The Plot Against Turkey

Erenkoy secularism is the separation of religion of state and religion, your idea of secularism is the state controlling religion. It seems you are very confused in what you want; you cannot have it both ways. Either you want secularism or not. Claiming that mosques would be run by religious clans suggests not only are you against secularism, but against the rule of law and have no trust for a fully fledged secular democracy. The Gulen movement is a respected movement with schools, foundations, businesses and newspapers around the world. It is not a terrorist or violent organisation that wants to overthrow the secular order of Turkey. Even thinking that it wants to overthrow the secular order of Turkey just goes to show, what a narrow mind you have and have no respect for religion or Islam. You may not like Islam or religion, but claiming that the Gulen movement is violent is a disgrace and a bad reflection on yourself. I also would like you to go and read the previous civil code of Turkey. From 1926 till 2003, men were allowed to rape their wives until this tragic law was removed by the AKP government. It isn't religious organisations that support rape of women but the old civil code. I would suggest in future you get your facts right before you make absurd and bigoted comments on religion and Islam. Freedom of religion and freedom of association is a human right that is Universal including Turkey. If you can't stand freedom of religion or any other Western political values, then I suggest you live in a place like Cuba or North Korea there you will find a society free of religion.

Larry Houle you are struggling with your arguments. The poem cited by Mr. Erdogan is a poem that is in the books of primary and high schools in Turkey approved by the Education Ministry. Mr Erdogan has been a long campaigner of freedom of religion in Turkey which is both a noble cause and not a secret. The argument that people cannot be secular and Muslim is true. Secularism is not an ideology or culture, but a practice to separate state and religion. Islam is a religion not a political ideology. There has never been a super Islamic state in History and never will be. If you are suggesting that Mr Erdogan is trying to set up a super Islamic state of 1.5 billion people with Osama Bin Laden then I might suggest you go and see a psychiatrist. This is both unbelievable and cannot be possibly achieved. The Islamic world is very diverse in cultures, sects, ethnicity, clans, tribes and ideas. Uniting all these groups under one religion is impossible. Claiming that Mr Erdogan is a master of stealth jihad is again a ridiculous comment that doesn't even dignify a response. Large areas of Europe are ghettos of Muslims because of the racist European culture. Why are Muslims living happily in Australia or the USA? In fact the Muslims of USA are middle class? Why have you neglected to research Muslims in these areas or is it more convenient for you to classify Muslims as failures or backward or not accepting of the rule of law. Don't let me interrupt your racism or bigotry you just go ahead. What else would you like to blame Muslims for? The economy? The price of oil? The sub-prime mortgage crisis in the US? How about the foodprices? Anyway, you just go ahead and continue with your bigoted ideas, don't let me interrupt you.

Just like evangelicals of USA, AKP lot in Turkey wants feedom for only themselves. We have heard evangelicals talking about "civili rights" when it comes to infiltrating religion into schools and courts, however, when a state legalizes gay marriage they are the first ones trying to deny others the basic rights they enjoy. Similarly, AKP lot wants the freedom to re-engineer the society with their own version of religion, however, they support the arrests of women when they wear 'loose' clothing and TV censorship (no alcohol on TV programs?).

And just like evangelicals try to label liberals as "ultra left" in the US, the AKP lot tries to label Kemalists as authoritarian. As a Kemalist living in New York, I can assure you that an average Kemalist is very similar to an average liberal New Yorker. Most New Yorkers have reservations about evangelical agenda while most Kemalists are concerned about AKP agenda.

AKP has not changed a bit let alone gave up on Islamist agenda. AKP ahs the same agenda but different language -if yo uare familiar with the National Rifle Association tactics or those of creationists you will
understand what I mean.

That's right that mosques in Turkey are run by the government, which is a practice I do not like as a secular minded person. However, the alternative has been worse. Most mosques would have been run by religious clans. The religious clans are getting more powerful in Turkey and they are by no means transparent. For example, AKP ,as well as the author of this article (Mustafa Akyol), is very clsoe to a fast growing religious clan called Gulen movement. Do we want a clan which thinks creationism is a science and women are to be blamed for rape cases to run our mosques? I do not. Actually, I believe the Turkish democracy will mature when we get rid off these clans (tarikat).

THE 36th CHAPTER: EU DECLARATION DEMANDING REFORM OF ISLAM ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS, GOLDEN RULE AND TEN COMMANDMENTS BEFORE TURKEY CAN JOIN THE EU

AN HISTORCIAL MOMENT

By
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
E-mail: intermedusa@yahoo.com

It was Ronald Reagan who changed the course of history by declaring that the Soviet Union was an evil empire. The EU can change the course of History by demanding that Turkey complete not only the required 35 chapters for membership but a 36th Chapter - REFORMIMG ISLAM - REFORMING THE KORAN.

Mr Erdogan, the current Prime Minister of Turkey cited a poem with the following text, ???The minarets of mosques are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, the mosques our barracks and the faithful our soldiers.

In the 1990s, as mayor of Istanbul, Erdogan expressed his opposition to secularism in no uncertain terms: You cannot be both secular and a Muslim! You will either be a Muslim, or secular!...It is not possible for a person who says ???I am a Muslim??? to go on and say I am secular too. And why is that? Because Allah, the creator of the Muslim, has absolute power and rule!

Saying that Allah has absolute power and rule is a fundamentally political statement. And from its inception Islam has been a political and social system, not a religious faith in the way most Westerners conceive of religion. The establishment of Islamic law as the only legitimate system of government is a goal that Erdogan shares with Osama bin Laden and other jihadists around the world; they only differ regarding the best means to go about this.

While Al-Qaeda and other jihad groups have focused on violent attacks on Western targets, Erdogan has shown himself a master of the stealth jihad: the slow, steady, step-by-step encroachment upon secular societal norms, continuing until Islamic law is fully in place.

Imposing Islam on western society through stealth jihad is already happening in Europe. Large areas of some European cities are no go zones for kafir Europeans including police. In these areas, the laws of the state do not apply - only Sharia law.

The present EU governments and political elites of Europe are cowards willing to accept dhimmitude (submission to Islam) in the desperate hope that Muslims will not attack their societies blowing up subways, buses etc. However the peoples of Austria and possibly France, Netherlands, Germany are not and one (or more) of these countries will veto Turkey joining the EU. But it is not good enough to just say no to Turkey. There must be a well explained rational as to why Turkey cannot be allowed to join. By explaining the barbaric reality of Islam and exposing the danger poised by Islam to the very foundations of EU democracy and freedom and demand that Islam be modernized before Turkey can join will a true moment of history.

Kemalist ideology seems to me like Putinist ideology. Some fake democracy or souvereign democracy which is not for the people just for some elite. Actually this is a war between periphery and the center. Periphery started to conquer the lands of center and people in the center are afraid of it in a paranoia. The thing what happens is that turkey is a strong part of globalisation and most people live in cities and want to live like developped country's nations. Militarism is not a solution in this age. So AKP is the voice of those poeple moving to the center which is the holly area of somebody else. I am kurdish, born in a small eastern town near armenian border even could not talk turkish language till my 7th age when i started the school. But till now i graduated from one of the best universities in country and learned 3 more languages and travelled all around world about 35 countries and the thing i think after all this life experience in my 32 years of life is that secularists or old guards looks like Don Quishot who attacked the windmills. While every modern and developping country is going toward democracy and human rights we can not go back way. It will be too stupid....

This seems to be an orchestrated event by the AK Party government to silence the leading members of the pro-secular movement. The AK Party which has been actively pursuing its anti-secular, religious politics is using its government power to silence the prominent intellectuals, journalists and retired army generals. This reminds me of the Islamist revolution in Iran and how the police state slowly removed and silenced its strong opponents. Unfortunately, this shows that this cancer has spread to all part of the competing powers within the government in Turkey, executive branch (both the prime minister and president are the members of the AK Party), Turkish Army and the legislative branch are all inflicted by this Islamist party that wants to take Turkey backwards. As a citizen, I am watching the recent developments in Turkey with great concern and fear.
In addition, it is absurd to name an organization or an organized coup if there is any, ???Ergenekon??? to suggest extreme nationalist ties, even though some of the journalists and the retired army generals have been known to be pro-secular social democrats. But in today???s fear driven culture and politics, off course, it is a good tactic by the government to name their opponents the second most despised evil in Turkey, extreme nationalism.

yaya

yaya

this article is an absolutely perfect explanation of what is really going on in Turkey, I think he enlightens the world, do not believe AKP is for the sharia or other something, talking about that kind of stuff is actually nonsense, beacuse for the last 5 years they did nothing to prove that allegations. This arguments are just to frighten people against AKP in order to make them believe a military coup is necessary, which is unbelieveble to even thinking a coup in this century.

These are the views of a yellow staunchly fundamentalist, islamofascist journalist in a liberal democratic outfit.

Erdogan and AKP want sheriah law, they have never ceased their desire for an islamic dictatorship (as there can be none other than a dictaorship in a non-laic islamic state), and they have to pay the price for trying to overthrow the democratic, laic Republic of Turkey in a civil coup.

It is as simple as tht.

We shall all soon see what Ergenekon is all about, by the looks of some arrests, it looks like prosecutor of this case has a lot of imagination.