusetts. I took the first job that cames along working in a sweat shop with illegal immigrants who were mostly from Portugal. I can tell you from first hand experience that in 1974 in a Northern State in the United Sates that forced Labor was alive and well and from what I hear it still is.
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Posted By: radicalmoderate @ 07/14/2008 5:10:32 PM
There are a few good museums in the South covering such abuses, including the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham. The author misses anotehr critical consquence. Companies like US Steel used the availability of forced free black labor to surpress unionization and poor white worker pay and working conditions as well. Such labor contracts with prisons were HUGE political plums and created imense corruptions and graft as well.
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Posted By: ma45johnson @ 07/14/2008 4:39:08 PM
Interesting Nonpolitico. From reading the article, I got the impression that the number of blacks victimized by neoslavery was far less than the numbers you mention. And although I think reparations to individuals is a crazy notion, I cringe when I hear people say that compensation for 400 yrs of slavery has already been provided in the form of affirmative action, welfare programs, etc. Let's be honest. Welfare, government housing subsidies never raised anyone out of poverty. Since their inception those types of programs were designed to pacify minorities into not demanding full equality in education and the work place. Racist practicies institutionalized in federal laws and corporate policies following the Civil War conditioned too many blacks in this country against any attempts at lifting themselves out of the poverty stricken ghettos in which they were concentrated during that period of time between the Civil War and World War II. Unfortunately there are all too many blacks still locked in that same mindset. Investment in inner city neighborhoods and schools by the federal goverment and private corporations would go much further in repairing the ills inflicted on blacks and other financially impoverished segments of our society than reparations would ever achieve.
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Posted By: realpages @ 07/16/2008 2:04:54 PM
'Investment in inner city neighborhoods' - What does this mean?
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 9:28:11 AM
It means that if you address the issues in the inner city neighborhoods (Better education systems, programs to deter crimes, Drug prevention, elimination or control of the mini markets often run by Arabs who facilitate the very drugs that police officers are trying to take off of the streets) Investment in these ills will eliminate the need for building larger prison systems, it will also drastically reduce crimes.
I know that I will probably get some slack for mentioning the corner stores often run by Arabs in the inner cities, I don't hate or discriminate against any race, I hate what they sell to the community, and yes the community must always take responsibility for itself, however, when these stores are allowed to sell "Blunts" (a cigar cut open to insert marijuana) to minors, or crack pipes, & even Brillo pads which addicts use to smoke crack , and when I say Brillo pads, I mean these store owners sell them individually.
How does this happen, how when you report these violations to the officers are you told, we are aware of what their doing but we want to catch them with something bigger.
Investment in inner city neighborhoods means sweeping the bad apples out, preparing the children for better rather than a life of crime and mediocrity
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/15/2008 9:27:36 AM
Exactly. The social structure needs a complete rehaul if we really want change to happen.
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Posted By: Plantdigger @ 07/14/2008 5:00:13 PM
I applaud your reasoning. Money paid directly to individuals is not the answer. Though I'm sure some think a fat wallet would ease their ills. It would be simply a pacifier to the bigger problems that need to be dealt with.
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Posted By: hsineexas @ 07/14/2008 4:46:55 PM
It's nice to read an educated post every now and then. Thank you.
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Posted By: ndrock @ 07/14/2008 4:34:37 PM
How appropriate that Newsweek is again is showing it's outright support of Obama. Always about the black man and his struggles in this country. What about the Native Americans? How about the Chinese, Japanese, or any other races. ALWAYS about the black man!! Who is Newsweek voting for, GEE-GOLLY, I wonder who? Could it be OBAMA. Newsweek is using it's Hollywood rag to get all the sympathy and support for Obama can. What a waste of what once a decent a news mag.
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Posted By: Yuseff @ 07/14/2008 4:45:05 PM
How in the heck did you perceive this to be a pro-Obama article? Barack Obama is not even a descendant of slaves. His father was a Kenyan student?
I bet Newsweek could run an article comparing the taste of Coca-Cola to Pepsi and some of you people would still find some link to Obama. -
Posted By: hsineexas @ 07/14/2008 4:42:33 PM
Yeah, what a shame. Too bad they wasted so much paper and effort on something as ridiculous as a civil rights article. People like you are part of the continuing problem. If we could only get rid of everyone with your level of ignorance, we would no longer have to have these discussions. I really wish you were smart enough to understand that YOU are the problem, not Newsweek. We could finally be able to live in collective peace as a nation if it weren'r for the likes of you.
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Posted By: stewfoss @ 07/14/2008 4:21:33 PM
I'd be willing to bet this pratice didn't end as early as WWII. It most probably continued throught the south until each and every hamlet was personally delivered the message by writ or decree.
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Posted By: stewfoss @ 07/14/2008 4:18:33 PM
I wonder if it truly ended as early as WWII. I'd be willing to bet it went on as long as it could in each and every little hamlet throughout the south until one by one they got the message.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 4:09:25 PM
THE RAVEN, I left you a comment.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:29:09 PM
Shameful. Why wasn't there a law to let the people go free?
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/14/2008 3:55:14 PM
Because they were convicts???
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Posted By: hsineexas @ 07/14/2008 4:28:23 PM
as the author indicated, they were commonly incarcerated for outrageous or trumped up charges to begin with. Just because they were incarcerated, it doesn't necessarily mean it was by any righteous means.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 5:07:37 PM
My sentiments exactly, thank you.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 4:06:17 PM
If they had not been kidnapped from Africa, chained like animals, and brought to America, they wouldn't have become convicts.
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/15/2008 9:30:58 AM
The people in the 40s were brought in chains from Africa? Thanks for enlightening me, I never knew...
When does the blame game stop?
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Posted By: nonpolitico @ 07/14/2008 3:12:49 PM
All of the individual issues relating to treatment of blacks in the south are a despicable part of American history from denial of voters rights to Jim Crow laws. They are indefensible. However something seemed a bit stretched to me when I read this excerpt. The black population of the entire United States was less than 9 million in 1900. That includes the northern states. The article suggests that 10's of millions of American Blacks were trapped in this situation. That seems to be if not a complete fabrication at least a gross exaggeration. Using loose statistics and generous gender and age distribution given the tendency for large families, that would mean 1 in 5 blacks were men of working age, to get to 10's of millions the black population would have needed to turn over about 20 times or be 50 million at any given time which it hasn't reached even today. If we're going to have a fair dialog about any issue related to race then we need to be willing to discuss every aspect and its impact on society. What is the total figure the U. S. Government has spent on social programs directed at minorities, from welfare to public housing projects? What has been the result of these programs. I don't know the answer to these questions but when I hear someone bring up the idea of reparations, it makes me curious. I do believe northern liberals were completely aware of the institutional treatment of blacks in the south. At that point the south still held massive sway in federal government. Money wasn't really thrown at the problem until the great depression, and not specifically at Black America untill the late 50's. In that time what have we spent? How have things really changed? If things haven't changed, why? What really needs to be done to change them? I don't think White America is afraid of this conversation.
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Posted By: cooned @ 07/14/2008 3:10:33 PM
the author conveniently forget to mention that white prisoners were forced to work as well. these days writing a book about injustices against blacks is a golden ticket. We need something to account for the fact that they outshoot, outkill, out-welfare every other race in the US
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 10:08:54 AM
Now that it definately a racist comment, They "outshoot" is that even a word?
Your ignorant, what we really need to account for is the fact that we have so many illiterate,ill informed, racists such as yourself. -
Posted By: Yuseff @ 07/14/2008 4:46:31 PM
Every race except whites of course.
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Posted By: hsineexas @ 07/14/2008 4:31:40 PM
your ignorance is not only apparent by your rant, but also by your disgusting choice of the title, "cooned". what a pig.
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Posted By: cooned @ 07/14/2008 3:08:32 PM
interesting how the group (and its heirs) that got all the benefits from this injustice now wants to say let bygones be bygones. If someone stole your most valuable possessions and caused you to have no income and your children or grandchildren found those possessions years later, I doubt you'd fault them for suing the person to reclaim your family's possessions. Now imagine if that kept happening to your family over and over and over and.... Why don't you have a problem with the ones who enslaved, stayed silent or benefited but have a problem with the victims? You're lucky this neoslavery doesn't really exist today (it exists in other forms believe me) so you can fool yourself in believing you're not a beneficiary.
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if people with black skin are to get "restitution" for the crimes of whites, then I'll be looking for restitution for all of my tax dollars which have gone towards policing black neighborhoods, keeping blacks in jail, and rebuilding cities after black riots, welfare etc.. What is described in this book is not slavery. When someone commits a crime against society they need to be locked up, and they shouldn't be given free room and board by the society they have committed a crime against. I am white and my ancestors came here after slavery was over. To say that blacks today are suffereing because of this is saying that blacks today are worse off than they would be if their ancestors were kept in Africa. If you read the news you will see what is happening in Darfur, South Africa, and Zimbabwe(where blacks are told by govt leaders to steal from white farmers). It is time for blacks to start raising their children and to stop acting like they are owed something by every white to walk the earth.-
Posted By: Yuseff @ 07/14/2008 4:51:05 PM
OK cooned add to my "restitution" the amount I spent on tax dollars policiing your white neighborhood. Parks, playgrounds and schools in white neighborhoods get more tax money anyway. I want mine back. There are far more Whites on welfare than there have ever been Black. I want my cut of taxes refunded back to me for that.
Many countries in Africa are suffering as a legacy of colonialism and European emperialistm. They would have been much much better off if Europeans had never stepped their poison feet on the continent.-
Posted By: USA4life @ 07/14/2008 6:01:21 PM
Hey cooned..dont forget to add to my restituion the amount of money it cost me as a tax payer to provide counseling to all the little white kids and white women that were abused and battered in this country..not to mention the number of white women that lied about being robbed beated or raped by a black man and only to find out years later through DNA that nothing ever happened. Hey how about paying up for all your crooked politicians that turned the other cheek when white cops beat the hell out of someone of another race for being in the "wrong neighborhood" and couldn't find anything else to do with their miserable pathetic lives. You say the every American has benefited from an economically strong country..the irony is that America has long thrived on the backs of the under priviliged for its own gains..now look where we are..people have woke up..wised up..and now its time to pay up! Your chickens are coming home to roost..get comfortable they will be here for a while..umm maybe about 200 years! I love this country!!!
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Posted By: hsineexas @ 07/14/2008 4:34:12 PM
The native people of South Africa are attempting to reclaim what was stolen during apartheid, which was not so recently abolished. As I have commented above, you are an uneducated, ignorant shame of an American.
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Posted By: Plantdigger @ 07/14/2008 4:31:09 PM
I don't see this as a "cut & dried" situation. I am white; I pay restitution. I am black; I get restitution. What about the whites who abhored slavery and fought toward its end? Do they line up with the slave-owners/dealers as the enemy? Does just the U.S. pay reparations? or all countries that benefited from the enslavement of blacks? What about blacks who don't have ancestors who were slaves? Does a monetary payment actually ease or erase the pain of what those enslaved encountered? How about ancestors of those who were enslaved but worked toward and achieved an education, work, and a better life? Do they get a reparation? Afterall, "every American gained a more industrialized, economically strong country by virtue of a society that could compete...." And to reiterate a comment from another poster... "To say that blacks today are suffering because ... is saying that blacks today are worse off than they would be if their ancestors were kept in Africa." We need to look to the future, not the past. Money is a "healer" that is soon spent and forgotten. Even the talk of reparations is devisive. I can't imagine the uproar if they were paid. As I say, I believe we must look to the future. As an American Indian friend commented to me once, "If my grandfather punched your grandfather & knocked out some teeth, do I continue paying your dental bills?" It's simplistic, I know, but does make a point.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 10:21:27 AM
Oh forget the rhetoric, "If my grandfather punched......"
The Jews have received reparations, and in many cases the Native Americans are suing to get their lands back, how simplistic is that? -
Posted By: dark.energy363 @ 07/15/2008 11:30:37 AM
Some of your comments might be true, but Reparations have been paid to some, so it is not a foreign idea. And it seems a bit disingenuious to say all americans gained from slavery. Some obviously gained more than others. Turn the other cheek is so much easier when you are the pucher and NOT the one who was punched.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 10:22:20 AM
Brilliantly stated!!!!
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Posted By: ma45johnson @ 07/14/2008 2:52:12 PM
Although false imprisonment is a large part of the crimes that were committed against black people during the years between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of the World War II it was not the only crime committed. Selling innocent people into hard labor for no pay is still slavery no matter the situation and no matter the color of their skins. If a black person or white person, for that matter, took someone prisoner today and made that person work for no pay, they would be charged with false imprisonment and then the victim would have the ability to sue their illegal wardens for financial remuneration in a civil court. I hear a lot of excuses from white people today about slavery and the total impact of that once very popular institution. Slavery did not end after the Civil War. After the Civial War came jim crow laws, instutionalized racism, murder and oppression. It would be easier to simply admit that as great as this country is, it still has a lot to account for. And those white people who stood by and watched those atrocities happen without doing nothing to stop it are just as guilty as those people who committed them.
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Posted By: bwlib @ 07/14/2008 2:47:53 PM
Tjrobison, you're mistaken if you think that you and your ancestors didn't "benefit" from free and/or forced slavery or neoslavery...every American gained a more industrialized, economically strong country by virtue of a society that could compete worldwide in record time due to its free labor. Unless your family was the only one living on a deserted island, it benefited from US coal, steel, power, etc. The point is that something serious was stolen from a people over hundreds of years and benefited another group of people (and their children over time) over hundreds of years (through the present day). The issue now is not whether this fact is in dispute- it's not- but is there anything this nation can do so that one group doesn't get to steal so much from another without restitution. In no other facet of life or civilized society is such obvious oppression condone so why should it just be ignored here. It's interesting how the group (and its heirs) that got all the benefits from this injustice now wants to say let bygones be bygones. If someone stole your most valuable possessions and caused you to have no income and your children or grandchildren found those possessions years later, I doubt you'd fault them for suing the person to reclaim your family's possessions. Now imagine if that kept happening to your family over and over and over and.... Why don't you have a problem with the ones who enslaved, stayed silent or benefited but have a problem with the victims? You're lucky this neoslavery doesn't really exist today (it exists in other forms believe me) so you can fool yourself in believing you're not a beneficiary.
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Posted By: angelsweb @ 07/14/2008 2:40:27 PM
The convict leasing system affected all the poor -- whites as well as African Americans ... albeit the system may have ended sooner for whites. A member of my family was leased as a convict into coal mines in East Tennessee in the 1890s.
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Posted By: charliecooper @ 07/14/2008 2:33:34 PM
This is a matter of people being falsely convicted of a crime, not 'neo-slavery'. I think any criminal should be required to work, especially to pay back the cost of imprisioning them. Being falsely imprisioned for a crime you did not commit is the problem; a big problem, even today for individuals of all races. If a man is not in prision and working, but still not receiving his paycheck because of creditors and child support payments, is that 'neo-slavery'? Is the fact that others have benefited from the production of those criminals make it 'neo-slavery'? As a country, culture, and/or people change, history will always have a different view. There is still real slavery in Africa today, People. Maybe someone should do something about that. No Black 'leader' in the US is doing anything about it.
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Posted By: THE RAVEN @ 07/14/2008 3:10:48 PM
What can a black leader in America do about slavery in Africa--moron? And why shouldn't a white leader do something--like the most powerful white leader in the world--bush?
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:21:51 PM
Ditto, THE RAVEN.
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Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/14/2008 3:49:15 PM
Are you two the Newsweek post race police?
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 4:08:15 PM
Forgot to add, I will take your comment as a compliment.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:58:25 PM
What do you think?
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Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/14/2008 5:01:24 PM
I'm not trying to insult you, just curious why you don't make your own post explaining to people how you believe on this topic.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 5:12:05 PM
sjbrock80, I know you are not insulting me, like I commented above, I take your comment as a compliment. Also, I agree with THE RAVEN 100%. I did post that, is that not clear?
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/14/2008 2:32:59 PM
"When President Franklin Roosevelt convened his cabinet to discuss retaliation, the main issue was propaganda and the Japanese ability to effectively embarrass America for the treatment of blacks in the South." I really have a hard time believing that, after the atrocious attack on the US and thousands of military and civilian deaths, the main topic of concern was Southern Blacks. I don't think FDR really cared about embarassment at that point, come on.
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Posted By: tjrobison @ 07/14/2008 2:11:59 PM
While all these things that happned to African Americans may be true. I didnt do any of them, my parents didnt, neither did my grand parents or theirs. I see no reason why reparations should even be in the picture. Otherwise we open the doors to "5 generations ago some of my ancestors were enslaved by Napoleon and his troops, I want money, and that will fix all of my woes." That kind of thinking is crap.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 10:40:18 AM
It's not crap, any system that places upon individuals such injustices, that takes away an individuals rights to be human, and carries this behavior on for years and years, do you not believe that there will be a domino effect?
Is is so far fetched to understand that the failings of the black race can be attributed to the wrongs that were bestowed upon them, Now, I am not at all saying that the black race should not be inclined to better themselves as a race, they should absolutely and the ways in which to do so is education.
There are still disparities in health care facilities, education, jobs, communities, etc.
With all that we have accomplished as a society, there is still need for growth, I apologize that your not able to see the world as it is, I can certainly promise you this, I am preparing my children for the world, they know that education breaks the chains of the past, and they are intelligent enough to know that history for many will be twisted and distorted, it is, never the less history! -
Posted By: omar75 @ 07/14/2008 5:22:03 PM
In reply to tjrobison; you or your parents may not have taken part in these atrocities, but you all benefitted from them. I see people finding excuses all the time to downgrade what happened to black people. Yes, I believe they should receive some type of restitution. that is the problem, the playing field has never been even financially between black and white people. White people as a whole still enjoy the benefits of slavery. And black people still have to fight for their rights and prove theirselves to be worthy of respect and equal rights. that is something that you don't have to worry about because you are assumed to be respectable, educated, and a hard worker until you prove yourself unworthy. Also, to Summer; the Jews went through eight years of being starved, slaved, and killed; try going through this for centuries. Imagine the affect it would have on families. trying to find something honorable to keep their families together because all they could give their children as a inheritance is more slavery. And people wonder today what is wrong with black people! I don't believe they realize the affects that this enormous Atrocitie had on them as a whole. It is still going to be a while before they can put these things behind them and have pride in themselves. And by white America downplaying the horror that is their past is not going to help.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:31:24 PM
This is about slaves in America not about any other continent.
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/14/2008 2:34:50 PM
Completely agree with you. I'm a woman--should I be paid because I just gained the same rights in the past 100 years? After blacks, mind you? Hmm, then again, I AM of German descent, so it probably cancels out the woman thing...
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Posted By: THE RAVEN @ 07/14/2008 3:06:56 PM
Your stupid A$$ is trying to compare women's rights to slavery?
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/14/2008 3:54:03 PM
Yes, actually. Women weren't allowed to work or vote, were denied rights to property, were abused and beaten, and were treated like property. We actually didn't get Constitutionally protected equal rights until after blacks were granted them. Also, I'd consider the Holocaust a sight more devastating than slavery, but you don't see Jews looking at everyone for a handout. I'm sick of blacks using slavery as an excuse to get money and not work.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 11:21:36 AM
Summer, you should really educate yourself if you think you can compare woman's rights ( and I am a woman) with that of Slavery, how can you open your mouth and say that woman didn't get rights until after blacks were granted rights, if you'll pick up a history book you will see that often times during slavery (now there were exceptions) the wives of slaveowners were sometimes more brutal than the men, clearly you cannot compare the two, as detrimental as the lack of rights for woman may have been.
As far as the Jews are concerned (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem Psalm 122:6) they received reparations, which I don' consider a handout, but what was rightfully there's, as an African American, I am not looking for a handout, and I also don't use slavery as an excuse to get money and not work, I am employed and have been since the age of 15, I would just like to see the equality that the goverment , and people such as yourself are so sure exists. -
Posted By: Yuseff @ 07/14/2008 4:59:27 PM
Slavery went on for several hundred years. The holocost less than ten. Also the U.S. alone gives Israel over $10 billion a year in aid to help them kill Palestinians (sp?). When anyone talks about cutting or ending this aid it doesnt take two seconds for the holocost to come up on the conversation.
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Posted By: Hungry Bear @ 07/14/2008 4:32:43 PM
You're incorrect in saying that Jewish people did request or receive reparations for the Holocaust. West Germany paid out over 3 billion Marks in the 1950's and 60's to Israel. In the late 1990's Germany, Switzerland and Hungary set up funds to compensate needy Holocaust survivors. Last year Germany and Israel began new discussions about providing further reparations to Holocaust survivors.
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Posted By: Hungry Bear @ 07/14/2008 4:31:53 PM
You're incorrect in saying that Jewish people did request or receive reparations for the Holocaust. West Germany paid out over 3 billion Marks in the 1950's and 60's to Israel. In the late 1990's Germany, Switzerland and Hungary set up funds to compensate needy Holocaust survivors. Last year Germany and Israel began new discussions about providing further reparations to Holocaust survivors.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 4:03:47 PM
This article is not about the Jews nor the Holocaust.
Summer, you are sick of blacks using slavery as an excuse? Tell me, have you ever been kidnapped from your home, your country of birth, then chained like an animal and thrown on a ship like cargo? The blacks don'thave to use slavery as an excuse........it is what it is.-
Posted By: Plantdigger @ 07/14/2008 4:35:21 PM
Have YOU ever been kidnapped from your home (probably by a black person of another tribe or perhaps even your own tribe), chained and thrown into a ship? Perhaps your ancestors were... I have an ancestor who was imprisoned and forced into slave labor... oh, but he was white...
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 5:09:25 PM
I get your point and respect it, but we are discussing black slaves here.
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/15/2008 9:39:31 AM
Yes, we are discussing slaves here. I highly doubt any black alive today was kidnapped from their homes, their country of birth, then thrown on a cargo ship. Show me a black alive today that this actually happened to, and I will concede to your inane points.
I work with and am friends with several blacks--some of my cousins are half black. I am not racist. Many of my black co-workers are highly educated, intelligent, wonderful people that I am blessed to have in my life. These same blacks become enraged when they hear of this crutch, reparations and slavery, that blacks use as excuses for not succeeding.
Now, if you want to talk about the broken social system that promotes a cycle of inner city poverty, poor education, and violence...sure, I'm with you on that. I agree that it needs to be fixed. Slavery, however, is not the issue. When blacks bring up slavery, they automatically cause many people to shut down and not listen. We need to address the combination problems of single moms, drug use, poverty, lack of education, and violence contributing to a neverending cycle. THOSE are real issues.-
Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 11:37:14 AM
My dear friend of so many black friends and relatives, if this were truly the case, then you would know and realize without a doubt that slavery is partially if not directly to blame for the broken social system, poor education (blacks were not allowed to attend schools, and had to learn to read in secret) Violence ( Blacks were burned, beaten, raped, whipped beyond recognition) Inner city poverty (Jim Crow laws, seperate rest rooms, seperate water faucets, seperate communities-they basically lived in shacks) The selling and then seperation of families (thus partially a result ot the black families now)
Now you want to talk about a broken social system, certainly slavery accounts for some of this, and if your black friends and family would be honest with you or even themselves, YOU would see the REAL ISSUES
as they are.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:25:05 PM
Summer's comment is almost like Donna1000's comment comparing Hillary as a victim, to Rosa Parks, after Hillary lost the nomination. Do you remember that comment THE RAVEN?
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Posted By: Cloudosmoke @ 07/14/2008 2:06:26 PM
One generation later and I find myself still asking the question, what if we didn't stand up to the slavemasters, where would we be? We would still be shackled and manacled. Still whipped, raped murdered and cast down as animals. And one last thought, if McCain wins the election, it will be apparent where we stand today concerning race since this election is based on such.
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Posted By: rec19724u @ 07/21/2008 11:38:35 AM
Garbage!!!!!
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Posted By: Plantdigger @ 07/14/2008 4:55:02 PM
Comments such as "if McCain wins the election, it will be apparent where we stand today concerning race..." Throwing in "the race card," using any race, not just blacks (also, for men/women, gay/straight, etc.), immediately nullifies any arguement pro or con of any situation. It can't be argued because whomever isn't on your side, whatever it be, "can't really understand" because they aren't, black, gay, straight, a woman, a man, etc.
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Posted By: Cloudosmoke @ 07/14/2008 6:21:13 PM
I disagree. I have seen the "numbers" not only from broadcasts, polls and geographics, but also from the media reports of "I wouldn't vote for him because of his name, his "religious views", his wife's stance, his flip flop, HRC defeat, and so on and so forth... it's all a mask to say I don't want to vote for a black man. You can sugar coat it all you want but that would be the scenario. To sit back and say that it wouldn't be so would be a naive thought or a denial that racism ever existed. Those that don't believe in such have not viewed the world through the eyes of being black which you obviously are not. The New Yorker has the audacity to display such a racist depiction of Barack Obama is a slap in the face to black people and yet it is defended as satire. But I assume you would not see it that way as I am sure you were curious and read the articles? A safety net has been placed around racism so that if it is brought up, it is a flawed argument. But I say that this election will tear it to shreds.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 07/14/2008 3:26:28 PM
McCain voted against Martin Luther King Day twice, in the 90's.
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Posted By: Jim1348 @ 07/16/2008 7:13:06 PM
I would have voted against Martin Luther King Day also. It is a bad time of year, and he is not a hero to all Americans, just some. But I will probably vote for Obama. If the left uses logic that is as bad as the Neocons have used, there might not be much point in voting at all.
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Posted By: angelsweb @ 07/14/2008 2:44:46 PM
The convict labor system affected all of the poor -- whites as well as African Americans. While I have no problem with convicts being expected to work, this system was no better than the Nazi slave labor camps. Depending on who they were leased to, the convicts may have received little or no food, substandard housing, no medical care, etc., while being expected to work in some of the most dangerous jobs in America. This wasn't right.
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Posted By: beseba @ 07/14/2008 4:29:29 PM
Oddly enough people who were not criminals were working and living in the same conditions at the time and yet were aren't expected to pay them back.
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Discuss