The Truth About Torture

And not a word about the good work that was done in intelligence? Seems like the kangaroo court is already is session.

I think you are saying it's okay to break the law? Lovely. Many that don't break the law are scapegoats and found guilty of a crime they did not do and you want us to find innocent those guilty of great crimes that can cause terrorist acts to be thrown on us.
Maybe you are guilty of a crime you feel was okay to commit so you say this.l

Whenever it appears that serious wrongdoing has been done at the REQUEST of a president, or at the request of others at high levels of the executive branch whose basic message the president BECAME AWARE of some time ago, THEN, it seems to me that the pardoning of such persons by the same president would, serve to set a precedent for future presidents to conveniently ENABLE individuals to do wrong by such a pardon. I think it would be better if, in the NEXT administration (Obama or McCain), Congress would pass a conditional amnesty that says, "Reveal ALL that happened, or remain subject to prosecution."

You're high. The most urgent need is not simply a full accounting of what happened, urgent as that is. The most urgent need by far is to re-establish the rule of law, and to finally end the culture of impunity for crimes committed by the President and his minions that was created with Ford's pardon of Nixon. This country would be a far, far better place if Nixon had died in prison, and it would be a far, far better place of Bush were to die there, too. Unfortunately, the "serious" class that you so ably represent are terrified of that possibility. Too bad. Thanks to you and to your ilk, things will only go from bad to far, far worse.

One important question is being left out here: What about accountability? These people will get off scot-free.

I think Stuart Taylor, Jr is 100% correct.

When we spend all our time in search of the bad guy, trying to figure out who should go to jail, who should be prosecuted. People always automatically go into Self-Protector mode. This causes anyone involved to go behind a veil of silence, protecting them from possible trouble that could result if they were to come clean.

At this point the government has prosecuted only those at the lowest level of the abuse; those acting under orders in an atmosphere encouraging such behavior. Should they have known better? Sure, but then again, so should those prosecuting them.

The problem, as Taylor points out, is a systemic problem that cannot be solved merely by pointing fingers. In fact as those involved fear for their freedom and their careers will band together to protect themselves from harm. Wouldn???t you?

It is our nature, when under attack, to fight for our survival. The problem is that because we live in a world where nothing exists except Self-Protectors, Victims and Rescuers then Taylor must be seen as a Rescuer. Victims don???t like Rescuers who are rescuing the perceived perpetrator.

Is this Rescuing? Rescuing is when you take over, with no respect for the other, and hold them irresponsible for their deeds. This is NOT what Taylor is calling for at all.

Taylor???s premise is that we must examine the problem from inside the system, recognizing that something went wrong in the system and holding each person accountable for their part, but not to ???blame???. Giving everyone involved immunity allows us to step back and look at the whole problem of how this travesty occurred in our supposedly ???free??? American society.

Any other approach leads to more secrecy, more scapegoats, and more travesties.

Practicing compassion means holding people accountable without blaming them for the entire blame. Certainly no one person made the decision to allow the kinds of tortures we have read about since the beginning of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Respecting that each person within the system did what they thought was correct, legal actions at the time; we allow them to speak of how the horrors came to be. We have empathy for how difficult it might have been to have broken from the status quo to protest. In doing this own that what happened should not have happened and take ownership of preventing any further, similar horrors to occur.

Compassion requires allow us to be human beings. It allows us to make mistakes, yet holds us accountable for our behavior. It changes how we perceive everything. www.ohwowthischangeseverything.com/blog

it would be far beyond the jurisdiction of an American President to pardon Bosnian war criminals. This question, like so many "quick polls" posted on the internet makes inaccurate assumptions going in...Beyond those identified in Bosnia, what war crimes have beeb committed that would imply possible pardons?

How a laywer and somebody who is "knowledgeable" about the constitution can espouse that U.S. war criminals should "get a pass" astounds me. Mr. Taylor, if there is any justice - if the United States still stands for anything - the criminals in this administration will get what we have always believed war criminals should get - a fair trial and then, punishment. Only then will our country BEGIN the long journey back to the country we thought we lived in.

You know something Mr. Stuart Taylor Jr., I am not sure where you and people that advocate what's suggested in this article get on and get off at! What planet did you come from, Sir? The entire idea you've proposed is nonsense! The only thing you said that is correct is that people like me would never be satisfied with this logic you've put forth and we want heads to roll because of these crimes against humanity. I don't care if it was a Democratic administration that ran the country when such happened. The point is not political affiliation, here. Cimes and illegal acts according to international law were committed, that's the point, Mr. Taylor Jr.! The point is our government has brutalized hundreds of people, maybe thousands. Many, I bet, were innocent people. We've allowed these thugs to murder people and you're proposing we say, "oh, well... it's over now let's forget it and move on". How do the families of these people move on? The average American citizen has to live by laws and pay dearly if we break them. We could lose our liberty, freedom and maybe even our lives (in the death chamber) for violating the law (certainly, this is possible if murder is our crime). Yet, you say it's probably best for the nation to pardon these thugs because the truth may never be known, otherwise. Where you learned logic from is curious, Sir! The opinions from the Justice Department's OLC (John Yoo et al) were wrong. Many of the most prominent law school scholars in this country have said as much. Or, are you proposing that we "normal" American citizens just ignore those learned professors' critiques? [People that have spent their entire adult lives disecting the law to find its true essense.] What's up, dude. The only thing that will be accomplished by pardoning these criminals is that they will clam up tight as a corpse with lockjaw. During the Nuremberg trials for Nazi war criminals, I seem to remember reading something like this. It is not a defense to say you were just following orders, when your human decency and conscience should have told you that what you were doing was wrong, a criminal act and a crime against humanity. Just one example and I am finished with telling you that you are very strange, Sir. To beat a man, place him in a plastic bag, zip the bag up so he can not breathe properly, beat him some more; then sit on him for an hour or more.... what kind of people are these in our military, CIA and NSA to do such and not think they are committing a crime? Wake up Mr. Taylor Jr., please wake up. It could be your family members that are subjected to this type of nonsense, next. Then what would you say? Is it O.K. as long as it's a foreigner or someone you don't know? Is that the point? If so, you've descended to the level of apes just like these animals that perpetrated theses crimes upon these helpless, incarcerated prisoners of war. Shame on you, Mr. Taylor Jr.!

Newsweek editors are the ultimate joke. Cheney must have subscribed for every office in Haliburton to get this printed. Taylor and Craig are lovers.

I am stunned at Stuart Taylor Jr's ignorant and irresponsible suggestion that Bush offer blanket pardons to members of his administration. Any student of history knows that pardons issued by Presidents Ford and Bush effectively ended the Watergate and Iran-Contra investigations, accomplishing only the protection of the guilty and not yielding any information or any kind of "truth." Issuing pardons simply guarantees that those involved keep their mouths shut. Using that logic, you could close the books on every unsolved murder by offering blanket amnesty if those responsible confessed to their crimes. In reality, he is advocating complete and total anarchy. America has had enough of , corrupt, power-mad bureaucrats never being held accountable for their crimes.

No, you do not get to torture people and get a free pass. What applies to the Nazis, applies to us. That is the Rule of Law.

Remember, over 100 prisoners died in our custody.